View Full Version : Beauprex part II. Just couldn't let it be
Great-Kazoo
09-28-2014, 18:47
NOOO while trying to woo independents to voting R come november. We had hoped the R's would keep pressing jobs, economy, independence from middle eastern oil etc.
http://www.denverpost.com/election2014/ci_26619487/bob-beauprez-says-he-would-adhere-conservative-principles#disqus_thread
Lets see how many don't mark BB for governor. There goes his false 3=4pt lead .
I voted for hickenlooper on a telephone pole today. Think it was rasmussin.
They call me, I screw with them. I hate polls and their potential influence on who turns out for elections.
buffalobo
09-28-2014, 19:57
I am one of those "independents" and think BB has done a surprisingly good job of getting my attention and presenting a case to convince me to vote for him. A year ago it was "not a chance in hell", today it is likely, not a lock but likely. The Colorado Republican Party needs to avoid stepping on it's own dick and keep Ryan Call locked in a closet somewhere for another 6 weeks.
Great-Kazoo
09-28-2014, 20:10
I am one of those "independents" and think BB has done a surprisingly good job of getting my attention and presenting a case to convince me to vote for him. A year ago it was "not a chance in hell", today it is likely, not a lock but likely. The Colorado Republican Party needs to avoid stepping on it's own dick and keep Ryan Call locked in a closet somewhere for another 6 weeks.
If only they could.
buffalobo
09-28-2014, 20:22
I don't think the linked article was damaging to BB campaign but any commentary or appearance by Ryan Call will be a deal breaker for me.
If Beauprez and the other Republicans do well and become the majority in state legislature they must, during the term, clean out the scumbags, avoid the perception of nepotism and good ol' boys club and listen to those who voted for them.
Aloha_Shooter
09-29-2014, 12:35
1. Win the election.
2. Reverse the crappy laws passed since 2012.
3. Clean house in the Republican Party.
IN THAT ORDER.
Don't forget...pass a whole ton of shitty laws the liberals hate, don't listen to a word they say and piss all over them when you are done.
1. Win the election.
2. Reverse the crappy laws passed since 2012.
3. Clean house in the Republican Party, with a coat hanger.
IN THAT ORDER.
Too much?
Being pro gun will help him, but he needs to STFU about gays, religion and rolling back marijuana laws if he wants a chance.
That's advise every republican needs to follow.
Don't forget...pass a whole ton of shitty laws the liberals hate, don't listen to a word they say and piss all over them when you are done.
AHAHAH, wouldn't that be poetic justice. And when people start getting pissed off, they can just say "hey, you assholes did the same to us, how do you like it?"
That's advise every republican needs to follow.
Amen
brianakell
09-30-2014, 18:24
Being pro gun will help him, but he needs to STFU about gays, religion and rolling back marijuana laws if he wants a chance.
https://www.ar-15.co/images/smilies/anim_mad.gif
Yay, hes an idiot. While I have no use for MJ, I also have no reason to outlaw a plant. And the BIG picture, THE PEOPLE VOTED FOR IT!
Same as the gay thing, marry a tree, I dont care. And again, THE PEOPLE VOTED FOR IT.
Religion, yay, there's a winner every time.
So he's just presenting the fact that he doesnt care what the people in the state want is what I see. If he mentions this crap anymore, he's already lost. Ill vote for him, since a small turd is better than a large one, but this is completely idiotic cranial rectal inversion.
Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter https://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.ar-15.co/showthread.php?p=1730575#post1730575)
1. Win the election.
2. Reverse the crappy laws passed since 2012.
3. Clean house in the Republican Party, with a coat hanger.
IN THAT ORDER.
Too much?
I see what you did there.
It would be great if he just pointed out how poorly this state has been managed, the outside $$$ that influences our politicians and he will listen to the people!
TEAMRICO
09-30-2014, 20:31
Hold up a pound of 80/20 hamburger and a gallon of gas and ask folks if they remember what they cost before Dems ran the show in 2007!!
The piece seemed to be about BB. He's not going to change who he is, and we'd go nuts if he did trying to be accommodating.
The piece seemed to be about BB. He's not going to change who he is, and we'd go nuts if he did trying to be accommodating.
Let us not overlook where the article was reported.
Hickenlooper or Beauprez
Those are your choices gents. Perfect? Nope, but is it really a hard decision?
muddywings
10-01-2014, 10:40
http://news.yahoo.com/colorado-governor-s-race--hickenlooper-vs--beauprez-022039799.html;_ylt=A0SO8w7PLSxUTzMABIJXNyoA;_ylu= X3oDMTEzOHMzNmlzBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dG lkA1ZJUDUyOV8x?pt=Array
if you want to read some more...but for me TL;DR-AKWIAVF (already know who I am voting for)
SamuraiCO
10-01-2014, 11:32
Not the best choice but better than Hick. Same for national races. With Dingy Harry taking out the fillibuster the Dems have appointed appeals judges in all levels to swing the control of those courts in the Dem side. That means more courts like the 9th circuit. If something happens to swing the Supreme Court we could move back many of the rulings that have begun to swing our freedom back in favor of the people.
I lkie the milk and gas idea. Would speak loudly. Also can't bring up Obamacare enough especially as wages have been flat because of increasing costs assoiated with Obamacare.
battle_sight_zero
10-01-2014, 18:44
https://www.ar-15.co/images/smilies/anim_mad.gif
Yay, hes an idiot. While I have no use for MJ, I also have no reason to outlaw a plant. And the BIG picture, THE PEOPLE VOTED FOR IT!
Same as the gay thing, marry a tree, I dont care. And again, THE PEOPLE VOTED FOR IT.
Religion, yay, there's a winner every time.
So he's just presenting the fact that he doesnt care what the people in the state want is what I see. If he mentions this crap anymore, he's already lost. Ill vote for him, since a small turd is better than a large one, but this is completely idiotic cranial rectal inversion.
People did not vote for Gay marriage rights in Colorado . In fact the last time this came up here it was a no. State was boycotted etc.
Zundfolge
10-01-2014, 20:20
People did not vote for Gay marriage rights in Colorado . In fact the last time this came up here it was a no. State was boycotted etc.
Hell the people of California voted against gay marriage. Doesn't matter, we're no longer a republic we're an administrative state and as such the judges are now our kings.
I'm voting for "that guy who isn't Hickenlooper"
Why the anyone here would even consider otherwise is a complete mystery to me.
Aaaand he's out of the runnings
http://www.denverpost.com/election2014/ci_26644448/beauprezs-iud-remark-debate-generates-controversy?source=googlenews&google_editors_picks=true
"IUD is an abortifacient," he said at The Denver Post's gubernatorial debate Tuesday, labeling the contraceptive as a drug that causes abortions.
Great-Kazoo
10-04-2014, 14:51
Aaaand he's out of the runnings
http://www.denverpost.com/election2014/ci_26644448/beauprezs-iud-remark-debate-generates-controversy?source=googlenews&google_editors_picks=true
Almost. IF the left & D's play it up.
While on the other side. NOT seizing upon Hicks commercial where he is in a restaurant / bar serving food. then using the same commercial with someone saying. One would think John Hickenlooper would want to be as far away as possible using any restaurant to remind voters how good a job he's doing. Especially after one of his employees, an illegal worker killed Officer Donny Young.
Is this the kind of person you'd want to re-elect as governor?
Slapps74
10-05-2014, 23:17
I have to agree BB is not the best choice. I don't understand why the abortion thing comes up every single voting season. Stop beating the dead horse. And a lot of the old "R" are just out of touch like the article said. As far as MJ & Gay marriage, I give a crap less what you smoke or put up your ass as long as it doesn't affect me or mine. I think there are more pressing issues that need to have some energy and effort put into them other than this.
Bailey Guns
10-06-2014, 08:22
I don't think the Denver Post article in the OP was damaging to Beauprez at all. As a matter of fact, it may help solidify his conservative base.
