View Full Version : Home Security: Breaker Box
james_bond_007
11-10-2014, 18:07
After moving here several years ago from the Midwest, I've always wondered why the Breaker Boxes of many houses are located outdoors.
All of the ones I encountered in the Midwest were indoors: either in a house, a garage, or a shed.
I've heard various rumors, such as
a) Required by code in many cities
b) So if there is a fire, the fire department can shut off the power
But it has always puzzled me as to the real reason.
It seems odd that, if during a rain/electrical storm, a breaker trips, I have to go OUTSIDE and stick my hands in the breaker box to reset the breakers. ...seems UNSAFE.
(I have no fear of resetting the breaker, but DO have a fear of lighting zapping the box in a rainstorm WHILE I'm doing it, am pretty wet from rain, and am a good 'conductor')
Also, if "I" were a burglar, one of the first things I'd do is snip off the sheet metal hasp on the breaker box, by the lock, or pry of the cheap built-i n cylinder lock, and turn off the power.
Perhaps there are more secure boxes than the one I have seen ?
52133 OR 52135
NOTE: Neighborhood is 25-30 years old
nogaroheli
11-10-2014, 18:18
Wow, having it outside does seem crazy. Mine have always been inside the garage so I doubt it's a code requirement. I'd be interested to hear the reason for them being outside.
Why would you turn off the power if you were a burglar?
Mine is in the garage, 21 year old house, or thereabouts.
Burglars turn off the power to disable landline phones, (doesn't work, only turns off the ringer, but hey, they're not the brightest bulb in the box), burglar alarms, and generally discumbobulate the residents.
Or so I'm told.
68Charger
11-10-2014, 19:12
Umm- what about your power meter? most of them are secured with a "seal", that once removed the meter can be pulled off (which cuts off the main power feed to the house)..
I think the OP is concerned about home invaders (not burglary)
BushMasterBoy
11-10-2014, 19:34
Make sure a ground rod is close to the box and a large wire connected to the ground! We are a little above sea level here! We have dry lightning and even winter lightning.
Mine is outside, too, along with the meter. It caught on fire in September 2012. I'd LOVE to know the logic behind having it outside. [fail]
I am also concerned about this... Since you posted this, I realize that a simple padlock on that little tiny ring really is not going to stop anybody.
PLUS! How far away is your nearest outdoor Electrical outlet? Plug in an angle grinder, and voila! you are in most any security feature you could install.
Mine has a camera (CCTV and Game camera that I move around all the time) pointing right at it that is motion activated.
They're probably outside because it's cheaper for the builders when the cheap bastards are building these modern crackerbox houses. Anything to save a buck and inflate profits a hair. FWIW, I have a Master padlock on mine just to discourage mischief - teenagers have been known to fiddle with things they shouldn't.
The house I rented in Boulder had it on the outside, girlfriends house in Evergreen has it outside and my sisters brand new home (in 2000) in Highlands Ranch had it on the outside. I'm also from the midwest and I work in home construction, never saw a box outdoors until I moved here.
Great-Kazoo
11-10-2014, 20:46
Our supply / box is 50' inside the perimeter. What is everyone concerned about, you do have a flashlight next to or on a home defense firearm, YES? Or did Being able to ID a threat get lost among the rest of one's safety plans.
gnihcraes
11-10-2014, 21:10
Meter and "fuse" box was on the inside. Power company wants access to the meter for their reasons.
Upgraded my service a couple times, all of it got moved outdoors. Most installations I've seen are outside. Newer homes have them inside I believe.
One reason I can think of is that my hood is fed from above ground lines/poles, vs below fed in the new subdivisions. It would make it easier to get power inside from those underground feed points.
Having a mast going straight to the meter and breaker box with overhead feed setups.
Make sure power required security items are on a UPS or similar device.
My sentry guns are off-grid so they will still work.
clublights
11-10-2014, 21:24
Mine is in the garage, 21 year old house, or thereabouts.
Burglars turn off the power to disable landline phones, (doesn't work, only turns off the ringer, but hey, they're not the brightest bulb in the box), burglar alarms, and generally discumbobulate the residents.
Or so I'm told.
uhhh landline phones are powered off the phone line itself. This does not include cordless or other phones that have an AC plug in normally a wall wart of some sort. When the phone is not in use, this is a constant DC signal (about 50-60 volts). When the phone rings, the signal is a 20 hertz AC signal (about 90 volts). When in use it is a modulated DC signal (between 6 and 12 volts). The phones lines even have power during a blackout in most cases.
clodhopper
11-10-2014, 21:39
uhhh landline phones are powered off the phone line itself. This does not include cordless or other phones that have an AC plug in normally a wall wart of some sort. When the phone is not in use, this is a constant DC signal (about 50-60 volts). When the phone rings, the signal is a 20 hertz AC signal (about 90 volts). When in use it is a modulated DC signal (between 6 and 12 volts). The phones lines even have power during a blackout in most cases.
