View Full Version : FBI findings on the 9mm
I still believe the 40 S&W is the best.
http://concealednation.org/2014/10/fbi-decides-on-9mm-as-their-1-choice-and-have-tons-of-science-behind-their-decision/
Silly billy. 9mm or .45 > .40. All the best of both in the 80's maybe, realistically these days all the negatives of both.
ruthabagah
10-07-2014, 19:22
I love 40 for one main reason: each time there is a panic buy, that's the only ammo still available on the shelves!
No way! Toyota trucks are the best. Wait, wrong "what I prefer is best" thread. :)
Find what you like and shoot that.
HoneyBadger
10-07-2014, 19:32
No way! Toyota trucks are the best. Wait, wrong "what I prefer is best" thread. :)
Find what you like and shoot that.
[ROFL1]
Find what you like and shoot that.
i agree, not sure why a dept has to have a certain gun. Dept armorers?
I think the wear and tear on a gun is a bullshit argument. They obviously thought the 40 was a better round so replace the parts on the gun. How many rounds are these guys shooting? This is another waste of taxpayer $$$$.
Find what you like and shoot that.
Ding ding the WINNER!!!!!! Perfect idealogy!
I like shooting.
I like Potatoes
ZERO THEORY
10-07-2014, 20:08
Shot placement is king, penetration is queen, everything else is just gravy. Hit an organ, artery, or the brain. Disregard caliber arguments.
I carry a one firearm in each caliber that way I have options depending on the situation.
The article says the depth of penetration needs to be 12-18". I think that would mean a through hole in most people.
Except for this 400-lb.+ guy I work with.....
Best of both, worst of both.....I like 'em all.
balyon885
10-07-2014, 20:38
"LEOs miss 70%-80% of their shots? Wow. That sounds bad. Has anyone ever compared accuracy of LEOs to Civilians to Military? Just wondering. Not sure if that is even possible.
Considering alot LEOs don't have much practice shooting at more than a stationary piece of paper, then add the stress and adrenaline of the situation, no that number isn't surprising.
But honestly, .380 is the best, by far all around cartridge........ :D
clublights
10-07-2014, 20:53
If the .45 was good enough for my grandfather on the beaches of Iwo Jima.... Good enough for my uncles in the jungles of the La Drang, Good enough for my brothers in the Korengal Valley....
It's good enough for me.
Oh and iOS over Android [dig]
Great-Kazoo
10-07-2014, 21:12
cross fit
I like shooting.
I like to ride bikes.
HoneyBadger
10-07-2014, 21:32
cross fit
I do crossfit in my Tacoma while open carrying a hi-point .45.
kidicarus13
10-07-2014, 21:36
Shot placement is king, penetration is queen, everything else is just gravy. Hit an organ, artery, or the brain. Disregard caliber arguments.
End thread now
I like to ride bikes.
I like thinking I could do cross fit while eating potatoes riding my bike shooting my .380 at Toyota's.
Great-Kazoo
10-07-2014, 21:39
Shot placement is king, penetration is queen, everything else is just gravy. Hit an organ, artery, or the brain. Disregard caliber arguments.
End thread now
One who practices with a 22 is far superior to one who doesn't with a 45. (Marcas registrada Great-Kazoo, 2004)
KevDen2005
10-07-2014, 22:28
Shot placement is king, penetration is queen, everything else is just gravy. Hit an organ, artery, or the brain. Disregard caliber arguments.
The way this started out I was ready for a Dr. Seuss Rhyme
"Trust me I know what I'm doing."
50635
OtterbatHellcat
10-07-2014, 22:51
Hey wait....did you just kill this thread?...officially?
hghclsswhitetrsh
10-07-2014, 22:55
10mm.
Hey wait....did you just kill this thread?...officially?
.44 Mag /dead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQl6r0fqRAI
KevDen2005
10-07-2014, 23:04
Man, just by the picture I was going to guess Sledge Hammer.
I loved that show when I was a kid and I am sure I had no idea what was happening
Colorado Osprey
10-08-2014, 05:38
Don't ya just love when idiots twirl double action revolvers? They just want people to see it and kill themselves.
"trust me, I know what I'm doing"...... Bwa-ha-ha
GilpinGuy
10-08-2014, 05:50
The FBI is always right. [Coffee]
Jeffrey Lebowski
10-08-2014, 07:34
I'm the only one in this room professional enough to carry a glock 40.
"LEOs miss 70%-80% of their shots? Wow. That sounds bad. Has anyone ever compared accuracy of LEOs to Civilians to Military? Just wondering. Not sure if that is even possible.
