View Full Version : How to 'clear' under objects like a bed ?
james_bond_007
11-10-2014, 17:39
(MODS: Please move if there is a better place for his post)
Perhaps not quite CCW, but browsing through the categories several times, this seems 'closest'
QUESTION:
I've done quite a bit of searching (apparently not enough) to find out the recommended way to 'clear' under a bed, behind a desk, etc.
Lots of stuff on 'slicing the pie', staying close to a wall, where to stand when opening a door, but ...
I've not been able to find any suggested techniques, other than '... When clearing a bedroom, be sure to check under the bed'.
If it is a bed that has a ruffle around it, one can't see under it without lifting up the cloth. Seems kind of dangerous to perhaps lift it up, bend down to take a look, and possibly have a gun in your face from someone hiding under there.
52131
Could lift it up with a long stick, but it may take some time to go into other 'uncleared' areas to find an appropriate stick.
I also hear people say 'Don't attempt to clear a house by yourself...call the police to do it.'
This is a fine opinion, but it does not answer the question of how to do it properly
...or
How does a trained professional 'clear' under a bed?
Flashbang
Took mine... I'll jump straight to grenade then... or a dog.
In all seriousness... I'm interested in peoples answers as well. Thinking about it, seems like with only one person, you cannot safely clear under a bed. My .02
68Charger
11-10-2014, 19:19
I'll point out the obvious- if you're concerned about the bed ruffle, don't have a #%#@( bed ruffle!!
Our beds are open- that's where our dogs frequently sleep- I pity the fool that meets our 120# St Bernard/American Bulldog mix if they're in his spot..
Clearing the house with one person is a losing situation
leave the house and call the police
or
commando roll across the bedroom and kick the mattress off the frame
You haven't seen under my bed. [Shy]
Make the servants do it...duh!
You haven't seen under my bed. [Shy]
Yeah, I was going to say stack enough shit under your bed that a person can't fit under there.
I was wondering who the hell could fit under a bed anyway?
Two person job, bare minimum. Even then, there are always going to be some points that are dangerous IF there is someone waiting for you. Doors, hallways, closets, etc...
If possible, one person covers while the goat (uh point man) flips the mattress. Take turns, trust your backup.
Be safe.
Great-Kazoo
11-10-2014, 21:24
2 people
This. You feel there is someone inside, the cops and your ins company can handle it. You live alone, go for it, you're with family, there's nothing worse than rolling up on a dead or dying family member.
james_bond_007
11-10-2014, 22:52
Two person job, bare minimum. Even then, there are always going to be some points that are dangerous IF there is someone waiting for you. Doors, hallways, closets, etc...
If possible, one person covers while the goat (uh point man) flips the mattress. Take turns, trust your backup.
Be safe.
Best answer so far..along with others that said "use 2 people".
james_bond_007
11-10-2014, 22:56
Yeah, I was going to say stack enough shit under your bed that a person can't fit under there.
My wife has already taken the initiative to do this ... [ROFL1]
james_bond_007
11-10-2014, 23:01
Two person job, bare minimum. Even then, there are always going to be some points that are dangerous IF there is someone waiting for you. Doors, hallways, closets, etc...
If possible, one person covers while the goat (uh point man) flips the mattress. Take turns, trust your backup.
Be safe.
Thanks.
You and the other 'use 2 people' responses seem to be the most helpful.
I was curious how it was done...and even with 2 people it is not safe.
Thanks for addressing my question.
Another option is a long pointy stick.
If the PD believes there is someone present and they have the time and resources, dogs and remotely operated vehicle with a camera can be used.
It sort of like, what do I do with the strange package left on my porch? If you were EOD, you would remotely retrieve it and take it to a safe, empty field and use a water cannon, or small charge to detonate. Patrol officers normally just walk up and kick it. People use the tools they are familiar with.
Be safe.
I was wondering who the hell could fit under a bed with all those extra ammo cans stored there anyway?
FIFY
james_bond_007
11-11-2014, 07:53
... Patrol officers normally just walk up and kick it. ...
Seems odd, if the object was 'suspicious' and the PD had other tools, as you mentioned.
In fact, it seems like the LAST thing they would want to do....at least, to me it does.
68Charger
11-11-2014, 08:16
No mention of a K9 unit?
seems like he could tell you someone's under the bed without pulling back the ruffle... (especially if he smells bad)
StagLefty
11-11-2014, 08:55
armed dust bunnies ?
Seems odd, if the object was 'suspicious' and the PD had other tools, as you mentioned.
