striker fired pistols.. best out right now.

[tim-adams]

Looking for a new "full size" 9mm pistol trying to stay at the 15 round cap for ease of ownership.

I am considering
price
available accessories (custom kydex is not cheap)
upgrade parts (threaded barrel? extended and ported? better trigger?
reliability/name

kind of down to the following guns:
XDm full size (I do like my XDm, but not as much holster support as i would like) mags = $28 (base mag is 19, so issue here)
$620 with three mags that I lose. :-( trijicon HD $165 (have to find 15 round mag's for it)
G19 (lots of glock lovers, but all the ones I fire the trigger feels like crude) mags=$22 can you fix/tweak the trigger?
$550 with 2 mags. +4 mags $90 + trigger $25 +trijicon HD $165 g17 comes with 17 round mags soo blahhh
PPQ m2 (the buzz is loud, for comfort, and trigger) I expect accessories to be nonexistent, mags = $30 held one and it was wow nice in my hand, never fired..
$600 with 2 mags +4 mags $120 trijicon HD $165

HK vp9
$600 with 2 mags +4 mags $200

also thought about these but zero trigger time with them
S&W M&P held one,a nd it felt good
CZ-75/85 never even held one..

[stenz]

I like the XDm's. Find a way to get the high cap mags... there are ways.

[ray1970]

Might not meet all of your criteria but I'd probably get an HK VP9.

[nisils14]

I went with M&P and haven't regretted it since. Trigger is pretty terrible, but I thought it would be much worse. I put in a full Apex trigger kit and it is easily one of the best triggers, with other platforms in consideration.
Of the three, The glock will have the most of everything, they're the gold standard in polymer strike fired pistols. The price is even more attractive if you're able to utilize blue label (LEO/MIL) pricing.

[blacklabel]

Right now I'd go with a Glock. I love my m&p but magazines are hard to come by

[trlcavscout]

Might not meet all of your criteria but I'd probably get an HK VP9.

that is a good one. I almost bought one, the grip is nice!

[cstone]

SIG P320 is a striker. I have the hammer version P250. Glocks are the only striker fired handguns I own.

[Zman]

S&W must have just opened the flood gates on mags. Got some .40 full size and Shield .40 for ~ $25 each. Natchez for mine.

z

[Tinelement]

Big fan of the M&P's. As Ray mentioned, next on my list is the VP9. Scared to walk in a gun store that carries them, wallet will be lighter.

[Great-Kazoo]

Trigger fix on a glock is time / labor for basic clean up. after that it's still cost efficient to upgrade a Glock than any other pistol. I had a M&P did the apex and it was very nice. However as mentioned full spectrum of Glock support for moderately less than anything else.

[ray1970]

I fondled one of the HK pistols at Ark Tactical. Felt very good in the hand and pointed very well for me. Might not be one in my immediate future but I'm sure one will eventually find it's way into my safe.

[Tinelement]

Didn't mention. I did the Apex triggers in the M&P's. Great upgrade.

Another good one to look into would be the Walther PPQ M2.

[KS63]

Deleted

[mcantar18c]

Count me in as a vote for Glock. More aftermarket, better availability of spare parts and mags, cheap, extremely reliable and more importantly a proven platform. Trigger on mine feels excellent after less than $10 and 30 min of polishing.
FWIW I carry a G19 daily.

[mtnrider]

PPQ M2 or H&K VP9 for me. If the VP9 had a traditional mag release I think it would come out on top for me but both are a close tie. (also still love my XDm's as well but those 2 fit like a glove.)

With that said, only use everyone's opinion as an opinion. What fits Joe Glock may not be the right pistol for you. Try and shoot them and judge for yourself.

[hurley842002]

I pretty much like everything about the M&P pistols, better than Glock (not to say I don't love Glocks), except for the fact that I shoot Glocks better, so I carry a G26. Maybe I need to try an Apex modified M&P.

[Great-Kazoo]

Didn't mention. I did the Apex triggers in the M&P's. Great upgrade.

Another good one to look into would be the Walther PPQ M2.


I pretty much like everything about the M&P pistols, better than Glock (not to say I don't love Glocks), except for the fact that I shoot Glocks better, so I carry a G26. Maybe I need to try an Apex modified M&P.

The Apex upgrade is well worth it and makes a noticeable difference.It was a good shooter, accurate. BUT why do i need to drop another $75 to get a trigger where you can feel the reset, when glock does that stock.

Better to shoot a few different guns before you end up with buyer remorse.

[sportbikeco]

Glock

[O2HeN2]

Glock 19. 15 rounds. Ironically [legally] they hold more than a Glock 17, since I haven't heard of any 15 round G17 mags, only 10 rounders. Anyone know otherwise?

