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View Full Version : WHAT caliber is to big to carry



2ndAmendment
06-03-2009, 19:13
HOLY smokes, I saw a guy open carrying a dessert eagle at SAFEWAY today......is that legal to carry..lmao......OVER kill i would say....Oh and buy the way all you need for a concealed is you hunter saftey card...most people dont know that ......$10 verses 75 for a private hand gun class

rhineoshott
06-03-2009, 19:33
OOh! awesome but silly!

good info. I didn't know that.

cysoto
06-03-2009, 20:04
Oh and buy the way all you need for a concealed is you hunter saftey card...
I believe that this varies from one county to the next. To the best of my knowledge Adams County will not accept the Hunter Safety Card as "proof of proficiency" for your CCW permit.

Link to Adams County Requirements: http://www.co.adams.co.us/Sheriff/CHP/InstructorsList.pdf

gnihcraes
06-03-2009, 20:33
Jefferson County specifically says:


Note: A hunter safety or comparable course is not acceptable.

2ndAmendment
06-03-2009, 20:33
Forgot to say in "EL PASO COUNTY" all you need is your hunter saftey card...sorry for the mix up....thought it was for all of colorado, but im POSITIVE for EL PASO...

Graves
06-04-2009, 05:00
Oh and buy the way all you need for a concealed is you hunter saftey card...most people dont know that ......$10 verses 75 for a private hand gun class

Some of the classes out there are a joke but there a few that are very informative and well worth the money, spending it there is only the beginning - Lt Col. J. Cooper said it best: "Owning a handgun doesn't make you any more armed than owning a guitar makes you a musician". So spend your money there and on some more advanced live fire classes so that you might know what to do if you find yourself in a bad situation. Or you can just shortcut and be another dumbass with a gun.

Colorado Osprey
06-04-2009, 06:07
What's too big?
Any gun that you can't shoot more than once without flinching. I know a lot of people that say they can shoot a full house 44 Mag..... But I've never met one that could. (ducking and covering as the flack comes in)
To some that is a 22lr to some that is the 500S&W
Most people are comfortable with something in between

The 357 magnum Desert Eagle is very tame, but not reliable unless you are shooting 158 grain full house magnum loads.

_____________________
Another great course to take whether you have a CCW or not is available at most community colleges.

FATS judgemental shooting

It's an interactive course for shoot... no-shoot senerios with a video screen and a gun that fires blanks and hits register on the screen.

It is geared for law enforcement but can help people calm down in shoot senerios and register what is happening not just with a potential threat but what's around them.

BadShot
06-04-2009, 07:23
Too big is the gun that you can't use effectively to stop the threat.

cheapo
06-04-2009, 16:27
I agree, too big is anything you can't control or place your shots. I carry a 9mm just because I am more accurate with it than my 45 cal.

2ndAmendment
06-04-2009, 16:27
Your right...For those that never used a gun in there life should go to those classes but for those who are already experinced can go that route....I say practice, practice, practice, cause you can never be to prepared when put in a bad situation.



Some of the classes out there are a joke but there a few that are very informative and well worth the money, spending it there is only the beginning - Lt Col. J. Cooper said it best: "Owning a handgun doesn't make you any more armed than owning a guitar makes you a musician". So spend your money there and on some more advanced live fire classes so that you might know what to do if you find yourself in a bad situation. Or you can just shortcut and be another dumbass with a gun.

cheapo
06-04-2009, 16:56
The CCW classes do vary a lot. I have taken several. It seems that some groups offer classes out of a political stand rather than a practical stand. The last class I went to, at the end when the instructor was signing the certificates of completion, he was rather blunt in his view by saying that if he wanted to, and he could just talk for a 1/2 hour and sign the certificates. As it was, the class was a non live fire course and judging by the few questions that were allowed there were a number of very inexperienced shooters there. To his credit he did encourage the class to take other classes to learn how to shoot, but there was very little instruction on practical CCW issues, i.e. responsibility.
I guess from a principled point of view an instructor could believe that everyone has the right to arm and defend themselves, and just sign the certificate to play the bureaucracy game, however, it seems a bit irresponsible to do so and a missed opportunity to actually instruct students on the use and responsibilities of lethal force in defending yourself.