And I still can't understand why so many of you have such a hard-on for conservative politicians who say they are personally against abortion. It boggles my mind since that's pretty much a baseline for personal, conservative values. So he's against abortion? So what? No where did he say he was going to work to change what has effectively (and erroneously) been deemed the law of the land since Roe v Wade. If you don't understand conservatives are driven by a more strict moral code and system of personal values than progressives you really haven't been paying attention.
The comments in this thread continue to remind me of the "he's not the perfect candidate so I'm not voting for him" mentality that causes conservatives and/or republicans to lose political races in Colorado. It's infuriating that people who know better will trash a true conservative like Beauprez but idolize a guy like Ron Paul as "morally pure"...a libertarian who's so pure he doesn't even have the stones to run as the libertarian he is.
Beauprez is a pro-gun, strongly conservative candidate that has openly stated he will work to overturn the 2013 gun laws. He's pro-business and for shrinking government influence in our lives. If that's not enough for you guys, we're really in trouble.
There really is only one choice on the ballot assuming you're not a flaming progressive. If you can't see that choice clearly you need to see an eye doctor.
Solidifying conservative base is stupid and a waste of time. Conservatives sure as hell aren't going to be voting for Hickenlooper. If he wants any chance at winning this, he needs to get more people from the middle or left side to support him. And saying stupid shit like that is only going to drive them away. I know because I'm a middle of the road guy.
Right now I'm leaning strongly to Mathew Hess. (http://www.matthewhess.org/the-issues/)
OneGuy67
10-06-2014, 09:57
Voting for the third party candidate will only suck votes from Bob and we will have another four years of the chickenlooper. Great plan.
Firehaus
10-06-2014, 10:19
You might was as well just vote for Hick! It's the same thing voting for a conservative third party.
Sent from my iPhone
HoneyBadger
10-06-2014, 10:33
Right now I'm leaning strongly to Mathew Hess. (http://www.matthewhess.org/the-issues/)
That's dandy, but have you learned NOTHING in the past 4 years?? C'mon man...
Zundfolge
10-06-2014, 11:24
Libertarians and "moderates" are the Hipsters of politics ... they really don't care if the world goes to hell in a hand-basket just as long as they get to put a bumper sticker on their car that says; "Don't Blame Me! I voted for [candidate you've never heard of]"
Solidifying conservative base is stupid and a waste of time. Conservatives sure as hell aren't going to be voting for Hickenlooper.
This is the stupidity that is running the GOP into the ground. No conservatives are not going to vote for Hick, but if you don't speak to the conservative base the conservatives sit the fuck home. Like in 2008, like in 2012.
Not solidifying the conservative base is a good way for Republicans to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory (something they are exceedingly good at nationally and something they've absolutely mastered here in Colorado).
So he's against abortion? So what? No where did he say he was going to work to change what has effectively (and erroneously) been deemed the law of the land since Roe v Wade. If you don't understand conservatives are driven by a more strict moral code and system of personal values than progressives you really haven't been paying attention.
^^^^ Yes!
The left continues to create division on an issue that was determined by the Supreme Court in 1973. Yes people are going to continue to be divided on this issue, but is it really a key issue? NO!!! We had both pro-life and pro-choice elected officials in all forms of elected office since 1973? Has it really ****ing mattered in the grand scheme of things? NO!. This is by far the most stupid campaign issue being pushed by the left to divide their competition, and we are stupid as hell for falling for it. There are pro-life and pro-choice people against Hickenlooper, and it seems as though we could unite on the issues that REALLY mater!
Zundfolge
10-06-2014, 13:33
And for all you in the "Republicans need to shut up about Abortion" crowd ... it doesn't matter what Republicans do the Democrats will still hammer pro-lifers as evil ... even to the point of lying about them.
http://www.factcheck.org/2014/09/abortion-distortions-2014/
Nobody should be allowed to tell someone else that they cannot have an abortion. It's THEIR life.
Hickenlooper has already screwed over gun owners, there's nothing more he's going to be able to do to upset us. I'm not going to vote for someone who thinks it's okay to take someone else's rights away on the slim chance that maybe they might undo the stuff Hick did that I don't like.
That's dandy, but have you learned NOTHING in the past 4 years?? C'mon man...
You mean when Dan Maes refused to back out of the race, even those the independent had a drastic lead over him, so the Republicans got Hickenlooper elected by splitting the vote between a conservative candidate and a douche?
Zundfolge
10-06-2014, 14:37
Nobody should be allowed to tell someone else that they cannot have an abortion. It's THEIR life.
I don't want to turn this into a debate about abortion because those never go well, but for many of us (according to Gallop possibly more than half the country) there is functionally no difference between aborting a fetus and blowing your 5 year old's brains out with a shotgun.
The life in a pregnant woman is NOT her life, its a separate and independent life with its own DNA.
Pretending that this is a non issue and pro-lifers should just shut up and go-along-to-get-along is asinine. It makes as much sense as telling gun owners to shut up and stop putting our toys ahead of the lives of their children.
Hickenlooper has already screwed over gun owners, there's nothing more he's going to be able to do to upset us. I'm not going to vote for someone who thinks it's okay to take someone else's rights away on the slim chance that maybe they might undo the stuff Hick did that I don't like.
If Hick stays the laws he signed will never be repealed. Period. If Hick stays he'll be encouraged to pass more gun laws.
but for many of us (according to Gallop possibly more than half the country) there is functionally no difference between aborting a fetus and blowing your 5 year old's brains out with a shotgun.
Just because it's the majority doesn't mean they aren't functionally retarded.
The life in a pregnant woman is NOT her life, its a separate and independent life with its own DNA.
And if that kid is born and the parent can't support them, then we have more of those welfare babies everyone cries about.
If Hick stays the laws he signed will never be repealed. Period. If Hick stays he'll be encouraged to pass more gun laws.
No it doesn't. Hick won't be governor forever, and laws can be repealed many years after they're created. Prohibition was a constitutional fucking amendment, requiring a lot more agreement between the states, and it lasted 13 years before it was repealed.
Zundfolge
10-06-2014, 15:06
Just because it's the majority doesn't mean they aren't functionally retarded.
Believing that murdering children is evil and wrong is retarded?
And if that kid is born and the parent can't support them, then we have more of those welfare babies everyone cries about.
So we should be able to murder poor children? Or for that matter poor people?
No it doesn't. Hick won't be governor forever, and laws can be repealed many years after they're created. Prohibition was a constitutional fucking amendment, requiring a lot more agreement between the states, and it lasted 13 years before it was repealed.
If we don't get the gun laws repealed in the next couple of years there will be no momentum to get them repealed ... I suspect that unless they're repealed real soon they're going to start enforcing them too. You sound like your typical California Republican a few years ago, now look at the place ... those people will never see their rights restored with anything short of civil war.
Nobody should be allowed to tell someone else that they cannot have an abortion. It's THEIR life.
Speaking as someone that was given up for adoption, no, it's not just the mother's life. Thank God the concept of abortion wasn't so desensitized in women in past generations.
If fewer American children were aborted, Americans wouldn't have to seek out so many adoptable children in China, Russia, etc.
It's just this lump of expendable tissue's 2 cents on the matter.
Splitting the vote is a sure way to lose.
Sent from my electronic leash.
Nobody should be allowed to tell someone else that they cannot have an abortion. It's THEIR life.
Hickenlooper has already screwed over gun owners, there's nothing more he's going to be able to do to upset us. I'm not going to vote for someone who thinks it's okay to take someone else's rights away on the slim chance that maybe they might undo the stuff Hick did that I don't like.
