Meanwhile in Russia...

[ruthabagah]

Mud detector delivered...


http://youtu.be/Zl12dXYcUTo

[davsel]

That was awesome!

[spqrzilla]

You do know that the only way that NASA can put US astronauts into space is by flying Russian launchers?

[kidicarus13]

If you're the man with the camera, about the time that thing goes horizontal is time you realize today may be your last.

[ruthabagah]

You do know that the only way that NASA can put US astronauts into space is by flying Russian launchers?

Yes, and while Russia has experienced a stellar reliability with their manned rocket, their commercial payload rocket are not as successful.

[spqrzilla]

And just to increase people's understanding of just how screwed we are these days, the Atlas 5 that we use for most launches these days uses Russian RD 180 motors.

[BPTactical]

Oops.
Wonder if they forgot to convert to the metric system......

[Erni]

Incorrectly installed gyro sensor. Spectacular crash though.

[RblDiver]

Pffft, I could do that too, and for much less money. http://store.steampowered.com/app/220200/ :P

[sniper7]

Actually this was a FPS Russia video. He was killing prairie dogs, Russian rocket style!

[Bailey Guns]

It seems they would've destroyed that rocket before it went all out of control and crashed into the ground. Then again, it's Russia. They probably aren't too worried about stuff on the ground it the launch goes bad.

And as far as NASA goes, they're too busy trying to confirm global warming and other bullshit leftist agendas. The NASA from my childhood in the 60s isn't the same NASA of today. NASA was once an organization to hold in awe. Now it's just another government agency. It's really sad.

[Duman]

So THAT'S how the Russkies drill for oil.....

[KevDen2005]

Oops.
Wonder if they forgot to convert to the metric system......


I hate the metric system

[ZERO THEORY]

global warming...bullshit

http://www.miscupload.com/upload4/334362324478006018944068.gif (http://www.miscupload.com/upload4/334362324478006018944068.gif)

[ruthabagah]

I hate the metric system
In russia, metric system hates you!

[HoneyBadger]

It seems they would've destroyed that rocket before it went all out of control and crashed into the ground. Then again, it's Russia. They probably aren't too worried about stuff on the ground it the launch goes bad.

And as far as NASA goes, they're too busy trying to confirm global warming and other bullshit leftist agendas. The NASA from my childhood in the 60s isn't the same NASA of today. NASA was once an organization to hold in awe. Now it's just another government agency. It's really sad.
Yes, and yes.

[vossman]

They put three other Glonass birds in the Pacific a year or two ago. Hail GPS.

[ruthabagah]

They put three other Glonass birds in the Pacific a year or two ago. Hail GPS.

No, these are in fact submarine beacons.

[HoneyBadger]

They put three other Glonass birds in the Pacific a year or two ago. Hail GPS.
Things are not working out well for the Europeans either:
http://spacenews.com/article/launch-report/41650galileo-launch-initially-hailed-as-success-is-a-failure

PONTE VEDRA, Florida — The Aug. 22 launch of the first two fully operational Galileo positioning, navigation and timing satellites, initially cheered as a success, will now be registered as a failure of the Europeanized Soyuz rocket’s Fregat upper stage, which left the satellites in a useless orbit, government and industry officials said Aug. 23.

As of midafternoon Central European Time Aug. 23 — 24 hours after launch and 20 hours after the Fregat stage inserted the satellites into orbit (http://www.spacenews.com/article/launch-report/41640galileo-deployment-shifts-into-high-gear-with-launch-of-1st-fully) — launch service provider Arianespace and the European Space Agency said they were still investigating the injection anomaly and could not conclude what, if any, effect it would have on the two satellites’ functionality.

Arianespace released a statement late on Aug. 23 saying the satellites, for reasons unknown, were placed into a wrong orbit by the rocket's Fregat upper stage.

[ruthabagah]

Things are not working out well for the Europeans either:
http://spacenews.com/article/launch-report/41650galileo-launch-initially-hailed-as-success-is-a-failure




Yep: Russian Fregat rocket..... See a pattern here?