O2

[tim-adams]

ok great stuff here...
I was not aware that the overall view was M&P triggers suck... I am cool with that, you just add the cost of an apex to the cost of the gun..
I got more HK votes than I expected, HK make quality firearms but the $$$ is rarely worth the small difference in quality to Glock/smith/Xdm

Kazoo hit this thread on the head.. if I want a good trigger buy a gun with a good trigger.. same for feel in hand, its hard to change how a gun feels in your hand..

vote stands at

CZ-75 no love
XDm 2 I have a compact I love it, it is my carry gun not a lot of aftermarket, and accessories for it
PPQ^2 2 I hear this fits the hand like a HK, but has a trigger like a single action 1911 (I expect minimal or expensive aftermarket parts) $$$$$$$$
HK vp9 3 cost is a big deterrent here, I have fired varies HK's the mil spec trigger always sucks the gun runs like a champ. but the $$$$$$ (also to fix the trigger is $$$$$)
M&P 3 bad trigger, so buy an apex, and price of mags is dropping..
glock 19 6 mostly I was seeing the huge number of these makes aftermarket parts easy to get, the the trigger can be made lovely with $25 connector and some dremmel polishing.

so I need to go re test a glock 19 and see how it fits in my hand and if I like the natural point.. Also the M&P I have never fired one, need to do that, and see where it leads me.
the cost of these is pretty much a wash I think.. the advantage goes to glock for after market parts.

more thoughts?

[mtnrider]

All of those pistol can be found for within about $50 of each other so not sure why you think some are $$$$ ?

[sellersm]

Tim, you've received great advice and have a good summary. Bottom line, as you mentioned, is how it fits you. No good way to fix a gun that doesn't naturally point well in your hand. Only other thing I'd add is the long-term picture: reliability, replacement parts, what-it-takes-to-keep-it-running, etc. From my experience, Glock fits the bill nicely, but even with my Glock, I've got some spare parts. I really like my XDm, but I've read too many stories and seen too many 'cheap' parts (like that stupid roll pin at the top of the slide) that cause me to not view that gun as a long-term, reliable firearm. So, I've got a bunch of spare parts for it to keep it running.

Good luck in your quest, half the fun is trying out all the available contenders!!

[funkymonkey1111]

if you're not wed to the 9, buds has a pretty good deal on full size .40 cal M&Ps

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/1089/products_id/411555599/TEAM+BUDS+FAST+TRACK

[davsel]

G19
Ghost 3.5 connector
Dawson Precision Sights
Done

[tim-adams]

All of those pistol can be found for within about $50 of each other so not sure why you think some are $$$$ ?
most of the cost difference is in the mag cost and if you expect to have to change something when you buy it.. edit: also some accessories pricing is shocking

buy a gun thats trigger sucks?? I add in the cost of a trigger upgrade, buy a gun with a fabulious trigger no need to upgrade compare costs..
its TCO applied to firearms, I do it with all my guns..

sometimes its easer to just buy a 1k rifle with everthing you want, rather than a $650 rifle and put $300 in parts into it.. my time is worth $50..
make sense?
its the buy a Honda and upgrade or just buy an Acura?

[ray1970]

The VP9 isn't expensive like the other HK pistols. I've seen them new for under $600. Also, the trigger isn't too bad right out of the box. If I pick one up before you make your decision you're welcome to shoot it.

[KS63]

A striker fired CZ-75? Never heard of it. You mean CZ 110?

[Irving]

CZ makes great guns. None with cheap mags, and most aren't striker fired though.

[tim-adams]

G19
Ghost 3.5 connector
Dawson Precision Sights ( will have to read reviews here, I was thinking the more expensive Trijicon HD)
Done
does the g19 g4 come with a metal guide rod?

but that is the list of items I have come up with..
to many forum posts saying yes buy the ghost connector with your gun, put it in, enjoy
new sights Natch..
and if it has a polymer guide rod, its gone.

[KS63]

Any particular reason why only striker fired? Seems like a good, crips trigger with a short reset quite important to you (it is for me) and hammer fired pistols tend to have "better" trigger attributes. Every one of the mentioned pistols have Negatives. What's most important to you? If it's a great trigger-1911 all the way. Reliability, parts availability, decent $$-Glock. The best polymer pistol that I've shot is a CZ P 07. Bought it for $440, (2) 15rd mags with a decent DA/SA hammer fire trigger that's upgradable. I'll throw $$ all day long at a weapon that suits me.

[mcantar18c]

As for how they fit in your hand... polymer is malleable with the proper amount of heat. I reshaped the grip on my 19 and it was actually very easy.

[tim-adams]

CZ makes great guns. None with cheap mags, and most aren't striker fired though.
shows you what I know about CZ right?? ok, so thinking I will pass on CZ this buying cycle, educate myself and see if I can find one for a few mags of trigger time.
always next year. :-)

just checked the price on HK vp9 mags.. ouch $47-50 before shipping x4 $200 puts this at about $960

cost is important but, the feel is critical, nothing sells a gun like trigger time, when you just go WOW that fits my hand so nice..
at that point I have to look at price and say gits like a glove? $xxx more??

