View Full Version : LEO application
I'll be graduating here in the spring and was looking at the applications for some Counties and saw parts where they want to list any Misdemeanors or felonies that you have committed, whether you were caught or not. Now I'm haven't committed any felonies or anything terrible but I'm human and young so I'm not perfect. What I have been told is to be honest and list anything you have done, it shows honesty and integrity. So my question is what types of stuff will bar you from being considered? Is there some sort of statue of limitations?
stoner01
12-04-2014, 12:58
Honesty is what they're looking for
kidicarus13
12-04-2014, 13:02
It's a WIN-WIN question for their hiring process. If you admit to everything you did and they don't like something you listed they will wash you. If you lie and they find out they will wash you.
Ranger353
12-04-2014, 13:30
I will say that its your choice. BUT, on 2 seperate polys from 2 seperate agencies the examiner has asked me the question "were you completely truthful on your application and with the examiner" I think that is word for word. now if you werent, could you pass a poly? everyone is different.
Honesty is the point here, because although you may have gotten away with something as a young lad, if you don't know what your neighbors and acquaintances will out you for, and then the polygraph will begin to place stress on you and then you may admit to something during the poly exam that wasn't disclosed on the application of background history questionnaire.
They recently reelected a dope smoking foreign queer to the office of the President of the United States.
You'll likely be ok.
Yeah i havnt had any drug use just wonder if one were t say something about anything if they could be charged
Yeah i havnt had any drug use just wonder if one were t say something about anything if they could be charged
What like you had sex with a 16 year old girl when you were 16?
muddywings
12-04-2014, 14:20
Yeah i havnt had any drug use just wonder if one were t say something about anything if they could be charged
Like doing lines of coke off a dead hooker's back side? Inquiring minds want to know....
j/k-- I really don't know to know!
kidicarus13
12-04-2014, 14:21
Yeah i havnt had any drug use just wonder if one were t say something about anything if they could be charged
In extreme cases or kidnapping, murder, or bank robbery? Sure.
Punkface
12-04-2014, 14:29
What like you had sex with a 16 year old girl when you were 16?
That's legal. Age of consent in CO is 15.
HoneyBadger
12-04-2014, 14:30
...like that time when you killed a man with a trident?
So is the homeless guy still in your garage tied up?
Ranger353
12-04-2014, 15:27
What like you had sex with a 16 year old girl when you were 16?
Hahaha, that is exactly the thing that they are looking for. During my pre-interview the investigator asked me about sex with an under aged person, which my response was "No, no-way" but he clarified, even when you were a juvenile? My jaw dropped. Not chargeable due to the statute of limitations, but they are looking for complete honesty and total disclosure. You would be surprised at how many people disclose some sick stuff during those "interviews".
Just be honest. They don't expect you to be perfect. When I filled out my app I put all of the bad stuff I could think about. The hard part is waiting the months and months until you have to take the polygraph and having all that time to think about any other "bad things" that you have done in your life.
Its all a game. When you take the polygraph be truthful and when they ask you "is that all" if you can think of anything tell them.
Hahaha, that is exactly the thing that they are looking for. During my pre-interview the investigator asked me about sex with an under aged person, which my response was "No, no-way" but he clarified, even when you were a juvenile? My jaw dropped. Not chargeable due to the statute of limitations, but they are looking for complete honesty and total disclosure. You would be surprised at how many people disclose some sick stuff during those "interviews".
Exactly right.
That's legal. Age of consent in CO is 15.
Is it really? That seems young to me, but anything under 25 is young these days anyway so what do I know? It was 17 or 18 in different states when I was that age, and i'm only in my 30's.
BushMasterBoy
12-04-2014, 16:16
The age of consent is 17.
Gunner, having been through the process (up to the point of background/poly or CVSA) with 5 different agencies within the last year, I will tell you that honesty is the best policy. I disclosed that back when I was 21 I operated a vehicle when I probably should not have after drinking. I was upfront, honest and regretful about the incident. Did that lead to 4 agencies not hiring me? I can't say with 100% certainty, but I don't really think so. They're aware no one is perfect, my background investigation for the agency I currently work for stressed this, but what they stress more is integrity. We've all made mistakes and bad judgment calls in our lives, and will continue to do so, but owning up to it and realizing it was wrong is more important. I've been told by my SGT and commander both that if I screw up, they'll be much less harsh if I own up to my mess up rather than concealing it.
On a side note, I hate polygraphs, they create a lot of undue stress that studies have shown are prone to creating false positives. I like CVSAs much more as they are far less stressful. Good luck!
