View Full Version : Need a cummins mechanic
It's a 2001 5.9 cummins automatic. It's my buddies who only has about 62k miles on it and having intermittent power issues. If he could call and chat with you that would be ideal. If you wouldn't mind chatting with him please send me a PM with your number and I'll have him give you a call and he can explain it.
thanks guys
DangerLee_Industries
08-16-2014, 13:10
Apps hopefully and not the vp44. Have him cycle he key 3 times and leave it in the run position the 3rd time.Codes should pop where his mileage is displayed. He can call me if he wants ill pm you.
Thanks guys, I gave him your numbers. I know he was working on a tractor or something right now but should call today some time.
from what I understood, it usually happens while under load, with ambient air temperature above 60-70. He will be driving along and then the acceleration power will die suddenly, but the rpms hold. He said if he pumps the gas a few times all of a sudden it comes back.
doesnt happen in colder weather. TPS sensor has been replaced and I think a few other sensors. They mentioned the fuel injector pump but it's $4500 and wouldn't guarantee it would fix the problem.
i told him my thought was the waste gate where it cuts power from the turbo. And I believe the waste gates have issues on these motors.
Should have bought a duramax!
Great-Kazoo
08-16-2014, 13:35
Contact redneck122.
Thanks guys, I gave him your numbers. I know he was working on a tractor or something right now but should call today some time.
from what I understood, it usually happens while under load, with ambient air temperature above 60-70. He will be driving along and then the acceleration power will die suddenly, but the rpms hold. He said if he pumps the gas a few times all of a sudden it comes back.
doesnt happen in colder weather. TPS sensor has been replaced and I think a few other sensors. They mentioned the fuel injector pump but it's $4500 and wouldn't guarantee it would fix the problem.
i told him my thought was the waste gate where it cuts power from the turbo. And I believe the waste gates have issues on these motors.
Should have bought a duramax!
Then he would just be dealing with overheating issues and short engine life.
Apps hopefully and not the vp44. Have him cycle he key 3 times and leave it in the run position the 3rd time.Codes should pop where his mileage is displayed. He can call me if he wants ill pm you.
The pedal trick won't show older codes, he needs a real scanner. My money's on the vp.
ETA: Just saw the post about hitting the throttle to clear it up, a scanner should tell you weather it needs a new apps or not, but that's a common symptom.
He has replaced the TPS/APPS from what I understand and the problem is still there. Is there something wiring related that is common to short this sensor or a reason it would do it at certain temps and then come back to life by pushing the pedal a few times?
68Charger
08-17-2014, 08:58
Big key with vp44 equipped trucks is the lift pump... If it goes, or is weak the truck will still run but the vp44 will destroy itself... That design uses fuel to lube the pump.
Every vp44 truck should have a fuel pressure gauge, IMHO.
Okay I'll let him know about that
68Charger
08-17-2014, 11:04
The dead pedal could actually be the lift or VP44 pump dying- when it throws the p0216 code, it's too late, you need a new VP44 pump.
There is tons of info out there on VP44 lift pump issues... here's a good place to start:
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-02-powertrain/511902-vp44-lift-pump-problem.html
Depending on how much information does he want, there's a ton of info here:
http://articles.mopar1973man.com/2nd-generation-24v-dodge-cummins/25-fuel-system/49-fuel-pressure-specification-for-bosch-vp44-injection-pumps
but he doesn't have to spend $4500 on an injection pump (if it needs replacing), a reputable diesel shop can swap it with a rebuilt unit.
if he's on Facebook, have him check out Colorado Diesel Crew page- lots of helpful people there, and good vendors that can help if he needs parts or a shop to take it to.
There are usually other symptoms for the lift pump going tits up (bucking, should show > 5 psi under load) and very seldom is it the direct cause for the VP to fail. As stated the vp44 is lubricated by fuel, if the fuel filter isn't too restrictive, and quality fuel is being used, it'd take a dead lift pump a long time to kill the injection pump. I've had a guy fk the wiring on one and splice the lift pump wiring BACKWARDS! The pump ran...but when polarity is reversed, like many other DC motors, it'll spin the opposite direction. He ran the truck like that for almost 12k mi. Truck still running stronger than ever 5 years later (has a few mods now).
Awesome info guys I'll call him later
SouthPaw
08-17-2014, 12:59
FWIW, My hot rod cummins had the death code the VP44. My FASS pump had volume but not pressure. I fixed the fuel pressure issue, cleared the codes and the truck ran great. I had a friend that had the same issue. Once he figured out the low fuel pressure issue, his injection pump ran great, even with the VP44 death code. If he has the funds, steer him towards a good aftermarket lift pump if his injection pump needs to be replaced. It's expensive but if he plans on keeping the truck, it will be worth it.
Minor threadjack if you don't mind.
Last time out towing heavy, my 2004.5 5.9L HO had a few momentary and very minor surges/bucking. I was running the Edge Juice on #2 (tow). Pressure gauge looked good, no loss of power or other noticeable issues. I normally change the fuel filter once/year during one of the oil changes and didn't do it this last time as I only then realized I hadn't re-ordered some after using the last one. I'm even wondering if it wasn't the fuel we got during a fuel stop in Dulce. It was so very minor, almost like uneven road surface during a slight incline. Only happened a couple times not long after that fuel stop and I didn't notice it again after Alamosa.
