View Full Version : What if all the illegals left?
Very good piece I just read about what would happen if all the illegals in America just went "home"... It's kinda long, but it really is worth it, trust me.
What if the illegals left?
Somebody really did their homework on this one. Best on the subject to present date.
What if 20 Million Illegal Aliens Vacated America?
I, Tina Griego, journalist for the Denver Rocky Mountain News wrote a column titled, "Mexican Visitor's Lament."
I interviewed Mexican journalist Evangelina Hernandez while visiting Denver last week. Hernandez said, "Illegal aliens pay rent, buy groceries, buy clothes. What happens to your country's economy if 20 million people go away?"
Hmmm, I thought, what would happen?
So I did my due diligence, buried my nose as a reporter into the FACTS I found below.
It's a good question... it deserves an honest answer. Over 80% of Americans demand secured borders and illegal migration stopped. But what would happen if all 20 million or more vacated America? The answers I found may surprise you!
In California, if 3.5 million illegal aliens moved back to Mexico, it would leave an extra $10.2 billion to spend on overloaded school systems, bankrupt hospitals and overrun prisons. It would leave highways cleaner, safer and less congested. Everyone could understand one another as English became the dominant language again.
In Colorado, 500,000 illegal migrants, plus their 300,000 kids and grandchilds would move back "home," mostly to Mexico. That would save Colorado an estimated $2 billion (other experts say $7 billion) annually in taxes that pay for schooling, medical, social-services and incarceration costs. It means 12,000 gang members would vanish out of Denver alone.
Colorado would save more than $20 million in prison costs, and the terror that those 7,300 alien criminals set upon local citizens. Denver Officer Don Young and hundreds of Colorado victims would not have suffered death, accidents, rapes and other crimes by illegals.
Denver Public Schools would not suffer a 67% dropout/flunk rate because of thousands of illegal alien students speaking 41 different languages. At least 200,000 vehicles would vanish from our gridlocked cities in Colorado. Denver's 4% unem ployment rate would vanish as our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage.
In Florida, 1.5 million illegals would return the Sunshine State back to America, the rule of law, and English.
In Chicago, Illinois, 2.1 million illegals would free up hospitals, schools, prisons and highways for a safer, cleaner and more crime-free experience.
If 20 million illegal aliens returned 'home,' the U.S. Economy would return to the rule of law. Employers would hire legal American citizens at a living wage. Everyone would pay their fair share of taxes because they wouldn't be working off the books. That would result in an additional $401 billion in IRS income taxes collected annually, and an equal amount for local, state and city coffers.
No more push '1' for Spanish or '2' for English. No more confusion in American schools that now must contend with over 100 languages that degrade the educational system for American kids. Our overcrowded schools would lose more than two million illegal alien kids at a cost of billions in ESL and free breakfasts and lunches.
We would lose 500,000 illegal criminal alien inmates at a cost of more than $1.6 billion annually. That includes 15,000 MS-13 gang members who distribute $130 billion in drugs annually would vacate our country.
In cities like L.A., 20,000 members of the '18th Street Gang' would vanish from our nation. No more Mexican forgery gangs for ID theft from Americans! No more foreign rapists and child molesters!
Losing more than 20 million people would clear up our crowded highways and gridlock. Cleaner air and less drinking and driving American deaths by illegal aliens!
America's economy is drained. Taxpayers are harmed. Employers get rich. Over $80 billion annually wouldn't return to the aliens' home countries by cash transfers. Illegal migrants earned half that money untaxed, which further drains America 's economy which currently suffers an $8.7 trillion debt. $8.7 trillion debt!!!
At least 400,000 anchor babies would not be born in our country, costing us $109 billion per year per cycle. At least 86 hospitals in California, Georgia and Florida would still be operating instead of being bankrupt out of existence because illegals pay nothing via the EMTOLA Act. Americans wouldn't suffer thousands of TB and hepatitis cases rampant in our country - brought in by illegals unscreened at our borders.
Our cities would see 20 million less people driving, polluting and grid locking our cities. It would also put the 'progressives' on the horns of a dilemma; illegal aliens and their families cause 11% of our greenhouse gases.
Over one million of Mexico's poorest citizens now live inside and along our border from Brownsville, Texas, to San Diego, California, in what the New York Times called, 'colonias' or new neighborhoods. Trouble is, those living areas resemble Bombay and Calcutta where grinding poverty, filth, diseases, drugs, crimes, no sanitation and worse. They live without sewage, clean water, streets, roads, electricity, or any kind of sanitation.
The New York Times reported them to be America's new 'Third World' inside our own country. Within 20 years, at their current growth rate, they expect 20 million residents of those colonials. (I've seen them personally in Texas and Arizona; it's sickening beyond anything you can imagine.)
By enforcing our laws, we could repatriate them back to Mexico. We should invite 20 million aliens to go home, fix their own countries and/or make a better life in Mexico. We already invite a million people into our country legally annually, more than all other countries combined. We cannot and must not allow anarchy at our borders, more anarchy within our borders and growing lawlessness at every level in our nation.