I think I need to shoot the g19, the M&P, and if possible the PPQ, and HK
the PPQ is basicly the same look and style as the HK, but supposedly with the best stock striker fired trigger..

please Ray let me know, I will help feed your HK through break in.. :-)

[Doc45]

Well this old 1911 guy is now a converted M&P fan, got a screaming deal on a used/unfired a few months back after having a Compact for over a year. A friend does textured backstraps, put on the Ameriglo "i dot" sights and the Apex duty/carry kit. Ran it through 2 classes and carry it almost every day. Green Mountain Guns had a bunch of the 15rd mags a couple of weeks ago too.

[tim-adams]

Any particular reason why only striker fired? Seems like a good, crips trigger with a short reset quite important to you (it is for me) and hammer fired pistols tend to have "better" trigger attributes. Every one of the mentioned pistols have Negatives. What's most important to you? If it's a great trigger-1911 all the way. Reliability, parts availability, decent $$-Glock. The best polymer pistol that I've shot is a CZ P 07. Bought it for $440, (2) 15rd mags with a decent DA/SA hammer fire trigger that's upgradable. I'll throw $$ all day long at a weapon that suits me.

I have a 1911 that is a custom assembly of milspec parts had it for 20+ years now and I love it, will not sell it for nothing, but it has lost the, weight, round count, battle so its a home defense/ range gun now.
for the longest time I avoided striker fired because they where so far away from where the trigger on my 1911 was, and the grip did not feel good, a few years ago I picked up a XDm compact 9mm at Tanners and was instantly sold. it just felt "right" the trigger was good for a striker, and as expected it has smoothed some with rounds and dry firing, this is my carry gun. Now i want another 9mm, to attach a light to, for home defense and to use for classes.

I initially thought striker fired, for simplicity, they are the essence of easy, and its my belief that this is where the market is moving in spades.. for a tactical gun, I don't really want to modify it very much. I want to keep it mostly stock, so if I ever have to defense my actions in court the firearm is a nonstarter.

I will look into the CZ's just never held or shot one before

[HoneyBadger]

Tim, you've received great advice and have a good summary. Bottom line, as you mentioned, is how it fits you. No good way to fix a gun that doesn't naturally point well in your hand.
Best advice in this whole thread.

Glocks work for me, but they might not work for you. Don't get all bent out of shape over it. [Beer]

[KS63]

I recently held the HK VP9 and it has a different feel them my HK P30. Super comfy and I would put the ergos on par with the Walther, but I'd give the nod to the Walther for the better trigger.

[mtnrider]

just checked the price on HK vp9 mags.. ouch $47-50 before shipping x4 $200 puts this at about $960



$42.99 ($3.99 shipping) Look for P30 mags, same thing
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2391154437/hk-magazine-hk-p30-9mm-luger-steel-blue

PPQ mags are about the same. XDm mags are about $3 cheaper. M&P/Glock mags will be about $10 cheaper but your M&P will be harder to source because they are evil (but not imposable to get)

So your looking at roughly $40(ish) difference worst case for 4 mags. Well worth it if it's a better pistol for you.

Also you can find the VP9 for $599 (+tax) so your looking at more like $800 total not $960

[ray1970]

Since the 1911 has been brought up, here's my take on a few of the polymer/striker fired pieces in comparison.

For me at least.....

The XD/XDM platform points and feels very 1911 like. Even has the grip safety. With some of the aftermarket trigger parts available, you can get a trigger with little take up, over travel, and reset.

The M&P also has a similar grip angle and points like a 1911 to me. The Apex trigger stuff is pretty nice but other than their forward set sear kit you will still have a fair amount of take up but a decent break and little over travel and a short reset.

The Glock has a totally different grip angle and points totally different than the others. You will also have a fair amount of trigger take up even with the replacement connectors. There are replacement triggers that will be better if you don't mind spending a decent amount to get them.

This is all my own personal opinion and your mileage may vary.

[tim-adams]

As for how they fit in your hand... polymer is malleable with the proper amount of heat. I reshaped the grip on my 19 and it was actually very easy.

what are the limits to actually reshaping?

[tim-adams]

Best advice in this whole thread.
glocks work for me, but they might not work for you. Don't get all bent out of shape over it. [Beer]

+1
that is the next phase, I am building my list of what to test fire.

[mcantar18c]

what are the limits to actually reshaping?
I was able to almost completely remove the palm swell making it close to flat (more 1911-like) using the candle method. You can go further with the epoxy method but that also has it's downsides. I also reduced the overall size significantly with grinding/shaving/sanding/stippling. I have small hands... the Gen 4 with no backstrap felt big and uncomfortable to me, now it feels great.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/23/zubynate.jpg

[mtnrider]

As for how they fit in your hand... polymer is malleable with the proper amount of heat. I reshaped the grip on my 19 and it was actually very easy.

So this can be a good or BAD thing.
I have a M&P 9 that the frame appears to be too soft and it actually changes shape with temp. It contracts in the winter and squeeze's the mags and they won't drop free. I can simulate by throwing the pistol in the freezer for a few minutes. It's been back to S&W 2 times already and they still haven't fixed it. Very frustrating to shoot in the winter when the temps drop below 40. I am not the only one with this problem either. Iv'e seen several reports of the same issue from people that own the FDE (Cabela's) version of the gun.