Snowman78
12-04-2014, 17:07
Gunner, having been through the process (up to the point of background/poly or CVSA) with 5 different agencies within the last year, I will tell you that honesty is the best policy. I disclosed that back when I was 21 I operated a vehicle when I probably should not have after drinking. I was upfront, honest and regretful about the incident. Did that lead to 4 agencies not hiring me? I can't say with 100% certainty, but I don't really think so. They're aware no one is perfect, my background investigation for the agency I currently work for stressed this, but what they stress more is integrity. We've all made mistakes and bad judgment calls in our lives, and will continue to do so, but owning up to it and realizing it was wrong is more important. I've been told by my SGT and commander both that if I screw up, they'll be much less harsh if I own up to my mess up rather than concealing it.
On a side note, I hate polygraphs, they create a lot of undue stress that studies have shown are prone to creating false positives. I like CVSAs much more as they are far less stressful. Good luck!
Ronin are you a LEO now?
Ronin are you a LEO now?
I was going to ask the same thing. Which agency/department are you working for Ronin? You don't have to answer, I am just curious.
Great-Kazoo
12-04-2014, 17:25
Yeah i havnt had any drug use just wonder if one were t say something about anything if they could be charged
No charges, but it may or may not effect the hiring process. My kid told the guy during .mil questioning she smoked pot at aparty. She was being honest. that guy popped a cork HOW CAN ADMIT THAT? Hey you said be truthful and Honest did you not. End of questions sign here.
Same questions asked when she applied for the academy in CA. There they were, OK as long as you're not addicted to meth, cocaine or heroin. Different agencies have different standards of acceptability.
Age of consent used to be 14 in Hawaii. According to a chart I saw once.
It may not seem like it now, but you are better off being washed before being hired than be terminated for lack of candor two, three, ten years into your career. It does happen.
Standards change, both physical, medical, and moral. If there is something that a specific department passes candidates on and then the policy changes, lowering the bar for any of the standards, those new candidates will be looked at by the currently employed as being less than satisfactory. This is normal, but just adds another layer of stress to an already stressful process.
Polygraphs are a cake walk. It isn't the box, it is the examiner that you will be working with, so listen carefully to the questions during the pre-test interview. Ask clarifying questions and get everything out in the open. It is the little things in the back of your mind that cause your autonomic physiological reactions that require the examiner and the QC process to figure out. If you have been up front and brutally honest, the questions while on the box are actually boring.
Get to know some people already on the job where you are applying.
I would rather be unemployed with integrity than pulling down a fat check and be dirty. Keep in mind, getting hired only gets you in. You will still have to do your 25+ years to actually make it [Flower]
Be safe.
Ranger353
12-05-2014, 16:00
It may not seem like it now, but you are better off being washed before being hired than be terminated for lack of candor two, three, ten years into your career. It does happen.
Standards change, both physical, medical, and moral. If there is something that a specific department passes candidates on and then the policy changes, lowering the bar for any of the standards, those new candidates will be looked at by the currently employed as being less than satisfactory. This is normal, but just adds another layer of stress to an already stressful process.
Polygraphs are a cake walk. It isn't the box, it is the examiner that you will be working with, so listen carefully to the questions during the pre-test interview. Ask clarifying questions and get everything out in the open. It is the little things in the back of your mind that cause your autonomic physiological reactions that require the examiner and the QC process to figure out. If you have been up front and brutally honest, the questions while on the box are actually boring.
Get to know some people already on the job where you are applying.
I would rather be unemployed with integrity than pulling down a fat check and be dirty. Keep in mind, getting hired only gets you in. You will still have to do your 25+ years to actually make it [Flower]
Be safe.
Sounds advice and words of wisdom. [Luck]
Ronin are you a LEO now?
I was going to ask the same thing. Which agency/department are you working for Ronin? You don't have to answer, I am just curious.
Yes and yes... For about a month now.
I'm working for Adams County SO. Currently assigned to the Jail Division.[Beer]
Yes and yes... For about a month now.
I'm working for Adams County SO. Currently assigned to the Jail Division.[Beer]
Congratulations! Enjoy the lovely scenery in Brighton [Coffee]
Congratulations! Enjoy the lovely scenery in Brighton [Coffee]
Well considering I'm on Day shift right now, it's dark when I get to work, and it's dark when I leave... What scenery? [LOL]
does anyone else see the irony here? Adams replaced JM with Ronin?