About 20% of rounds fired by LEOs strike their intended target, about 20% of those shot by LEOs die of their wounds. While not something I would bet my life on, there is a 96% chance of survival if an LEO fires one shot at you. Those numbers are of course math, which is only an approximation. Having forensically studied several shootings where 10 or more rounds have been fired from a ballistics perspective, a few things are interesting. If the target is not hit in the first 3 rounds, the round count drifts to the spray and pray area with very low hit ratios. If the target is struck in the first three rounds, the caliber is typically not of great significance. LEOs fired well over 200 rounds at Columbine and did not hit the targets. If you look at the round counts from the perpetrators of Columbine, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, Ft. Hood and Aurora, you will find that they have a higher hit factor than LEOs. However, when we get to civilians involved in lethal force encounters and their hit rate, it is phenomenally high in comparison.
In order to get a true perspective, one must evaluate the training of the shooter, the mental state of the shooter, the conditions, and the forensic evidence. When that is done, the conclusion that can logically be reached is that those getting a paycheck to shoot a weapon have the lowest hit rates, those who do not fear losing their life are in the middle and those with training and the will to survive an attack on their own life have the highest hit rates. That should raise an eyebrow or two. The "attacked" civilian will have the least amount of warning and or preparation of the lethal force encounter, however they have the highest hit rates. That "may" tend to give some credence to delayed physiological effects of the adrenaline dump more than anything else.
Many years ago, we ran a test with 10 shooters. They fired 5 rounds from 4 different handguns (.38 spl revolver, 9mm Glock, .45 1911, .380 PPK) at a 7 yard target. We recorded total time, splits, accuracy and recall of some visual items near the target. This was done static several times to get a baseline. Then we had the shooters bungee jump and do the same test immediately, then at 5, 10 15 and 30 minutes. We also dropped them in a 45 degree dunk tank and last, after 2 shots of whiskey. While most shooters appeared calm by about 15 minute mark, the 5, 10, 15 and 30 minute delays after bungee jumping resulted in progressively worse times and accuracy while the immediate test was the best for 7 of the 10 shooters. The people who commissioned the test did not like the results and so the next phase was not completed. Adrenaline is an odd and powerful drug and its role in shooting performance should not be ignored.
We know that many race car drivers, pro golfers and some extreme sports participants use Beta-Blockers in an effort to increase performance and reduce the negative effects of adrenaline. While it has been discussed, I am not aware of any real world test involving responding LEOs using Beta-Blockers en route to a call, but I am not sure it is not something that should not be considered.
In the FWIW, the article in the OP is in concert with the forensic work I have performed on actual shooting incident reconstruction which often includes virtual autopsy evaluation of the terminal ballistics.
I do crossfit in my Tacoma while open carrying a hi-point .45.
That's bullshit man! I don't even own a Hi-Point 45.
sellersm
10-08-2014, 10:50
The FBI is always right. [Coffee]
This is the group that had to change to the .40 from the 10mm so the new recruits could qualify! So now they're going down one more caliber... Just wait 20 years, they'll report that the .22LR is the best!
68Charger
10-08-2014, 10:50
I'm not going to change my habits based on what an organization decides works for a wide array of agents. I'll use what works for me, and if it happens to have high availability during ammo shortages, I'll consider that a bonus.
Rule #1: Shoot what you carry, and carry what you shoot.
HoneyBadger
10-08-2014, 11:01
That's bullshit man! I don't even own a Hi-Point 45.
...Yet! ;)
...Yet! ;)
Won't happen. I like things that don't suck. Hence the Tacoma & the Crossfit. ;-)
HoneyBadger
10-08-2014, 12:36
Won't happen. I like things that don't suck. Hence the Tacoma & the Crossfit. ;-)
Your Tacoma isn't light blue, is it? I wouldn't want you to get shot by LAPD while you're out delivering the newpapers doing crossfit!
ETA: Hey Mods, can we get a smiley that throws a can of gasoline on a fire? ;)
ETA: Hey Mods, can we get a smiley that throws a can of gasoline on a fire? ;)
Make your own smilies, poster.
Your Tacoma isn't light blue, is it? I wouldn't want you to get shot by LAPD while you're out delivering the newpapers doing crossfit!
ETA: Hey Mods, can we get a smiley that throws a can of gasoline on a fire? ;)
No sir. Doo doo brown!
HoneyBadger
10-08-2014, 13:11
Make your own smilies, poster.
Ain't nobody got time fo dat!
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