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Pancho Villa
06-23-2009, 06:55
I was looking at the conservative blog "Classical Values," specifically this post (http://www.classicalvalues.com/archives/2009/06/your_rights_are.html[/url) and came across this tidbit:


However, it has to be recognized that [the terrorist watch list] was generated for use during the war on terror, and that there is no constitutional right to fly on a plane. It's an extraordinary measure passed for an extraordinary time.

Conservatism has an awful dearth of scholarly or intellectual voices in it. The evolution of conservative stances (and I think its fair to call them stances rather than ideology, because conservatism tends to be a mishmash of some degree of classical economic liberalism (though much less so today) and statism in regards to certain "hot button" social issues) has fascinated me of late. For example, few people know the evolution of economic policy in the conservative wing of the Republican party.

To put it in small summary: After FDR, Conservatives vowed to roll back The New Deal. After LBJ, they vowed to roll back The Great Society welfare state. After Clinton they vowed to have "smaller government." None of these tasks were ever really accomplished. So the "crisis" facing conservatism today is one that Conservatism goes through in every successive generation. Past performances lead me to believe that the party will shrug, adopt more socialist/fascist policies and continue on.

Anyway, the quote interests me because it harkens back to one of the strongest arguments given against the adoption of the bill of rights.



I go further, and affirm that bills of rights, in the sense and in the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers which are not granted; and on this very account, would afford a colorable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do?

Essentially, the argument was: the government, under the constitution, has only the powers specifically granted to it. Nothing else. The bill of rights implies that it has the power to reach into our lives and regulate all sorts of things, to which those amendments are the exception. But that very view is uncontroversial today, even in what passes for Conservative intellectual circles.

I, personally, do not believe that a more cleverly worded constitution, or one lacking in the BOR would have resulted in a freer America today. Politics is an effect, not a cause; the cause is the philosophic ideas dominant in a culture. But, for anyone with an interest in constituional history or law, it certainly is noteworthy that Alexander Hamilton's words have proven prophetic. There is a good-selling book in there for a scholar who will chart the evolution of constitutional law from a document that regiments and restricts what government can do to a small list of things, to a (small) list of activities that people can expect only a minimum of government interference from, with the rest of the sphere of human activity open to regulation or outright banning on a whim.

RRD3
06-23-2009, 07:15
There is only one reason our government even reads or looks at the Constitution.... to find out ways around it or to bypass it. [Rant1]

GunTroll
06-23-2009, 09:16
There is only one reason our government even reads or looks at the Constitution.... to find out ways around it or to bypass it. [Rant1]

I agree with this!^ It's like they don't view the bill of rights as a constraint but rather a document used better for figuring ways around what the document states! I have been thinking about the current view of the "Constitution is a living document" and needs to adapt or be revised from time to time. I thought the idea was to base our society/government off of this set in stone document. Not change it when it best suites the people in charge. I'm new to this but feel both current "big" parties are failing in this department.

Elhuero
06-23-2009, 22:04
**

TFOGGER
06-24-2009, 09:41
People talk about the Bill of Rights all the time in the context of the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments. These are important, no question. But why are people not as zealous in their defense of the 10th?

RRD3
06-24-2009, 20:22
People talk about the Bill of Rights all the time in the context of the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments. These are important, no question. But why are people not as zealous in their defense of the 10th?


I get just as pissed off about any of our rights being stomped on. Most of the time you do not realize that your rights are being taken away until it's too late. A lot of the sneaky shit is put into another bill with out most knowing.

Yes... including all those ass holes that hold office. Like the Obungo stim package. About 80% of the Dems... and others bitched saying they didn't know this or that was in the bill.

It's good to know these ass hats vote on something based on the first sentence of a bill. Have you ever seen a bill that wasn't 800 pages long?
One sentence would do, but you can't have a bill that says...

House Bill 1167

Do you want to add a .002 percent tax on bread to pay for roads? YES or NO?
Do you want to take away the public's right to free speech? YES or NO?

See.... can sneak shit by with a bill like that.