14.5 vs 16?

[def90]

Trying to decide what barrel length I should go with on my one and only AR build at the moment. I have heavier caliber rifles for impact and long distance. What distance does the 14.5 start losing effectiveness and accuracy? I am trying to build more of a lightweight tactical/defense/3 gun type rifle rather than a long distance MOA rifle.

I am also pondering a suppressor for this rifle.

[drew890]

Recommend going 16 inch as it will give you more flexibility for flash hiders, comps, and future suppressor mounts.

[Alpha2]

I thought it would be cool to have a 14.5". Pinned and welded YHM suppressor adapter in it. Then decided to put a Lantac Dragon on the rifle. So drilled it out and welded the comp on it. Then decided to change the forearm.

Long story short, I should've just put a 16" on the build. Totally not worth the hassle to have to keep the darn thing legal. Now, if you just do stuff to rifles and then leave it be, it would work for you. Apparently, I'm not that guy!

Oh, then I built another AR around the barrel, dedicating it to the YHM flash-hider/suppressor adapter. I have been looking a it again lately, though.....

[kwando]

SBR a 14.5" and you don't have to worry about pin and welding it... Or go 11.5" :)


Or get a can with a dedicated mount. That will make you think twice about switching flash hiders

[mtnrider]

You lose about 80 fps going down to a 14.5 vs 16. Not a lot. 16 is going to be more flexible since you don't have to pin the flash hider (unless you SBR). I have a 14.5, it's cool but also have several 16's and just wanted to be well rounded :-)

[LiveFireArmory1]

I like Kwando's idea of just SBR the shorter and the dedicated mount :)

If that's not an option then I would always go with the 16". Most flexible like the other guys are saying

[275RLTW]

Tactical/defense & 3 gun are different needs. As stated before, a normal 16" will be the easiest to change around and will work adequately (not optimally) for all those purposes.

[def90]

So 16 it is.. if I get a suppressor for it should I be concerned about the extra weight at the muzzle and the barrel profile? For instance would POI be effected more if you stuck a suppressor on a pencil barrel vs a medium weight barrel?

[TheBelly]

Depends on your acceptable level of poi shift.

ive had an all steel can on the end of a 16" barrel for a couple years. Never had an issue with it. The barrel profile for that barrel is ....uhh...medium, I guess..

[mcantar18c]

Not once on my deployments have I ever thought "Man, if only I had an extra inch and a half of barrel..."
I say save length where you can. I see more benefit in having a little less material swinging around in front of you when moving/shooting than in... what, an extra 80fps according to mtnrider?

[TheBelly]

Not once on my deployments have I ever thought "Man, if only I had an extra inch and a half of barrel..."
I say save length where you can. I see more benefit in having a little less material swinging around in front of you when moving/shooting than in... what, an extra 80fps according to mtnrider?



Size doesn't matter, it's how you use it! [Coffee]

[MarkCO]

Tactical/defense & 3 gun are different needs.

Not really. If it works in one it will work in the other. Lots of guys running 14.5 and 16" guns at very high speed. When the targets are almost always 4MOA or more, 3Gun is not really precision. Most mid-level to novice shooters in 3Gun suffer with rifle because they shoot too slow or don't understand mechanical offset. 16" probably is optimal for most 3Gun matches.


So 16 it is.. if I get a suppressor for it should I be concerned about the extra weight at the muzzle and the barrel profile? For instance would POI be effected more if you stuck a suppressor on a pencil barrel vs a medium weight barrel?

Yes, the POI will shift a bit more with a pencil and the groups might even open up a tad. However, we are not talking about more than an inch or so at 100. I shot a 16" Pencil barreled AR at all 3 of the CTC midnight matches, one time suppressed. For all practical purposes there was no shift that made any difference out to 200 yards. I would choose the barrel I want to use the most and then deal with the suppressor.

[ChunkyMonkey]

I went through this years back.. at the end, it doesnt matter :D

[O2HeN2]

For just the velocity aspect: Ballistics By The Inch (http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/)

O2

[def90]

Not really. If it works in one it will work in the other. Lots of guys running 14.5 and 16" guns at very high speed. When the targets are almost always 4MOA or more, 3Gun is not really precision.

That's what I was thinking, not trying to build a coyote/prairie dog gun or a cmp service rifle shooter..


Yes, the POI will shift a bit more with a pencil and the groups might even open up a tad. However, we are not talking about more than an inch or so at 100.


OK, trying to get an idea of a good trade off as far as muzzle weight vs change in accuracy. Thinking that the weight savings of a thinner barrel equaling the weight of the added suppressor.