It's time to stand up for our country, our culture, our civilization and our way of life.
Interesting Statistics!
Here are 14 reasons illegal aliens should vacate America, and I hope they are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them:
1. $14 billion to $22 billion dollars are spent each year on welfare to illegal aliens (that's Billion with a 'B')
3. $7.5 billion dollars are spent each year on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
4. $12 billion dollars are spent each year on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they still cannot speak a word of English!
5. $27 billion dollars are spent each year for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
6. $3 Million Dollars 'PER DAY' is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. That's $1.2 Billion a year.
7. 28% percent of all federal prison inmates are illegal aliens.
8. $190 billion dollars are spent each year on illegal aliens for welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
9. $200 billion dollars per year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in t he US.
11. During the year 2005, there were 8 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our southern border with as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from other terrorist countries. Over 10,000 of those were middle-eastern terrorists. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin, crack, guns, and marijuana crossed into the U.S. from the southern border.
12. The National Policy Institute, estimates that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion, or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.
13. In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $65 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin, to their families and friends.
14. The dark side of illegal immigration: Nearly one million sex crimes are committed by illegal immigrants in the United States!
Total cost a whopping $538.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR !
I'm all for this! Of course it will never happen... but just imagine an America without all those illegals.
wctriumph
09-29-2014, 21:44
If all of the illegal aliens left, would I still be a racist?
If all the illegals left the entire country to fall into a panic.... But hey. No one ever looks at all sides of an issue...
Posted Via Glade Plug In.
Great-Kazoo
09-29-2014, 21:47
If all of the illegal aliens left, would I still be a racist?
Only to those who have not received their reparation checks yet .
I think we could survive with legal immigration.
I think we could survive with legal immigration.
No. We couldn't. Because the legal way is broken....
Posted Via Glade Plug In.
If all the illegals left the entire country to fall into a panic.... But hey. No one ever looks at all sides of an issue...
How so? Because demand for actual living wages might come back? Or perhaps some places couldn't get away with paying off-the-books below what someone can actually afford to live on? Sure it would be tough, but then imagine what would happen once things fixed themselves...
I think we could survive with legal immigration.
Yep. [Beer]
Great-Kazoo
09-29-2014, 21:55
No. We couldn't. Because the legal way is broken....
Posted Via Glade Plug In.
You just leave those California Ideals at the border, young man.
How so? Because demand for actual living wages might come back? Or perhaps some places couldn't get away with paying off-the-books below what someone can actually afford to live on? Sure it would be tough, but then imagine what would happen once things fixed themselves...
What makes you think that would change if illegals left? Serious question.
I didn't read it. Too long for me. Did it mention the fact that fruits and vegetables would quadruple in price? No way in hell I'm paying $12 for a head of lettuce because we now have to pay middle class white kids $15 an hour to work the fields.
I love my illegal immigrant friends. [Flower]
Farm workers were largely legal and have been for decades. These days, a lot of the produce in our grocery stores wasn't even grown and harvested in this country.
The legal path for immigration isn't broken, it's not being enforced.
ChunkyMonkey
09-29-2014, 22:32
No. We couldn't. Because the legal way is broken....
Posted Via Glade Plug In.
How so?
That read like an advertisement to attract more folks from south of the border.
Wait. Wait. Wait......That's from Tina Griego? Smells like bullshit to me. Correct me if I'm wrong here fellas.
buffalobo
09-30-2014, 04:48
I have not read the article yet but noticed that a libby finally admitted there are more than the 10-12 million number that has been reported by MSM for the last 15 yrs. True number IMO is north of 25 million.
buffalobo
09-30-2014, 05:17
I read the qoute posted and I am going to agree with KS63 and throw out the BS flag. NFW Tina Griego wrote that article.
I did very minimal research, checked Tina Griego Facebook page and until Ronin or someone else posts link or source I call bullshit.
buffalobo
09-30-2014, 05:35
Appears she did write the article in 2007. I knew it was familiar and surprised it is related to Tina Griego. Something still seems fishy but I don't have time to research further and my own dislike of Griego may be influencing me.
http://www.examiner.com/article/what-if-20-million-unlawful-immigrants-vacated-america
Jumpstart
09-30-2014, 06:22
We sure could survive without illegal immigration. We have the most generous LEGAL system in the free world. The only thing broken with our system is the enforcement of immigration law.
trlcavscout
09-30-2014, 06:33
I didn't read it. Too long for me. Did it mention the fact that fruits and vegetables would quadruple in price? No way in hell I'm paying $12 for a head of lettuce because we now have to pay middle class white kids $15 an hour to work the fields.
I love my illegal immigrant friends. [Flower]
we have minimum wage workers in America. We also have millions of lazy fucks begging for handouts and welfare that could easily do those jobs. Most of the non-immigrant farm workers I know (employees not owners) make $8-$10 an hour now. Onions might go up a little unless Jim wants to top them with his cane?