[clublights]

And as far as NASA goes, they're too busy trying to confirm global warming and other bullshit leftist agendas. The NASA from my childhood in the 60s isn't the same NASA of today. NASA was once an organization to hold in awe. Now it's just another government agency. It's really sad.


60's NASA was run by Engineers, with a goal.... not bureaucrats with the only goal being getting promoted....

[theGinsue]

And just to increase people's understanding of just how screwed we are these days, the Atlas 5 that we use for most launches these days uses Russian RD 180 motors.

Speaking of which....

Last Friday, SpaceX (the company founder & CEO is Elon Musk of Paypal & Tesla Motors fame) performed a test launch/flight with a Falcon9 from a test range over Texas. Shortly after TO, the F9R systems sensed something wasn't right and executed an "Auto-termination explosion" during the test flight [See video embedded below]. There was supposed to be a launch this evening of another SpaceX Falcon9 rocket but it's been delayed 24 hours due to the failed test launch last Friday. If no one gets figgitty between now & then, it'l launch tomorrow night (SpaceX is notorious for repeatedly delaying their launches & executing/attempting to execute them on holidays - see Falcon9 SES8 launch attempt last Thanksgiving).

lnqjnxfjgUk

ETA: Corrected my text.

[sniper7]

The company my FIL works for has had 1 failed orbit of one of their satellites and the last one blew up. Insured for $1 billion each luckily. Supposed to launch another soon.

they can see the expiration numbers on your license plates.

[zteknik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEkOT3IngMQ

[HoneyBadger]

The company my FIL works for has...

they can see the expiration numbers on your license plates.

I seriously doubt this, mostly because of the physical properties of light gathering instrumentation. I did the math a while back and to be able to read the big numbers in your license plate, the focal length of the telescope had to be several times larger than the Hubble (BuffCyclist should be able to support me here if I'm not mistaken). Nevermind the optical abnormalities of 400+km of atmosphere, lighting angles, shadows, humidity, clouds, relative motion, etc. I'm sure your FIL is a great guy, but I would recommend taking this with a few grains of salt. The big issue for me is that if we (US Gov) had this kind of resolution, I would be using it for my job fairly regularly.

[KevDen2005]

In russia, metric system hates you!

YES!!!

[BushMasterBoy]

The Russians are a little less secretive about whats out there in space. And they got to orbit before the US too. This was supposedly released by the KGB.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc0menDzaUE

[Irving]

Good video.

[Circuits]

SpaceX does not use the RD180 engine, it uses a homegrown series of Merlin rocket engines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merlin_%28rocket_engine%29
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merlin_%28rocket_engine%29)
Only has about 1/5 the thrust of the RD180, but they're made here, in 'murka!

[Aloha_Shooter]

Space Command wants to replace the RD-180s: http://defensesystems.com/articles/2014/08/21/space-command-eelv-rocket-engine.aspx?s=ds_250814. I know Gen Shelton expressed dissatisfaction with being dependent on the Russians at the last National Space Symposium.

[HoneyBadger]

Space Command wants to replace the RD-180s: http://defensesystems.com/articles/2014/08/21/space-command-eelv-rocket-engine.aspx?s=ds_250814. I know Gen Shelton expressed dissatisfaction with being dependent on the Russians at the last National Space Symposium.
Yep. I was at the Space Symposium too. :)

[sniper7]

I seriously doubt this, mostly because of the physical properties of light gathering instrumentation. I did the math a while back and to be able to read the big numbers in your license plate, the focal length of the telescope had to be several times larger than the Hubble (BuffCyclist should be able to support me here if I'm not mistaken). Nevermind the optical abnormalities of 400+km of atmosphere, lighting angles, shadows, humidity, clouds, relative motion, etc. I'm sure your FIL is a great guy, but I would recommend taking this with a few grains of salt. The big issue for me is that if we (US Gov) had this kind of resolution, I would be using it for my job fairly regularly.

i wouldn't call him a great guy, but he is manageable.

The hubble was launched in 1990. Think of the technology changes since then, even simple things like a cell phone, then move on to cameras, how many megapixels you can get, the quality of glass, the quality of the focus you can get now. And that is just on simple stuff we use every day.

