View Full Version : Larimer County Park Ranger accidental firing
Wow, what an idiot
http://www.reporterherald.com/news_story.asp?ID=23524 (http://www.reporterherald.com/news_story.asp?ID=23524)
sucks for her. maybe she should practice with an unloaded weapon...or at a range...there is a bright idea![Coffee]
GunTroll
06-11-2009, 22:29
ND not AD! Dumb ass rookie. This is how guns look bad.[Bang]
theGinsue
06-12-2009, 00:01
What an idiot.
Then again, it said she put a hole in the wall of her shower. Maybe she was intentionally creating a peephole for her neighbor to watch her through.
B2crawler
06-12-2009, 07:20
I bet it had to do with the 2am thing. I can barley make a fast draw and hit the toilet at that time of morning.
GhostRider
06-12-2009, 09:22
OMG what an idiot! and yet this is who could be walking into your camp site.
What's the big deal? I'd say this definitely qualifies as negligent discharge. She knew better than to point a loaded gun around in her apartment. That's negligence no matter how you slice it.
What's the big deal? I'd say this definitely qualifies as negligent discharge. She knew better than to point a loaded gun around in her apartment. That's negligence no matter how you slice it.
She just got finished watching Dirty Hairy and was running around the apartment acting out a scene :D
SA Friday
06-12-2009, 11:51
I'm glad to see that she was practicing. I'm not very happy she failed to unload the firearm. There's a reason dry fire practice is called "dry-fire".
Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. My last Fed agency had about 6 cases like this in the 10 1/2 years I was with them. It's a world wide agency and pretty big, so the percentages of this happening are very small, but it does happen. My agency recommended using our body armor on a chair backed by a brick wall for appropriate backstop. Body armor is replaceable and stops penetration. There are also some gun bags with kevlar built in to them for loading and unloading in places without a clearing barrel.
I glad nobody was hurt. AD's and ND's happen. You shoot enough and you will have an AD or an ND. The key is to have secondary safety rules in place to stop the AD or ND from injuring anyone. This one is pretty bad since she clearly violated multiple safety rules to cause the incident. I bet she needs new drawers and learned a real hard lesson that night.
I'm glad to see that she was practicing. I'm not very happy she failed to unload the firearm. There's a reason dry fire practice is called "dry-fire".
Maybe she thought that the weapon just had to be moisture free :D
It was raining, she was indoors... all is well.
GunTroll
06-12-2009, 14:28
I see some people still use the AD (accidental discharge). No such thing! ND only! (negligent discharge) If in any way a human is in the equation and a round goes off then its a ND. I can't even come up with a scenario for an AD. Why...? Because it doesn't exist.
What about a round cooking off?
I've heard of BBQ cook offs, but no Round cook offs.
Must be a parks thingy.
GunTroll
06-12-2009, 20:10
What about a round cooking off?
Human factor.
maybe she was practicing with her shower gun in a plastic bag, went to pull it out, dropped it in the shower, just happened to land on her dildo and go off. and she was a smoking hot 5'10" blond with blue eyes and a perfect body with 34Ds.
oh wait...I think I took that too far[ROFL2]
maybe she was practicing with her shower gun in a plastic bag, went to pull it out, dropped it in the shower, just happened to land on her dildo and go off. and she was a smoking hot 5'10" blond with blue eyes and a perfect body with 34Ds.
oh wait...I think I took that too far[ROFL2]
YEAH!!! [Bounce] Bewbies
Maybe she thought that the weapon just had to be moisture free :D
It was raining, she was indoors... all is well.
Interesting theory. However, she was shooting in the shower. [ROFL1]
StagLefty
06-17-2009, 09:10
Maybe that obnoxious loudmouth from Kaboom-Oxi Clean was in her shower trying to sell her something- which would justify her actions.[Beer]
GunTroll
06-17-2009, 10:34
http://www.greenfaucet.com/system/files/517/billy_mays_gun.jpg
Brace yourself bitch! KABOOM!