Point is, be careful "re-shaping" with heat. You may cause some other ill effects.

[sellersm]

Wow, mcantar18c, that picture should come with a warning to all Glock lovers! [Coffee]

Seriously, that's an amazing transformation!

[mcantar18c]

Point is, be careful "re-shaping" with heat. You may cause some other ill effects.
Absolutely. It's easy to screw something up if you're not paying attention. That said, read a couple write ups and get a good feel for what you're doing and unless you're an idiot you should be fine.
As for the magwell issue, I pulled the follower and spring out of a mag and replaced it with a saturated sponge, then threw it in the freezer overnight. Kept it in the magwell while I was heating and reshaping. Worked pretty well.

[mcantar18c]

Wow, mcantar18c, that picture should come with a warning to all Glock lovers! [Coffee]

Seriously, that's an amazing transformation!

All the reliability and ugliness of a normal Glock but without the discomfort [Tooth]

[tim-adams]

I was able to almost completely remove the palm swell making it close to flat (more 1911-like) using the candle method. You can go further with the epoxy method but that also has it's downsides. I also reduced the overall size significantly with grinding/shaving/sanding/stippling. I have small hands... the Gen 4 with no backstrap felt big and uncomfortable to me, now it feels great.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/23/zubynate.jpg

wow +1
if I buy the glock can we talk~!!!
I guess I could stipple up my XDm as well, hmmmm may have to look into that..

[Irving]

Did you already read this thread?

https://www.ar-15.co/threads/132069-CZ-75-ACCU-Shadow-Lite-review

[mcantar18c]

wow +1
if I buy the glock can we talk~!!!
I guess I could stipple up my XDm as well, hmmmm may have to look into that..
Thanks.
As far as I know that can be done to just about any polymer frame. Hell I figured out how to stipple using some pmags. I'd be glad to help out any way I can if you go that route.

[tim-adams]

ok I have a touch smaller than average sized hands, previously the glock 17 and the Beretta 92 just feel terrible in my hands..
I have not shot a glock in many years, gen2 I think, I disliked the feel and the trigger sucked out loud.. now I am seeing that some feeling issues can be "managed" and the trigger can also be managed as well..
good to know..

my shoot list:
#1 glock 19
#2 full size M&P
#3 a PPQ if one can be found to rent
#4 a HK ditto not optimistic (have to make some calls)

another question: I have been told that glock will run the cheapest Russian steal case, what about the other three?

[tim-adams]

Thanks.
As far as I know that can be done to just about any polymer frame. Hell I figured out how to stipple using some pmags. I'd be glad to help out any way I can if you go that route.

oh that is an epic Idea.. I can practice stippling my pmags and after feeling good move on to the XDm.. [Beer]
for stippling wood burner or sodering iron?
what is the temp range I am looking for?
I will go check youtube as well, you can learn how to do almost anything there.

[tim-adams]

Did you already read this thread?

https://www.ar-15.co/threads/132069-CZ-75-ACCU-Shadow-Lite-review

reading now..

[mcantar18c]

Now bear in mind, different manufacturers use different blends of plastics and so they melt, stipple, etc. slightly differently. PMAGs just "felt" different then the Glock polymer under the soldering iron. I used a battery powered one from Radio Shack, was the hottest one they had and only cost $20 or so. I went through like 4 or 5 sets of batteries doing the Glock.
As for ammo, I can't speak to the others but my Gen 4 19 eats everything I throw at it, steel case or otherwise.

[Gman]

I'll throw in my vote for the PPQ. There are aftermarket barrels, sights, and lots of holster options. A number of those also fit the P99. Mags are about $30 and are not difficult to find. There's not much that isn't right on the PPQ right out of the box.

I prefer the Classic/M1, but I understand why you would want an M2. The trigger guard release is familiar to me since I have a couple of SW99s in the safe.


http://youtu.be/iD4WBxQlaN0

[tim-adams]

Did you already read this thread?

https://www.ar-15.co/threads/132069-CZ-75-ACCU-Shadow-Lite-review

ARRRRRGGGHHHHH Irving you tempt me so badly.... but but but that sucker costs $1400
maybe my next gun, I need to shoot a few CZ's I guess.

[tim-adams]

I'll throw in my vote for the PPQ. There are aftermarket barrels, sights, and lots of holster options. A number of those also fit the P99. Mags are about $30 and are not difficult to find. There's not much that isn't right on the PPQ right out of the box.

I prefer the Classic/M1, but I understand why you would want an M2. The trigger guard release is familiar to me since I have a couple of SW99s in the safe.

I have used levers from HK's before, I think I need to feel a PPQm1 or M2... see how it feels in my hand..
sounds like all the guns I am looking at can be "shaped" to a point

[Irving]

I don't think you HAVE to buy the $1,400 one. There are a bunch of variations of the CZ-75.

