View Full Version : NY Navy vet/retired LEO seeks help for insomnia gets firearms confiscated ---->
DavieD55
01-03-2015, 06:02
Coming to a healthcare provider near you...
From Before It's News
Friday, January 2, 2015
For those who have always believed that it can’t happen here, think again, because it IS happening, and things are only going to get worse as data surveillance becomes a way of life.
Gun confiscation at the hands of medical records sharing is now officially a reality, with serious consequences for the individuals involved.
Now, under ObamaCare, the United States is on pace to swiftly become a snitch society that would make East Germany and Soviet Russia blush.
One former Navy man and 30-year police force veteran is suing the relevant authorities in New York after four of his legally registered firearms were confiscated as a result of his seeking voluntary treatment for insomnia.
Despite the fact that he has no criminal record, was diagnosed with only “mild depression” and his record explicitly noted that there was no concern for violence, the man was listed as a “mental defective.” And thanks to New York’s “SAFE Act” for Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement Act of 2013, his weapons were seized by the local sheriff’s office after his records were shared and New York State Police made repeated requests for confiscation, as American Thinker reported:
According to the suit, the hospital diagnosed the plaintiff as “mildly depressed,” and his clinical evaluation stated, “Patient has no thoughts of hurting himself. Patient has no thoughts of hurting others. Patient is not having suicidal thoughts. Patient is not having homicidal thoughts…” and “there is no evidence of any psychotic processes, mania, or OCD symptoms. Insight, judgment, and impulse control are good.” The suit further alleges that a psychiatrist told the plaintiff, “I don’t know why you were referred here. You don’t belong here.”
Nonetheless, the suit contends that five days after being discharged from the hospital, the local sheriff’s department showed up at Montgomery’s door and seized his four registered handguns, including his former duty sidearm, after the sheriff had been subjected to “repeated pressure” by the New York State Police, who claimed that Montgomery had been declared mentally defective and had been involuntarily committed to a mental institution.
Montgomery alleges that the hospital violated his privacy by transmitting his medical information to the State Police without his consent or knowledge. Montgomery subsequently requested a hearing to have his handgun ownership permit reinstated, but the sheriff’s department allegedly terminated his permit without a hearing.
The plaintiff, Donald Montgomery, filed a lawsuit against numerous parties connected to the incident, including Gov. Andrew Cuomo, Vincent DeMarco, Sheriff of Suffolk County, and Joseph D’Amico, Superintendent of the New York State Police, alleging violations of several of his Constitutional amendments, including violations of the safeguards for the right to bear arms, for privacy, against unwarranted search and seizure, for due process and for equal protection under the law.
Full article:
(http://beforeitsnews.com/survival/2015/01/it-is-happening-here-permanent-gun-confiscation-ordered-after-veteran-sought-voluntary-treatment-for-insomnia-2553642.html)
buffalobo
01-03-2015, 06:15
Another step on the path...
wctriumph
01-03-2015, 08:27
You would think with all the bluster about how New York residents are so tough and independent that something like this could not happen there. The reality is that the residents of New York are full of crap, all talk. There must be something in the water that has made them this stupid, maybe too much reality TV.
At least this guy is fighting back. Maybe others will get the idea.
OtterbatHellcat
01-03-2015, 08:28
That blows.
Myself and some friends had this conversation on New Years Eve. Two of us are of the belief that "everything is awesome" when we go to the doctor. We don't believe for a second they won't use medical information to do this stuff. One friend (pro 2A) thinks doctors do need to ask about guns in the house. He's in the medical field and feels its a good place to identify potential situations. We told him our concern that it'd be abused and used as a tool and he didn't agree. I sent him this article and he's having a hard time believing it. This is their next move, on top of attacking at the state level. It will be effective due to too many people wanting to address the mental health side of things so they'll share with the belief theyll never be classified as "defective".
Great-Kazoo
01-03-2015, 09:07
Myself and some friends had this conversation on New Years Eve. Two of us are of the belief that "everything is awesome" when we go to the doctor. We don't believe for a second they won't use medical information to do this stuff. One friend (pro 2A) thinks doctors do need to ask about guns in the house. He's in the medical field and feels its a good place to identify potential situations. We told him our concern that it'd be abused and used as a tool and he didn't agree. I sent him this article and he's having a hard time believing it. This is their next move, on top of attacking at the state level. It will be effective due to too many people wanting to address the mental health side of things so they'll share with the belief theyll never be classified as "defective".
Perhaps he should be sent the west coast response to mental issues. This one from that left side of the aisle smearing outlet. from 2013.
But, But this is not possible say Pro 2A defenders who voted for Obama and other D's. People like we have on this and other gun forums.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/california-gun-confiscation_n_2717809.html
The program, which takes guns away from criminals and the mentally ill, is being heralded as a model for the nation.
wctriumph
01-03-2015, 09:35
Now that the government is running health care, there will be no medical records privacy. With the push for mental illness to disqualify a person from owning any weapons, the next step will be for the government perform a prescription search through "their" medical records and if you were ever prescribed an anti-depressant or anxiety med, you will be deemed unfit to own any weapons. Then the courts will say that it is constitutional to confiscate your weapons for the good of yourself and for the good of the many. They don't need to pass any laws for this, it will be through the rules and regulation process and the actions and penalties will carry the force of law. The armed IRS agents will show up at your door and will not need a warrant to search your residence or place of business. The courts will OK it and we will all be screwed.
TEA
III
DavieD55
01-03-2015, 09:38
And for those who prefer a more reliable source.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/01/02/military-vet-sought-treatment-for-insomnia-days-later-ny-police-officers-were-knocking-on-his-door-lawsuit/
KestrelBike
01-03-2015, 10:07
And for those who prefer a more reliable source.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/01/02/military-vet-sought-treatment-for-insomnia-days-later-ny-police-officers-were-knocking-on-his-door-lawsuit/
Fox needs to pick this story up, but I'd also like to see drudge link to it.