Anyway, I have taken other CCW classes that I have learned a lot more in.

jerrymrc
06-04-2009, 17:19
The CCW classes do vary a lot. I have taken several. It seems that some groups offer classes out of a political stand rather than a practical stand. The last class I went to, at the end when the instructor was signing the certificates of completion, he was rather blunt in his view by saying that if he wanted to, and he could just talk for a 1/2 hour and sign the certificates. As it was, the class was a non live fire course and judging by the few questions that were allowed there were a number of very inexperienced shooters there. To his credit he did encourage the class to take other classes to learn how to shoot, but there was very little instruction on practical CCW issues, i.e. responsibility.
I guess from a principled point of view an instructor could believe that everyone has the right to arm and defend themselves, and just sign the certificate to play the bureaucracy game, however, it seems a bit irresponsible to do so and a missed opportunity to actually instruct students on the use and responsibilities of lethal force in defending yourself.

Anyway, I have taken other CCW classes that I have learned a lot more in.

Having been out of the Military for awhile the wife and I had to take a course. The first two questions were "how many have been in the Military" and "how many shoot competitively"

Every one in the class was ex military and only one out of the 10 or so did not shoot in any competitions. He then concentrated on the laws and rights and the do's and dont's.

ryanek9freak
06-05-2009, 20:56
I carry a 1911 Colt in .45, but I carry openly. I wouldn't have anything less than a .40 caliber.

I don't want the cops hearing any story but mine.

2ndAmendment
06-05-2009, 21:26
I carry a 1911 Colt in .45, but I carry openly. I wouldn't have anything less than a .40 caliber.

I don't want the cops hearing any story but mine.


Dead on with that answer!!! Dont want those Vermon filth to come back and sue you in court or have there mama's on tv saying "they killed my babe" even though he was a thug for life.

sniper7
06-05-2009, 21:31
i only carry a .50 bmg, 4 inch barrel.[Beer]










j/k depends on the season...winter it is a 1911 .45 and summer is a IWB Springfield XD9 sub compact

2ndAmendment
06-05-2009, 21:35
Anybody know the Limit on the amount of hand guns you can carry on you......I thought it was 2 but never really looked into it

cheapo
06-07-2009, 08:13
I believe that the way that the CCW law is written in Colorado you are allowed carry only 1 firearm.

ryanek9freak
06-08-2009, 20:57
I believe that the way that the CCW law is written in Colorado you are allowed carry only 1 firearm.
You show me where it says that.

You can carry as many guns as you can fit on your person. And there is no restriction on what TYPE of gun either. If you can conceal an FAL, then you can carry it under your CCW. Hell, you can carry it out in the open! Just put it on a sling behind your back.

2ndAmendment
06-09-2009, 00:28
holy shit, really?? lol


You show me where it says that.

You can carry as many guns as you can fit on your person. And there is no restriction on what TYPE of gun either. If you can conceal an FAL, then you can carry it under your CCW. Hell, you can carry it out in the open! Just put it on a sling behind your back.

7idl
06-09-2009, 06:08
don't leave home without it:

http://www.reedercustomguns.com/information/stupid/50bmgr.jpg





almost anything is going to be better than nothing.

too big? the 92f and usp45f seem too big for me for ccw (even though I carry a 1911) they're a bit bulky

too small? anything under 32 auto


just right? I like the USP40c and similarly sized autos. you can also find an assortment of power in revolvers that fit into a smaller sized package.

best thing is to find something that works for you, if you end up not wanting to pack it around all day, you're more likely to not do it and thus, leaving yourself un-protected.

Colorado Osprey
06-09-2009, 06:39
You show me where it says that.

You can carry as many guns as you can fit on your person. And there is no restriction on what TYPE of gun either. If you can conceal an FAL, then you can carry it under your CCW. Hell, you can carry it out in the open! Just put it on a sling behind your back.

Well, not written into the law, BUT
If you pull out your El Paso County permit the top says,
"EL PASO COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE CONEALED HANGDUN PERMIT"

I'd bet if you were trying to conceal an FAL you would get your permit revoked.
Last I checked, in El Paso county it is NOT a CCW (Concealed Carry Weapon) permit, it is only a concealed handgun permit. There are many prohibited weapons you can not carry concealed.
A rifle is a grey enough area that I wouldn't try risking loosing my license.

cheapo
06-09-2009, 17:59
You show me where it says that.

You can carry as many guns as you can fit on your person. And there is no restriction on what TYPE of gun either. If you can conceal an FAL, then you can carry it under your CCW. Hell, you can carry it out in the open! Just put it on a sling behind your back.

Lets see...where to start. Ok.. how about with a definition.
18-12-202. Definitions "Handgun" means a handgun as defined in section 18-12-101 (1) (e.5); except that the term does not include a machine gun as defined in section 18-12-101 (1) (g).

I don't believe that a rifle could be considered a "handgun".

Then there is this section:
18-12-214. Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions
(1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section. A permit does not authorize the permittee to use a handgun in a manner that would violate a provision of state law. A local government does not have authority to adopt or enforce an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of this part 2.

