View Full Version : Lawsuit targets online ammo retailers that allegedly sold to Aurora Theater shooter
http://kdvr.com/2014/09/15/lawsuit-targets-online-retailers-that-allegedly-sold-to-aurora-theater-shooter/
It's baffling to me how they can sue a retailer for what was likely a legal purchase. I can only hope a judge throws the case out, but that is probably wishful thinking.
68Charger
09-15-2014, 13:55
so the online retailer should sue the Psycho TheRapist who didn't release his private medical info, allowing them to have the information they needed to deny the purchase?
Would have just as much validity as the suit brought by the Brady bunch
68Charger
09-15-2014, 16:12
Reminded me of the time that somebody edited the wikipedia entry for the Brady fidiots.. re-classified them as a hate-group
Took them WAAAY to long to notice and fix it... just very clearly showed how inept they are in new ways.
ETA: apparently, it's happened more than once... and under definitions of hate groups, they meet the requirements, since they insist upon violating civil rights of individuals.
And Foxtrot's point is unfortunately true- which is why I bring up counter-suit...
deny, deny, deny, and counter-accuse.
This may not go anywhere but you and I know there's gonna be some ass pain we'll have to endure because of it. Fuckers!
Ranger353
09-15-2014, 20:27
This may not go anywhere but you and I know there's gonna be some ass pain we'll have to endure because of it. Fuckers!
+1 Those Brady bums are the scum of the earth.
Aloha_Shooter
09-15-2014, 20:35
This may not go anywhere but you and I know there's gonna be some ass pain we'll have to endure because of it. Fuckers!
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
You're supposed to embrace that particular pain in the name of diversity these days.
Sue gas stations as the cause for drunk drivers! [Sarcasm2]
Liberalism is a mental disorder.
funkymonkey1111
09-16-2014, 15:12
going after the sellers because it was foreseeable:
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_26544729/parents-theater-shooting-victim-file-suit-against-ammo?source=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
he parents of Jessica Ghawi, who was killed in the 2012 Aurora theater shootings, filed a lawsuit in Arapahoe County District Court on Tuesday against four Internet ammunition and military-grade supply companies who they allege recklessly supplied the man accused in the attack.
"We're putting them on notice," said Lonnie Phillips, Ghawi's father, at a news conference in Denver. "We're coming after you."
The lawsuit was filed by the nationally recognized law firm Arnold & Porter LLP's Denver office in conjunction with the Washington D.C.-based Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. The companies named in the litigation are scattered in Tennessee, Pennsylvania, Minnesota and Arizona.
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2014/0916/20140916__Jessica-Ghawi-Brady-Center_lawsuit%7Ep1_200.jpg (http://www.denverpost.com/portlet/article/html/imageDisplay.jsp?contentItemRelationshipId=6243289 )Aurora theater shooting victim Jessica Ghawi's photo is displayed at a Brady Center press conference in Denver, Tuesday, September 16, 2014. (Craig F. Walker, The Denver Post)
The suit seeks a civil action for injunctive relief for "negligently and unlawfully" supplying ammunition, tear gas and body armor to James Holmes, a "patently dangerous homicidal man." The Phillips say the companies should have seen the foreseeable risk that their products would be used in such an attack.
"The defendants did not make reasonable inquiries into Holmes' purchases, nor did the defendants take any extra precautions when selling Holmes weapons, accessories and ammunition, or ask Holmes why he wanted the items," the lawsuit says.
The defendants in the lawsuit are listed as BulkAmmo.com, BulletProofBodyArmorHQ.com, sportmansguide.com and BTP Arms. Court filings — which outline the alleged killer's psychiatric background and the details of the attack — say the Phillips are not seeking to challenge law-abiding gun owner's rights.
DOCUMENT: Read the lawsuit. (http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2014/0916/20140916_012031_lucky-gunner-lawsuit.pdf)
BulletProofBodyArmorHQ declined to comment when contacted by The Denver Post on Tuesday while the three other sites listed in the suit did not immediately return requests for comment.