Wow, that never would have occurred to me, but that is hilarious. JM would have made your new job a hell Ronin.
Wow, that never would have occurred to me, but that is hilarious. JM would have made your new job a hell Ronin.
What ever happend to JM
What ever happend to JM
I think he is waiting to respawn [Coffee]
Pull up your CBI. Any arrests you may have had in Colorado, whether resulting in conviction or not, will be listed. I'd think that they would be looking close to make sure you hadn't missed anything.
HoneyBadger
12-05-2014, 21:56
I think he is waiting to respawn [Coffee]
This made me actually laugh out loud. Mrs. HB gave me a funny look. [ROFL1]
This made me actually laugh out loud. Mrs. HB gave me a funny look. [ROFL1]
That funny look...that could be either very very bad, OR you could be getting lucky tonight [Flower]
OneGuy67
12-16-2014, 07:38
Pull up your CBI. Any arrests you may have had in Colorado, whether resulting in conviction or not, will be listed. I'd think that they would be looking close to make sure you hadn't missed anything.
Not accurate. Only arrests in which fingerprints were sent to CBI will be listed. You can be arrested (such as a DUI), processed and released without fingerprints and it doesn't show on your criminal record maintained by CBI. In my example, it will show on your driving record though.
Any DV convictions, any drug use within last 5 years, and probably any protection order violations, or any violations which prohibit you from owning a gun or driving and its a safe bet you won't be considered. Good luck in the process
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My brother has a good friend (I know him fairly well too) that had a deferred judgement along with sealing of the record. He was informed by both the judge and his attorney that if ever asked "have you been arrested and or convicted of a crime?" he could legally answer "no". A few years go by, he has purchased firearms through ffls and answered "no" wtih no problems-got the nics clearances. Last year he applies for a l.e. job, he answered "no", was ruled out in the initial go-round. He said a friend of his with said dept. told him that even though the record on his case was sealed it showed on their background search. Interesting, no?
james_bond_007
12-16-2014, 14:12
Perhaps you could use their words to your benefit.
Misdemeanors and felonies differ, in definition, from state to state. What is a crime in one state may not be in another.
Laws change from year to year. What is a crime one year may not be the next, or vice versa.
Until you are tried and convicted, your activities are only your "alleged crimes" , thus unless convicted you have no other misdemeanors and felonies than those on record.
By the way, if you were convicted of a felony, they should not have let you into the academy if they knew you would have access to firearms.
MY BIG QUESTION": What is the statute of limitations on being able to convict you on any of the things to which you admit ?
I would be concerned with the fact that that may keep your statement of admission of guilt to specific things as a record.
EX: I stole some video games from the Walmart on 120th/Sheridan when I was 14.
You never know at what time in your life that list may 'go public'...even if it is never supposed to.
If you choose to admit anything, I'd be general and vague: EX: Shoplifted some things when I was a kid vs. the above Walmart example.
I might even spend a few hundred bucks for a good Criminal and/or Employment Lawyer and get some advice about what they CAN and CAN'T require you to do, under the law.
I was told by a lawyer, when a company wanted me to authorize them to look at any of my personal financial records as a condition to hire me, that 'They can do this...If you want the job, then sign it, else don't sign it"
Somehow I kind of feel like it is the police trying to get around the law. Similar to how they often tell you "Whatever you say can and will be used against you." but then try to use tactics to get you to talk ("We'll go easy on you if you cooperate", "Mind if we step in your house for a minute to talk ?" etc.)
I wish you the best of luck in your decision.
It is not an easy thing to freely admit guilt...just ask any Catholic that has gone or still goes to Confession.
Not accurate. Only arrests in which fingerprints were sent to CBI will be listed. You can be arrested (such as a DUI), processed and released without fingerprints and it doesn't show on your criminal record maintained by CBI. In my example, it will show on your driving record though.
Good to know! I usually do pull up the driving record, Cocourts and CBI... I must not have been fully caffeinated when I typed my answer. Thanks for the correction.
Ranger353
12-16-2014, 15:31
My brother has a good friend (I know him fairly well too) that had a deferred judgement along with sealing of the record. He was informed by both the judge and his attorney that if ever asked "have you been arrested and or convicted of a crime?" he could legally answer "no". A few years go by, he has purchased firearms through ffls and answered "no" wtih no problems-got the nics clearances. Last year he applies for a l.e. job, he answered "no", was ruled out in the initial go-round. He said a friend of his with said dept. told him that even though the record on his case was sealed it showed on their background search. Interesting, no?