Consistantly through out the statutes handgun is always refered to in the singular. There is no where in the ccw statutes that suggests anything other than one handgun.

Of course you can carry anything number of weapons you want. Just not legally.

Many CCW holders don't seem to realize in Colorado there is no provision for "brandishing". Basically, you draw it - you use it. If you draw your weapon and don't use it, you do open yourself to a Class 5 felony Menacing charge. One cool thing about Colorado's CCW is that there is no "retreat" clause, as there is in a number of other states. In Colorado you can stand your ground and defend yourself, as was the case in Aurora a few years back in the Blockbuster parking lot.

ryanek9freak
06-09-2009, 18:46
There's also nowhere that suggests that you may only carry one gun.
I don't care is "Singular" is implied, that would never hold up in court, as there is not definitive clause.

I regularly carry my 1911 and a Keltec PF9 for a BUG. I've asked several officers about this issue, and they all tell me they aren't aware of any reason why you can't carry more than one firearm.

I admit, I got carried away with the definition, but hey, what If I carried an AR pistol? That's technically defined as a handgun.

Colorado Osprey
06-18-2009, 17:55
but hey, what If I carried an AR pistol? .
(smiles sheepishly while thinking of a concealed AR 7.5" pistol with a Beta Drum mag on a single point sling hung under a very light wind breaker)

Colorado Osprey
06-19-2009, 06:28
I agree with the above statements on caliber not being very critical.

Here's an interesting read: (9mm vs 45ACP)
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm%20vs%2045.htm

" Conclusion and Thoughts on 9mm vs. 45ACP:


It is my belief based on data from serious researchers that with FMJ, the 45-caliber automatic is more potent than the 9mm. That does not mean that I believe either to be anywhere near the top of the list for self-protection. I do not believe that "they all fall to hardball."

I do tend to agree that the expanding defensive bullet should penetrate between about 12 and 14". This may be more than required for a straight on, unobstructed chest shot, but it better insures punching the vitals should an intermediate target like an arm get in the way. It would also likely be more effective if the shot was made from the side rather than the front or back.

I am convinced that the size of the wound channel from an expanded .45 ACP bullet will be larger than that from the 9mm and this should make it more effective, but I have not seen a noticeable difference on animals as mentioned previously. I am equally convinced that gelatin results may or very well may not match what actually occurs in flesh-and-bone targets.

Probably the most important factor in stopping power (regardless of caliber) remains placement. That this can be difficult to obtain in the life-and-death fight scenario doesn't change the necessity for it if we want the opponent to go down for physical rather than psychological reasons.

With the best loads, I opine that .45 ACP is a better "man stopper" than 9mm with its best loads, but am not sure of by what margin.

I do not believe that a 9mm loaded with the better loads is an inadequate defense gun and frequently tote one myself.

I do not "trust" either the .45 ACP or the 9mm (or any other handgun caliber) to provide the elusive "one shot stop" unless the brain or central nervous system is destroyed.

I am not convinced that the temporary cavity produced by handgun bullets is totally irrelevant, but I also have no idea of how it may actually contribute. I wish there would be more serious research in this area.

Either of these calibers with any load may fail to provide the desired results even with a "good" hit. Either may require multiple "good" hits.

Perhaps either caliber would provide fewer failures if we practiced as much as we worry about our caliber's stopping potential.

I believe that we will continue to see stunning successes and dismal failures with all commonly used defensive handgun calibers including the 9mm and .45 ACP. "

theGinsue
06-19-2009, 14:07
I've only read two of the three pages of posts so far (I'll go back and get the last page), but my thoughts on this are:

To determine what caliber (and FRAME) is too big you need:
(a) As Dirty Harry said, "A man's gotta know his limitations. Know what you can accurately and safely shoot.
(b) Determine what you are comfortable carrying. Personally, a .50cal Desert eagle would be way to big for me to carry and Id feel that I had the absolute minimum firepower in a .38spl. (this answer combines the size of the firearm as well as the caliber).
(c) As Ryan said "I don't want the cops hearing any story but mine". The legal response to the use of a firearm is "I just wanted the assault to stop". If a person is comfortable with just using a .308 to "stop the assault", that's on them, but I agree with Ryan... If I ever had to draw a firearm on someone, I would assume that I WILL be using it and, at that point, I'd rather MY version of the unfolded events is the one that the cops and DA hear. I'm not comfortable with the idea of getting hauled into court by some wheelchair bound thug who is seeking pity from a jury because I'm the one that put him in the chair. Given todays climate towards guns, I can only assume that the guy would end up owning my house and anything I've worked hard to own. I want a caliber that will knock the thug down and keep him down for good.