Fueled up again in Monument and no issues since.
I run "wonder whiz" (PS/MMO) mix in it often to quite the injectors and did so on all fillups this time out. Hadn't run any through in a while prior.
Any thoughts?
I just did a FASS Titanium 150 and Edge Gauge setup for mine (02). Can't risk grenading the good old vp44. I'm about to turn 75k miles on her.
In 2001, the lift pump was removed and an in-tank pump used. If this is the case on your friends, there should be a fuel system mod sticker on the radiator support; the lift pump is on the drivers side mounted to the block near the firewall. I had to change my 2001 in-tank pump as well. It started to cut out after the pump heated up. If it hasn't been changed even with the miles, I would suggest doing so. I went ahead and modified my housing and put a new lift pump on the block. There is a pass through where the block mounted lift pump goes; a lift pump will bolt up in its place. I plan to eventually get a FASS system so I went this route until then. So far my VP44 is working fine after the lift pump install.
Should have bought a duramax!
My co-worker just spent $5,000 on injectors with approx 200,000 miles on his 2001 Duramax. I guess the Duramax injectors required head removal to replace injectors in those years and injector failure was pretty common. The ISB isn't as bullet proof as the 6bt, but I really like the 2nd Gen RAMs for the Dana 60/80 combo under them. There are so many examples of these trucks out there with insane miles on them. I really like mine.
I also did my stack setup in addition to the Edge Juice w/ Attitude. The power difference is insane! It's also quite smokey with the tuner on Level 5...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loI4dqN-HsM&list=UUpCfPCJYMehIG85UQFkbpqw
Funny at the end when the guy on the motorcycle disappeared as his buddy sped off
My co-worker just spent $5,000 on injectors with approx 200,000 miles on his 2001 Duramax. I guess the Duramax injectors required head removal to replace injectors in those years and injector failure was pretty common. The ISB isn't as bullet proof as the 6bt, but I really like the 2nd Gen RAMs for the Dana 60/80 combo under them. There are so many examples of these trucks out there with insane miles on them. I really like mine.
Most of those should have been covered under warranty. That was the weak point in that year. Of course the dodges had horrible transmissions and the ford 6.0 was/is total junk with the ridiculous variable guide vanes on the turbo.
my step dad bought an 02 cummins with a new tranny and loves it so far.
Pecu0216 pdone was a code it pulled up when I just talked to him. He had a tractor go down today so he wasn't able to call you guys. I'm getting some more info from him now. This issue has been going for 15 months about.
Found this quite interesting as well: http://www.dieselbombers.com/98-5-02-5-9l-24-valve-cummins-vp-44-tech-articles/4905-bosch-vp44-injection-pump-lift-pump-failures-explained.html
Codes:
ppcu
p1693
pdonE
pecu
p0216
pdonE
redneck122
08-18-2014, 21:50
If he still needs help, feel free to have him call me. PM me for #
On a side note...does anyone in here have experience with building stack flappers? I have an 8'' mitre cut stack and whenever it rains I'm tired of blowing sooty water all over my clean white truck. I am not going to drill a hole in the elbow of the pipe to drain water so I'm investigating the flapper option. Wouldn't be too hard to make if one of you guys have some solid fab skills? I looked online and they are way pricey!
SouthPaw
08-19-2014, 21:40
Codes:
ppcu
p1693
pdonE
pecu
p0216
pdonE
P0216 = death code for the VP44. Starved of fuel and was over heated. Looking about $1500 parts and labor to replace that but he needs to figure out his fuel pressure issue as well.
P0216 = death code for the VP44. Starved of fuel and was over heated. Looking about $1500 parts and labor to replace that but he needs to figure out his fuel pressure issue as well.
This one: P0216 it may work for a awhile if the flow/pressure problem is fixed that caused the fuel starvation issue.
This one, and it is dead: P1688 Internal Fuel Injection Pump Controller Failure. Internal problem within the fuel injection pump. Low power, engine derated, or engine stops.
A weak lift pump is probably the root cause of the issue. He is likely going to do a injection/lift pump replacement on this one.
Most of those should have been covered under warranty. That was the weak point in that year. Of course the dodges had horrible transmissions and the ford 6.0 was/is total junk with the ridiculous variable guide vanes on the turbo.
my step dad bought an 02 cummins with a new tranny and loves it so far.
There are definitely trade-offs. I like the Cummins and Chassis on the Dodge, I like the Duramax and Allison on the GMs, and I like the Chassis and Trans on the Fords. I almost pulled the trigger on an '02 Duramax in '04, but I couldn't get past the IFS and I don't particularly like the rest of the chassis for the kinds of things I do with my truck. Did your step dad use the 47RE or convert to a 48RE? The 48RE can be really strong with an extreme duty kit, but I agree the shifting of the 4sp isn't that great for towing. I will probably do a 48RE conversion on mine when my 47RE goes south, or an Allison if I get ambitious.
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