68Charger
06-17-2009, 11:10
personally, I'd rather say there was a cockroach in the shower, and the handgun was handy, than admit practicing with a loaded weapon under those circumstances...[LOL]
I'd call it an accidental discharge if you were deliberately practicing with a loaded weapon under controlled circumstances (i.e. at the range, with it pointed downrange) and it went off... not negligent, since you took precautions to ensure nobody was in danger...
but now we're picking at nits...
GunTroll
06-17-2009, 11:28
AD does not exist. UD (unintentional discharge) does not exist. And if in any way a round goes off without you purposely meaning for it to go off in the direction you intended it to go towards you have yourself a ND(negligent discharge). Only you can take the blame. Don't sugar coat it with fancy names. Its negligence on your part. Not an accident. That passes the blame to odds and unforeseen powers. UD I think I just made up but it doesn't work either because its the same as ND which is what a round going off without intent is.
I have had a ND. Got lucky no one was hurt. It made me feel real small and real dumb. But I analyzed what I did wrong and will not do it again. Great lesson for me that came at no one else's loss.
Again, what about a round cooking off in a hot rifle? You don't even have to be holding the gun for that to happen.
blackford76
06-17-2009, 13:03
Got to be damned hot to do that, I had a M-60 barrel hot enough to start sparkling, and it didn't cook any off.
I've never seen it, only heard of it.
I have to commend GunTroll on being so adamant, when he has done it himself.
blackford76
06-17-2009, 15:14
Actually. UD does exist, I was nearly a victim of one. A friend had inherited a sxs 12 gauge and we were shooting clays. He loaded it and was waiting his turn to shoot with the gun still open, but with the 2 shells chambered. When it was his turn he steped into the 'box' closing the gun as he did so. The act of closing it set off both barrels, the shot hit the ground about 10' in front of me. It scared the hell out of all of us. We loaded 2 more shells, and being very carefull, closed the gun again, making damn sure it was aimed in a safe direction, and it went off again. We then decided it would make a great 'wall hanger' and took the firing pins out.
GunTroll
06-17-2009, 15:49
I'm sure you know but it sounds like that firearms could be repaired. And if there ever is a scenario where a UD would be correct your scenario sounds like a winner! I would think maybe, and only a maybe that perhaps there are only UD's and ND's. Never AD's!
This lady ranger is definatly in the ND catagory. Failed all sorts of rules.
68Charger
06-17-2009, 16:51
Guntroll,
you're arguing over words here..
not that they're a firearm authority, but Webster has 3 definitions for Negligent, the one that most applies here is:
b: failing to exercise the care expected of a reasonably prudent person in like circumstances
accidental also has multiple definitions, here are a couple that apply:
a: occurring unexpectedly or by chance
b: happening without intent or through carelessness and often with unfortunate results
Unintentional is obvious- if you did not INTEND to discharge the firearm, it was unintentional...
certainly no arguing that this story was about ND... but it was also unintentional, and accidental.. did she intend to shoot her shower? I highly doubt it... was she careless or ignorant? certainly careless...
but by the strict definition of the words, taking precautions that if a UD or AD were to occur while performing an action, then it's not a ND... another example is unchambering a round from a 1911 that is "cocked & locked"... you must disable the safety to remove the chambered round... if you have the weapon pointed at an insufficent backstop while doing this, you are negligent... but as described in an earlier post- if you point it at your BP vest in front of a brick wall, then IF it were to discharge while removing the chambered round, then it would be UD & AD, but not ND in my opinion.
look at the definition for accident:
a: an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance b: an unexpected and medically important bodily event especially when injurious <a cerebrovascular accident> c: an unexpected happening causing loss or injury which is not due to any fault or misconduct on the part of the person injured but for which legal relief may be sought d—used euphemistically to refer to an involuntary act or instance of urination or defecation
you seem to beleive that an accident absolves someone from fault/guilt/liability... in car accidents, they find someone at fault- but not all tickets issued would use the word "negligent"
could you still be held liable for an UD or AD? it would depend on the circumstances, but it's certainly possible.. but you are DEFINATELY liable for a ND
but I'm no lawyer, I'm an engineer..
and no, that doesn't mean I drive a train...