What you are really saying is that you don't agree with another person's belief system; the law is decided and it matters not what the candidate for governor believes on this issue. You need to understand that “THEIR life” is what others believe about the child, and they feel just as strongly as you do about rights. We have no greater right then to protect our own life something the child is denied. However, I learned long ago that this issue is not a legislative issue, and only a constitutional amendment will change what is already established law. I also learned long ago that those who abort their children will need to deal with their own demons, which is not my responsibility so I don't even bother to look at this issue on each candidate one way or the other because it really doesn't matter. Yes, I feel very strongly about what I believe, but I have enough sense to realize the reality of the situation.
Give me one thing the Governor can actually do on this issue that will make any significant change? Does your candidate have to believe exactly the way you believe? If so, good luck finding a majority of people who believe exactly the way you believe.
I find it astonishing that moderates and conservatives would rather resign themselves to incremental socialism then unite. Think about it; this issue is put front and center by the left every election for the only purpose of creating conversations just like this; it creates division. They would love for their opposition to vote third party.
As far as Hickenlooper can no longer do anything. [bs]
I'm not going to vote for someone who thinks it's okay to take someone else's rights away on the slim chance that maybe they might undo the stuff Hick did that I don't like. ....but you think it is OK to keep somebody in office who took our rights and is affiliated nationally with those who want to take more?
Zundfolge
10-06-2014, 15:58
I find it astonishing that moderates and conservatives would rather resign themselves to incremental socialism then unite. Think about it; this issue is put front and center by the left every election for the only purpose of creating conversations just like this; it creates division. They would love for their opposition to vote third party.
I agree, we need to come together and defeat the left and THEN we can argue over issues like infanticide and buggery.
The mistake you are all making is assuming that I am anti abortion. I'm not. I think it should be an option for those who want it.
You don't want an abortion? Don't have one. This doesn't make them mandatory.
The mistake you are all making is assuming that I am anti abortion. I'm not. I think it should be an option for those who want it.
You don't want an abortion? Don't have one. This doesn't make them mandatory.
I understand your devotion to self-determination. Abortion is a complex issue because it is not just a women deciding to have a baby or not. It is also determining whether a person lives or not. The choice is not just of herself but somebody else. The only time I can make this type of choice is in a self-defense scenario.
But, in all honesty, does this complex issue have any bearing on the race for governor other than personal belief?
I agree, we need to come together and defeat the left and THEN we can argue over issues like infanticide and buggery.
Abortion along with other social issues won't be decided in a legislature; they are a reflection of our society. I truly believe that if a society can't make the connection of an unborn's life and soul, the consequences will determine the course of that society. However, people need to make these determinations for themselves; this can't be done in law.
68Charger
10-06-2014, 18:45
The mistake you are all making is assuming that I am anti abortion. I'm not. I think it should be an option for those who want it.
You don't want an abortion? Don't have one. This doesn't make them mandatory.
you trust the emotional state of a 16yo girl with the fate of an unborn child? (without a requirement for them to consult a parent?) many of the women seeking abortion are emoting rather than thinking rationally... but the Left would prefer ZERO consultation before "abortion on demand"... they seem to want to kill as many children as possible- this is along the same lines of the Agenda 21...
I understand your devotion to self-determination. Abortion is a complex issue because it is not just a women deciding to have a baby or not. It is also determining whether a person lives or not. The choice is not just of herself but somebody else. The only time I can make this type of choice is in a self-defense scenario.
But, in all honesty, does this complex issue have any bearing on the race for governor other than personal belief?
This is the base of it- a selfish issue (I want to fuck whoever I want and not have any consequences), vs the rights of the unborn child
This issue is close to my heart, as my oldest could have technically been killed by a 2nd term abortion... but she has no complications from her birth at "26 weeks"
Abortion along with other social issues won't be decided in a legislature; they are a reflection of our society. I truly believe that if a society can't make the connection of an unborn's life and soul, the consequences will determine the course of that society. However, people need to make these determinations for themselves; this can't be done in law.
And this is really how I look at it- I vote how I feel and you vote how you feel... if the "moral compass" of society goes in the toilet, it's an indicator...
as one person trying to care for my own family, I can't have a significant influence on others, I just try to raise my children right.
If society decays, it's outside my control, and it's just another sign of the end...
68Charger
10-06-2014, 18:50
Just to follow up- I believe we were born into a world at war... it's good vs evil.. chose a side. I believe that abortion is on a clear side... believe what you want to believe. but I know you're choosing a side.
I don't like abortion personally. I definitely know one 16 year-old that shouldn't talk to her parents about anything. I know another person who has had more than one abortion, and each time I'm honestly relieved. She's hardly fit to parent the kids she has already. The statement about seeking abortion emotionally is absolutely true. Unfortunately, it's also true for adoption, and I think a lot of people who probably should give babies up for adoption don't for similar emotional reasons.
All that aside, I'm growing tired of hearing "...even in the case of rape or incest," at the end of every other statement concerning abortion. How the baby got there is irrelevant to the decision to abort. You are either terminating a pregnancy, and killing a baby, or your aren't. Rape or incest make zero difference at all.
68Charger
10-06-2014, 19:15
One of the major sticking points on abortion is information- are you for or against informing women seeking an aborting getting more information?
Liberals are clearly AGAINST... just kill the little bastard and be done with it... EVERY attempt by the right to require ANY amount of education to potential abortionists (not sure if that's the right term), is greatly opposed.. information is BAD when you're dealing with an emotional woman that has been betrayed by the man she's slept with... or chooses this as a form of "birth control"
I'd rather see a system of support with options... the left would prefer a blanket "kill that POS".
This is how I see it, based on observations that I've attempted to do from a objective viewpoint...
whatever winds up as public policy is simply an indicator of the moral decay of society... I try not to judge people, but when a society has lead down an amoral path, the end is just a matter of time IMHO...
Providing info is the same issue with labeling GMO foods. Buyer beware. Not the government's job.
One of the major sticking points on abortion is information- are you for or against informing women seeking an aborting getting more information?
Liberals are clearly AGAINST... just kill the little bastard and be done with it... EVERY attempt by the right to require ANY amount of education to potential abortionists (not sure if that's the right term), is greatly opposed.. information is BAD when you're dealing with an emotional woman that has been betrayed by the man she's slept with... or chooses this as a form of "birth control"
I'd rather see a system of support with options... the left would prefer a blanket "kill that POS".
This is how I see it, based on observations that I've attempted to do from a objective viewpoint...
whatever winds up as public policy is simply an indicator of the moral decay of society... I try not to judge people, but when a society has lead down an amoral path, the end is just a matter of time IMHO...
Conversely, there are 24 states who require the mother to see an ultrasound, which of course makes it harder for them to go with an abortion they might have been planning, because emotions.
mcantar18c
10-06-2014, 20:06
I saw my baby's heartbeat at 5 or 6 weeks. In my opinion, as soon as the egg is fertilized, it's a developing (living) human being. So the question for me isn't "when does life start," but rather "when is it ok to kill?"
For me, incest is justifiable, but that's about it.
I saw my baby's heartbeat at 5 or 6 weeks. In my opinion, as soon as the egg is fertilized, it's a developing (living) human being. So the question for me isn't "when does life start," but rather "when is it ok to kill?"
For me, incest is justifiable, but that's about it.
And then you have the option to not have an abortion. The point is about options. Not everyone feels the same way.
On one side you have women of child-bearing age that might be concerned about their reproductive rights. That certainly isn't the majority. Although you'd get that impression from the left in the commercials with the incessant lamentations that the Republicans practically want to take your uterus away from you.
There are so many issues where our government is screwed up, we really don't need to get sidetracked by hot-button issues. Not much of what is being bantered back and forth is really a priority.
Although you'd get that impression from the left in the commercials with the incessant lamentations that the Republicans practically want to take your uterus away from you.
Considering that being pro-life basically means taking a woman's uterus' rights away from them, it's hard to see otherwise.
Considering that being pro-life basically means taking a woman's uterus' rights away from them, it's hard to see otherwise.