[roberth]

The Sig P320 is getting good reviews.

[MarkCO]

The PPQs have been very impressive. I prefer the M&Ps over the XDs and Glocks. The new FNS is worthy of a look or two as well.

[mtnrider]

my shoot list:
#1 glock 19
#2 full size M&P
#3 a PPQ if one can be found to rent
#4 a HK ditto not optimistic (have to make some calls)

another question: I have been told that glock will run the cheapest Russian steal case, what about the other three?

I own guns #2, #3, and #4 and have shot cheap Russian steal case through them with no problem. Not a lot of rounds, but a few. I much as I want to like Glocks the truth is they just don't work for me and have sold every one I have purchased. The grip angle is just wrong for me.

Someone else mentioned the FNS (which I also own). Maybe worth a look? Mags may be tougher to source for that one just like the M&P full size but not imposable.

.

[mcantar18c]

I own guns #2, #3, and #4 and have shot cheap Russian steal case through them with no problem. Not a lot of rounds, but a few. I much as I want to like Glocks the truth is they just don't work for me and have sold every one I have purchased. The grip angle is just wrong for me.

Someone else mentioned the FNS (which I also own). Maybe worth a look? Mags may be tougher to source for that one just like the M&P full size but not imposable.

.

Common misconception. Glocks don't have a funny grip angle, in fact it's actually a very natural-pointing one. The problem is in the palm swell, the lower portion of the backstrap that bulges out ends up forcing the muzzle higher instead of forcing your wrist downward. Prior to modifying mine, the front sight would be almost an inch higher than the rear on a blind draw... afterwards there was an immediate improvement and it is now perfectly level.

[mtnrider]

Common misconception. Glocks don't have a funny grip angle, in fact it's actually a very natural-pointing one. The problem is in the palm swell, the lower portion of the backstrap that bulges out ends up forcing the muzzle higher instead of forcing your wrist downward. Prior to modifying mine, the front sight would be almost an inch higher than the rear on a blind draw... afterwards there was an immediate improvement and it is now perfectly level.

Whatever you call it, it doesn't work for me :-)

[MarkCO]

RE posts #60 and 61...thus the advice by many to shoot them first. I shot Glocks for a long time, and my "natural POA" was thus modified due to many years of use. But it only took a few months to get back to "neutral" and then pick up some speed using the M&Ps.

[tim-adams]

I own guns #2, #3, and #4 and have shot cheap Russian steal case through them with no problem. Not a lot of rounds, but a few. I much as I want to like Glocks the truth is they just don't work for me and have sold every one I have purchased. The grip angle is just wrong for me.

Someone else mentioned the FNS (which I also own). Maybe worth a look? Mags may be tougher to source for that one just like the M&P full size but not imposable.

.

Thanks for the info, the FN's and Sig's I classified as (sexy but $$$$$)
I also picked up a FN 5.7 and did not like the feel in my hand, pretty big, also the 5.7 is very expensive to feed $.40 + per round..

[KS63]

Is the pistol for Range Only or for CCW. Don't remember you mentioning it's intended use.

[sellersm]

Thanks for the info, the FN's and Sig's I classified as (sexy but $$$$$)
I also picked up a FN 5.7 and did not like the feel in my hand, pretty big, also the 5.7 is very expensive to feed $.40 + per round..

The FNS (or the FNX or older FNP) aren't any more expensive than the others in your list.

[tim-adams]

Common misconception. Glocks don't have a funny grip angle, in fact it's actually a very natural-pointing one. The problem is in the palm swell, the lower portion of the backstrap that bulges out ends up forcing the muzzle higher instead of forcing your wrist downward. Prior to modifying mine, the front sight would be almost an inch higher than the rear on a blind draw... afterwards there was an immediate improvement and it is now perfectly level.

I had heard of this, coming from 1911 and XDm I am not sure the glock is going to point right for me, straight out of the box..
so long as the price point is close and the reliability is up there, its just got to feel good..

i do not trash talk those guns or that gun.. everyone is built a bit differently, length of fingers, size of palm, natural wrist angle, guns are build with different ergonomics and sizing to attract customers who find that sizing/feel best for them..

what I am hearing is I am looking at the right guns, the price points are somewhat varied but the top three are pretty close (g19, M&P, PPQ) (have to check the leaver mag release)

[tim-adams]

Is the pistol for Range Only or for CCW. Don't remember you mentioning it's intended use.

its for a perm light mount and going on a tactical belt.. not carry..

[Irving]

i do not trash talk those guns or that gun.. everyone is built a bit differently, length of fingers, size of palm, natural wrist angle, guns are build with different ergonomics and sizing to attract customers who find that sizing/feel best for them..



http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Jorge-arm-655x660.jpg

It took me a long time to be able to shoot my M&P well. I think that is more a reflection of my desire to shoot well, than it is a reflection of the gun though.