ZERO THEORY
09-30-2014, 06:49
The crime, tax, traffic, welfare, and population stuff is interesting (and infuriating). However, the jobs claims are speculation at best. Consider that most illegals are doing jobs that Americans won't do, hence they get paid nothing to do them. Secondly, you've got to be realistic about how American companies work. If all of the sudden, the labor cost for any given project rose by even 5% from having to now meet minimum wage or more, a good portion of those companies would pack up and set up their operation in another country. Mexico being a likely choice, ironically enough. Consider the economic impact of that.
And things like point #11 in the end cap cheapen the validity of the article. "...from other terrorist countries. Over 10,000 of those were middle-eastern terrorists." This is one of those obnoxious absolutist statements that make you question the sources of the author. Don't let confirmation bias blind you to questionable journalism.
buffalobo
09-30-2014, 07:00
I didn't read it. Too long for me. Did it mention the fact that fruits and vegetables would quadruple in price? No way in hell I'm paying $12 for a head of lettuce because we now have to pay middle class white kids $15 an hour to work the fields.
I love my illegal immigrant friends. [Flower]
Middle class white kids don't work the fields. These days they don't appear to work. They used to work fast food, restaurant and retail for minimum wage.
That situation seemed to work well for most everybody. Kids earned money and learned responsibility of employment. Typically low margin/entry level skill business got relatively cheap labor and both benefited overall economy.
From what I see in produce section at the market, we import a majority of our produce.
Bailey Guns
09-30-2014, 08:05
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_15247891
Those of you who are skeptical the article was written by the ultra-liberal Tina Griego are correct.
I would be happy, I know that much.
Schools would be better off and have more funding so that our kids would get better attention at school.
i would have a lot less to worry about with drivers that don't have insurance.
I'll grow my own damn vegetables if I need to. There is a lot of local stuff, but there is also plenty that comes from out of country so food prices would not skyrocket like you imagine.
The crime, tax, traffic, welfare, and population stuff is interesting (and infuriating). However, the jobs claims are speculation at best. Consider that most illegals are doing jobs that Americans won't do, hence they get paid nothing to do them. Secondly, you've got to be realistic about how American companies work. If all of the sudden, the labor cost for any given project rose by even 5% from having to now meet minimum wage or more, a good portion of those companies would pack up and set up their operation in another country. Mexico being a likely choice, ironically enough. Consider the economic impact of that.
And things like point #11 in the end cap cheapen the validity of the article. "...from other terrorist countries. Over 10,000 of those were middle-eastern terrorists." This is one of those obnoxious absolutist statements that make you question the sources of the author. Don't let confirmation bias blind you to questionable journalism.
Companies packing up, oh you mean like the autos that already do a lot of Mexico stuff, can-am, black and decker, calaway golf, caterpillar, flambeau hunting decoys, lots of kids toys etc etc.
they are going for cheaper labor already. Obviously we are too expensive with illegals as it is....or the laws we have are terrible and not set up for businesses to thrive.
The crime, tax, traffic, welfare, and population stuff is interesting (and infuriating). However, the jobs claims are speculation at best. Consider that most illegals are doing jobs that Americans won't do, hence they get paid nothing to do them. Secondly, you've got to be realistic about how American companies work. If all of the sudden, the labor cost for any given project rose by even 5% from having to now meet minimum wage or more, a good portion of those companies would pack up and set up their operation in another country. Mexico being a likely choice, ironically enough. Consider the economic impact of that.
And things like point #11 in the end cap cheapen the validity of the article. "...from other terrorist countries. Over 10,000 of those were middle-eastern terrorists." This is one of those obnoxious absolutist statements that make you question the sources of the author. Don't let confirmation bias blind you to questionable journalism.
That is the biggest fallacious argument when it comes to the debate on illegal immigration. "They do the jobs we Americans won't do." Bovine feces, my friend. If there were no cheap (albeit illegal) labor, the system would shift to accommodate. Last time I checked, this illegal immigration is a more recent (meaning last 30 years or so) phenomenon. We survived post WWII without resorting to all the "crappy" jobs needing to be done by illegals. Perhaps it would help improve our work ethic across the board in this country. With no immoral and really cheap labor, there would be work that needed to get done, and people couldn't sit back and say "oh we'll just get some Honduran immigrant to do that!"
Aloha_Shooter
09-30-2014, 09:36
I have to agree with Mr. Fred here. The legal immigration path is broken when it takes people 7-20 years to get in despite having well-paying jobs, knowing basic civics, etc.
In my ideal setup, we would lift the legal immigration quotas but strictly enforce the rules about criminal background/conduct, contagious diseases (especially STDs and foreign viruses), and have a monitored guest worker program that would give outsiders a way to legally come in, work under US laws and rules, but not qualify for citizenship. It would probably need a Constitutional amendment to prevent the creation of anchor babies by people coming in under the guest worker program but I'm not really that hard up on the "anchor baby" issue. Bruce Lee got back in the US because he was born at an American hospital while his parents were touring here.