Even in 2000, satellites could see if a vehicle had a license plate, couldn't read it, but could tell if one was there. 14 years is a lot of time and a lot of satellites have been launched since then.

[Aloha_Shooter]

i wouldn't call him a great guy, but he is manageable.

The hubble was launched in 1990. Think of the technology changes since then, even simple things like a cell phone, then move on to cameras, how many megapixels you can get, the quality of glass, the quality of the focus you can get now. And that is just on simple stuff we use every day.

Even in 2000, satellites could see if a vehicle had a license plate, couldn't read it, but could tell if one was there. 14 years is a lot of time and a lot of satellites have been launched since then.

Sensors change but optics doesn't. There's a limit to what kind of resolvable image you can get based on the primary aperture of the telescope. Yes, you can compensate for atmospheric distortion using deformable mirrors but that usually requires something like a laser guidestar. You can do subpixel processing but that usually requires extended image integration which is pretty tricky given the satellite motion. Bottom line, I might buy the satellite could see the expiration sticker on your plate but I don't buy it can produce a resolvable image allowing you to read the sticker.

[HoneyBadger]

Sensors change but optics doesn't. There's a limit to what kind of resolvable image you can get based on the primary aperture of the telescope. Yes, you can compensate for atmospheric distortion using deformable mirrors but that usually requires something like a laser guidestar. You can do subpixel processing but that usually requires extended image integration which is pretty tricky given the satellite motion. Bottom line, I might buy the satellite could see the expiration sticker on your plate but I don't buy it can produce a resolvable image allowing you to read the sticker.
Agreed. As I said above, optical physics is the big limiter here. There are some nifty tricks, but mm resolution is something I don't think you can get from LEO with current tech.

[BushMasterBoy]

These guys can read your license plate expiration tags. Not only that, they can tell how many spark plugs are firing under your hood!

http://www.vocativ.com/usa/nat-sec/colonel-labyrinth/#!bLcVlX

[Erni]

For the geeks: Seeing stickers would take better than NIIRS 9. Not sure if that is doable from 500 km up and a velocity of over 17,000 mph. The physics are a biotch.
Space Symposium rocks!

[BushMasterBoy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37

[HoneyBadger]

For the geeks: Seeing stickers would take better than NIIRS 9. Not sure if that is doable from 500 km up and a velocity of over 17,000 mph. The physics are a biotch.
Space Symposium rocks!
Thanks. I wasn't sure if anyone else here would be familiar with the NIIRS scale. Assuming we're only talking about visible light here, (SAR and IR wouldn't read the colored letters on the tag) the standard for NIIRS 9 is to read an actual license plate number.

For those who are unfamiliar with NIIRS, 9 is the end of the scale. Most commercially available satellite imagery (google earth) is NIIRS 4 or 5.

[HoneyBadger]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37
I'm sorry, I'm not really sure what you are trying to communicate with your post. Assuming you live in Pueblo, geostationary orbits over your house are not possible. Additionally, the X-37 cannot fly to Geo. If you really think the X-37 is spying on you, your sense of self-importance is greatly inflated.

[Alpha2]

I'm trying to miss the point, but I see you've got that covered.

[BushMasterBoy]

The X-37 can be used to haul a large variety of payloads. It can have a remote manipulator grab a satellite in orbit. It is really just an unmanned mini shuttle.
Did you read the wiki report? Yeah it is classified, but it can do a lot more than the wiki report. Of course you guys know everything...just like the guys on arfcom!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_mechanics

[Aloha_Shooter]

I suggest you read the link you posted yourself. Big difference between being at LEO, somewhere between 300 and 1000 km altitude, and being at GEO (~35,786 km altitude). Including an inclination change of 30 degrees, you're looking at 4.7 km/s delta-v to go from a 300 km circular orbit to equatorial geostationary.

Like HoneyBadger, I don't understand what you're trying to say by linking to speculation about the X-37 but hell, it's just my profession so what would I know?

[HoneyBadger]

I don't understand what you're trying to say by linking to speculation about the X-37 but hell, it's just my profession so what would I know?
Ditto.

