PSA KABOOM: NEVER USE A MALLET TO EXTRACT A LIVE ROUND FROM AN M1A

[bellavite1]

Got a live round stuck in the chamber of my Socom II.
Take out my mallet, hit it once, moves but goes back in..twice the same...third time is a charm, right?
BOOM!
I think I must have got a slam fire/hang fire combination, my hand is peppered, extractor is gone and so is the ejector, hopefully no damage to the bolt.
Bolt came out of the charging handle, hit the scout scope, nice little dent, we'll see if it kept zero.
Off to Bert I go...
Oh, and Merry Christmas...[Bang]

[Jamnanc]

Wow. Glad your ok. We're you using a rod, or striking the ch?

[bellavite1]

Striking the CH, thankfully...

[SideShow Bob]

Oops, double posted trying to edit.

[SideShow Bob]

I am having a problem visualizing just how you were using a mallet to remove a stuck live round from the chamber.
Could you explain it a bit better ?

Were you beating on the operating rod handle to force the bolt open and extract the round ?

And where did the bullet go when the ND happened ?

Glad you are relatively unharmed, but I bet your shorts are a little poopy.....

[bellavite1]

Yes beating on the handle.
Bullet went down the barrel down range, round was not fully extracted , brass separated at the head, which is why I am calling it a slam/ hangfire...shorts are ok, thanks for asking...
And, as far as this being a ND, I am not sure that is the case, I did not quite have much of a choice at that point.
But then again I am quite new to M!As, is there a better way to do that? (advice welcome, not being sarcastic)

[ray1970]

Glad to hear you had it pointed down range and weren't trying to clear it in the house. Glad you have all your fingers and toes as well.
[Beer]

[SideShow Bob]

I guess you are correct, not an ND, being that you had the muzzle pointed down range in a safe direction.
I had imagined you at home with the butt of the rifle up on a workbench, hammering down on the op rod handle and then KABOOM.

[Hitman 6]

Scary. Glad you're ok. I'm an amateur M1A shooter myself (national match and a SOCOM 16) can you tell us what ammo you were shooting that got stuck?

[jmg8550]

Why didn't you just shoot the stuck round and let the rifle extract it for you?

[XC700116]

Why didn't you just shoot the stuck round and let the rifle extract it for you?

I'm guessing it probably wasn't fully in battery, and therefore not able to fire in a normal fashion.


One thing I'd say "might" have helped was to do the mortar job on it, using your hand to hang onto the charging handle and butt stroking it on the ground like you would with an AR, which "should" help you maintain control of the bolt and not have a chance of a slam fire. But internet quarterbacking is pretty insufficient on this one. I've heard of this having to be done on M1A's before, but never owned one so it's all second hand info.

[bellavite1]

Correct, not fully in battery.
The hammer had fallen without firing.
In hind sight, and after some research, i could have removed the trigger group, cocked the hammer and put it back in to fire, but that would have been probably worse, if this was infact a hang fire, with my hand pushing on the trigger guard.
They were my reloads.
New hornady brass, already shot through the same rifle twice, neck sized (i guess full sizing is a must on M1As).

[Hoser]

(i guess full sizing is a must on M1As).

Yup. You cant get away with neck sizing on semi autos.

[def90]

One thing I'd say "might" have helped was to do the mortar job on it, using your hand to hang onto the charging handle and butt stroking it on the ground like you would with an AR, which "should" help you maintain control of the bolt and not have a chance of a slam fire. But internet quarterbacking is pretty insufficient on this one. I've heard of this having to be done on M1A's before, but never owned one so it's all second hand info.

I'll say it.. Yep.. do the pogo, not sure why people think beating on a rifle part with a mallet is ever a good idea. Actually the above technique will easily extract stuck rounds, have had to do it a few times on my FALs. While maintaining downward pressure on the charging handle hold the rifle 6 inches or so off the ground muzzle up and with a swift motion drive the rifle butt into the ground while pushing on the charging handle.. round will pop right out.

[BPTactical]

M1A's are prone to slam-fire, so much so that a full page article/warning is included with a new M1A.
A Garand can do it as well.
The causative factor is typically softer commercial primers.
When the bolt rides home by recoil spring energy there is enough inertia to have the firing pin travel upon bolt closure, denting the primer. In softer primed ammo this can be sufficient to ignite the primer.
In Luigi's case the third time was a charm, the prior attempts to clear the round probably dented the primer and the third slam of the bolt was enough to light her off.


Never try to reuse a round that did not fire in a M1A or Garand.
The problem can be worse towards the last few rounds of a magazine/clip. The recoil spring on them is quite stout, it has to be to reliably strip a round and close the bolt into full battery. As spring tension on the magazine/clip drops the closer to empty the magazine/clip gets, the recoil spring closes the bolt faster causing the firing pin to fly forward with more inertia.
If single loading a round in one ride the operating rod forward about halfway, then let the recoil spring close the bolt.

[bellavite1]

Well, does anyone know of a local place where I can go and buy etractor, ejector, springs etc?
Don't know that Bert keeps a supply of those...

[Ah Pook]

This is all I could imagine while reading the thread.

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110219190145/looneytunes/images/9/9c/Gremlin2.jpg

[BPTactical]

This is all I could imagine while reading the thread.

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110219190145/looneytunes/images/9/9c/Gremlin2.jpg


I just spit Pepsi out of my nose.....

[bellavite1]

Funny guy...[Kick2]
Back on topic, here's what's left:
http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q358/bellavite1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20141226_131616139_zpsgesrrvb5.jpg (http://s348.photobucket.com/user/bellavite1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20141226_131616139_zpsgesrrvb5.jpg.html)
http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q358/bellavite1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20141226_131659616_zpsjuvyj6tx.jpg (http://s348.photobucket.com/user/bellavite1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20141226_131659616_zpsjuvyj6tx.jpg.html)
http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q358/bellavite1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20141226_131640966_zps9qyhk7sc.jpg (http://s348.photobucket.com/user/bellavite1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20141226_131640966_zps9qyhk7sc.jpg.html)

I am obviously no expert (ha ha!), but I believe all I need is an extractor and an ejector.
Can anyone confirm?
Anybody willing to help a brother and sell them out of their pasrts bin?
C'mon, it's Christmas...[Muaha]

[BlasterBob]

M1A's are prone to slam-fire, so much so that a full page article/warning is included with a new M1A.
A Garand can do it as well.
The causative factor is typically softer commercial primers.
When the bolt rides home by recoil spring energy there is enough inertia to have the firing pin travel upon bolt closure, denting the primer. In softer primed ammo this can be sufficient to ignite the primer.
In Luigi's case the third time was a charm, the prior attempts to clear the round probably dented the primer and the third slam of the bolt was enough to light her off.


Never try to reuse a round that did not fire in a M1A or Garand.
The problem can be worse towards the last few rounds of a magazine/clip. The recoil spring on them is quite stout, it has to be to reliably strip a round and close the bolt into full battery. As spring tension on the magazine/clip drops the closer to empty the magazine/clip gets, the recoil spring closes the bolt faster causing the firing pin to fly forward with more inertia.
If single loading a round in one ride the operating rod forward about halfway, then let the recoil spring close the bolt.

Bert, thanks for the easy to understand explanation. I have been farting around with Garands for years and had never heard of the procedure that you mentioned but it does certainly make sense. THANKS

[jmg8550]

Treeline M14.com. The beretta extractors made for the M1 Garand work just fine. Same ejector plunger from an M1 as well.