View Full Version : It's started...... NYPD attacked by jihadist...
clublights
10-23-2014, 21:50
Looks like they are attacking in the US now too
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/23/us/new-york-police-attacked/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
Carry , keep your head up, eyes out, and be safe out there kids.....
Time to play cowboys and "radical muslims".....
gnihcraes
10-23-2014, 21:51
Yup.
clublights
10-23-2014, 21:58
Incase anyone doesn't get the Cowboys and Muslims reference....
Three strangers strike up a conversation in the airport passenger lounge in Bozeman, Montana, awaiting their flights. One is an American Indian passing through from Lame Deer. Another is a Cowboy on his way to Billings for a livestock show and the third passenger is a fundamentalist Arab student, newly arrived at Montana State University from the Middle East.
Their discussion drifts to their diverse cultures. Soon, the two Westerners learn that the Arab is a devout, radical Muslim and the conversation falls into an uneasy lull.
The cowboy leans back in his chair, crosses his boots on a magazine table and tips his big sweat-stained hat forward over his face. The wind outside is blowing tumbleweeds around, and the old windsock is flapping; but still no plane comes.
Finally, the American Indian clears his throat and softly he speaks, "At one time here, my people were many, but sadly, now we are few."
The Muslim student raises an eyebrow and leans forward, "Once my people were few," he sneers, "and now we are many. Why do you suppose that is?"
The Montana cowboy shifts his toothpick to one side of his mouth and from the darkness beneath his Stetson says in a drawl,
"That's 'cause we ain't played Cowboys and Muslims yet, but I do believe it's a-comin'."
Incase anyone doesn't get the Cowboys and Muslims reference....
I love Bozeman layovers.
But to be serious, just a matter of time.
Sheesh. Might have to think about arming myself when I leave the house. Just in case.
I think I missed the part in the article where this was determined to be tied to Muslim radicals.
clublights
10-23-2014, 22:10
I think I missed the part in the article where this was determined to be tied to Muslim radicals.
in the video they talk about how they (the nypd) looked at his "social media" and it may have ties to radical islam.
I may have jumped the gun a bit but i'll stand by my statement till proven otherwise.
Every where else is saying the same thing. I did not watch the video.
What is it going to take before we get serious and shut them down?
Bunch of bed wetters.
What is it going to take before we get serious and shut them down?
We can't do that. It might offend someone or hurt their feelings. [facepalm]
What is it going to take before we get serious and shut them down?
Bunch of bed wetters.
How? Internment camps?
How? Internment camps?
51193
They want to kill us all.
Germany (through force) banned anything and everything pertaining to the Nazi party - under penalty of death.
Until we do the same with Muslims, we will just keep getting killed, little by little.
Is there another way? Think we will change their minds? It's them against everyone else. They made the rules, "with us or die."
Again, when will we stop fiddle farting around and finally recognize what we are up against, and do something about it?
First one to post "moderate Muslim" can kiss my ass.
mcantar18c
10-23-2014, 22:53
Looks like they are attacking in the US now too
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/23/us/new-york-police-attacked/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
Carry , keep your head up, eyes out, and be safe out there kids.....
Time to play cowboys and "fundamentalist muslims".....
FIFY
There's a crucial difference between "radical" and "fundamentalist"... they are not interchangeable.
As far as I'm concerned, we can't kill these people fast enough.
Our government will never do anything to stop these people. They are to worried about taking care of the rest the world and being everyone's friend. Well let me tell you something, the rest of the world doesn't like us let alone want to be our friend. Their will be a straw that breaks the camels back and this country will be at war within our own borders. It will happen when the wrong extremist fucks with an armed citizen on the wrong day, there will be blood spilled and they will cry out for justice against evil gun loving Americans. When nothing is done they will riot and protest only enraging us further and we will not be backed any further into the corner. True AMERICANS will take a stand with or WITHOUT our governments help. They may be radical Muslims, but I'm a Radical American that is sick of putting up with their bullshit.
thvigil11
10-23-2014, 23:27
I predict this thread will soon run away. IBTL
FIFY
There's a crucial difference between "radical" and "fundamentalist"... they are not interchangeable.
As far as I'm concerned, we can't kill these people fast enough.
So long as you don't call them the minority...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg
Two things stuck in my head (other than the actual attack):
"When asked about a possible connection to terrorism, Bratton said, "There is nothing we know as of this time that would indicate that were the case. I think certainly the heightened concern is relative to that type of assault based on what just happened in Canada.""
And:
"A 29-year-old bystander who was struck by a bullet in the lower back was also taken to a hospital. Her condition was not known."
51195 I found this jack ass while doing some searching on face book. Can't get a close enough look at his ID, but they are everywhere. Just so happens that this guy is being public about his views by his cover pic. Stay alert
Aardvark
10-24-2014, 05:57
These attacks seem to be increasing, or media is just paying attention. Either way, I don't think they'll suddenly stop either and that being the case, time to arm up and start carrying. If unable to carry a firearm due to the work area in my case, or laws of the land in NY'ers case, what's left to do? Curiously, haven't heard a peep from the mosques or muslim leaders...
hollohas
10-24-2014, 06:01
The US is just too PC to anything about this.