What we have now is so broken it would be hard to design it to fail harder than it does today.
I'd be happy to just see actual enforcement of the laws that are already in place.
Stop providing welfare to them. Without education, housing, and medical, they will have to leave. Sure, patch them up at the ER, but as soon as they are able to travel, toss them back over the fence. And send the bill to Mexico or Canada - wherever they came across in the first place.
Start prosecuting every business and individual that hires illegals. Without any income, they will have to leave.
Start rounding them up and pitching them over the fence into Nuevo Laredo. You will soon see the rest of them fleeing back across a safer section of the border.
Anchor babies are bogus. Just because your mother swam over in time to drop you on our shore, does not entitle you and your extended family the "right" to be automatic "citizens."
"Living wage" and "Jobs Americans won't do," is also bogus. Low paying jobs were never meant to be careers - they are entry level. Cut off the welfare and I guarantee there will be plenty of Americans willing to do those jobs.
Of course, these are just dreams. It is only going to get much worse. America as we knew it is gone forever.
Time to prepare for what comes next.
BushMasterBoy
09-30-2014, 10:43
South A Merry Cuns?
While I do respect the opinion of everyone, I do find it interesting or rather amusing, on how well we all have forgotten on how North America was raised, on how the principles became, and how we started our Republic, Union, State...
Our forefathers, our ancestors, our great great grandfathers, they all came into this land, not by legal means, no one had papers to sign, ( in the beginning that is ) even our Statue of Liberty on the very plates written on it, " Give me your sick, the poor " So forth, I agree that if you want to have a better living ( dream ) you should go by the legal system, but not many can do so, because of the amount of time\money that is needed, we are all immigrants, non of us are native to this land, except the men living in the so called reserves, granted our economic system is affected by it, but it also thrives from it, at least for those whom spend the money in our soil, the change that we are speaking about on this forum, we are talking about changing a system that allowed this, since the day the people from the Old World came to the New World, to change this, implies on changing the whole ideals and laws of how our country was created, like it or not we are all immigrants, we where just lucky enough to be born in here. I agree on the laws of immigration that should be modified, but to kick out those who are in need, those who only want a chance to become better men and provide for their families, it is just pure hypocrisy, all of our ancestors came here by no legal means, they gave it all for us, yes there are those whom only want to take advantage of us and milk the system and provide nothing good, those I agree that should be kicked out, but those who want to excel and provide to our great Country, those should be give the benefit of the doubt .
As for jobs, I find it a weak argument, there are plenty of jobs out there, many of those jobs, most of us will not do it for X and Y reasons, our corporations are leaving state side weather we have illegals or not, they do not give a shit about anything, except for profits, we almost no longer produce like back in the day, most of our stuff comes from China...
" Stop providing welfare to them. Without education, housing, and medical, they will have to leave. Sure, patch them up at the ER, but as soon as they are able to travel, toss them back over the fence. And send the bill to Mexico or Canada - wherever they came across in the first place.[/COLOR]
Start prosecuting every business and individual that hires illegals. Without any income, they will have to leave.[/COLOR]
Start rounding them up and pitching them over the fence into Nuevo Laredo. You will soon see the rest of them fleeing back across a safer section of the border. "
^ This is debatable, as many will not return, they already left everything to come up, what makes you think they will simply give up and go back ? Our Forefathers did not...
It might create a bigger issue, more crime, less educated people ( right now we are hurting for education ) the D party will not let it happen since they need their votes, most of the companies\corps have deep ties with the local gov, this will go no where, no I do not have a negative mentality but it is the hard cold truth.
And to make it clear, I do not support illegal immigration, but I do support the idea on giving a chance to those who can provide for our awesome Country and\or those who want to better them selves and provide to their families that will provide to us the people.
Just a thought
ZERO THEORY
09-30-2014, 11:29
they are going for cheaper labor already. Obviously we are too expensive with illegals as it is....or the laws we have are terrible and not set up for businesses to thrive.
This is an interesting point. Considering that there were good-paying jobs for hard-working Americans with little in the way of education clear into the 70s, I'd like to see some more data on what happened. It seems like things took a very severe turn following the oil crunch of Carter's years, and the illegal influx wasn't far behind it. So fair play, this would be an interesting talking point for another thread.
We survived post WWII without resorting to all the "crappy" jobs needing to be done by illegals.
The post WWII economic recovery was a substantially different macroeconomic environment than today's. Come on now.
That is the heart of the liberal talking points.
NO illegals do the jobs that employers wont pay a legal American to do. Why pay an American a fair wage? They can pay an illegal less. .
If you have faith in companies that will pay an illegal less to suddenly do the right thing and hire a strong American work force once they left, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.