When I was doing background investigations I often ran into this issue, sealed or ex-sponged arrests due to a differed sentence or a differed prosecution. It doesn't matter what you think is hidden, sealed, or removed, LE agencies will see it. The report we received reflected ALL arrests, not just convictions. That is the key, many people think the question is only pertaining to convictions and don't think beyond that. Not sure why they would think that, but if you have ever been "processed" and released then you have been arrested, and if asked "Have you ever been arrested?" then answer YES and explain it. Just some advice.
OneGuy67
12-18-2014, 06:33
Perhaps you could use their words to your benefit.
Misdemeanors and felonies differ, in definition, from state to state. What is a crime in one state may not be in another.
Laws change from year to year. What is a crime one year may not be the next, or vice versa.
Until you are tried and convicted, your activities are only your "alleged crimes" , thus unless convicted you have no other misdemeanors and felonies than those on record.
By the way, if you were convicted of a felony, they should not have let you into the academy if they knew you would have access to firearms.
MY BIG QUESTION": What is the statute of limitations on being able to convict you on any of the things to which you admit ?
I would be concerned with the fact that that may keep your statement of admission of guilt to specific things as a record.
EX: I stole some video games from the Walmart on 120th/Sheridan when I was 14.
You never know at what time in your life that list may 'go public'...even if it is never supposed to.
If you choose to admit anything, I'd be general and vague: EX: Shoplifted some things when I was a kid vs. the above Walmart example.
I might even spend a few hundred bucks for a good Criminal and/or Employment Lawyer and get some advice about what they CAN and CAN'T require you to do, under the law.
I was told by a lawyer, when a company wanted me to authorize them to look at any of my personal financial records as a condition to hire me, that 'They can do this...If you want the job, then sign it, else don't sign it"
Somehow I kind of feel like it is the police trying to get around the law. Similar to how they often tell you "Whatever you say can and will be used against you." but then try to use tactics to get you to talk ("We'll go easy on you if you cooperate", "Mind if we step in your house for a minute to talk ?" etc.)
I wish you the best of luck in your decision.
It is not an easy thing to freely admit guilt...just ask any Catholic that has gone or still goes to Confession.
As a LEO I can tell you this is bad advice. You go vague, you won't be hired. All LE agencies want to know all your dirt in order to know what type of person they might be hiring and giving authority to. There is a large difference between shoplifting some candy to shoplifting a bike, and it goes to the type of person you were or could still possibly be. As for prosecution of crimes admitted, I haven't seen one, but I have seen where a current LEO was trying to be hired and admitted to things done while a LEO at his current agency and the prospective agency refused to hire him and told his current agency what he admitted to and he was fired from there after an investigation. All your old stuff done while a teenager is most likely over the statute of limitations, e.g. 18 months for misdemeanor, 3 years for a felony (with certain criminal acts not included in this limitation and far too many to mention here).
When I was doing background investigations I often ran into this issue, sealed or ex-sponged arrests due to a differed sentence or a differed prosecution. It doesn't matter what you think is hidden, sealed, or removed, LE agencies will see it. The report we received reflected ALL arrests, not just convictions. That is the key, many people think the question is only pertaining to convictions and don't think beyond that. Not sure why they would think that, but if you have ever been "processed" and released then you have been arrested, and if asked "Have you ever been arrested?" then answer YES and explain it. Just some advice.
What he said.
The judge's order removes the ability of the public to view that case, but it doesn't remove it from access by law enforcement.
I do have one addition to what Ranger said, having done the process very recently:
Things you didn't know they could find out, they can, and probably will. I had a contact with Clear Creek Country SO back in 2005. Nothing resulted, but in my background interview I was asked about the circumstances. This came as a surprise as I thought I was excluded from the purpose of their contact (underage drinking, I was the DD for my friends at a party in the woods). They can find out, so best to be honest, unless you forget (like in my case) and you have that 'oh, right!' moment and need to explain. Always remember, the most important thing for LE is integrity. Once that's gone it's impossible to do your job very well.
These are positions of public service. They are a public trust.
If you have issues in your past that will embarrass you or diminish the reputation of the employing agency, you DO NOT want to work there.
Whatever your background investigation fails to uncover WILL be exposed by defense attorneys and members of the media the first time your on or off duty conduct is called into question.
Bore your background investigators and HR people with all of the things I can assure you they have seen numerous times prior to you. If you legitimately forget something and are asked, admit you forgot and tell them everything.
See Giglio v U.S and Brady v Maryland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giglio_v._United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_v._Maryland
Be safe.
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