Anyone see the speech the Canadian PM gave? I caught a bit of it and basically he was saying that the problem is that these people are coming to Canada with no intention of ever becoming Canadians. He said the country needs to do more to increase Canadian nationalism. Basically, he said people that live there better well intend to become Canadians. I thought it was pretty good. They also had no problem immediately coming out and saying it was a Muslim terrorist.
I never thought I'd say this but Canadian leadership is doing a much better job with this than the US.
mcantar18c
10-24-2014, 06:13
So long as you don't call them the minority...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg
There is no majority, minority, good Muslim, moderate Muslim, whatever.
There are the Muslims who want to cut your head off... and there are the Muslims who want other Muslims to cut your head off.
That's it.
These attacks seem to be increasing, or media is just paying attention. Either way, I don't think they'll suddenly stop either and that being the case, time to arm up and start carrying. If unable to carry a firearm due to the work area in my case, or laws of the land in NY'ers case, what's left to do? Curiously, haven't heard a peep from the mosques or muslim leaders...
Concealed is concealed...
How? Internment camps?
That is a double-edged sword and we're lucky that after the Nisei were imprisoned during WWII other Americans weren't put in camps after WWII.
I don't want internment camps, we'll have to deal with the bad actors as they expose themselves. How do we deal with an Imam that just won't shut up about jihad, we can't deport him unless his visa is expired, if he is a citizen we cannot prevent him from preaching.
The key is education and promoting the freedoms laid out in The Constitution vs the enslavement of Islam. We need to take the schools back and start teaching The Constitution and why this country was formed.
mcantar18c
10-24-2014, 06:28
I don't want internment camps, we'll have to deal with the bad actors as they expose themselves. How do we deal with an Imam that just won't shut up about jihad, we can't deport him unless his visa is expired, if he is a citizen we cannot prevent him from preaching.
Preaching (or funding, engaging in, encouraging, or supporting in any way) jihad should be considered renouncing your citizenship and declaring war against the US. At that point you should be considered, at the very least, a target of opportunity.
hollohas
10-24-2014, 06:31
The dude in Canada tried to leave the country to join the terrorists. They wouldn't let him on a plane.
Rather than keeping known or wanabe Muslim terrorists on our soil, why not let them go? Heck, buy them a ticket. Fill a plane with em. Then when the jihad express is filled with wannabes and is over the Atlantic, perhaps it will end up like a Malaysian airlines flight...
That is a double-edged sword and we're lucky that after the Nisei were imprisoned during WWII other Americans weren't put in camps after WWII.
I don't want internment camps, we'll have to deal with the bad actors as they expose themselves. How do we deal with an Imam that just won't shut up about jihad, we can't deport him unless his visa is expired, if he is a citizen we cannot prevent him from preaching.
The key is education and promoting the freedoms laid out in The Constitution vs the enslavement of Islam. We need to take the schools back and start teaching The Constitution and why this country was formed.
I believe he was being sarcastic.
Preaching (or funding, engaging in, encouraging, or supporting in any way) jihad should be considered renouncing your citizenship and declaring war against the US. At that point you should be considered, at the very least, a target of opportunity.
No, because then we could intern every Democrat for voting against the constitution.
Whatever action applies to a single group will be applied to all groups.
Aloha_Shooter
10-24-2014, 08:41
FIFY
There's a crucial difference between "radical" and "fundamentalist"... they are not interchangeable.
As far as I'm concerned, we can't kill these people fast enough.
... and the "radical" label is the correct one. I think the mass media has taken to calling them "fundamentalist" as part of an effort to subtly tarnish fundamentalist Christians. It's the same tactic where the Left Wing media calls all tyrannies "right wing" despite their Socialist or Communist constructs.
So no, you didn't fix it for him, you made it wrong. These are radicals in every sense of the word. They want to overthrow existing governmental, social, and cultural institutions and replace them with their own. That's radical.
... and the "radical" label is the correct one. I think the mass media has taken to calling them "fundamentalist" as part of an effort to subtly tarnish fundamentalist Christians. It's the same tactic where the Left Wing media calls all tyrannies "right wing" despite their Socialist or Communist constructs.
So no, you didn't fix it for him, you made it wrong. These are radicals in every sense of the word. They want to overthrow existing governmental, social, and cultural institutions and replace them with their own. That's radical.
This is no different that what the Obama administration is doing right now, overthrowing the constitution.
Zundfolge
10-24-2014, 08:50
Looking at Islam historically it has been around for thousands of years, why are we all of the sudden the focus of attack for the last decade? Their beliefs prior to this time have remained the same, but the difference is they are able to organize and mobilize enough people to carry out attacks.
Islam has always been a belligerent ideology that didn't live peacefully with its neighbors. The main reason we're seeing them here now is that technology has allowed them to move here easier. 100 years ago they had to take a boat that took weeks to get here and once they got here there wasn't a PC culture that embraced them as they are, instead there was a melting pot that required them to assimilate.
As for the notion that anything we do against these people just encourages more recruiting and/or fans the flames, that is a tremendously arrogant position. To believe that these people have no motivations of their own and are only savages reacting to our hubris is just foolishness. It doesn't matter what we do they want us dead ... and they always have.