For those that think illegal immigrants are a low cost workforce, that is incorrect. They are a heavily subsidized workforce. Sadly, the money that pours into budgets to support these families, is not necessarily funded. Many of the programs that support illegal immigrants are unfunded liabilities, which is one of the forces driving up our national debt. The dollar is so diluted at this point, I doubt there is any recovery before it collapses. The truly unfortunate circumstance of illegal immigration is the use of it to change demographics for political purposes. I find it tragic that people refuse to accept that our nation's monetary policy leads to bankruptcy.
hghclsswhitetrsh
09-30-2014, 11:45
What if all the piece of shit low life scum bags who cheat the system that are Americans stop? How much money will that save? The bastards that mooch and or cheat the welfare, section 8 housing, va benefits, disability etc etc etc etc???
Nobody wants to do shit about it. Nobody will ever do anything about it. People will only bitch and things will get PROGRESSIVELY worse until collapse.
While I do respect the opinion of everyone, I do find it interesting or rather amusing, on how well we all have forgotten on how North America was raised, on how the principles became, and how we started our Republic, Union, State...
There are two major factors when looking at this argument. 1) There were no entitlements and the government wasn't operating in a deficit. When my family came here in the 18th and 19th centuries, they paid there own way and carved out homes in the wilderness. 2) There was room back then; and even though there was plenty of room, the existing population was uprooted and moved. So, is that what we want to happen to us? There is no guarantee that we or our children will have this land unless we protect it. I guess, I am one of the NO Vacancy advocates; the time of bringing people here is over; we are full; no other first world country allows fluid borders like we do.
While I do respect the opinion of everyone, I do find it interesting or rather amusing, on how well we all have forgotten on how North America was raised, on how the principles became, and how we started our Republic, Union, State...
Our forefathers, our ancestors, our great great grandfathers, they all came into this land, not by legal means, no one had papers to sign, ( in the beginning that is ) even our Statue of Liberty on the very plates written on it, " Give me your sick, the poor " So forth, I agree that if you want to have a better living ( dream ) you should go by the legal system, but not many can do so, because of the amount of time\money that is needed, we are all immigrants, non of us are native to this land, except the men living in the so called reserves, granted our economic system is affected by it, but it also thrives from it, at least for those whom spend the money in our soil, the change that we are speaking about on this forum, we are talking about changing a system that allowed this, since the day the people from the Old World came to the New World, to change this, implies on changing the whole ideals and laws of how our country was created, like it or not we are all immigrants, we where just lucky enough to be born in here. I agree on the laws of immigration that should be modified, but to kick out those who are in need, those who only want a chance to become better men and provide for their families, it is just pure hypocrisy, all of our ancestors came here by no legal means, they gave it all for us, yes there are those whom only want to take advantage of us and milk the system and provide nothing good, those I agree that should be kicked out, but those who want to excel and provide to our great Country, those should be give the benefit of the doubt .
As for jobs, I find it a weak argument, there are plenty of jobs out there, many of those jobs, most of us will not do it for X and Y reasons, our corporations are leaving state side weather we have illegals or not, they do not give a shit about anything, except for profits, we almost no longer produce like back in the day, most of our stuff comes from China...
" Stop providing welfare to them. Without education, housing, and medical, they will have to leave. Sure, patch them up at the ER, but as soon as they are able to travel, toss them back over the fence. And send the bill to Mexico or Canada - wherever they came across in the first place.[/COLOR]
Start prosecuting every business and individual that hires illegals. Without any income, they will have to leave.[/COLOR]
Start rounding them up and pitching them over the fence into Nuevo Laredo. You will soon see the rest of them fleeing back across a safer section of the border. "
^ This is debatable, as many will not return, they already left everything to come up, what makes you think they will simply give up and go back ? Our Forefathers did not...
It might create a bigger issue, more crime, less educated people ( right now we are hurting for education ) the D party will not let it happen since they need their votes, most of the companies\corps have deep ties with the local gov, this will go no where, no I do not have a negative mentality but it is the hard cold truth.
And to make it clear, I do not support illegal immigration, but I do support the idea on giving a chance to those who can provide for our awesome Country and\or those who want to better them selves and provide to their families that will provide to us the people.
Just a thought
I was hoping to see a /SARC tag at the bottom of this post.
Let's be clear on the history of America's founding and early immigration.
Early immigrants came here for the opportunity of a better life. The vast majority came here legally, they learned English, and adopted the customs of their new home. "E Pluribus Unum"
We no longer have the "Unum" due to the "celebrate diversity" nonsense shoved down our throats. A state will not survive without unity - cultural unity. Never has, never will.
Most of today's immigrants also come here for the opportunity of a better life. However, the vast majority come here illegally, they have no desire or need to speak anything other than their native language, and they now have special protections covering their homeland's customs. The state is not stronger for their presence.
It's over. We can never get it back.
Aloha_Shooter
09-30-2014, 12:12
davsel, when you say "the vast majority came here legally," realize that there wasn't a huge formalized process for most of the 19th century. America pretty much welcomed anyone who got off a boat. With no welfare system, you either learned to be productive or you died.
A lot of the objections raised in this thread were raised against the Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc. immigrants 100 or more years ago.