Also, is there any reading anywhere on determining a good balance point for an AR? Such as if your front end weighs X number of pounds that you should be looking for a buttstock around X number of pounds?

Just want to build it as close to being right the 1st time that I can. :)

Thanks!

[pinz712m]

I thought it would be cool to have a 14.5". Pinned and welded YHM suppressor adapter in it. Then decided to put a Lantac Dragon on the rifle. So drilled it out and welded the comp on it. Then decided to change the forearm.

Long story short, I should've just put a 16" on the build. Totally not worth the hassle to have to keep the darn thing legal. Now, if you just do stuff to rifles and then leave it be, it would work for you. Apparently, I'm not that guy!

Oh, then I built another AR around the barrel, dedicating it to the YHM flash-hider/suppressor adapter. I have been looking a it again lately, though.....

How hard is that to do? I am in the same boat right now. Thinking of moving to a Surefire comp, but am not sure if I can do it.

[Alpha2]

How hard is that to do? I am in the same boat right now. Thinking of moving to a Surefire comp, but am not sure if I can do it.

If you're talking about pinning and welding, it's not bad. It's better than the multi-point welding of "at least 3/4 of the radius" or whatever. I drilled a hole sized for a short cut-off section of shirt hanger. Countersunk the "pin" a bit so I could drill slightly oversized the hole the pin went into, then had the area welded a bit. I don't weld, so I had it done by those who I depend on for skills I don't have. I do a lot of stuff, with a lot of skills, but a man's got to know his limitations. The cheap oxy/acetylene kit at the local lowes won't do the trick, trust me, don't even try it.
You know someone that welds, that's your guy. BTW, soldering, etc, is not legal for this. It has to be welded.

[hatidua]

If you're talking about pinning and welding, it's not bad. It's better than the multi-point welding of "at least 3/4 of the radius" or whatever. I drilled a hole sized for a short cut-off section of shirt hanger. Countersunk the "pin" a bit so I could drill slightly oversized the hole the pin went into, then had the area welded a bit. I don't weld, so I had it done by those who I depend on for skills I don't have. I do a lot of stuff, with a lot of skills, but a man's got to know his limitations. The cheap oxy/acetylene kit at the local lowes won't do the trick, trust me, don't even try it.
You know someone that welds, that's your guy. BTW, soldering, etc, is not legal for this. It has to be welded.

You could have saved yourself a ton of typing by simply saying "Call Bert at BPTactical".

Bert does the cleanest welds you'll ever see, it's quick, very cost effective, and a pleasant person to deal with. Or, you can franken-weld it.... I chose the former.

[def90]

You know someone that welds, that's your guy. BTW, soldering, etc, is not legal for this. It has to be welded.

Don't they allow silver solder anymore?

[cysoto]

14.5" for targets inside of 200 yds, and 20" out to 600 yds. For everything else, go with a bolt gun.

[SAnd]

Don't they allow silver solder anymore?
I took what he said to mean you can only weld the pin in.

Everything I have found still says you can still use high temperature silver solder to attach the extension. Higher than 1100 degree F silver solder.

[pinz712m]

If you're talking about pinning and welding, it's not bad. It's better than the multi-point welding of "at least 3/4 of the radius" or whatever. I drilled a hole sized for a short cut-off section of shirt hanger. Countersunk the "pin" a bit so I could drill slightly oversized the hole the pin went into, then had the area welded a bit. I don't weld, so I had it done by those who I depend on for skills I don't have. I do a lot of stuff, with a lot of skills, but a man's got to know his limitations. The cheap oxy/acetylene kit at the local lowes won't do the trick, trust me, don't even try it.
You know someone that welds, that's your guy. BTW, soldering, etc, is not legal for this. It has to be welded.

Thanks, I was also wondering how you got it off without killing the threads. I looked on youtube a bit but did not find anything good.
Looks like I should give BPTactical a call. Maybe its not worth the risk of me screwing it up.

[BPTactical]

There are 3 acceptable methods to permanently affix a muzzle device per the alphabet crew:
1- silver bearing solder with a melting point of no less than 1100 degrees F.
2- continuous fusion weld of the circumference of the device/barrel joint that covers at least 180 degrees of the circumference.
3- pin and weld.

Options 1 and 2 suck IMHO. Option 1-you are putting a tremendous amount of heat into the most critical part of the barrel, I have seen chrome peel and blister from the heat in a bore.
Option 2- besides looking like hell the weld area will shrink. I have seen barrels with a visible "droop" of the muzzle device from Joe Blow MIG welding a device on.

Pin and weld is the cleanest and also the easiest to reverse if you want down the road. It also is the least invasive (unless you drill too deep)