Islam is a supremacist ideology. The desire to kill all unbelievers and dominate the earth is hard wired into the ideology. It has always been that way and the reason we're seeing them go on the offensive now is that they are finally in a position to project their power (they did this before in the 1500s and 1600s and western civilization beat them back ... they've finally recovered enough to recommence their belligerence).
Oh and Islam hasn't been around for "thousands of years" ... its only about 1400 years old.
... and the "radical" label is the correct one. I think the mass media has taken to calling them "fundamentalist" as part of an effort to subtly tarnish fundamentalist Christians. It's the same tactic where the Left Wing media calls all tyrannies "right wing" despite their Socialist or Communist constructs.
So no, you didn't fix it for him, you made it wrong. These are radicals in every sense of the word. They want to overthrow existing governmental, social, and cultural institutions and replace them with their own. That's radical.
I agree that leftists calling them "fundamentalist" is indeed an effort to tarnish "fundamentalist" Christians (just as the term "Neo-Conervative" is meant to subtuly link conservatives and neo-nazis ... Progressives play games with language).
However calling violent Islamists "fundamentalist" instead of "radical" is actually a more accurate description.
A "radical" is one that takes an existing ideology and twists it into something else (often to justify violence). A "fundamentalist" is one that takes an existing ideology very seriously and literally. THIS is what violent Islamists are doing. Actually in the context of Islam, being peaceful and getting along with non Muslims when you're in a position of power is actually a "radical" idea.
Great-Kazoo
10-24-2014, 08:58
Have i missed anything ?
DavieD55
10-24-2014, 09:06
folks tend to underestimate the depth of the islamist movement in the USA and just how deep the root of the problem goes with those people and their theocracy.
http://youtu.be/AiuUiYtI5kA
Aloha_Shooter
10-24-2014, 09:31
This is no different that what the Obama administration is doing right now, overthrowing the constitution.
Yep. Anyone who has taken even a single class in political science and isn't a dedicated anti-Western/anti-American/Marxist would recognize that Obama is a radical and filled his administration with radicals.
Oh and Islam hasn't been around for "thousands of years" ... its only about 1400 years old.
Where I come from, 1.4 > 1 and therefore qualifies for the plural form. I agree the left wing apologists are distorting things to try to put Islam on par with (or superior to) Christianity but they are grammatically correct.
However calling violent Islamists "fundamentalist" instead of "radical" is actually a more accurate description.
A "radical" is one that takes an existing ideology and twists it into something else (often to justify violence). A "fundamentalist" is one that takes an existing ideology very seriously and literally. THIS is what violent Islamists are doing. Actually in the context of Islam, being peaceful and getting along with non Muslims when you're in a position of power is actually a "radical" idea.
I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. These guys fit all the traditional poli sci definitions of radicals. Fundamentalism doesn't imply violent action the way radicalism does despite the supremacist roots. I don't have an issue with the fundamentalist Muslims who believe in conversion by setting an example of leading a "pure" life. To some extent, I admire the ones who are unwilling to compromise with certain elements of the West's moral decay but I have a problem with the ones who are trying to actively change society and culture through imposition of THEIR beliefs above our laws, moreso the ones who try to do it through violent actions.
"Helicopters, big military will be useless on their own soil,” another post read. “They will not be able to defeat our people if we use guerilla warfare. Attack their weak flanks ... If you get wounded who cares. If you die who cares. Eventually they will surrender and then the war will be over."
Yeah, right, biyotch. Problem this dickhead doesn't understand is that attempting guerrilla warfare frees up those of us who are (no longer) in uniform to do the same. Sorry, no longer uniformed, no longer subject to the Law of Armed Conflict --- oh, and I'm better armed now than I ever was in uniform.
There are three things I like about Chicago: Chicago pizza, Chicago dogs, and the Chicago way:
They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. *That's* the *Chicago* way!
wctriumph
10-24-2014, 10:07
Islam has been at constant war with the west for the last 1400 years or so. There is no peaceful or moderate or radical part of it, that is simply propaganda to keep the west from rising up and crushing them. Until they are crushed, they will keep coming, it is what and who they are, there is no negotiating this to stop it. Because the west has been weak they are feeling strong again and are now taking the fight to us. It is the politics and money that is making them stronger and us weaker. We are being sold out by a corrupt government for short sighted personal gain and WE need to make a change. The problem is a dumbed down populace that will willingly hold on to their ignorance and rely on someone else to face the problems for them.
We need to stand up on our hind legs and do all we can to win this. It is coming to a town or city near you. Stay alert, be aware, put them down like the vermin that they are. I will stand with those that fight and stand against the cowardice of the PC propagandists that would subdue our freedoms in the name of peaceful relations and coexistence. There will be no coexistence, Islam will see to that. Submit or die. I will not submit and I will spit on anyone that does.
III
[Marine]
mcantar18c
10-24-2014, 11:38
Yep. Anyone who has taken even a single class in political science and isn't a dedicated anti-Western/anti-American/Marxist would recognize that Obama is a radical and filled his administration with radicals.