...and since you seem to know all about rendezvous and prox ops, why don't you tell us how those orbital mechanics work between LEO and GEO?? [facepalm]

[sniper7]

Sensors change but optics doesn't. There's a limit to what kind of resolvable image you can get based on the primary aperture of the telescope. Yes, you can compensate for atmospheric distortion using deformable mirrors but that usually requires something like a laser guidestar. You can do subpixel processing but that usually requires extended image integration which is pretty tricky given the satellite motion. Bottom line, I might buy the satellite could see the expiration sticker on your plate but I don't buy it can produce a resolvable image allowing you to read the sticker.


So why can you believe it can see the sticker but not be able to produce an image of the sticker with clarity. And what's to stop optics from improving...are we at the ultimate limit? I honestly don't know a lot of details or facts/figures of satellites or optics/imagery, but I don't doubt we have the technology to see clear images of small objects from space. It's not like it's really that inconceivable of a notion.

[HoneyBadger]

So why can you believe it can see the sticker but not be able to produce an image of the sticker with clarity. And what's to stop optics from improving...are we at the ultimate limit? I honestly don't know a lot of details or facts/figures of satellites or optics/imagery, but I don't doubt we have the technology to see clear images of small objects from space. It's not like it's really that inconceivable of a notion.
As I said previously, the optical physics, combined with building and launch constraints are what limit us. It is absolutely possible, but it would require an absolutely huge focal length, which means a huge and extremely heavy satellite, which means an extremely costly to build and costlier to launch satellite (I don't even know if anyone in the world has a launch capability to launch a satellite of the size and weight we are talking about). Assuming it is technically feasible to get that kind of resolution from LEO, it's really not a good cost/benefit analysis either when you can put up 1 $20M drone which can give us great resolution and is easy to reprogram, repair, update, etc, vs a $10B satellite that is impractical to repair, operates in much harsher conditions, and offers very little tactical, operational, or strategic advantage over a drone.

[Bailey Guns]

Badger and Aloha...better watch out. A lot of experts out there gonna have your jobs if you're not careful.

[Coffee]

[Aloha_Shooter]

HoneyBadger, just to clarify, if I can get one of those huge comm sats up to GEO, I can put a metric shit ton of payload in LEO orbit. The question is what all do you build with that mass and how do you keep it together with all the stresses of a launch.

For those of you that still think you can do it, let's look at the problem in reverse. The Air Force Research Lab has released a lot of their imagery using some of the most advanced optics in the world. Stuff you can't possibly fit on a current rocket and that wouldn't survive the stresses of a launch -- but never mind physics or engineering.

48931


From http://www.kirtland.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/100526-F-1035P-002%20Atlantis%20Processed.jpg:
48933

sniper7 -- big difference between seeing the blob of a colored sticker and having enough resolution to read what's on it. You can see that yourself by taking shots at different ranges using any digital camera. Yes, the satellites are much bigger than the lens on your camera but so is the range and the problem only gets more difficult with range.

[Erni]

On a side note, I am glad I am not the only "gun guy" in aerospace. Numer of gun guys in engineering is too small.

[HoneyBadger]

On a side note, I am glad I am not the only "gun guy" in aerospace. Numer of gun guys in engineering is too small.
Agreed. Sometimes it freaks me out. [Coffee]

[Aloha_Shooter]

You would be surprised at the number of gun guys in aerospace.

[.455_Hunter]

On a side note, I am glad I am not the only "gun guy" in aerospace. Numer of gun guys in engineering is too small.

I work for gov't contractor focused on specialized R&D/engineering for the DoD, DHS, etc. Over half of our Littleton office (40 folks) are gun guys, some very hardcore.

[Erni]

@455_Hunter are you guys hiring? Lol.

[.455_Hunter]

@455_Hunter are you guys hiring? Lol.

Just depends.

Engineer / Scientist?
Security Clearance?
Program Management / Marketing Experience?

You never know...

[flogger]

Eventually, all these spacecraft will fall back to Earth in a crispy fireball.

[Erni]

@455. I think I fit that description. Currently I have a good and challenging position, but if the company fails to get the next contact award I will PM you. ..