In fact, it seems like the LAST thing they would want to do....at least, to me it does.
You only get to make the mistake once, but fortunately during my life time, the number of actual bombs in a package vs suspicious yet harmless packages has been nil.
People generally use the tools they have with them. Many patrol officers become accustomed to answering and clearing calls as quickly and efficiently as possible. If the officer just finished in-service where they received an EOD briefing, they might be more likely to call it in. If, however, this is the third suspicious package call in a month, and the last officer who called one in is getting some peer pressure for the five hours on fixed posts holding a perimeter for a bag of dirty laundry... nudging it a bit with the tip of your boot may seem like a pretty good idea.
When you only carry a hammer, lots of things start looking like nails.
Be safe.
newracer
11-11-2014, 09:56
http://www.protectamerica.com/home-security-blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/doomba4.png
buffalobo
11-11-2014, 09:58
Send in the wife. Tell her somebody is messing with the expensive shoes she never wears.
When she comes out call for hazmat cleanup or let hogs and dogs in for a few minutes.[emoji33]
thvigil11
11-11-2014, 10:13
Weaponized Roomba
This is the greatest answer in the history of answers. I picture one with a series of steak knives duct taped. Weaponized Roomba should be a board rank name, somewhere around machine gunner.
newracer
11-11-2014, 10:25
This is the greatest answer in the history of answers. I picture one with a series of steak knives duct taped. Weaponized Roomba should be a board rank name, somewhere around machine gunner.
http://www.protectamerica.com/home-security-blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/doomba3.png
https://vimeo.com/111546748
My dog likes to play under the bed.. I'm not worried about anyone hiding under there w/o him wanting to play
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
http://www.protectamerica.com/home-security-blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/doomba3.png
Careful. Those high capacity ones arent legal anymore.
HoneyBadger
11-11-2014, 12:14
http://www.protectamerica.com/home-security-blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/doomba3.png
This would actually probably work...
[Coffee]
thvigil11
11-11-2014, 13:20
http://www.protectamerica.com/home-security-blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/doomba3.png
this is exactly what I had in mind. Kudos to you sir,the internet is yours for today.
Chad4000
11-11-2014, 15:21
this is exactly what I had in mind. Kudos to you sir,the internet is yours for today.
bahahaha lol agreed
Awesome, made me think of this
http://youtu.be/T500ecHP3pE?t=20s
james_bond_007
11-12-2014, 11:28
http://www.protectamerica.com/home-security-blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/doomba3.png
After the 2nd photo, I realized you actually MADE these (as opposed to finding them on the net), took the pics, and posted them.
Nice Job !!! [Beer]
newracer
11-12-2014, 12:09
Actually I just found the picts on the net.
I do have two roombas and a lot of knives though.
james_bond_007
11-12-2014, 12:13
Actually I just found the picts on the net.
I do have two roombas and a lot of knives though.
Guess Ya' fooled "ME" ....[facepalm]
Structure/Building/Room clearing is a team sport.
Best way to clear under is to get into prone, eyeball under then flip the mattress.
That being said the 3 rules of Individual Based Tactics are;
1. Eliminate all threats
2. Cover all danger areas
3. Protect your buddy
And the unofficial 4th rule is don't fuck up.
Awesome, made me think of this
http://youtu.be/T500ecHP3pE?t=20s
All of the really awesome TV shows get cancelled.
TV is in the business of turning people into retards.
Structure/Building/Room clearing is a team sport.
Best way to clear under is to get into prone, eyeball under then flip the mattress.
That being said the 3 rules of Individual Based Tactics are;
1. Eliminate all threats
2. Cover all danger areas
3. Protect your buddy
And the unofficial 4th rule is don't fuck up.
going prone is situationally dependant and usually avoided (it limits your mobility). There are many senarios I can come up with where that would be disastrous for you. I would also disagree with your "rules" listed above. Those are more considerations when making a decision. Warfare has gone from rules to concept based fighting as we cannot plan let alone create a definitive plan for every possible situation.
I'm good with rule number 4...especially if I'm in front of you. But I'm kind of selfish that way [Flower]
LA Sheriff Dept answer: Exit the building, set it on fire, shoot whoever comes out.
going prone is situationally dependant and usually avoided (it limits your mobility). There are many senarios I can come up with where that would be disastrous for you. I would also disagree with your "rules" listed above. Those are more considerations when making a decision. Warfare has gone from rules to concept based fighting as we cannot plan let alone create a definitive plan for every possible situation.
I didn't invent these "rules".