Radical in relation to the traditional core values of America.
Where I come from, 1.4 > 1 and therefore qualifies for the plural form.
That's the kind of crap that the libs use. You know damn well that saying "thousands" generally implies many thousands... not just a hair over a thousand.
I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. These guys fit all the traditional poli sci definitions of radicals. Fundamentalism doesn't imply violent action the way radicalism does despite the supremacist roots. I don't have an issue with the fundamentalist Muslims who believe in conversion by setting an example of leading a "pure" life. To some extent, I admire the ones who are unwilling to compromise with certain elements of the West's moral decay but I have a problem with the ones who are trying to actively change society and culture through imposition of THEIR beliefs above our laws, moreso the ones who try to do it through violent actions.
The Muslims who truly believe in spreading their religion peacefully, aren't truly Muslim.
Radical is taking bits and pieces of the religion and ignoring the others... like Timothy McVeigh.
Fundamental is taking the full text, all of the core values of your religion, and not varying from that.
Like I said before, the Muslims that don't want to blow you up... they just want other Muslims to blow you up.
Yeah, right, biyotch. Problem this dickhead doesn't understand is that attempting guerrilla warfare frees up those of us who are (no longer) in uniform to do the same. Sorry, no longer uniformed, no longer subject to the Law of Armed Conflict --- oh, and I'm better armed now than I ever was in uniform.
So you wouldn't take a stand against a conventional military invading force like, say, China? They have to be using guerrilla tactics for you to join in?
For those that believe not all muslims are against non-muslims, or think "oh, there are some muslims out there who aren't into killing the non-believers," I offer this correlation: Remember, there are some Christians who don't believe Jesus is the son of God. One's personal interpretation of their religion may be one thing, but the overall picture is quite different. Mohammad said it several times: kill the non-believer.
Some examples:
Quran 2:191-193: "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone." -To mean that you must kill anyone and everyone who does not worship Allah, until only Allah is worshiped.
Quran 4:89: "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks." -Kill the non-believers and accept no help or friendship from them.
Quran 8:12: "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them." -Pretty self-explanatory.
Quran 9:29: "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." -Kill the non-believer until they submit to the rule of Islam. Either die, convert, or submit.
If you can interpret any of that to not mean kill those who do not worship Allah, you are a complete moron. That is from their holy book. Find me anything in the Torah or Bible that says Jews/Christians come together and cut off the heads of non-Jews/Christians... You can't, because it doesn't exist. There are tales of God striking down the sinners, but after the birth and death of Christ, (with exception to Revelations) there is nothing about those who sin being destroyed. You need look no further than the Muslim world. When Islamists murder innocent people, or behead them, where is the outcry from the Muslim populace saying "This is simply not our way, we do not support these traitors to our cause"? You may hear one or two say that, but the majority remains silent. The video I posted before of Ben Shapiro explaining the majority of Muslim belief explains that a very large majority of Muslims would support a world-wide Sharia system. Calling Islam a religion, when it encompasses every aspect of life and governance makes it much more than just a religion. It simply does not fit with America's ideals of Church-State separation as in Sharia law the non-believer must pay a tax of "submission" for not believing. Simple as that.
Aloha_Shooter
10-24-2014, 12:40
So you wouldn't take a stand against a conventional military invading force like, say, China? They have to be using guerrilla tactics for you to join in?
1. I highly suggest you go back and read the quote from the idiot Thompson. Understand the context of what I was responding to.
2. I have been taking a stand for decades and will continue to do so. Nowhere in my response to dickhead did I say I would stand down against a conventional invading force.
Reading comprehension is your friend.
One of the challenges of being an American is trying to figure out how to curtail things like Islam, Nazism, and Communism without infringing on the rights of those who choose to participate in those things. We've done a good job of curtailing Nazism, we need to do a better job on Islam and Communism. Communism is going to be especially difficult because it is so entrenched in the federal education system.
The only opportunity for direct, physical action is when some jihadi or James Holmes wanna-be initiates an event that requires physical action on the part of the good guys (most of us) to stop it.
Education is the key, it is how these ideologies got started and spread, it is the way that we'll slow down and stop the spread of these evil ideologies.
68Charger
10-24-2014, 13:55
So-called "peaceful Muslims" are at best IRRELEVANT
http://youtu.be/Ry3NzkAOo3s
Bailey Guns
10-24-2014, 15:29
"A 29-year-old bystander who was struck by a bullet in the lower back was also taken to a hospital. Her condition was not known."
Yep. Another innocent struck by a NYPD bullet. I think their hit ration is higher on bystanders than it is suspects. Then again, there's a lot of people running around that city.
Great-Kazoo
10-24-2014, 16:59
DiBlasio would throw a parade for some towel head while having the officer before IA. The terrorist are here ,ready to act when they see fit. These are not random acts of violence, unless you're in Denile or DaBronx
I don't see a single thing in there suggesting this person had an Islamic background or motive except for the reporter asking and being told no by the cops.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765661683/NYC-police-commissioner-Hatchet-attack-was-terror.html
NEW YORK — New York City police Commissioner William Bratton says the hatchet attack on four rookie officers was a terrorist act by a homegrown radical.