By making that statement, the converse is if you're pro-abortion it basically means you're going to take a woman's unborn child out of their uterus.
That's a stupid statement and you're probably just saying it to keep the argument running. It's hard to see otherwise.
Personal beliefs don't equate to forcing your will on others.
I'm not pro abortion. I'm pro CHOICE
There is no choice in pro life. It's an all out ban on abortion.
I'm Pro Choice. Choose to be responsible for your actions. It's called maturity.
Don't want to create children, then make other choices.
Some people want other people to bear the burden of their poor choices. I choose to defend the most helpless in our society.
But this really isn't about the life of the unborn to me. The governor's race is about whether we, the citizens of Colorado are happy with our current governor and look forward to what he has indicated he will do with another term in office or whether we would like to make a different choice and give another person a chance to be a better governor. It just isn't a difficult choice for me.
See, I said I was Pro Choice... I choose to send Hick packing. [Flower]
68Charger
10-06-2014, 22:59
I'm not pro abortion. I'm pro CHOICE
There is no choice in pro life. It's an all out ban on abortion.
Typical liberal argument- go to the extreme.. yet you already said enough to make it clear you're against ANY level of education... because that's playing on her emotions...
you say you're about choices, but you don't want them to be EDUCATED choices... just get rid of the little parasite... I didn't like his father anyway.
Your actions (just like those of liberals) devalue life...
I'm actually ok with choice- that's even (at least somewhat) biblical...
Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is constructive. 24 Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. 1 Corinthians 10:23-24
but what the left does is just plain criminal, and could be argued as racist- since far more abortions are performed on certain ethnic groups than "rich white folk"
And the line is- your right to chose does not include murder- killing me, my children... so where do you draw that line? at birth? my oldest daughter was born at an estimated 26 weeks (last week of the 2nd trimester), weighing 1Lb, 14oz.. she is perfectly healthy today, and 18 years old. Many liberals would have made it a crime to stop her mother from killing her.
you're choosing a side- evil is evil.. sometimes it disguises itself, but it is still evil.
ETA: NO governor elected will be able to overturn Roe vs Wade... so they cannot BAN abortion in Colorado. but the left would like to brainwash moderates to believe Beauprez can.
Ridge
It is not my purpose to challenge you on the abortion issue. It really should be a separate discussion. However, I am challenging your view point on this election. When Bill Owens was governor, his views made no difference on the legality of abortion, and the outcome of this race will make no difference on the legality of abortion. It is a non-issue for this election. However, the 12 years of Lamb and the 12 years of Romer made a huge difference on the court system in this state. The Dems successfully changed the districting map in 2000 complete with gerrymandered districts, and upheld in the 2010 redistricting process. The change in districting set the state for complete left control and the passage of gun laws in 2013. The gun issue put Colorado front and center nationally. If Colorado lets Hickenlooper get away with his lies and actions, it will be disastrous for us. It means the left lost a few battles but won the war. Hickenlooper has little regard for people in this state as evidenced by his subversion during the highway 36 privatization and subsequent veto of the transparency bill. His continued use of non-bid contracts in OIT is also extremely alarming not to mention the Chucky Cheese killer. He needs to be removed from office, badly. If you don't like Beauprex, fine...vote him out in four years; but help get rid of Hickelooper. Hickenlooper is by far the most disastrous governor in this state's history, and he needs to go. If you listen to the state troopers that quit his security detail because of his actions and disrespectful words, you would get a pretty good picture of this man as a person.
Edit: I have a libertarian friend who feels pretty much the same as you and generally votes third party because he is one of the people of the mindset that wants to break the two party system. He is voting Beauprex for one purpose; to remove Hickenlooper from office. His words are this. "Hickenlooper's removal is the most important issue in this election, and there is only one way to do it."
Typical liberal argument- go to the extreme.. yet you already said enough to make it clear you're against ANY level of education... because that's playing on her emotions...
you say you're about choices, but you don't want them to be EDUCATED choices... just get rid of the little parasite... I didn't like his father anyway.
Your actions (just like those of liberals) devalue life...
I'm actually ok with choice- that's even (at least somewhat) biblical...
1 Corinthians 10:23-24
but what the left does is just plain criminal, and could be argued as racist- since far more abortions are performed on certain ethnic groups than "rich white folk"
And the line is- your right to chose does not include murder- killing me, my children... so where do you draw that line? at birth? my oldest daughter was born at an estimated 26 weeks (last week of the 2nd trimester), weighing 1Lb, 14oz.. she is perfectly healthy today, and 18 years old. Many liberals would have made it a crime to stop her mother from killing her.
you're choosing a side- evil is evil.. sometimes it disguises itself, but it is still evil.
ETA: NO governor elected will be able to overturn Roe vs Wade... so they cannot BAN abortion in Colorado. but the left would like to brainwash moderates to believe Beauprez can.
^^^This
That is awesome!
If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. But it's not fair to force your morals on to everyone else, and I refuse to vote for someone who would do so.
I'm very glad your daughter is alive and well, Charger. But I feel it's the right of the parents to make the decision as to whether or not they will be able to care for their future child. They should be allowed every option possible.
If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. But it's not fair to force your morals on to everyone else, and I refuse to vote for someone who would do so.
I'm very glad your daughter is alive and well, Charger. But I feel it's the right of the parents to make the decision as to whether or not they will be able to care for their future child. They should be allowed every option possible.
And the award for worst argument ever goes to the man under the pony!
"fair"[ROFL1]
So I guess it is OK to rape that little girl at the bus stop because I want to?
I should be able to steal that nice car next door because I want it?
Morals are where laws originate. They're what separates us from animals.
"fair" [ROFL1]
And the award for worst argument ever goes to the man under the pony!
"fair"[ROFL1]
So I guess it is OK to rape that little girl at the bus stop because I want to?
I should be able to steal that nice car next door because I want it?
Morals are where laws originate. They're what separates us from animals.
"fair" [ROFL1]
Wow, talk about terrible arguments. Comparing rights to sexual assault of a minor.
Yes, people travel to distant lands to adopt kids.. it's true!
Meanwhile there are over 250,000 children here in the US in foster care that go unadopted. The issue here is that everyone wants the perfect baby. Crack heads that get pregnant and cannot get an abortion will not produce the perfect baby. They will produce a child with an unlimited number of defects, deformities and health issues that no one in the US wants to touch with a 9 ft pole. Never mind the kids that will be born into segments of society that will only lead them to the path of poverty, welfare and crime.
I'd be happy to support the idea that abortion be made illegal as long as everyone that votes for that stance also votes for the fact that our taxes will be increased to cover the costs that will undeniably increase to cover the thousands of unwanted babies that will be produced each year and the additional aspect of monetary and societal loss due to crime and incarceration in years to come.
At what point does the "minor" attain the right to not be murdered?
If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. But it's not fair to force your morals on to everyone else, and I refuse to vote for someone who would do so.
You haven't answered the question. How will the governor of Colorado force his beliefs "morals" relating to abortion on anyone?
The one unique attribute of a moderate is the ability to look at both sides of an issue. For a self proclaimed moderate, you seem very close minded about other people's views. When determining rights, you don't recognize the right of the child in your equation but other people do. Recognizing the rights of unborn child doesn't necessarily make it a "moral" or religious issue. To truly be a moderate as you suggest, you may conclude with your own point of view but you would at least make an attempt to acknowledge another viewpoint as well as not be so dismissive of those who have them.
Bailey Guns
10-07-2014, 10:26
The mistake you are all making is assuming that I am anti abortion. I'm not. I think it should be an option for those who want it.
You don't want an abortion? Don't have one. This doesn't make them mandatory.
The mistake you're making is assuming that because a person, in particular a republican candidate for office, states he/she is pro-life that they're going to go on a crusade to overturn what's been established law for decades.