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2014/0916/20140916__THEATERSHOOT_CFW_2CW2647x%7Ep1_200.jpg (http://www.denverpost.com/portlet/article/html/imageDisplay.jsp?contentItemRelationshipId=6243300 )Attorney Kelly Sampson of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence addresses the media during a press conference at Arnold and Porter LLP in Denver, CO, September 16, 2014. (Craig F. Walker, The Denver Post)
The companies sold Holmes thousands of rounds of ammunition, a high-capacity ammunition magazine, tear gas and various pieces of bullet-proof body armor, according to the suit.
"A company should not be able to sell tear gas with the same procedures used to sell a pair of shoes," said Kelly Sampson, an attorney for the Brady Center.
The suit seeks for the companies to change and stop their sales until their screening practices are changed.
Ghawi, a Texas native, was 24 years old when she was gunned down in the theater. She had been working for a television station in Denver covering sports at the time of her death.
Lonnie Phillips said Tuesday he thought his wife's yells that awoke him when she found out their daughter was dead were because someone was breaking into his home.
"I could hear screams in the background of the theater," Sandy Phillips said of the call informing her Ghawi was dead.
The Phillips have become outspoken gun restriction proponents, having knocked on doors in Colorado Springs speaking (http://www.denverpost.com/News/State/ci_24015106/Aurora-Newton-relatives-campaign-in-Colo) with potential recall voters in 2013, urging them to keep state Sen. John Morse in office. Morse, who vehemently backed several gun restriction bills in the state legislature, was recalled (http://www.denverpost.com/News/ci_25361412/Topples-in-recalls-Colorado-Senate-Democrats).
Twelve people were killed and 70 more injured (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_26538616) inside of an Aurora movie theater in the rampage.
sellersm
09-16-2014, 15:18
Think this is a dup: https://www.ar-15.co/threads/138441-Lawsuit-targets-online-ammo-retailers-that-allegedly-sold-to-Aurora-Theater-shooter
Ranger353
09-16-2014, 15:19
Misguided and misinformed. I feel sad for the family but they are barking up the wrong tree. Don't like the access to teargas then change the law, don't after the law abiding businesses. To add some perspective based on the Brady attorney, if I kick someone in the head and kill them then they can file a lawsuit against the company that made my steel toe boots because they made so easy for me to buy them.
funkymonkey1111
09-16-2014, 15:26
sorry--i looked and looked--mods delete please
This type of frivolous litigation ends with states being placed on lists of "Do Not Ship To" locations.
I wish lawyers who brought these types of lawsuits would be disbarred after they exceed their quota of frivolous actions. Never going to happen but I still would like it to happen.
The People of Colorado will be paying for legal and living expenses for this particular "homicidal maniac" for the rest of his life.
SideShow Bob
09-16-2014, 17:25
The next thing you know here in CO. We will have to buy ammo at an FFL after passing a background check...........
68Charger
09-16-2014, 17:27
This type of frivolous litigation ends with states being placed on lists of "Do Not Ship To" locations.
I wish lawyers who brought these types of lawsuits would be disbarred after they exceed their quota of frivolous actions. Never going to happen but I still would like it to happen.
The People of Colorado will be paying for legal and living expenses for this particular "homicidal maniac" for the rest of his life.
we seriously need Tort reform- maybe more than we needed Healthcare reform (I know we need it now, after O-care)
But it will never happen, too many lawyers entrenched in the system, and it's too corrupt already.
68Charger
09-16-2014, 17:28
The next thing you know here in CO. We will have to buy ammo at an FFL after passing a background check...........
And that will be when I decide to move- and/or buy a semi-automated press... (ammo plant)
we seriously need Tort reform- maybe more than we needed Healthcare reform (I know we need it now, after O-care)
But it will never happen, too many lawyers entrenched in the system, and it's too corrupt already.
Most politicians are lawyers. Why would lawyers take away a major source of revenue for their profession?