Bratton said Friday the suspect, Zale Thompson, was a Muslim convert who ranted online against America, but had no clear ties to international terrorism. He believes Thompson was self-radicalized.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765661683/NYC-police-commissioner-Hatchet-attack-was-terror.html
Who the hell is Deseret News?
Aloha_Shooter
10-25-2014, 19:16
Who the hell is Deseret News?
A source more reliable than the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, CBS, ABC, or NBC. [Coffee]
Who the hell is Deseret News?
A fairly reliable paper out of Salt Lake City.
A fairly reliable paper out of Salt Lake City.
It's funny that the initial reports all claimed he was radicalized and now they've changed their story
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
clublights
10-25-2014, 20:51
Radicalized... Self radicalized... Is there really a difference in the end? He did it in the name of Allah provoked likely by the Isis calls to jihad.
After 1400 years of inbreeding, I don't give them much credit for using me as a pawn in their grand plans.
Shouldn't be faulted for stating the facts. Or is it just not PC?
My point is that they are using people like YOU, that generalize all Muslims, as ammunition to recruit other people of similar beliefs that would otherwise have sat aside.
I'm not attacking you, so please don't take it this way- but it's evident that you don't know enough about Islam, otherwise you wouldn't be bringing up others' generalizations. It seems, as far as I've learned about the various religions of the world, that Islam is the only one that employs subterfuge and outright lying to fool the enemy (in Islam that is everyone else) into thinking you're their friend. There are countless times Mahammad has done this. He preaches in the Qu'ran that it's just fine to lie to the infidel until you are strong enough to defeat him. So really, anyone generalizing is actually taking this little fact into account and saying "well since it's their tactical doctrine can we really afford NOT to generalize, since at any time any one of these folks could turn around and start slaughtering us?"
Aloha_Shooter
10-27-2014, 09:09
I'm not attacking you, so please don't take it this way- but it's evident that you don't know enough about Islam, otherwise you wouldn't be bringing up others' generalizations. It seems, as far as I've learned about the various religions of the world, that Islam is the only one that employs subterfuge and outright lying to fool the enemy (in Islam that is everyone else) into thinking you're their friend. There are countless times Mahammad has done this. He preaches in the Qu'ran that it's just fine to lie to the infidel until you are strong enough to defeat him. So really, anyone generalizing is actually taking this little fact into account and saying "well since it's their tactical doctrine can we really afford NOT to generalize, since at any time any one of these folks could turn around and start slaughtering us?"
The thing is that I think Danimal and I and probably others know there are tons of Muslims who take their Islamic faith about as seriously as Joe Biden or Nancy Pelosi take their Catholicism BUT the generalizations can push people like that into taking it more seriously because they are defensive about their culture.
Most people I know don't really do deep analysis of their religious and cultural beliefs or practices or how those are linked to their overall philosophies and actions; some do but most don't. They act and react to what's presented to them at the moment and that's about it -- if they did deep analysis, the actual written Constitution and Founding Fathers would be more popular and we wouldn't see half the crap and cultural decay that we've experienced over the last 30-40 years.
In the meantime, we have a bunch of people who have grown up in a particular culture and have gotten defensive about it over the last 10-15 years, a smaller group of really evil people who use that defensiveness and any examples they can bend in order to recruit more into their jihad, and a larger group of useful idiots who are so devoted to the liberal extremes including multi-culturalism that they'll sell the jihadists the steel to make the knives used for the beheadings (under cost and at taxpayer expense, of course).
Why not let them go over and fight (die) for Islam? I don't understand why we would want to keep violence seeking Muslims within our borders. I'll even contribute to their plane tickets.
I believe the "positive contribution" pertains to spreading the truth about Islam. There is so many lies throughout all of our media and politicians concerning "Moderate Muslims," it is the least I can do to inject a little truth where I can. If someone reads it, does some more research on their own, they will be better prepared for what is coming. If they read it, get offended, give them a plane ticket.
Bailey Guns
10-27-2014, 17:29
Frankly, I don't think they need much prodding into recruiting new members. I seriously doubt they give a rat's ass if I (or average Joe Citizen) speaks ill of Islam. If their propaganda machine is as good as I think it is, they need only lie to the "believers" in order to recruit them. It's not our lifestyle and freedom they hate...it's the fact we don't believe like they do. It's been that way since the founding of our country and the days of Jefferson. They just take advantage of modern technology and other modern means to assist with their goals today.
And, I'm pretty certain not all followers of Islam really want to kill infidels. But enough of them do that makes me think the entire religion is just whacked. They could pretty much all disappear from the face of the earth and it wouldn't ruin my day in the slightest.
68Charger
10-27-2014, 17:31
I'll say it again and again... Unless they are ACTIVELY denouncing the acts of Islamic terrorists, they are at best IRRELEVANT, and more accurately condoning the terrorist actions.
How relevant were the citizens of Germany when Hitler was taking over the world? If they did not join the Nazi party, or actively fight, they were at best IRRELEVANT, and at worst complicit.
The whole culture of Islam prevents any of its members from getting in the way of Jihad... So at best, they are Irrelevant- and at worst another potential terrorist.