Whatever you want to call it, I had a friend who took his wife hunting. I don't remember exactly what the rifle was, but it was a .270. His wife flipped the safety off and it discharged. He didn't believe her that she didn't have her finger on the trigger, so he chambered another round and the same thing happened to him. Fortunately no one was hurt, because they followed the other core safety rules as well.
I'm irritated that the article mentioned how close the bullet passed to certain things. Was the baby in the crib? No? Then it doesn't matter if the bullet went through the crib 36 times!
GunTroll
06-17-2009, 19:00
Guntroll,
you're arguing over words here..
not that they're a firearm authority, but Webster has 3 definitions for Negligent, the one that most applies here is:
b: failing to exercise the care expected of a reasonably prudent person in like circumstances
accidental also has multiple definitions, here are a couple that apply:
a: occurring unexpectedly or by chance
b: happening without intent or through carelessness and often with unfortunate results
Unintentional is obvious- if you did not INTEND to discharge the firearm, it was unintentional...
certainly no arguing that this story was about ND... but it was also unintentional, and accidental.. did she intend to shoot her shower? I highly doubt it... was she careless or ignorant? certainly careless...
but by the strict definition of the words, taking precautions that if a UD or AD were to occur while performing an action, then it's not a ND... another example is unchambering a round from a 1911 that is "cocked & locked"... you must disable the safety to remove the chambered round... if you have the weapon pointed at an insufficent backstop while doing this, you are negligent... but as described in an earlier post- if you point it at your BP vest in front of a brick wall, then IF it were to discharge while removing the chambered round, then it would be UD & AD, but not ND in my opinion.
look at the definition for accident:
a: an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance b: an unexpected and medically important bodily event especially when injurious <a cerebrovascular accident> c: an unexpected happening causing loss or injury which is not due to any fault or misconduct on the part of the person injured but for which legal relief may be sought d—used euphemistically to refer to an involuntary act or instance of urination or defecation
you seem to beleive that an accident absolves someone from fault/guilt/liability... in car accidents, they find someone at fault- but not all tickets issued would use the word "negligent"
could you still be held liable for an UD or AD? it would depend on the circumstances, but it's certainly possible.. but you are DEFINATELY liable for a ND
but I'm no lawyer, I'm an engineer..
and no, that doesn't mean I drive a train...
No one is arguing.
Step back away from the computer. I love getting learned. Let me guess....you used a computer to get these definitions for everyone?? I hope one day we all can have the ability to search the net for answers and or definitions of words we use everyday.
I am ex Army and hard headed. Try to say AD or UD in the Army and you'll get schooled (If you have a projectile come out of the barrel at the wrong time). You as the shooter should have control of the firearm and what comes out of it at all times. If you do not intend to have a projectile come out at the wrong time then the gun should be unloaded. Everyone who carries a firearm is a potential ND'r. All three....AD,UD,ND are legit I suppose. But that wont win me over. For me there are only two types of discharges....ID (intentional discharge) and ND.
I'm no lawyer but I play one on TV. JK!
But I am a gunsmith.
[Beer]
blackford76
06-17-2009, 19:40
Yea Gun Troll, it could be fixed, but he got two, and one works fine, so he is happy to hang the scary one on the wall.
68Charger
06-18-2009, 08:34
No one is arguing.
I'm not arguing, I'm just being contradictory...
what can I say, I have a desk job in front of a computer- and when I'm stuck on a conference call with somebody babbling on about business cases or the like, I get bored... I'd much rather be [Beer]
you may hard-headed, but I'm soft-assed from sitting on it all day...[Coffee]
GunTroll
06-18-2009, 11:17
[ROFL1]
Thats good!
DirtyHarry
06-20-2009, 14:17
Trash!
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