[MarkCO]

I am not sure guys who have the arms and hands surgically altered and or hyperextended (Llames) to get the "perfect fit" is what the OP is after though.

[Irving]

I am not sure guys who have the arms and hands surgically altered and or hyperextended (Llames) to get the "perfect fit" is what the OP is after though.

For the record, he only holds his arm like that so people won't notice his visor.

[cofi]

After putting 1000 rounds through a vp9 I came to realize it didn't do anything really better then my my glock 19 with a - connector

[mtnrider]

Thanks for the info, the FN's and Sig's I classified as (sexy but $$$$$)
I also picked up a FN 5.7 and did not like the feel in my hand, pretty big, also the 5.7 is very expensive to feed $.40 + per round..

You need to do a little more research on pricing. Several guns you assume are $$$$ are in the same price range as everything else your looking at.

FNS and Sig p320 (the striker fired Sig) are all in the same price range as your original list (all guns suggested are pretty much within $100 of each other cheapest to most expensive) The FN 5.7 is Nothing like a FNS.

[tim-adams]

For the record, he only holds his arm like that so people won't notice his visor.
full double jointed on the elbows, is my guess.. I agree the visor is a bit "much" wear a ball cap like the rest of us :-)

[tim-adams]

You need to do a little more research on pricing. Several guns you assume are $$$$ are in the same price range as everything else your looking at.

FNS and Sig p320 (the striker fired Sig) are all in the same price range as your original list (all guns suggested are pretty much within $100 of each other cheapest to most expensive) The FN 5.7 is Nothing like a FNS.

I will check into those two I know FN and Sig make quality bang.. but this really is why I started this thread, I only know what I know, and I am getting great information..
Everything from think about X to Y is great except you need to change Z


the FNS at buds nicely priced... but 17 round mags... :-( @ buds 5" black with nightsites for 525 with 5" stainless slide for 586... mags are a bit much but not crazy $44

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_245/products_id/91589/FNH+66726+FNS-9L+17%2B1+9mm+5%22

the sig 320 5" 556 mags 38-40..

I am having possible scope creep.. hmm

[mtnrider]

the FNS at buds nicely priced... but 17 round mags... :-(

Yeah, that is a bit of an issue. Same thing for the M&P, XDm's, Sig P320 (full size versions) :-(

I have not actually handled a Sig 320 yet, it's on my list to fondle :-) If it's anything size wise like the other Sig pistols it's probably not going to fit my hand very well. They tend to be better suited for larger hands.

[tim-adams]

Yeah, that is a bit of an issue. Same thing for the M&P, XDm's, Sig P320 (full size versions) :-(

I have not actually handled a Sig 320 yet, it's on my list to fondle :-) If it's anything size wise like the other Sig pistols it's probably not going to fit my hand very well. They tend to be better suited for larger hands.
the sig comment meets some of my experiences as well.
I think I will go down to cabala's(maybe bass pro) I expect they will have all these guns to hold and that should allow me to narrow my scope.

I am developing a concern over the FNS-9 about the trigger sucking, and nothing exists (other than $175 gunsmith fee) to fix it.
extreme take-up and large resets are not something I want to move into.

[Aloha_Shooter]

See what works for you. I am particularly fond of the M&P series but the XD-S is a nice strike-fired analog to the 1911.

At this point in time, my list in order of preference is:
1. M&P Shield 9
2. M&P Shield 40
3. M&P 9c
4. XD-S 9
5. 1911

The M&P Shield line is crazy affordable. I wish I'd ordered some spare mags when MidwayUSA had them for $26.66 each a couple months ago; now you're looking at $31-33 a piece for spare mags.

[Irving]

M&P Shield is next on my "to buy" list for sure.

[ray1970]

I'm slightly more excited about the S&W Shield now that they make one without the silly thumb safety.

[Planner]

Looking for a new "full size" 9mm pistol trying to stay at the 15 round cap for ease of ownership.

I am considering
price
available accessories (custom kydex is not cheap)
upgrade parts (threaded barrel? extended and ported? better trigger?
reliability/name

kind of down to the following guns:
XDm full size (I do like my XDm, but not as much holster support as i would like) mags = $28 (base mag is 19, so issue here)
$620 with three mags that I lose. :-( trijicon HD $165 (have to find 15 round mag's for it)
G19 (lots of glock lovers, but all the ones I fire the trigger feels like crude) mags=$22 can you fix/tweak the trigger?
$550 with 2 mags. +4 mags $90 + trigger $25 +trijicon HD $165 g17 comes with 17 round mags soo blahhh
PPQ m2 (the buzz is loud, for comfort, and trigger) I expect accessories to be nonexistent, mags = $30 held one and it was wow nice in my hand, never fired..
$600 with 2 mags +4 mags $120 trijicon HD $165

HK vp9
$600 with 2 mags +4 mags $200

also thought about these but zero trigger time with them
S&W M&P held one,a nd it felt good
CZ-75/85 never even held one..

I've got a G19, XDm 4.5" and 3.8", PPQ M2, and XDs. Sold my M&P.