These are the 3 foundational rules to Individual based-tactics as applied to Close Quarters Battle. And taught to the students of the United States Marine Corps CQB School in Chesapeake VA. The alternative to IBT is Team Based Tactics which has its advantages and disadvantages. While I never was specifically trained or came up with SOP for clearing underneath beds, the going prone thing was something that was SOP for clearing a very similar obstacle albeit on a much larger scale.
Name in what way you would be remiss at all in following these 3 rules when clearing a multi story structure with numerous possible layouts, multiple entrances and exits and more square footage than the capital building with 8 shooters tasked with clearing every square inch looking for anything out of place. And potentially facing numerous highly skilled, prepared, equipped, and organized special operators... At 2am, in the dark, with no comms, no NVGS, no thermals, no support, and with an 8 minute time limit.
If we were to enter a room and the whole world went to shit, yet we eliminated all the threats in that room, covered all danger areas, and watched each others backs, and continued to advance and progress to the remaining rooms until the entire structure had been cleared, how would we be wrong?
Its not about knowing every possible contingency, scenario, what if game you can possibly come up with. Its how you process information , multi task, and handle ANY given situation that leads to success. If you have already decided you are walking into hell and the enemy is Spetznaz trained North Korean midget,super soldier, monkey-human hybrid invisible flying ninjas. Then fuck everything else. Follow those 3 rules and you will be ok.
If you have already decided you are walking into hell and the enemy is Spetznaz trained North Korean midget,super soldier, monkey-human hybrid invisible flying ninjas. Then fuck everything else. Follow those 3 rules and you will be ok.
Depends on whether you are carrying a 9mm or .45 ACP [Sarcasm2]
I didn't invent these "rules".
If you have already decided you are walking into hell and the enemy is Spetznaz trained North Korean midget,super soldier, monkey-human hybrid invisible flying ninjas. Then fuck everything else. Follow those 3 rules and you will be ok.
Move back and call in an air strike in this case. Fuck the building.
OK. I'll bite. Your "rules" are a bit antiquated and not following current philosophies in this subject. While I don't disagree with following those ideas, they are not, by any means, inclusive of individual or team entry concepts nor a guideline for "you'll be OK." I know the school you refer to and it's teachings...No where has those "rules" been mentioned in any formal writings nor DoD publication. I know, I'm currently a Subject Matter Expert & Instructor for the DoD on this and helped write some of the currently taught courseware. That was probably a brief, albeit incomplete summarization of one instructor after a run in the house. It is not a guideline to effectively, efficiently, or safely clear a structure/zone/etc... (single or multi room/entrance/whatever). As I mentioned earlier, current philosophies utilize Initiative Based Tactics (not Individual or Team) and understanding basic concepts, or tenets, that must be considered and applied by all all to be efficient. All of the 4 "rules" you mentioned could be broken and yet the mission completed safely and efficiently. It's not ideally optimal, but you know the saying about plans not surviving 1st contact with the enemy. I'm not going to elaborate any further on tactics on an online forum as that is inappropriate. However, i will urge you to consider that entries, whether with 2 people or 20, requires constant thought which football style pre-determined plays cannot accomplish as efficiently.
Structure/Building/Room clearing is a team sport.
Best way to clear under is to get into prone, eyeball under then flip the mattress.
That being said the 3 rules of Individual Based Tactics are;
1. Eliminate all threats
2. Cover all danger areas
3. Protect your buddy
And the unofficial 4th rule is don't fuck up.
I didn't invent these "rules".
These are the 3 foundational rules to Individual based-tactics as applied to Close Quarters Battle. And taught to the students of the United States Marine Corps CQB School in Chesapeake VA. The alternative to IBT is Team Based Tactics which has its advantages and disadvantages. While I never was specifically trained or came up with SOP for clearing underneath beds, the going prone thing was something that was SOP for clearing a very similar obstacle albeit on a much larger scale.
Name in what way you would be remiss at all in following these 3 rules when clearing a multi story structure with numerous possible layouts, multiple entrances and exits and more square footage than the capital building with 8 shooters tasked with clearing every square inch looking for anything out of place. And potentially facing numerous highly skilled, prepared, equipped, and organized special operators... At 2am, in the dark, with no comms, no NVGS, no thermals, no support, and with an 8 minute time limit.
If we were to enter a room and the whole world went to shit, yet we eliminated all the threats in that room, covered all danger areas, and watched each others backs, and continued to advance and progress to the remaining rooms until the entire structure had been cleared, how would we be wrong?