I'll say it again and again... Unless they are ACTIVELY denouncing the acts of Islamic terrorists, they are at best IRRELEVANT, and more accurately condoning the terrorist actions.
How relevant were the citizens of Germany when Hitler was taking over the world? If they did not join the Nazi party, or actively fight, they were at best IRRELEVANT, and at worst complicit.
The whole culture of Islam prevents any of its members from getting in the way of Jihad... So at best, they are Irrelevant- and at worst another potential terrorist.
At least Mrs. Gabriel got through to a few of us. Well said Charger, I like your addition to the point Bridgette Gabriel was making- add in complicit. Like that quote "It's not evil men we must fear, but the indifference of good men."
I had a discussion here recently too, and the "good" and "bad" thing is subjective. I'll give you an example. Take three people.
1) Pacifist gentleman
2) Take-no-shit individual
3) Violent nutjob.
Pit them against a psychopath. The pacificst does nothing and becomes the sociopaths target, choice victim, but in the process, the sociopath harms nobody else. Put simply, the pacifist becomes the psychopaths bitch. Is the pacifist bad?
The Take-no-shit type fights the psychopath, and pursues the psychopath, and makes the psychopaths life very difficult. To survive, the psychopath seeks out and finds multiple victims to exploit. Is this individual doing "good" in this situation?
The violent nutjob kills the psychopath. In this instance, is the nutjob bad?
What is the contribution "on the whole" of each individual to the fulfillment of "good" and "bad" ideals, irrespective of religion? People self-identify themselves almost always as "good" people. But with the pervasiveness of Americanized, Hollywood ideals ("oh, the guy robbing you just had a bad life and just needs a friend") are we not, in fact, "bad" for society ourselves? People are naïve across the spectrum both ways. More harm than good comes from hugging everybody, as does killing everybody. The reality is good and bad are not stripes on a zebra. Good often comes from seemingly bad actions and vice versa.
Sitting back and doing nothing has the net effect of a bad outcome. Does that not, in fact, make a person "bad"?
Touche! However, I'll say this, as this conversation has come up many times in my life. Doing nothing does not make someone "bad", per se. We have laws now that say otherwise- such as if you witness a crime and you don't call 911 you could be in hot water. But the failure to act, in and of itself, is not a bad act, it is just that, failure to act. Our societal norms have placed the non-action in the same category as the bad act, like the example of three boys beating up a classmate, by you not breaking it up at the very least, you are placed in the same category as the boys. You allow something to continue, and it is viewed, at least these days, that you have a duty to your fellow man to act. But what about that popular scenario that gets brought up around CCW discussions? Many here know the one, the guy who appears to be robbing the store clerk, but instead is a father of a child who was sold drugs by the store clerk. You happen to be in the store when this confrontation takes place, you draw and shoot the father. It's part of that 'don't get involved in situations you don't know' idea. So which is it? Do you have a duty to act, or a duty to not get involved because you don't know the whole situation. What if the guy is an undercover police officer? What if? What if? What if? It's an interesting dilemma to discuss. Foxtrot, you certainly do make some good points, at what point is a bad act considered good because it's being done to a bad person to prevent more bad. This is the reason why I don't view killing someone as a bad act- it's the circumstance, motive, situation, manner, and cause for killing that can be classified as a bad act (IE: murder).
PugnacAutMortem
10-28-2014, 10:42
Here's an interesting comparison between Christianity and Islam. Islam in general believes that all people who don't follow Islam should die an earthly death. Christianity in general believes that all people who don't follow Christianity WILL die an eternal death. What's worse?
I also will say that it is very easy to cherry pick out verses from Holy texts to prove a point you want to make. For every verse in the Koran that appears to promote violence towards others, there's a Bible verse that equally encourages violence. Islam is the faith to hate of the day...soon it will be Judiasm...then it will be Hinduism...the Christianity again...then Islam again...
My question to all of you is this: is Islam DIRECTLY affecting your daily life negatively today? The answer is very clearly no. Leave people the fuck alone, let people believe whatever kind of horseshit they want to believe and live your life and be happy.
Well, we've discussed Islam vs whatever a hundred times on here. Is there any new info concerning the event in NYC?
is Islam DIRECTLY affecting your daily life negatively today? The answer is very clearly no.
Must not fly much.
Or have family or friends in the military.
Or friends or family in Israel.
Or non-muslim friends or family living or working in the Middle East.
One of the stupidest, immature, selfish quotes I've ever heard. "It does not directly affect me in a negative way. Therefore, what do I care."
Carry on.
wctriumph
10-28-2014, 11:12
[QUOTE=My question to all of you is this: is Islam DIRECTLY affecting your daily life negatively today? The answer is very clearly no. Leave people the fuck alone, let people believe whatever kind of horseshit they want to believe and live your life and be happy.[/QUOTE]
Under a rock are we???
[facepalm]
Aloha_Shooter
10-28-2014, 11:37
One of the stupidest, immature, selfish quotes I've ever heard. "It does not directly affect me in a negative way. Therefore, what do I care."
Carry on.