Another simple concept you can't seem to wrap your head around is that conservatives are different from progressives. I have to shake my head in wonder how so many people on this forum piss and moan about republicans being "democrat lite" and not conservative enough. Then when a true conservative comes along they piss and moan because the candidate articulates conservative values like a pro-life stance or being against gay marriage.
WTF? You can't have it both ways.
And then we have the "independents" or "middle of the road" types who don't really know where they stand. And I have news for you, Ridge...you're not middle of the road on this issue. You've made your stance clear which is solidly a leftist stance. Especially when you frame your position as pro "choice". That's liberal-speak for pro-abortion. Liberals are pro-choice as long as everyone chooses to believe abortion is OK.
At what point does the "minor" attain the right to not be murdered?
I'll go with "when they can vocalize dissatisfaction.
You haven't answered the question. How will the governor of Colorado force his beliefs "morals" relating to abortion on anyone?
No body would have ever thought that a Governor could force his beliefs on the populace in regards to the 2nd Amendment and the death penalty as well.
You haven't answered the question. How will the governor of Colorado force his beliefs "morals" relating to abortion on anyone?
The one unique attribute of a moderate is the ability to look at both sides of an issue. For a self proclaimed moderate, you seem very close minded about other people's views. When determining rights, you don't recognize the right of the child in your equation but other people do. Recognizing the rights of unborn child doesn't necessarily make it a "moral" or religious issue. To truly be a moderate as you suggest, you may conclude with your own point of view but you would at least make an attempt to acknowledge another viewpoint as well as not be so dismissive of those who have them.
Through legislation and back handed tactics, just like states like Texas and Louisiana have, usually by making it so abortion clinics have to have full ER capabilities in place in order to keep their doors open.
hurley842002
10-07-2014, 10:35
I'll go with "when they can vocalize dissatisfaction.
That's pretty effin sick right there, I don't care what side of the fence you stand on.
No body would have ever thought that a Governor could force his beliefs on the populace in regards to the 2nd Amendment and the death penalty as well.
The governor holding the death sentence in accordance with state statute is not a constitutional issue. There is no clear established precedent regarding background checks and mag limits in the Heller decision. Roe vs. Wade is very clear with regard to the legality of abortion. Neither of your examples has any application to the established legality of abortion.
Through legislation and back handed tactics, just like states like Texas and Louisiana have, usually by making it so abortion clinics have to have full ER capabilities in place in order to keep their doors open.
Regulating abortion clinics doesn't change the legality of abortion itself. For these examples to happen, it would first need to make it through the legislature. When Bill Owens was governor with a Republican legislature, the legislature tried but failed to remove funding from Planned Parenthood. These regulations would be extremely difficult to pass in Colorado regardless of who is elected.
I'll go with "when they can vocalize dissatisfaction.
Points for creativity, but still a failure.
Bailey Guns
10-07-2014, 10:54
No body would have ever thought that a Governor could force his beliefs on the populace in regards to the 2nd Amendment and the death penalty as well.
He didn't force his beliefs on the populace. In regards to the 2A issues, the legislature sent him a bill(s) which he signed. That's how the legislative process works. That's also why it's important to say again, party ALWAYS trumps person. In regards to Dunlap he used executive privilege. Having said that, democrats are likely to pay dearly (more so than they have already) for those decisions, as they should.
FFS...it's like basic civics and government is rocket science.
Bailey Guns
10-07-2014, 10:56
Solidifying conservative base is stupid and a waste of time. Conservatives sure as hell aren't going to be voting for Hickenlooper. If he wants any chance at winning this, he needs to get more people from the middle or left side to support him. And saying stupid shit like that is only going to drive them away. I know because I'm a middle of the road guy.
Right now I'm leaning strongly to Mathew Hess. (http://www.matthewhess.org/the-issues/)
For a guy who's thrown the words "stupid" and "retarded" around about others in this thread I'd have to say this is about the most stupid and retarded thing that's been posted in this thread.
Solidifying conservative base is stupid and a waste of time. Conservatives sure as hell aren't going to be voting for Hickenlooper. If he wants any chance at winning this, he needs to get more people from the middle or left side to support him. And saying stupid shit like that is only going to drive them away. I know because I'm a middle of the road guy.
Right now I'm leaning strongly to Mathew Hess. (http://www.matthewhess.org/the-issues/)
Have you even bothered to follow the Mathew Hess link?
Doesn't look like he agrees with you:
http://www.matthewhess.org/the-issues/abortion/
Abortion
The official Libertarian Party platform is as follows:
“Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.”
While, like Ron Paul, I can be lumped into the pro-life category on a personal level I also understand the vehement disagreement between both sides. It would be considered hypocritical for me to support the termination of a fetus while espousing the inherent rights endowed to us all. I must also point out my belief that this is a deeply personal issue and each individual must answer to their creator for the choices they have made in life. I am adamantly against using the force of government to push a specific philosophy upon others in addition to using public funding to support either viewpoint.
For those who are interested in a new theory from a property rights perspective I encourage you to take a scholarly look at the concept of evictionism.
68Charger
10-07-2014, 11:32
If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. But it's not fair to force your morals on to everyone else, and I refuse to vote for someone who would do so.
Except the left makes it mandatory for me to pay for them... even if nobody I know chooses to have one. I have serious problems with that.
I'm very glad your daughter is alive and well, Charger. But I feel it's the right of the parents to make the decision as to whether or not they will be able to care for their future child. They should be allowed every option possible.
Forgive me if I doubt your sincerity... the point was that she was able to be born and thrive at a time when it would have been legal to abort her.
You don't think she has any rights until she can at least cry? well she did right after the c-section... is that enough objection for you?
would it have been ok to wait a couple weeks, then do a partial birth abortion- because she would have been unable to cry (because she wasn't allowed to take her first breath before they suck her brains out)
I find that abhorrent, and telling of the moral decay of society- as somebody who stands up for the rights of the innocent (and not just the unborn), I think it's disgusting. I doubt any of this will sway you, just wanted to get that off my chest.
What If I thought it would be legal for me to defend my grandchild from a partial birth abortion- caught the doctor in the middle of the procedure, and shot him dead to save the child's life? He was about to kill a child, and I was defending it.
At what point does the "minor" attain the right to not be murdered
I'll go with "when they can vocalize dissatisfaction.
So as long as someone gags the victim so they can't vocalize their dissatisfaction, then it's ok to murder them? Got it.
Have you even bothered to follow the Mathew Hess link?
Doesn't look like he agrees with you:
http://www.matthewhess.org/the-issues/abortion/
Ridge toes the party line on this issue and I suspect others as well as evidenced by his regulation example of abortion clinics. I agree with Mathew Hess on the funding part; this is probably what bothers me most. It has gone from legal to entitlement status.
I'll go with "when they can vocalize dissatisfaction.
This definition of life would sure suck for somebody who is born mute.
Our 2nd amendment rights are under attack, and the message we send is critical. Twenty years ago, I drove 150 miles a day campaigning to send a message that we weren't going to tolerate it; the work paid off and we were left alone until now. If we let Hickenlooper get away with it based completely on views of abortion with established legal precedent rooted in concrete, then we are pursuing the essence of insanity. Not one of us will get 100% of what we want out of this election, but to not unite behind removing anti-2nd amendment elected officials is crazy especially on an AR15 web forum. Even Pueblo voted out one of their own because of this issue; I imagine the Republican winner didn't reflect the values of a 70%+ Democrat voting district, but at least they understood the significance.
68Charger
10-07-2014, 12:17
I'll go with "when they can vocalize dissatisfaction.
This definition of life would sure suck for somebody who is born mute.
Maybe hand gestures would be sufficient? [pick-me][hammer][fag][Help][fyou](pick one)
HoneyBadger
10-07-2014, 21:50
Considering that being pro-life basically means taking a woman's uterus' rights away from them, it's hard to see otherwise.