"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." Dick the butcher, from Henry The Sixth, Part 2 Act 4, scene 2, 71–78
Most politicians are lawyers. Why would lawyers take away a major source of revenue for their profession.
True statement.
Most politicians are lawyers. Why would lawyers take away a major source of revenue for their profession?
Most judges were lawyers as well. The fix is in.
Great-Kazoo
09-16-2014, 19:45
hit the triangle icon to the right of blog this post.
OtterbatHellcat
09-16-2014, 19:52
The same shit happened with the Columbine kids parents, and the Gabby Gifford deal.
All of it really sucks, but it's worse when these folks go on "crusades" like this.
Find your closure some other fucking way, dammit.
jerrymrc
09-16-2014, 20:34
Fixed.
I often prefer to read within the thread rather than an external link, but just a word of caution to those that post the entirety of an article in a thread. Publishers are starting to go after forum sites for copyright infringement when this occurs. There's money involved when they lose those clicks, and they come after those responsible.
I don't recall if I've seen it posted here before, but many sites are asking members to not copy/paste articles in the threads, but rather use links.
funkymonkey1111
09-17-2014, 18:00
I often prefer to read within the thread rather than an external link, but just a word of caution to those that post the entirety of an article in a thread. Publishers are starting to go after forum sites for copyright infringement when this occurs. There's money involved when they lose those clicks, and they come after those responsible.
I don't recall if I've seen it posted here before, but many sites are asking members to not copy/paste articles in the threads, but rather use links.
funny, because there's some here that have said "i'm not clicking on a link just because you put it in a thread...." hence the cut/paste of the article's text
buffalobo
09-17-2014, 18:07
funny, because there's some here that have said "i'm not clicking on a link just because you put it in a thread...." hence the cut/paste of the article's text
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. [emoji48]
lobbed from my electronic ball and chain
This law suite is stupid on every level. Why is the place that sold him the guns not being sued? I say because they did a background check and all they want now is a BGC for every other item "they" determine to be dangerous. The BCG for his guns did not find him to be "patently dangerous homicidal man" how would an ammo or accessory dealer know this. This suite is just there to bring attention to there cause. The news will never report when it is dismissed or dropped or settled out of court.
In a way it is poetic justice when it comes to Sportsman's Guide, I tried to by a hunting knife and they won't ship to Colorado. Something about any blade over 3 1/2". So maybe with Sportsman's Guide attorney's being that stupid at interpreting laws maybe this suite has a chance.
Zundfolge
09-17-2014, 19:43
I feel sad for the family but they are barking up the wrong tree.
My sympathy ended when they decide to cash in on their pain to feed the leftist political agenda and try to take my rights. Eff 'em. [Rant1]
$10 says if we'd have met these people before the shooting we'd all agree they were a bunch of leftist douches worth only our disdain (just like the father of the kid shot by the nutter in Santa Barbara).
This news pissed me off about how people can be so dumb!
Why they don't sue the Theater? We'll, the Theater is a "Gun Free Zone" how Holmes was there with guns?...he was illegal and the theater don't stop them! Duhhh
(Sarcasm 101)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
kidicarus13
09-18-2014, 05:43
Why they don't sue the Theater?
http://deadline.com/2014/08/cinemark-aurora-theater-shooting-lawsuit-jury-dark-knight-rises-820639/
n8tive97
09-18-2014, 08:12
Heart breaks for the families of the victims, but this horrific tragedy is being overshadowed by ignorance. No way to memorialize the life of your child. I would take up reversing the no gun zones and encourage people to be properly trained and arm themselves so when these sick SOB's think shooting up a school or theatre is a good idea, they get lit up by law abiding citizens.
Sent from my ultra conservative tracking device.
This is not my area of expertise, but I believe the statute of limitations expired. Generally, I thought negligence claims were two years.
Zundfolge
09-18-2014, 11:53
So how is this suit possible after the 2005 Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act?
Great-Kazoo
09-18-2014, 13:18
So how is this suit possible after the 2005 Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act?
it has nothing to do with Lawful Commerce and everything to do with the Brady & VPC gun ban agenda.