Excepting nearly every word uttered by Obama, Billary, or Elizabeth "Faux-cahontas" Warren, I agree. +1
PugnacAutMortem
10-28-2014, 11:40
Must not fly much.
Or have family or friends in the military.
Or friends or family in Israel.
Or non-muslim friends or family living or working in the Middle East.
One of the stupidest, immature, selfish quotes I've ever heard. "It does not directly affect me in a negative way. Therefore, what do I care."
Carry on.
Nope, my brother is in the military but its strange because he isn't calling me saying "man, I wish this Islam thing would stop making my life a living hell", nope & nope not living in the middle east...however our roommate is Muslim. **GASP**...yes we actually let one of "those people" live in our house and around our children even. Strange, she doesn't want to blow up our family...nor does she want any other Muslim to blow up our family. She's actually quite fond of our family, because she has become a part of it. Yes...a Christian household not only allows, but encourages a Muslim to live with us and to do life together.
You know what she has to deal with on a daily basis? People like some of you on here, treating her poorly because of her religion. That makes me more angry than I am able to express in words, and every last one of you who does exactly that should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves. Funny thing is, there's plenty of shitty people out there. Hell, there's probably as many shitty Christians as there are Muslims. There's even plenty of shitty gun owners. And boy that torques some folks on here right off when people generalize you because you are associated with a belief system/activity/group etc. You want to talk about stupid, selfish and immature? Pot, meet kettle.
I am out...I've thoroughly derailed this thread even further than it already was.
Here's an interesting comparison between Christianity and Islam. Islam in general believes that all people who don't follow Islam should die an earthly death. Christianity in general believes that all people who don't follow Christianity WILL die an eternal death. What's worse?
I also will say that it is very easy to cherry pick out verses from Holy texts to prove a point you want to make. For every verse in the Koran that appears to promote violence towards others, there's a Bible verse that equally encourages violence. Islam is the faith to hate of the day...soon it will be Judiasm...then it will be Hinduism...the Christianity again...then Islam again...
My question to all of you is this: is Islam DIRECTLY affecting your daily life negatively today? The answer is very clearly no. Leave people the fuck alone, let people believe whatever kind of horseshit they want to believe and live your life and be happy.
To your first part- Christianity does not state that- you're taking a biblical quote out of context. "He who denies me in front of men will be denied before the Angels of God," Luke 12:9. That was speaking to those who do not believe in Christ, and they will not receive eternal death, but be denied entrance to Heaven, in the Christian sense.
Point 2- the bible does not, anywhere, encourage violence, in the New Testament. The OT does state that God was so angry with the sins of man that he wiped the wicked out (Soddom and Gommorah, The Great Flood, etc.), but no where does the bible state to find the non-Christian and smite their heads from their body. Again, you take things out of context.
Third- Islam does directly affect me. I have to take off my shoes and consent to invasive searches just to board an airplane. Hassidic Jews did not cause this, Roman Catholics did not cause this, Islamic Jihadists caused this. I lost the chance (nevermind that I chose against, but the option was taken from me) to pursue a career in the US Army because of injury sustained in Afghanistan, fighting Islamic Jihadists. They caused this. They directly affected my life and I have scars to prove it. I no longer have 33 vertebrae in my spine, I'm now at 32. This was caused by my having to take the fight to the Islamic Jihadists in a far off land who attacked us. It was not Jews, it was not Christians, and it was not Hindi. I was perfectly happy, up until 9/11/01 to leave people the fuck alone, but they could not leave my country alone, thus I stand with the many on here who see the truth.
Nope, my brother is in the military but its strange because he isn't calling me saying "man, I wish this Islam thing would stop making my life a living hell", nope & nope not living in the middle east...however our roommate is Muslim. **GASP**...yes we actually let one of "those people" live in our house and around our children even. Strange, she doesn't want to blow up our family...nor does she want any other Muslim to blow up our family. She's actually quite fond of our family, because she has become a part of it. Yes...a Christian household not only allows, but encourages a Muslim to live with us and to do life together.
You know what she has to deal with on a daily basis? People like some of you on here, treating her poorly because of her religion. That makes me more angry than I am able to express in words, and every last one of you who does exactly that should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves. Funny thing is, there's plenty of shitty people out there. Hell, there's probably as many shitty Christians as there are Muslims. There's even plenty of shitty gun owners. And boy that torques some folks on here right off when people generalize you because you are associated with a belief system/activity/group etc. You want to talk about stupid, selfish and immature? Pot, meet kettle.
I am out...I've thoroughly derailed this thread even further than it already was.
In the words of Bridgette Gabriel- Your roommate is IRRELEVANT.
PugnacAutMortem
10-28-2014, 12:24
To your first part- Christianity does not state that- you're taking a biblical quote out of context.
Can't help myself...
I would be willing to bet that the verses you took from the Koran in post #37 are out of context as well. And an aside to your point about being denied entry into Heaven...read Revelations 20:15.
http://gunfreezone.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/wwjd.jpg
Can't help myself...
I would be willing to bet that the verses you took from the Koran in post #37 are out of context as well. And an aside to your point about being denied entry into Heaven...read Revelations 20:15.