Reagan pointed out 30 years ago that even in the midst of the Carter Recession (which was far worse than the Bush Recession despite what the mass media say but not quite as bad as the Obama Continued-Recession), you could find Help Wanted ads running that weren't being filled. Despite what people want to say about getting rid of the illegals and Americans will fill the jobs, the fact of the matter is that there were and continue to be tons of jobs that Americans don't seem to want to take. I blame the social welfare system for much of this but regardless of how you assign blame, it's a fact of life.
Every economic boom in our country's history has been preceded by an immigration wave. What we need to do is harness the energy of immigrants who are hungry for a new life but weed out those who are simply parasites or infections.
I was hoping to see a /SARC tag at the bottom of this post.
Let's be clear on the history of America's founding and early immigration.
Early immigrants came here for the opportunity of a better life. The vast majority came here legally, they learned English, and adopted the customs of their new home. "E Pluribus Unum"
We no longer have the "Unum" due to the "celebrate diversity" nonsense shoved down our throats. A state will not survive without unity - cultural unity. Never has, never will.
You speak of the history of America's founding, but what makes you think that the vast majority came here legally ? I do hope that you are being sarcastic, on the " learned English and adopted the customs to the new home " they brought their own custom, when the first settlers came, what makes you think they where all " English " there was cultural diversity since the day one,
Most of today's immigrants also come here for the opportunity of a better life. However, the vast majority come here illegally, they have no desire or need to speak anything other than their native language, and they now have special protections covering their homeland's customs. The state is not stronger for their presence.
It's over. We can never get it back.
You speak of the history of America's founding, but what makes you think that the vast majority came here legally ? I do hope that you are being sarcastic, on the " learned English and adopted the customs to the new home " they brought their own custom, when the first settlers came, what makes you think they where all " English " or all spoke English ? There was cultural diversity since the day one, but they all had one thing in mind and they all agreed to it, and that is to a new beginning, history has proven that when the state tries to force " cultural unity " the state breaks apart and fails. Another point to the " cultural unity" Yes we will never have it, but it is not because of the illegal immigrants, but because of everyone, but only one thing is clear with all of us, it does not matter where we come from, when the time comes, we will all be united when it is time to defend our State.
I understand that, we need to stop the illegal immigration or create other methods to promote legal immigration, but when you state it like that " they have no desire or need to speak our language " I ask you this, did we have or have any desire to speak Navajo ?
davsel, when you say "the vast majority came here legally," realize that there wasn't a huge formalized process for most of the 19th century. America pretty much welcomed anyone who got off a boat. With no welfare system, you either learned to be productive or you died.
A lot of the objections raised in this thread were raised against the Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc. immigrants 100 or more years ago.
Reagan pointed out 30 years ago that even in the midst of the Carter Recession (which was far worse than the Bush Recession despite what the mass media say but not quite as bad as the Obama Continued-Recession), you could find Help Wanted ads running that weren't being filled. Despite what people want to say about getting rid of the illegals and Americans will fill the jobs, the fact of the matter is that there were and continue to be tons of jobs that Americans don't seem to want to take. I blame the social welfare system for much of this but regardless of how you assign blame, it's a fact of life.
Every economic boom in our country's history has been preceded by an immigration wave. What we need to do is harness the energy of immigrants who are hungry for a new life but weed out those who are simply parasites or infections.
My thoughts exactly.
muddywings
09-30-2014, 12:44
I'm a pretty simple fella (and short on time).
You want open borders like it was 100 years ago, get rid of the welfare state system we developed over the past 100 years.
You want a welfare state, then close the borders--the few producers left can't feed the moochers.
Ya can't have both.
bye
All Indian arguments are wasted on me.
There are too many glaringly obvious reasons a civilized population would choose to conquer a savage population rather than adopt its customs. Give it a rest.
Yes, I blame the welfare system currently in play. Without it, Americans, and immigrants both legal and illegal, would have reason to get off their couch or starve.
Our current system invites the dregs to come and squat on our country.
I read yesterday that the greatest health risk to the "poor" in America is obesity.
mcantar18c
09-30-2014, 16:39
One of my main problems with illegal immigrants is their attitudes towards the US vs those of legal immigrants (generally). Legal immigrants like America. Illegal immigrants like their countries and are only interested in using America.
The people who are willing to put in the time and effort to become legal citizens seem to give a shit. They are American citizens, and they achieved that because they cared enough to. They put American flag stickers on their (insured) cars and celebrate the 4th of July with the rest of the country. They're fucking proud of it. They might have pride in their home country as well, but they came here because it's better here and they not only accept but embrace that fact. You ask them what they are, they say "I am an American!"
Illegals generally seem to just not give a shit. They're not Americans, they're _____. They cane here because they heard thatthey can make x amount of money here and send it home, that here they can get free health care and education, they don't care to contribute anything to the country (like taxes), they're fucking leaches. You ask them what they are, they say "I am a Mehican!" Because that's what they identify themselves as. These are the assholes who celebrate Cinco de Mayo like it's the best day of the year and tell their kids they don't have to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance in school or give half a second's thought to the 4th of July. They hang little flags on their mirrors from some other country so that everybody else can see.