Yep, but most people don't use an unpowered phone anymore. Usually some sort of remote or built in answering machine requiring wall power. BUT, on the other side of things, more and more people are dropping the land line completely and just using a cell. Problem eliminated. Even home security systems are starting to use cellular.
The breaker on the outside is required by building code. Allows the fire responders to kill power prior to dumping water on a fire and trooping around in puddles....and it also allows the power company to kill power if the payment is behind. Usually it is just a main cutoff outside and the rest of the breakers are in the garage.
KestrelBike
11-10-2014, 22:17
In the basement in these parts!
clublights
11-10-2014, 22:36
Yep, but most people don't use an unpowered phone anymore. Usually some sort of remote or built in answering machine requiring wall power. BUT, on the other side of things, more and more people are dropping the land line completely and just using a cell. Problem eliminated. Even home security systems are starting to use cellular.
True however the phone would likely not work more then just not ringing if it required ac power of any sort.
GilpinGuy
11-10-2014, 22:50
Mine is outside, too, along with the meter. It caught on fire in September 2012. I'd LOVE to know the logic behind having it outside. [fail]
If mine caught fire, I think I'd want it to be outside.
FWIW, I have two: one inside the laundry room from the original house and one outside for the addition we did. I guess I'm f-ed either way.
Man I thought I was the only one this annoyed. Moved into this new house probably about 8 years ago and all the electrical stuff is outside, downstairs, in the farthest corner from any door.
If mine caught fire, I think I'd want it to be outside.
FWIW, I have two: one inside the laundry room from the original house and one outside for the addition we did. I guess I'm f-ed either way.
+1 to both statements. Good thing that fire was outside.
Big John
11-11-2014, 06:30
A couple years ago there was someone going around shutting off the main switches at night. While nothing ever came from it and we assumed it to be kids playing pranks, it freaked a few people out pretty good.
I'd certainly be armed if I were going out to investigate this. So can the potential bad guy. I can see where this would be unnerving thinking it was a trap.
james_bond_007
11-11-2014, 08:22
...PLUS! How far away is your nearest outdoor Electrical outlet? Plug in an angle grinder, and voila! you are in most any security feature you could install. ...
...or no outlet is needed for a battery powered Dremel, with cut off wheel
james_bond_007
11-11-2014, 08:24
Our supply / box is 50' inside the perimeter. What is everyone concerned about, you do have a flashlight next to or on a home defense firearm, YES? Or did Being able to ID a threat get lost among the rest of one's safety plans.[?]
Work's great when one is at home...not so great when one is not.
james_bond_007
11-11-2014, 08:33
It appears the box location is a LOCAL spec and not part of the NEC.
Found this for WELD county from their Building and Planning Dept. (Entire article here (http://www.co.weld.co.us/assets/46b60B5977c3D8B4563b.pdf))
The electrical service disconnecting means containing overcurrent protection (main breaker panel) may be located inside the home at a readily accessible location if the service disconnecting means is placed back-to-back with the metering equipment and the total service conductor length does not exceed 3 ½ feet measured from the exterior wall of the home. The service disconnecting means shall also be located on the ground level. [29.2.70A, Weld County Code]
sandman76
11-11-2014, 09:08
In Colorado the power is most generally rear of the lot. This makes it logical to put the electrical service at the rear of the house for the shortest underground or overhead service drop possible. Then economics takes over especially in a track home type situation. Meaning that the panel is placed next to the meter for the least expensive installation.
I cannot count the number of times I've been asked the question of why this is from people that have moved from back East somewhere.
...or no outlet is needed for a battery powered Dremel, with cut off wheel
True.
If someone were to tamper with my box in the middle of the night I would definitely hear it, it is on the other side of one of my bedroom walls. And hopefully if somoene had to cut some stuff off my box to get in it, I would notice as well. It would give me a few extra seconds to gain a position with tactical advantage.
clodhopper
11-11-2014, 09:57
...or no outlet is needed for a battery powered Dremel, with cut off wheel
Bolt cutter. No power, no sound. Right tool for the right job.
Great-Kazoo
11-11-2014, 10:42
Work's great when one is at home...not so great when one is not.
If one is not home, one does not know there is no power. Till you come hone in weather like this and it's colder inside than out.
If one is not home, one does not know there is no power. Till you come hone in weather like this and it's colder inside than out.
That's why I have off-grid Sentry Guns.
If somebody cuts our power, the alarm on the computer UPS system will wake us up(it has in the past). Flashlights in several locations about the house, along with strategically placed tripping hazards(dog toys).