Willing to meet locally if you want to test fire, just PM me. Hands down, the best factory trigger i have is on the PPQ M2. I've got the Springer Precision trigger in my XDm and that is my Production class gun. I shot the PPQ in Production previously. The PPQ is phenomenal, but I'd be hard pressed to say which is better when considering the XDm and PPQ. Of my group, G19 would be first to go (and it has a bit of trigger work as well).

[cstone]

For anyone who is interested in the SIG P320, here is complete break down video.


http://youtu.be/YHlQTUnN3QA

[Fmedges]

I am between the Sig p320 and the VP9 myself. I like the ergs of the VP9, but the ability to change sizes and calibers of the p320 seems like it would be a good feature to have. Both are reasonably priced and I go back and forth on the issue.

[tim-adams]

Ok going out of town on the 8th of Nov so no Tanners for me (the other likely place to handle/buy all these handguns)
so I went to Cabellas today, and did some fit and feel..

from feel, flexibility, trigger ^=up #= splat
M&P CORE ^^# felt really good, 5" (not sure if CORE is requried) Trigger was as expected, bad
PPQm2 ^#^ felt good in the hand, the trigger was WOW!!
FNS-9 ^## the grip texture is kind of weird but seems to work, the point was nice, the trigger is terrible, worse than the M&P (and there is no apex kit for it) :-(
HK vp9 ^## grip felt good, trigger was smooth take up but extremely heavy break, did not like the leaver mag release..
g19 #^# trigger was not bad, feel still blah.. (still not a fan)
sig 320 ### did not feel good in my hands. trigger was very much mil spec, power lifting.

I guess I am a picky bastard..

was talking to a guy I met at the counter, he mentioned that the M&P can do the same trick that Glock does..
where you buy a 40 (shares mags with 357sig).. buy a 9mm barrel, and 9mm mags and have two or three (if you buy a 357sig barrel) calibers capable.
Any one know if the PPQm2 can do the 40 >> 9mm step down? (Google says no..)

I think I am going to hunt down a M&P and a PPQm2 to test fire.

[mtnrider]

What did you think of the P320? Did it feel as big as the other Sigs? I have yet to actually see one.

[tim-adams]

What did you think of the P320? Did it feel as big as the other Sigs? I have yet to actually see one.

yeah it was just a tad big for my hands, I did like the insets on the first finger/thumb line, just did not speak to me..
feel of the slide on the frame was like WOW that is some serious machining, like glass...
Trigger was milspec heavy... I would be shocked if that was a 7.5 pull..

[roberth]

I've handled a couple of P320s, I like them alot, feel almost like my P226/P229, I have large hands though. The P320 is building a really good rep for itself. The VP9 is supposed to be pretty good too, I haven't seen one yet though.

[rustycrusty]

Here's a different question to ask yourself-

what are the best shooters in the world (or the world you care about) shooting? I look at USPSA and IPSC.
-I believe there's a reason why so few people at the top shoot XD's- because it's harder to win with them. They have a VERY terrible slide weight and height over bore which translates into harder to manage recoil in any caliber to caliber comparison with most other models. HK is guilty of this too, IMO.

I look to the top competitor's choices to start my search. Out of those guns present (a shitload of glocks, M&Ps, and 1911s in extreme customized format) I look at what are in use by LE and MIL communities (much less at mil because pistol is not their game...)

Next, I look at what's got the best rep for reliability.

In in my reasoning I was left with Glock and M&P.

Glock aftermarket trigger parts parts abound and most are less than $50
M&P has the APEX trigger ~$150? Dunno- pricey.

If if you take both guns down you might think that the M&P is a slighly more complicated copy of the glock...

That's why I like my glocks. If I had to sell all but 1 pistol I would choose my g19 for everything every time.

[rustycrusty]

BTW...

the 'feels in hand' bullshit...

it's like buying a car... For comfortable seats... Not even talking about how the ride feels... Just sitting in the car in the dealership showroom... With the engine off...

Shooting characteristics of a gun have just about dick to do with comfort in hands... This is coming from a smaller glock fan- 5'9" who can fit small latex gloves

[ray1970]

I laughed at post #87.

"I look at what all the cool kids are shooting and I want to be like them so I shoot what they shoot."

[roberth]

I laughed at post #87.

"I look at what all the cool kids are shooting and I want to be like them so I shoot what they shoot."

After years of helping people find a gun they like and listening to them after their range trips I'm laughing at #88.

[rustycrusty]

Don't you want to hang out with the cool kids?

[davsel]

Here's a different question to ask yourself-

what are the best shooters in the world (or the world you care about) shooting? I look at USPSA and IPSC.
-I believe there's a reason why so few people at the top shoot XD's- because it's harder to win with them. They have a VERY terrible slide weight and height over bore which translates into harder to manage recoil in any caliber to caliber comparison with most other models. HK is guilty of this too, IMO.