Yes, non-believers are going to Hell after they die on earth. That is entirely God's call.
Which is worse? I'll take MURDER for $1000, Alex. Choosing to murder someone for not believing the same as you is an Islamic teaching, not Christian. Christians will attempt to spread the Gospel, but if you choose not to believe in it, that is your free will, and ultimately between you and God. The Christian will go on about his business and you may go on about yours.
1- Book of Al-Maeda, verse 33 (5:33) -“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;”
2- Book of Al-Anfal, verse 12 ( 8:12) - “I (Allah) will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”
3- Book of Muhammad, verse 4 (47:4) - “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives”: thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.”
4- Book of Al-Tawba, verse 123 (9:123) - “Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.”
5- Book of Al-Baqara, verse 191 (2:191) - “Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out.”
6- Book of Al-Baqara, verse 193 (2:193) - “Fight them on until there is no more tumult and religion becomes that of Allah”
7- Book of Al-Tawba verse 29 (9:29) - "Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the last day... and fight People of the Book, (Christian and Jews) who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute (Jizyah tax) by hand, being inferior.”
8- Book of Al-Anfal, verse 17 (8:17) - It is not ye who Slew them, but Allah; And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair test from Him. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower. Allah is indeed the "Beneficent and the Merciful" and above all, Allah is knower of all things.
And one of my all time favorites:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVl9LR5OQp0
Yes, non-believers are going to Hell after they die on earth. That is entirely God's call.
Which is worse? I'll take MURDER for $1000, Alex. Choosing to murder someone for not believing the same as you is an Islamic teaching, not Christian. Christians will attempt to spread the Gospel, but if you choose not to believe in it, that is your free will, and ultimately between you and God. The Christian will go on about his business and you may go on about yours.
Hammer meet nail! [Beer]
Danimal- for the record, no one attacked you personally, just your opinion on this matter. Which again, if you watch Bridgette Gabriel's remarks, you'll soon find that the facts of Jihadism are undeniable.
This thread has devolved to personal attacks based on interpretation of theist philosophy so I am going to bow out.
Not the same as Theology.
Just remember that by design there is no correct answer to well defined questions of ethics or morals. They are solely justified by personal beliefs and relationship with oneself so every answer must be different.
That would be Humanism - does not pertain to Islam or Christianity.
By condemning a group of people based on their beliefs, you also condemn yourself. You make an enemy from someone you will never know because you have denied them the opportunity to change.
Not what I believe.
Protect yourself and our way of life by any means necessary, but remember the meek shall inherit the earth.
Can't help it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slbMe-aTY1A
Im going to convert all my firearms to muslim so no one has to be worried about them.
Wow. Last time I checked this thread, it was about knuckleheads targeting NYPD cops.... [facepalm]
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DqWM1IrdHc0/VALLlYrFopI/AAAAAAAAtx8/Tp99byvAsHg/s1600/BwT-UB2IgAEgW5q.jpg
68Charger
10-29-2014, 15:00
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DqWM1IrdHc0/VALLlYrFopI/AAAAAAAAtx8/Tp99byvAsHg/s1600/BwT-UB2IgAEgW5q.jpg
Umm, if you're going to advocate fighting evil, perhaps you shouldn't use imagery associated with the Knights Templar and the Crusades...
Christians aren't immune to the influences of evil, and that probably is the best (worst) example of what that looks like...
Just sayin'
mcantar18c
10-29-2014, 15:11
Umm, if you're going to advocate fighting evil, perhaps you shouldn't use imagery associated with the Knights Templar and the Crusades...
Christians aren't immune to the influences of evil, and that probably is the best (worst) example of what that looks like...
Just sayin'
You seem to be unclear on history.
4 myths about the crusades
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/column.php?n=1562
How the Crusades Saved Europe and America
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMjUFBYEzqQ&list=PLPq6iUifPrJb2uo9W_WAUOvDamIVbVXOI
What Can Modern People Learn from the Crusaders?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8xJluanXCo&list=PLPq6iUifPrJb2uo9W_WAUOvDamIVbVXOI
Rick Santorum Gets the Crusades Right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjpX7j4SfGY&list=PLPq6iUifPrJb2uo9W_WAUOvDamIVbVXOI
68Charger
10-29-2014, 15:32
You seem to be unclear on history.
4 myths about the crusades
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/column.php?n=1562
How the Crusades Saved Europe and America
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMjUFBYEzqQ&list=PLPq6iUifPrJb2uo9W_WAUOvDamIVbVXOI
What Can Modern People Learn from the Crusaders?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8xJluanXCo&list=PLPq6iUifPrJb2uo9W_WAUOvDamIVbVXOI
Rick Santorum Gets the Crusades Right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjpX7j4SfGY&list=PLPq6iUifPrJb2uo9W_WAUOvDamIVbVXOI
Perhaps I should have stuck with the Knights Templar...
http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/the-sad-history-of-the-knights-templar
Comparing the actions of Christians to Muslims during the crusades, it's not hard to see good vs. evil overall- but the Knights Templar (whose symbol is in the picture I quoted earlier) are NOT a good example of Christians- they succumbed to power...
An example of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"
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