Its not about knowing every possible contingency, scenario, what if game you can possibly come up with. Its how you process information , multi task, and handle ANY given situation that leads to success. If you have already decided you are walking into hell and the enemy is Spetznaz trained North Korean midget,super soldier, monkey-human hybrid invisible flying ninjas. Then fuck everything else. Follow those 3 rules and you will be ok.
@ coloccw
I graduated from said schoolhouse in 2009. I did not get the 3 rules of IBT from an instructor but from the issued blue book handed out at the school. You are right on one thing, I went back and looked at my notes and the correct verbiage is Initiative Based Tactics. I also understand that there is no set of rules that will ensure success and that all plans go to hell at first contact. As far as current SOP's and doctrine I couldn't tell you one way or another. I know that tactics change and are constantly updated as a matter of course. I will take it at face value that you are a SME on the current stuff. However I still don't think there has been any other serious ideas put forth so far to help answer the OP's original question. So how does one clear under low obstacles at floor to high ankle level without dropping into prone?
Caveat: I am not an expert. I'm barely on the page.
But I have learned this much from this forum- if you see a potential problem area, try and make it into something that isn't. Now, a dust ruffle not only LOOKS nice, but it covers a multitude of sins. If you have a king size bed, you can slide several under-the-bed boxes beneath the frame, and they can hold lots of items: out-of-season clothes, linens, boots/shoes, books...etc. They take up the room under a bed, and an intruder or an alligator or whatever can't fit under there without displacing objects.
If there's no under-the-bed boxes, or you're in a situation where you are alone and just don't know if there's a bad guy hiding under a piece of furniture and there happens to be carpeting...would this idea be feasible? Most houses have framed pictures on the wall. Or, even better, a mirror with beveled edges. Or if you have kids- a skateboard. Anything that you can send under that bed, and listen for the 'thunk' of it smacking into someone, or the sound of it sliding all the way out the other side, or the sight and sound of hasty evasion. Do you think that would work?
Anyone said use a mirror or camera yet?
OctopusHighball
11-14-2014, 09:00
http://www.protectamerica.com/home-security-blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/doomba3.png
Looks like I just found a "solution" to my cat problem!
hurley842002
11-14-2014, 09:15
I say loud verbal commands and a dummy grenade rolled under the bed could get someone flushed out.
52313
Whats the pub number on that? PM me that please if it has one or if it is a unit specific handbook.
Anyone said use a mirror or camera yet?
That's probably one of the most efficient methods. A simple telescopic mirror from any auto parts store works wonders yet no one carries one with them. Most SWAT teams don't carry mirrors on them even through they are light and compact. The best method I would consider feasible for one person with CCW gear is to roll out from behind cover in a modified kneeling position and use light, either hand held or weapon mounted to illuminate through the material or underneath it (reflecting the light off the floor) to visually soften the area. Using a broom stick to lift while trying to hold a firearm towards the area is difficult and not always feasible from behind cover. The downside to this is while your attention is focused underneath the bed, everywhere else is neglected so having an additional person to provide security will help.
I actually asked a LE that clears buildings and rooms multiple times a week this question a few months ago. He said it takes 2 people one holsters their gun and lifts the mattress. I asked him if they find people under there often he said "sometimes we find people all over."
two shots thru each mattress ....
Do a burpee and clear under... Burpees and tactical shit..
Lol
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
Do a burpee and clear under... Burpees and tactical shit..
Don't Burpees classify as crossfit?
5744057441
[ROFL1]
Don't Burpees classify as crossfit?
5744057441
[ROFL1]
Not really.. I think they're part of lots of hiit.
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
Rucker61
04-20-2015, 04:20
I have a 120 lb Rottie to check under beds.
Delvehound
07-06-2015, 14:56
I say jump up and down on the bed. If nobody got squished, then at least you had some fun reliving your childhood... [Coffee]
BladesNBarrels
07-06-2015, 15:18
Low Flying Drone
The Federal Aviation Administration on Tuesday released a new interim policy (http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=82245&omniRss=news_updatesAoc&cid=101_N_U) governing the use of certain small drones for commercial purposes, issuing a blanket authorization for unmanned aircraft flights below 200 feet. But the new rules won’t benefit everyone equally. The new policy only applies to the roughly 45 companies that have already obtained permission to fly through the FAA’s slow and stringent “Section 333” process.
[Sofa]
https://kikecalvoblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/417prcm9tzl.jpg
T. B. Turner
07-06-2015, 16:18
keep a lot of crap under the bed so that there is no room for anyone to hide under it.
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