This is the most idiotic thing I've ever read. Woman's uterus' rights??? Wtf dude? Forget about the living child inside...
It's all so damn selfish and irresponsible.
HoneyBadger
10-07-2014, 21:54
Edit: I have a libertarian friend who feels pretty much the same as you and generally votes third party because he is one of the people of the mindset that wants to break the two party system. He is voting Beauprex for one purpose; to remove Hickenlooper from office. His words are this. "Hickenlooper's removal is the most important issue in this election, and there is only one way to do it."
I'm a libertarian and this is why I'm voting for Beauprez.
Can anyone tell me how many abortion bills have made it as far as the governor's desk in the last 40 years?
The only reason that politicians and their advertising writers keep bringing it up is to manipulate voters, there is not going to be any change in policy on the issue if "not-Hickenlooper" is elected.
muddywings
10-08-2014, 10:04
At what point does the "minor" attain the right to not be murdered?
I'll go with "when they can vocalize dissatisfaction.
http://youtu.be/p7w64fbqYQY
muddywings
10-08-2014, 10:05
I'm a libertarian and this is why I'm voting for Beauprez.
ditto
Bailey Guns
10-08-2014, 13:48
Yes, people travel to distant lands to adopt kids.. it's true!
Meanwhile there are over 250,000 children here in the US in foster care that go unadopted. The issue here is that everyone wants the perfect baby. Crack heads that get pregnant and cannot get an abortion will not produce the perfect baby. They will produce a child with an unlimited number of defects, deformities and health issues that no one in the US wants to touch with a 9 ft pole. Never mind the kids that will be born into segments of society that will only lead them to the path of poverty, welfare and crime.
I'd be happy to support the idea that abortion be made illegal as long as everyone that votes for that stance also votes for the fact that our taxes will be increased to cover the costs that will undeniably increase to cover the thousands of unwanted babies that will be produced each year and the additional aspect of monetary and societal loss due to crime and incarceration in years to come.
Now if THAT'S not a far left type argument, nothing is. So, what you're advocating as the left almost always does, is that personal responsibility is a non-issue. People choose irresponsible lifestyles and make irresponsible choices so those of us who make responsible decisions and responsible lifestyle choices need to pay for it. That's just awesome....
Furthermore, it seems that most people (or maybe it's just me) don't necessarily want to outlaw abortion. Here's what I want it terms of the abortion issue:
First and foremost I want the left to stop lying about what abortion is and what it isn't. Abortion is not "women's health care". Abortion is killing a living human entity. It's living and it isn't anything other than human even though it isn't developed. A fetus will ALWAYS develop into a human being.
I want the left to stop calling it "pro-choice". Because we all know (all of us but Ridge, apparently) according to the left the only valid choice is abortion. If you choose to vocalize your "choice" against abortion you somehow hate women.
I want the left to stop forcing me, or at least attempting to force me, to pay for abortions through taxes or other entitlement programs.
I want the left to stop demonizing me and others because we believe abortion, under many circumstances, is morally wrong and to stop pretending that because someone is against abortion then naturally they hate women and want to "take away a woman's right to health care".
Basically, I want the left to stop being a bunch of morally bankrupt liars. Good luck with that, right?
Now if THAT'S not a far left type argument, nothing is. So, what you're advocating as the left almost always does, is that personal responsibility is a non-issue. People choose irresponsible lifestyles and make irresponsible choices so those of us who make responsible decisions and responsible lifestyle choices need to pay for it. That's just awesome....
Furthermore, it seems that most people (or maybe it's just me) don't necessarily want to outlaw abortion. Here's what I want it terms of the abortion issue:
First and foremost I want the left to stop lying about what abortion is and what it isn't. Abortion is not "women's health care". Abortion is killing a living human entity. It's living and it isn't anything other than human even though it isn't developed. A fetus will ALWAYS develop into a human being.
I want the left to stop calling it "pro-choice". Because we all know (all of us but Ridge, apparently) according to the left the only valid choice is abortion. If you choose to vocalize your "choice" against abortion you somehow hate women.
I want the left to stop forcing me, or at least attempting to force me, to pay for abortions through taxes or other entitlement programs.
I want the left to stop demonizing me and others because we believe abortion, under many circumstances, is morally wrong and to stop pretending that because someone is against abortion then naturally they hate women and want to "take away a woman's right to health care".
Basically, I want the left to stop being a bunch of morally bankrupt liars. Good luck with that, right?
Agreed.
Great-Kazoo
10-08-2014, 14:30
Interesting the Pro-Choice party is against the death penalty. Oh ,you know that's different. The death penalty is the taking of a human life..............................OK...You lost me when you started talking.
HoneyBadger
10-08-2014, 14:52
Basically, I want the left to stop being a bunch of morally bankrupt liars.
[ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3][ROFL2][ROFL1]
Oh, you're serious?
Now if THAT'S not a far left type argument, nothing is. So, what you're advocating as the left almost always does, is that personal responsibility is a non-issue. People choose irresponsible lifestyles and make irresponsible choices so those of us who make responsible decisions and responsible lifestyle choices need to pay for it. That's just awesome....
Furthermore, it seems that most people (or maybe it's just me) don't necessarily want to outlaw abortion. Here's what I want it terms of the abortion issue:
First and foremost I want the left to stop lying about what abortion is and what it isn't. Abortion is not "women's health care". Abortion is killing a living human entity. It's living and it isn't anything other than human even though it isn't developed. A fetus will ALWAYS develop into a human being.
I want the left to stop calling it "pro-choice". Because we all know (all of us but Ridge, apparently) according to the left the only valid choice is abortion. If you choose to vocalize your "choice" against abortion you somehow hate women.
I want the left to stop forcing me, or at least attempting to force me, to pay for abortions through taxes or other entitlement programs.
I want the left to stop demonizing me and others because we believe abortion, under many circumstances, is morally wrong and to stop pretending that because someone is against abortion then naturally they hate women and want to "take away a woman's right to health care".
Basically, I want the left to stop being a bunch of morally bankrupt liars. Good luck with that, right?
Great post!
Furthermore, it seems that most people (or maybe it's just me) don't necessarily want to outlaw abortion. Here's what I want it terms of the abortion issue:
First and foremost I want the left to stop lying about what abortion is and what it isn't. Abortion is not "women's health care". Abortion is killing a living human entity. It's living and it isn't anything other than human even though it isn't developed. A fetus will ALWAYS develop into a human being.
I want the left to stop calling it "pro-choice". Because we all know (all of us but Ridge, apparently) according to the left the only valid choice is abortion. If you choose to vocalize your "choice" against abortion you somehow hate women.
I want the left to stop forcing me, or at least attempting to force me, to pay for abortions through taxes or other entitlement programs.
I want the left to stop demonizing me and others because we believe abortion, under many circumstances, is morally wrong and to stop pretending that because someone is against abortion then naturally they hate women and want to "take away a woman's right to health care".
I completely agree. The funding issue is probably my biggest frustration with the whole issue closely followed by all the misinformation and the ignorance of those who just accept it.
The core of my political beliefs is self determination that our rights of life and liberty are subject to our own choices EXCEPT when they adversely impact the life and liberty of others. The original intent of our constitution was to protect us from those exceptions. To honor the life and liberty of the unborn child isn’t some horrific plot to undermine the rights of women. When I look at this issue strictly from a rights perspective, I can’t get past the rights of the child as a consideration. The notion of responsibility for the choices made is so foreign today. To even bring this up for debate is blasphemy hence the regurgitation of talking points and misinformation to the tune of no regulation, no public service information, no counseling, no parental notification, no debate on funding; it is entitled health care...end of conversation!
It would sure be nice If it wasn’t publicaly funded and coined as common health care issues.
I want the left to stop forcing me, or at least attempting to force me, to pay for abortions through taxes or other entitlement programs.