In short, there's a critical difference in how they self-identify.
Whistler
09-30-2014, 16:55
One of my main problems with illegal immigrants is their attitudes towards the US vs those of legal immigrants (generally). Legal immigrants like America. Illegal immigrants like their countries and are only interested in using America.
The people who are willing to put in the time and effort to become legal citizens seem to give a shit. They are American citizens, and they achieved that because they cared enough to. They put American flag stickers on their (insured) cars and celebrate the 4th of July with the rest of the country. They're fucking proud of it. They might have pride in their home country as well, but they came here because it's better here and they not only accept but embrace that fact. You ask them what they are, they say "I am an American!"
Illegals generally seem to just not give a shit. They're not Americans, they're _____. They cane here because they heard thatthey can make x amount of money here and send it home, that here they can get free health care and education, they don't care to contribute anything to the country (like taxes), they're fucking leaches. You ask them what they are, they say "I am a Mehican!" Because that's what they identify themselves as. These are the assholes who celebrate Cinco de Mayo like it's the best day of the year and tell their kids they don't have to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance in school or give half a second's thought to the 4th of July. They hang little flags on their mirrors from some other country so that everybody else can see.
In short, there's a critical difference in how they self-identify.
Well said, goes for the insert_ethnicity_here-American label that annoys me so much. You aren't African-American, Asian-American, Irish-American... you are AMERICAN or you are invited to go the hell home. Such things contribute to division of our country and serves to promote other cultures above the one that puts food in their ungrateful belly.
ZERO THEORY
09-30-2014, 17:47
What if all the piece of shit low life scum bags who cheat the system that are Americans stop? How much money will that save? The bastards that mooch and or cheat the welfare, section 8 housing, va benefits, disability etc etc etc etc???
Nobody wants to do shit about it. Nobody will ever do anything about it. People will only bitch and things will get PROGRESSIVELY worse until collapse.
The sad part is that nobody CAN do anything about it, it seems. The minute a legislator actually takes a stand to restrict and end the welfare groveling, they get crucified. The opposition wheels out the welfare recipients in droves to accuse that legislator of "hating poor people", "not caring about children", and "being a racist, classist Nazi." The reality is that not everyone wins in life. And when you have a virus eating away at your flesh, sometimes you have to lose a limb to save the body. The people who had children when they didn't have a livable income are responsible for their wellbeing, and if their transgressions lead them and their kin to poverty, so be it. Liberals may not want to hear that, but it's the reality. Otherwise, we all get drug down and drown.
Crabs in a bucket.
davsel, when you say "the vast majority came here legally," realize that there wasn't a huge formalized process for most of the 19th century. America pretty much welcomed anyone who got off a boat. With no welfare system, you either learned to be productive or you died.
A lot of the objections raised in this thread were raised against the Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc. immigrants 100 or more years ago.
Reagan pointed out 30 years ago that even in the midst of the Carter Recession (which was far worse than the Bush Recession despite what the mass media say but not quite as bad as the Obama Continued-Recession), you could find Help Wanted ads running that weren't being filled. Despite what people want to say about getting rid of the illegals and Americans will fill the jobs, the fact of the matter is that there were and continue to be tons of jobs that Americans don't seem to want to take. I blame the social welfare system for much of this but regardless of how you assign blame, it's a fact of life.
Every economic boom in our country's history has been preceded by an immigration wave. What we need to do is harness the energy of immigrants who are hungry for a new life but weed out those who are simply parasites or infections.
Yep.
All Indian arguments are wasted on me.
There are too many glaringly obvious reasons a civilized population would choose to conquer a savage population rather than adopt its customs. Give it a rest.
Are the reasons obvious? Sure. People want to live in familiar settings. If you're trying to justify ethnic cleansing with subjective "civilized society" arguments, I would ask that you vacate this planet with your existence.
ZERO THEORY
09-30-2014, 17:54
One of my main problems with illegal immigrants is their attitudes towards the US vs those of legal immigrants (generally). Legal immigrants like America. Illegal immigrants like their countries and are only interested in using America.
The people who are willing to put in the time and effort to become legal citizens seem to give a shit. They are American citizens, and they achieved that because they cared enough to. They put American flag stickers on their (insured) cars and celebrate the 4th of July with the rest of the country. They're fucking proud of it. They might have pride in their home country as well, but they came here because it's better here and they not only accept but embrace that fact. You ask them what they are, they say "I am an American!"
Illegals generally seem to just not give a shit. They're not Americans, they're _____. They cane here because they heard thatthey can make x amount of money here and send it home, that here they can get free health care and education, they don't care to contribute anything to the country (like taxes), they're fucking leaches. You ask them what they are, they say "I am a Mehican!" Because that's what they identify themselves as. These are the assholes who celebrate Cinco de Mayo like it's the best day of the year and tell their kids they don't have to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance in school or give half a second's thought to the 4th of July. They hang little flags on their mirrors from some other country so that everybody else can see.