I look to the top competitor's choices to start my search. Out of those guns present (a shitload of glocks, M&Ps, and 1911s in extreme customized format) I look at what are in use by LE and MIL communities (much less at mil because pistol is not their game...)

Next, I look at what's got the best rep for reliability.

In in my reasoning I was left with Glock and M&P.

Glock aftermarket trigger parts parts abound and most are less than $50
M&P has the APEX trigger ~$150? Dunno- pricey.

If if you take both guns down you might think that the M&P is a slighly more complicated copy of the glock...

That's why I like my glocks. If I had to sell all but 1 pistol I would choose my g19 for everything every time.

Agree 99% - I'd keep a G36

[spqrzilla]

The "Cool Kids" get paid to shoot a gun. It may or may not be the gun that they actually think is "best". And sometimes the gun the "Cool Kids" have has been worked over extensively to make the Cool Kid happy.

Doesn't mean that the guns the CoolKids are shooting is bad.

[ray1970]

Don't you want to hang out with the cool kids?
The cool kids won't let me hang out with them. I think they're jealous because I'm smarter than them and better looking.

[Coffee]

(Hope you didn't take offense to me finding humor in your post. I understand where you were going with it. Just struck me funny the way it came across.)

[Beer]

[buffalobo]

The cool kids won't let me hang out with them. I think they're jealous because I'm smarter than them and better looking.

[Coffee]

(Hope you didn't take offense to me finding humor in your post. I understand where you were going with it. Just struck me funny the way it came across.)

[Beer]
We invite you to hang out one day a month and pretty much all of us shoot Glocks or M&Ps. [emoji12] [emoji6]

[rustycrusty]

No offense taken.
Just wanted OP to know that glocks are THE BEST OF THE BEST OF THE BEST... And M&Ps are alright too.

and if they don't fit his hands it's because God made his hands wrong...

[cstone]

SIG P229

It is what the really cool kids carry...and it isn't striker fired [Flower]

[hurley842002]

SIG P229

It is what the really cool kids carry...and it isn't striker fired [Flower]
I'd still love to try out a 224, unfortunately the price prohibits it. They look like pretty sweet little CCW pistols.

[Gman]

Agree 99% - I'd keep a G36
Funny you mention the G36. It's the only Glock that comfortably fits my hand (which apparently wasn't built using the universal template). I'm a fan.

...but I really love my PPQ M1.

[Planner]

We met up first week of Nov and he was able to test fire my PPQ M2, rent an M&P and shoot my full size XDm, all in 9mm. Had a G19 available as well, but it just does not float his boat.

Personally, in this whole 'shoot what the pros shoot' mindset discussion, I prefer to 'shoot how the pros shoot'. I think KC Eusebio (for example) would kill it with my XDm 4.5", because he's good fundamentally. You could drop a CZ SP01 Shadow in my hands next match and I could not shoot a better score, not because the gun isn't fantastic, but because I am not. So, details like fit in hand, stock trigger pull, and aesthetic appeal do matter to the average joe.

Stay safe, stay warm, and shoot what makes you happy. FWIW, I will be offloading my G19 and PPQ. XDm for me (and a new compound bow with proceeds!).

[sellersm]

I've handled a couple of P320s, I like them alot, feel almost like my P226/P229, I have large hands though. The P320 is building a really good rep for itself. The VP9 is supposed to be pretty good too, I haven't seen one yet though.

The new issue of GUNS magazine has a write-up of the new P320. Connor really likes it...

[tim-adams]

We met up first week of Nov and he was able to test fire my PPQ M2, rent an M&P and shoot my full size XDm, all in 9mm. Had a G19 available as well, but it just does not float his boat.

Personally, in this whole 'shoot what the pros shoot' mindset discussion, I prefer to 'shoot how the pros shoot'. I think KC Eusebio (for example) would kill it with my XDm 4.5", because he's good fundamentally. You could drop a CZ SP01 Shadow in my hands next match and I could not shoot a better score, not because the gun isn't fantastic, but because I am not. So, details like fit in hand, stock trigger pull, and aesthetic appeal do matter to the average joe.

Stay safe, stay warm, and shoot what makes you happy. FWIW, I will be offloading my G19 and PPQ. XDm for me (and a new compound bow with proceeds!).


yeah great shooting with you.. the PPQ m2 is a sweet sweet carry gun.. but that is the not the slot I am filling with this purchase..

its looking like a a M&P (yes with a serious trigger job) or a XDM (not sure what to do with the trigger, likely some polishing)

[XC700116]

yeah great shooting with you.. the PPQ m2 is a sweet sweet carry gun.. but that is the not the slot I am filling with this purchase..

its looking like a a M&P (yes with a serious trigger job) or a XDM (not sure what to do with the trigger, likely some polishing)

Powder River Precision offers a trigger kit for the XDm that's pretty decent, I have one in my 5.25" XDm 40 and after I figured out that I needed to shave off a bit of the trigger stop it's been great. Been very happy with it. I haven't shot an M&P with a good trigger kit/job done to it so I can't tell you which is better on that aspect though.