In Colorado the power is most generally rear of the lot.
Maybe where you live. All the houses in Northern Colorado I've built or worked on the electrical service is at the front of the lot, street-side. Low voltage like cable and phone are located at the rear of the lot. Fuse panels on the outside of house are a money saving tactic generally used by larger builders who hire people to save them dimes and pennies. There is no city code in the cities in which I've seen it that requires such a placement of the panel.
There is a good reason. It is called point of entry. You cannot have unprotected conductors entering your home. Now if you mounted a disconnect next to your meter you can move your panel into the house.
newracer
11-11-2014, 12:42
My house was just built last year. It has a panel on the side of the garage with the main disconnect and a few spaces for breakers. Inside the garage on another wall is the panel with all the breakers for the house.
I have heard its fun to turn all the breakers off, then JB Weld the box shut... while the 'target' is away at work.
I have heard its fun to turn all the breakers off, then JB Weld the box shut... while the 'target' is away at work.
And then set the target's neighbor's car alarm so it goes off all day.
There is no code requirement that the breaker box be outside. However, other code requirements, such as FD access to main disconnect, access to meter, enclosure ratings (specifically fire ratings), ratings for conductors in wall cavities etc. make it significantly cheaper to locate the main breaker and sub-panels on the exterior as opposed to the interior. Even on the interior, the main shut-off has to be accessible from the exterior.
We use 2 outlet lights next to the bedrooms that illuminate when the power goes off and our alarm system (including smokes, gas and CO) are on a system not dependent on Xcel, nor the main breaker being on.
Just move into an apartment and let someone else worry about the breaker panels.
;)
If mine caught fire, I think I'd want it to be outside.
FWIW, I have two: one inside the laundry room from the original house and one outside for the addition we did. I guess I'm f-ed either way.
It was a catch-22. The reason it caught fire in the first place was because the ground was so dry that the bentonite contracted and pulled the wires tight. The cheap SOBs that built this housing complex didn't leave any extra wire loop to account for soil/clay expansion or contraction, and the wires were pulled tight enough to twist the meter out of place. It touched the aluminum sides of the meter box, and set off a spark that started the wires on fire. Our bedroom window faces the junction box, and I woke up to see the fire before it got into the attic. The fire department said that they had dealt with over a dozen fires that started that way.
james_bond_007
11-12-2014, 11:13
There is a good reason. It is called point of entry. You cannot have unprotected conductors entering your home. Now if you mounted a disconnect next to your meter you can move your panel into the house.
If this is an NEC requirement, I'd like to read through it. (Can you point me to the text to which you refer? )
What I remember in the Midwest (not saying Midwest is better..just different) is that the panels were on the inside, in both the garage and house.
The ones I'm familiar with, power came from overhead lines, down conduit to the outside meter.
Conduit went to the boxes or the boxes were "opposite" the meter on the same wall (and connected in the same "hole" from inside to outside).
There were no disconnects next to the meter.
Note: This was a house a group up in...things may be different for new housing.
Further, if the fire dept. needed to disconnect power, they pulled the meter.
Guess there are a lot of ways to skin a cat.
james_bond_007
11-12-2014, 11:14
Just move into an apartment and let someone else worry about the breaker panels.
Does not really address the issue...just moves responsibility to someone else.
;)
sandman76
11-12-2014, 11:54
Maybe where you live. All the houses in Northern Colorado I've built or worked on the electrical service is at the front of the lot, street-side. Low voltage like cable and phone are located at the rear of the lot. Fuse panels on the outside of house are a money saving tactic generally used by larger builders who hire people to save them dimes and pennies. There is no city code in the cities in which I've seen it that requires such a placement of the panel.
Yeah, maybe I should have said in the Denver metro area. Which is the area that I've done the electrical work on a shitload of houses since 1977. I do agree, as I said, that economics are the main factor, as bringing the panel inside adds expense. It can be done though.
sabot_round
11-12-2014, 19:29
I will not buy a house where the main breaker is located outside the house. No way Jose!!
SR
Great-Kazoo
11-12-2014, 20:15
I will not buy a house where the main breaker is located outside the house. No way Jose!!
SR
More than likely that puts you in a newer home where power is underground / No power lines AND generally HOA - Covenant controlled.
Back in Minnesota pretty much all the lines came in overhead from the back of the lot and all panels were inside, never saw one outside so location of wires has nothing to do with it. As far as I can tell $$$ is the only factor as to why they put them outside. The expense of 3 ft of wire to put the breaker panel on the other side of the wall from the meter is just too much for some builders.
Actually lines came in underground from the front and the back as well, never resulting in the panel being located outside.
Other things I never saw while working construction on homes until I moved here.. 3 legged ladders and wire hammer staples for romex. All the electricians used the plastic hammer staples.
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