I really chafe at the whole entitlement aspect of it as well. Why people should expect free abortions or free contraceptives is beyond me. On the other hand, if the parents really don't want the kid and aren't going to put effort into raising it properly, the cost of an abortion seems like a bargain compared to years of incarceration / welfare / foster care etc that we'll all be footing the bill for. I'm not addressing the moral issue, just the financial.
An issue I have with abortion is it's always presented as a woman issue. I understand that aspect since it's in the woman's body but it takes two to make that baby. If it was consensual, then the choice to abort the baby should be agreed on by both parties. If a female aborts a baby without the father's agreement, how is that not murder?
Maybe this is/has been addressed with the laws. I don't know. It just seems that women are the only ones allowed to voice an opinion on this. Maybe women should just have an extra abortion tax since it's a woman only issue to fund it. I wonder how well that idea would go over.
Maybe women should just have an extra abortion tax since it's a woman only issue to fund it. I wonder how well that idea would go over.
I like it!
What happens when you follow a doctor's advice and it turns out the doctor was wrong and killed your baby for no reason? Sounds a lot like detrimental reliance to me.
Come on now. We all know that abortion was legalized to eliminate the horrors of back-alley abortions.
Thank goodness for the legal and apparently some illegal abortions that were available at Dr. Gosnell's Women's Medical Society clinic in Philadelphia. Thank goodness for the support of all the Pro Choice supporters who defended Dr. Gosnell's ability to provide his services to the many women who sought abortions.
Life is full of choices. Choose wisely or learn the hard way through foolish choices.
Seems as if everyone who supports abortions does so after their own mother chose life. Ironic?
Women's Rights begins with the right of a female fetus to be born.
But I digress. Hickenlooper or Beauprez... Pick a single issue or choose several issues, and the balance against choosing Hickenlooper, at least for me, makes it an easy choice. At least when it comes to the governor of Colorado, I'm Hoping for Change [Flower]
TEAMRICO
10-08-2014, 20:50
http://www.bobbeauprez.com/contribute
Was gonna pick up some ammo in the AM but figured I need to do my part with the funds.
https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/welcome-to-the-new-ussa.jpg
HoneyBadger
10-09-2014, 16:20
http://www.bobbeauprez.com/contribute
Was gonna pick up some ammo in the AM but figured I need to do my part with the funds.
[Beer]
ANADRILL
10-13-2014, 19:52
No body would have ever thought that a Governor could force his beliefs on the populace in regards to the 2nd Amendment and the death penalty as well.
Thats because no one chose to use the 2nd for what it was intended for....protection against a tyrannical government...
Pancho Villa
10-14-2014, 07:45
Now if THAT'S not a far left type argument, nothing is. So, what you're advocating as the left almost always does, is that personal responsibility is a non-issue. People choose irresponsible lifestyles and make irresponsible choices so those of us who make responsible decisions and responsible lifestyle choices need to pay for it. That's just awesome....
Furthermore, it seems that most people (or maybe it's just me) don't necessarily want to outlaw abortion. Here's what I want it terms of the abortion issue:
First and foremost I want the left to stop lying about what abortion is and what it isn't. Abortion is not "women's health care". Abortion is killing a living human entity. It's living and it isn't anything other than human even though it isn't developed. A fetus will ALWAYS develop into a human being.
I want the left to stop calling it "pro-choice". Because we all know (all of us but Ridge, apparently) according to the left the only valid choice is abortion. If you choose to vocalize your "choice" against abortion you somehow hate women.
I want the left to stop forcing me, or at least attempting to force me, to pay for abortions through taxes or other entitlement programs.
I want the left to stop demonizing me and others because we believe abortion, under many circumstances, is morally wrong and to stop pretending that because someone is against abortion then naturally they hate women and want to "take away a woman's right to health care".
Basically, I want the left to stop being a bunch of morally bankrupt liars. Good luck with that, right?
There's a serious disagreement when "life" (in terms of being a human with a full set of rights) begins. Its easy if you're religious, right? Most religions settle on the soul being placed into the zygote at the moment of conception. But certain people disagree that a collection of a few cells qualifies as a human even if it will probably - not always, Baily - develop into a human being.
We recognize that its not a instant thing after birth, after all - kids can't own guns, enter into contracts, etc., because they are not fully developed humans.
I personally think the best place to draw the line is viability, and let Christian charities take the resulting preemies if the mother doesn't want the kid.
I think its pretty shitty to make someone pay for an abortion if they disagree with the thing, though. And I recognize that you don't hate women but have strong beliefs regarding human life and when it begins.
Well this one sure heated up. Being someone who had their first son born while only 19, I've had plenty of time to ponder the ideas of abortion.
The problem most conservatives make while arguing abortion, is that they try to argue it with religion. It doesn't work.(even though I agree with them) You can't expect to sway a person's opinion on it, if they simply aren't religious. The abortion debate can be entirely argued with out the presence of religious customs or writings. The abortion debate usually boils down to whether you think its a life or not. Most sane people realize that as a society, we hold and believe that human life is sacred and should be protected at all costs.
" The fetus feels no pain. " My initial reaction is to say, "BULLSHIT!!" But you don't even need to argue that. You say, " OK! I'll take you to the doctor to receive an epidural from the neck down and put a bullet through your chest. It's OK you see, because you will feel no pain. " They'll usually drop that argument.
"Its the mother's body". No its not. There is a living entity in there that has a different DNA spectrum then that of the mother. There for it is not just the mother's body and you have scientific proof with the different DNA.
"Its not a life, just a clump of cells". Most people will argue that a couple of cells is not a human life, that there is no conscience there, there for it has no right to life and that its not even a life yet. Yet if scientist, in a far of planet on the other side of the galaxy found ONE LIVING CELL, they would proclaim that "They have found life elsewhere in the universe!!"
The simple fact is they can't logically argue the "right to an abortion" and you can argue it using their flavor of logic.. No need to bring religion in it. Once you run down these simple arguments it becomes the end of the pro-killers. After they get beat they usually try to save face and start arguing for population control, which is the TRUE reason for abortion in the first place.... Along with reducing the amount of "black people, infirm, or otherwise, undesirables in this world. "
There's a serious disagreement when "life" (in terms of being a human with a full set of rights) begins. Its easy if you're religious, right? Most religions settle on the soul being placed into the zygote at the moment of conception. But certain people disagree that a collection of a few cells qualifies as a human even if it will probably - not always, Baily - develop into a human being.
We recognize that its not a instant thing after birth, after all - kids can't own guns, enter into contracts, etc., because they are not fully developed humans.
I personally think the best place to draw the line is viability, and let Christian charities take the resulting preemies if the mother doesn't want the kid.
I think its pretty shitty to make someone pay for an abortion if they disagree with the thing, though. And I recognize that you don't hate women but have strong beliefs regarding human life and when it begins.
Wow, that worked out perfect. Didn't see your post until I was done with mine.
You're going to be my case test study.
You obviously agree that a human life is sacred. The problem is don't believe that a fertilized egg is "life" and question when "life" begins.
So what if scientists tomorrow, say they have found a living single cell organism, or even a dead single cell organism on one of Jupiter's moons, and proclaim they have found LIFE elsewhere in the universe? Are you going to say that's not a life?
The year is 2014 in the United States of America. How much ignorance, irresponsibility, or how many failures must occur before an unwanted pregnancy just happens today?
Why is any abortion, especially anything mid second term or later, considered an acceptable way of correcting a mistake made by the sperm and/or egg donors?
How is it that groups of people will send soldiers to far flung places to protect innocents from genocide but many of those same groups of people support and fight for the death of the most innocent and helpless of all human beings right down the street?
I believe that great societies are defined by how they regard the youngest and oldest members of their communities.
We, the non-aborted citizens of the United States of America should defend the right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. Be the voice for those who will be silenced before they have a voice.