I think suits like this are intended to chill commerce which some people find objectionable. They don't care that the lawsuit will be dismissed. The aim is to send more retailers down the same road as Dick's, Cheaper than Dirt, Jax, etc... Everytime some retailer like Target, Starbucks, Panera kowtow to the fear mongers and control crazed loonies, they bring our nation closer to the brink of servitude.
I feel for the victims of tragedy. I still drive my car and I continue to eat fat and sugar everyday; and these things cause far more death and destruction to more people in our country.
Be safe...but more importantly Be Free!
Injunctive relief for "the defendants didn't take any extra precautions when selling Holmes weapons, accessories and ammunition, or ask Holmes why he wanted the items"?
Perfect candidate for rule 12(b). There is no valid claim pled in which relief may be sought. It would be fun to be a defense attorney on that one. I don't see any way in which they can plead an obligation for retailers to ask why someone "wants" items.
They will go for duty of care. Since weapons and ammo only serve to kill, mame, and rape children.
Zundfolge
09-18-2014, 16:49
it has nothing to do with Lawful Commerce and everything to do with the Brady & VPC gun ban agenda.
I understand why the antis are pushing the suit ... they're nuts. But my point is that isn't this the very kind of frivolous suit that the PLCAA was written to prevent? Shouldn't it be dismissed immediately on PLCAA grounds alone?
I understand why the antis are pushing the suit ... they're nuts. But my point is that isn't this the very kind of frivolous suit that the PLCAA was written to prevent? Shouldn't it be dismissed immediately on PLCAA grounds alone?
There are six exceptions to the blanket civil immunity provided by the PLCAA:
(1) an action brought against someone convicted of “knowingly transfer[ing] a firearm, knowing that such firearm will be used to commit a crime of violence” by someone directly harmed by such unlawful conduct;
(2) an action brought against a seller for negligent entrustment or negligence per se;
(3) an action in which a manufacturer or seller of a qualified product knowingly violated a State or Federal statute applicable to the sale or marketing of the product, and the violation was a proximate cause of the harm for which relief is sought;3 (http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-industry-immunity-policy-summary/#footnote_2_5973)
(4) an action for breach of contract or warranty in connection with the purchase of the product;
(5) an action for death, physical injuries or property damage resulting directly from a defect in design or manufacture of the product, when used as intended or in a reasonably foreseeable manner, except that where the discharge of the product was caused by a volitional act that constituted a criminal offense, then such act shall be considered the sole proximate cause of any resulting death, personal injuries or property damage; or
(6) an action commenced by the Attorney General to enforce the Gun Control Act or the National Firearms Act.4 (http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-industry-immunity-policy-summary/#footnote_3_5973)
See my post above (#38) and then compare to item 2. That and the PLCAA only protects lawful manufacturers and dealers of firearms.
If they win and get dealers to cave, I bet in the future we will need to enter a reason on the internet orders. Something thing like "I need a bullet proof vest because I live in a bad neighborhood" or "I'm buying ammo to donate to the local kids shooting club" and "My wife needs tear gas because she can't carry a gun at work". And doesn't asking why you need it make everybody feel safer!
One way to cut down on frivolous law suites is to let anybody sue anybody, looser pays all attorney fees. That way if someone is really at fault they pay everything, if it's frivolous you have some skin in the game and it could actually cost you something. People might actually look hard at the legitimacy of the suite they are filing.
Because 'Merica and Fuck You!
Dutch Commando
09-21-2014, 14:10
Big E3 I like the way you think.
Aloha_Shooter
09-22-2014, 13:47
God I'd love to start a class action lawsuit against VPC et al for this garbage. The damages would be the hard item to prove; we could talk about the increase in costs to obtain ammunition and parts (magazines) necessary to our Constitutionally-protected rights of self-defense but I doubt that would fly in court. Then again, if a couple of over-18 "orphans" can get jury sympathies at the trial for murdering their parents maybe we can win one for the side of Truth, Justice and the American Way.
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