In short, there's a critical difference in how they self-identify.
This is probably one of my biggest daily aggravations. I used to work on 74th and Federal. Imagine how annoyed these same people would be if I moved "undocumented" to Chihuahua or Juarez and drove around with my windows down blasting Pantera, all the while I had a giant American flag sticker on my back window. And whenever I went to the grocery store, I got pithy and rude with the staff because they didn't accommodate my native language. And I sat around with my American sister/cousin/wife/son and just spoke loudly in English over Mexicans. And then, when Cinco de Mayo came around, I protested and said that I was proud to be an American and was offended by their celebrations.
Spoiler alert: I wouldn't get accommodated and placated by the Mexican government.
This is probably one of my biggest daily aggravations. I used to work on 74th and Federal. Imagine how annoyed these same people would be if I moved "undocumented" to Chihuahua or Juarez and drove around with my windows down blasting Pantera, all the while I had a giant American flag sticker on my back window. And whenever I went to the grocery store, I got pithy and rude with the staff because they didn't accommodate my native language. And I sat around with my American sister/cousin/wife/son and just spoke loudly in English over Mexicans. And then, when Cinco de Mayo came around, I protested and said that I was proud to be an American and was offended by their celebrations.
Spoiler alert: I wouldn't get accommodated and placated by the Mexican government.
This is indeed an aggravation; and not tolerated in other countries as you suggest. However, I think this behavior is empowered by stupid policy. Our welfare state doesn't bring out the best in our own citizens; we certainly can't expect it to bring out the best in those who have no vested interest in this country. Extending entitlement programs and education to illegal immigrants is definitely on the top 10 list of stupid and idiotic policies of our country both at the state and federal level. When this country prints out money and extends the debt every year to cover unfunded liabilities, why in the hell are we paying for these people? In the past, there were compelling reasons for immigration, and in some cases it can still be beneficial. However, in 2014 given the unfunded liabilities and the reality of entitlement programs, the liability caused by the current influx of illegal immigrants exceeds the benefit. Ultimately, we pay out more than they are contributing. The issue is ILLEGAL immigration; it sure wouldn't help to make the current border hoping BS legal. Our borders should be a valve; we only let in what is needed where it actually benefits the country as whole, and our policies should hold no reward for those that come here illegally. People don't think about it today, but over population and resource scarcity will be an issue in the 21st century.
I think what scares me the most is the demographic change. The people from Mexico have no experience or notion of living in a free state. Is the conversation about a free market society and individual freedom? No, it is about "will you give me shit if I check here." Ultimately, the conversation is moot. The socialist Democrats want the numbers and enticing them with the carrot of benefits is a path to power.
rockhound
09-30-2014, 19:02
if you could accomplish that (all the illegals leaving)
I would throw the worlds largest party
Take away their ability to work and the gov't benefits and they will all go home on their own, or actually make an attempt to become legal.
Amnesty is total BS
Anyone using that fallacious and frankly insulting native American argument, please, do us all a favor and let those of us born here know exactly where we are native to. My family hails from Germany, Ireland, and Scotland. So which one am I supposed to go back to since I'm an immigrant here (by that idiotic definition)? Oh by the way, my grandparents on both sides were born in America, and both of my parents were born here. So if I'm not a "native born American citizen," tell me where I belong... I'd really like to know.
Also- for many illegals that still have family in the destitute regions (mostly south of our border, such as Mexico, Honduras, Nicaragua, etc)- they don't spend all of their earnings here. The estimates vary (as it's near impossible to track), but in some cases, upwards of 40% of wages earned by illegals here in America that still have family elsewhere, is sent to those families. So it is negatively effecting our economy. Just a little FYI.
And I think the biggest reason to fix our broken immigration system, regardless of how you feel, is security. It's been said ad naseum on here, but we have no clue the history (criminal or otherwise) of many of the people who don't immigrate here legally. They could be Al Qaeda, ISIS, Triad, etc. Probably not a large portion are out to attack us, but then again, all you need is 19, right?
I think if something were changed so that an anchor baby were not able to grant amnesty to extended, or even immediate family members, the issue of anchor children would go away. After all, if you're born in the US, there is literally no where to go "home" to, because the US is home. Anyone who states otherwise is a hypocrite and a liar because we all know damn well that if they found out they were born some where else, but spent their whole lives here, they wouldn't leave either.
I'm in strong agreement with the earlier statement of open boarders, zero welfare.
GilpinGuy
09-30-2014, 23:24
Were heads of lettuce $12 a head back in the day before the massive influx of illegal immigrants? I don't think so.
buffalobo
09-30-2014, 23:38
Were heads of lettuce $12 a head back in the day before the massive influx of illegal immigrants? I don't think so.
And you got paid $1/box to pick apples. Illegal or local citizen.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/09/30/white-house-establishes-program-for-central-american-children-to-qualify-as-refugees-to-join-u-s-family/#more-89783
http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/border-stats.jpg?w=640&h=469
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