The simple fact is they can't logically argue the "right to an abortion" and you can argue it using their flavor of logic.. No need to bring religion in it. Once you run down these simple arguments it becomes the end of the pro-killers. After they get beat they usually try to save face and start arguing for population control, which is the TRUE reason for abortion in the first place.... Along with reducing the amount of "black people, infirm, or otherwise, undesirables in this world. "
How sad that many of the German doctors, when asked how they could perform such horrifying operations on the undesirable in their society during the 1930's and 1940's, pointed to American supporters of eugenics like Margaret Sanger.
Abortion in America was founded in racism. Planned Parenthood has killed more children of color than the Klan or any other white supremist group.
Bailey Guns
10-14-2014, 15:47
There's a serious disagreement when "life" (in terms of being a human with a full set of rights) begins. Its easy if you're religious, right? Most religions settle on the soul being placed into the zygote at the moment of conception. But certain people disagree that a collection of a few cells qualifies as a human even if it will probably - not always, Baily - develop into a human being.
Well, first of all, I'm very conservative but I'm hardly a religious person. Secondly, what will the "collection of a few cells" of a fertilized human egg develop into if it doesn't develop into a human being? I'm really anxious to hear your answer to that. Of course, I suppose it's possible you can argue that the "collection of a few cells" may die before fully developing...but I'm absolutely sure you know that's not what I meant.
We recognize that its not a instant thing after birth, after all - kids can't own guns, enter into contracts, etc., because they are not fully developed humans.
What's not "an instant thing"? A newborn isn't a fully developed human? Well I'd argue that as long as you're capable of learning and discovering new things that some may say you're not fully developed. This argument holds no weight with me because, frankly, it doesn't make sense.
I personally think the best place to draw the line is viability, and let Christian charities take the resulting preemies if the mother doesn't want the kid.
Of course you're entitled to that opinion. But it sounds like you're arguing that when a fetus is "viable" (whenever that is...as far as I know it's not a hard and fast number) that it should be removed from the womb and given to Christian charities to care for. Why should anyone other than the person(s) responsible for making the baby be responsible for it's care? Why draw the line at just abortion when we're talking about raising kids? Why not let society just pay for every mistake people make? Can't care for, or don't want your teenager? Have someone else pay for it. Can't make the rent payment because you spent your money on cigs and booze? No problem...someone else will be made to pay for it.
I don't get line of thinking at all. Frankly, that's part of the problem in America today. There's always someone to pay for the life choices and poor decisions of others. We've made it far too easy to be a deadbeat these days.
I think its pretty shitty to make someone pay for an abortion if they disagree with the thing, though. And I recognize that you don't hate women but have strong beliefs regarding human life and when it begins.
I guess we pretty much agree on this.
The problem most conservatives make while arguing abortion, is that they try to argue it with religion. It doesn't work.(even though I agree with them) You can't expect to sway a person's opinion on it, if they simply aren't religious.
You can lead a horse to water...
Matthew 10:14 (DRA)
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words: going forth out of that house or city shake off the dust from your feet.
Though I agree with your logic.
I think the right is missing out on an opportunity to do the same thing the left does (we should use their tactics against them). Plenty of them would like to see Americans completely disarmed but they're constantly working to chip away at our rights anyway that they can, as they work towards their ultimate goal.
Rather than trying to change everything in one fell swoop, start with something that I think you could get a majority of voters to agree with and use the .gov's own research to back it up.
"In the United States viability presently occurs at approximately 24 weeks of gestational age (Chervenak, L.B. McCullough; Textbook of Perinatal Medicine, 1998)."
A small victory is still a victory.
Secondly, what will the "collection of a few cells" of a fertilized human egg develop into if it doesn't develop into a human being?
A molar pregnancy.
Bailey Guns
10-14-2014, 18:57
A molar pregnancy.
I tried to make it clear I understood that sometimes a pregnancy is terminated for various reasons before the child is born but if the fertilized egg develops normally over the course of time it develops into a human being. That's why I wrote:
Of course, I suppose it's possible you can argue that the "collection of a few cells" may die before fully developing...but I'm absolutely sure you know that's not what I meant.
ETA: Either way, it's still human tissue. It's nothing else other than human tissue.
Great-Kazoo
10-14-2014, 19:14
You're going to be my case test study.
You obviously agree that a human life is sacred. The problem is don't believe that a fertilized egg is "life" and question when "life" begins.
So what if scientists tomorrow, say they have found a living single cell organism, or even a dead single cell organism on one of Jupiter's moons, and proclaim they have found LIFE elsewhere in the universe? Are you going to say that's not a life?
http://news.yahoo.com/surprise-life-discovered-inside-deep-sea-rocks-154052946.html
To scientist, microbes ARE LIFE.
Most people against the Death Penalty, are pro-Choice. How's that work?
http://news.yahoo.com/surprise-life-discovered-inside-deep-sea-rocks-154052946.html
To scientist, microbes ARE LIFE.
Most people against the Death Penalty, are pro-Choice. How's that work?
It doesn't..... Never has.
Of course it can be switched around ......" Most people for the death penalty, are pro-life"
The difference of course is we're talking about innocent life and "guilty" life.
I think the right is missing out on an opportunity to do the same thing the left does (we should use their tactics against them). Plenty of them would like to see Americans completely disarmed but they're constantly working to chip away at our rights anyway that they can, as they work towards their ultimate goal.
Rather than trying to change everything in one fell swoop, start with something that I think you could get a majority of voters to agree with and use the .gov's own research to back it up.
"In the United States viability presently occurs at approximately 24 weeks of gestational age (Chervenak, L.B. McCullough; Textbook of Perinatal Medicine, 1998)."
A small victory is still a victory.
From what I understand, most states ban abortion after 24 weeks which is freaking crazy cause that's 5 months pregnant. I believe there are a few states left that will allow late term abortions and a few ban them after 4 months.
Its pretty sick to think that a 5 month old baby in the womb can have a pair of scissors jammed in the soft spot of its skull and have its brains scrambled. Only a sick m-fer can do something like that.
It doesn't..... Never has.
Of course it can be switched around ......" Most people for the death penalty, are pro-life"
The difference of course is we're talking about innocent life and "guilty" life.
Keywords are so important, liberals always lump them together.
From what I understand, most states ban abortion after 24 weeks which is freaking crazy cause that's 5 months pregnant. I believe there are a few states left that will allow late term abortions and a few ban them after 4 months.
Its pretty sick to think that a 5 month old baby in the womb can have a pair of scissors jammed in the soft spot of its skull and have its brains scrambled. Only a sick m-fer can do something like that.
I agree with you completely but there shouldn't be any states left where late term abortions are legal. In Colorado they keep pushing for personhood which, in my opinion, isn't going to pass anytime soon.
Colorado is one of the few states where a late abortion can be obtained. Outpatient abortion is available up to 26 weeks. In addition, medically indicated termination of pregnancy up to 34 weeks is also an option for conditions such as fetal anomalies, genetic disorder, fetal demise and/or or severe medical problems.
Caithford
10-15-2014, 11:51
IMO, everyone should stop trying to legislate morality.
Life and Death are legal, political, social, religious issues. Defining when one begins and ends must be defined by any society.
I have very strong opinions about this issue, but the strength of my opinion does not entitle me to belittle or disrespect those who disagree with me.
I welcome the conversation and even the argument. I have little use for any politician who will not be forthright in their opinions on things that matter to me. I will respect, even though I may not vote for, a politician who openly disagrees with me rather than a politician who hides or equivocates on issues I feel this strongly about.
What is unlikely is that any legislature will address these issues of Life and Death head on, so the alternative is legislation through judicial action or by referendum. I will choose the vote of the people over the edict of a judge just about every time, even when I am in the minority.
Ridge
"Just because it's the majority doesn't mean they aren't functionally retarded"
Troll much?
Nevermind.
Delete, please.
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