And now we know what all the FEMA camps are for....
Beyond messed up! [Mad]
The retired LEO part is a nice touch too. Maybe that will win some hearts and minds for those who are called upon to enforce these "laws." Any LEO that has been on a high speed chase has PTSD--so once retired (of no use to gov) we can all assume this is how they will be treated.
Montgomery alleges that the hospital violated his privacy by transmitting his medical information to the State Police without his consent or knowledge. Montgomery subsequently requested a hearing to have his handgun ownership permit reinstated, but the sheriff’s department allegedly terminated his permit without a hearing.
I'm noticing more and more, in stories like this and my own personal/professional life, is that those who lean Lib seek arbitrary authority to make significant decisions. The only defense is to deny petty tyrants the opportunity in the first place because due process is most certainly dead.
Cujo0920
01-03-2015, 14:13
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/01/guns_confiscated_after_man_seeks_insomnia_treatmen t.html#ixzz3NlbTbrfm
In the old Soviet and East German police states of the Cold War, police kept secret files on scores of common people. Information was fed to the police by thousands of clandestine sources – and a seemingly banal or routine interaction with nearly anyone could lead to a surprise “knock on the door” by authorities. During the late Soviet era, communist leadership moved away from the executions and purges of the Stalin years and began to increasingly rely upon medical professionals to diagnose “enemies of the state” as insane – thus, a routine trip to your doctor could lead to a visit from police.
Although the Cold War ended over two decades ago, a lawsuit filed December 17 in U.S. District Court in Rochester, NY alleges that such heavy-handed police-state tactics are presently being employed in Andrew Cuomo’s New York. The suit, filed by attorney Paloma Capanna on behalf of plaintiff Donald Montgomery, alleges that the New York State Police ordered the permanent confiscation of Mr. Montgomery’s registered handguns after he sought treatment for insomnia. The confiscation was ordered under Cuomo’s “SAFE Act” gun-control law.
The allegations in the case are downright scary. The complaint contends that Montgomery, a Navy veteran and retired police officer who rose to the rank of detective sergeant during his 30-year career, voluntarily sought treatment for insomnia at a hospital on Long Island in May of 2014 after relocating to a new home several hundred miles from his previous residence.
According to the suit, the hospital diagnosed the plaintiff as “mildly depressed,” and his clinical evaluation stated, “Patient has no thoughts of hurting himself. Patient has no thoughts of hurting others. Patient is not having suicidal thoughts. Patient is not having homicidal thoughts…” and “there is no evidence of any psychotic processes, mania, or OCD symptoms. Insight, judgment, and impulse control are good.” The suit further alleges that a psychiatrist told the plaintiff, “I don’t know why you were referred here. You don’t belong here.”
Nonetheless, the suit contends that five days after being discharged from the hospital, the local sheriff’s department showed up at Montgomery’s door and seized his four registered handguns, including his former duty sidearm, after the sheriff had been subjected to “repeated pressure” by the New York State Police, who claimed that Montgomery had been declared mentally defective and had been involuntarily committed to a mental institution.
Medical records should be possessed by the people, and only given out for use to their doctors at their own discretion.
hurley842002
01-03-2015, 14:36
Late to the party. ..
mcantar18c
01-03-2015, 14:39
Any LEO that has been on a high speed chase has PTSD
OK, I've never been on a high speed chase, but... seriously?
I'm noticing more and more, in stories like this and my own personal/professional life, is that those who lean Lib seek arbitrary authority to make significant decisions. The only defense is to deny petty tyrants the opportunity in the first place because due process is most certainly dead.
Yep. The Second Amendment is extremely clear...
Medical records should be possessed by the people, and only given out for use to their doctors at their own discretion.
I fully agree with this sentiment. We have our medical records in our possession, and when we go to the hospital in a couple months I'll bring her records. If they have any questions, they may review them, and when we leave they're coming home with us.
Great-Kazoo
01-03-2015, 15:22
Paging HBAR....
He's working night shift. I got it.
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/144191-NY-Navy-vet-retired-LEO-seeks-help-for-insomnia-gets-firearms-confiscated-gt
Zundfolge
01-03-2015, 15:23
This is why I won't even so much as socialize with psychologists or psychiatrists. Gettin' that way with pretty much any government worker these days.
kidicarus13
01-03-2015, 16:08
Next we'll have the NRA rating physicians.
OK, I've never been on a high speed chase, but... seriously?
I should have clarified...
i don't think that, but it's what they'll say. Just like every combat vet has PTSD (what they also claim).
if they're claiming a retired LEO who can't sleep is a threat, there's no end to the insanity.
Zundfolge
01-03-2015, 20:42
We have our medical records in our possession, and when we go to the hospital in a couple months I'll bring her records. If they have any questions, they may review them, and when we leave they're coming home with us.
Good luck with that ... Obamacare requires all medical care providers to have their records in an approved electronic format by 2015.
Hope the dude gets paid a HUGE...wait, no, a FUCKiNG MoNSTEROUS claim by both the hospital and the sheriff and anybody else involved. This type of shit should not be happening.
But this is an excellent case to send up the chain and get the case law out early and fast. That will be a big win and probably kill the doctor questions for good, if they take it that far.
Pray that we don't lose one of those five justices in the next two years.... PRAY.
This is the type of case Firearm groups should jump on just for that reason - major ability to have wide effect in case law.
Hopefully the Judges could see that they too might become affected ,if they are going after retired LEOS judges might be next on the hit list. I'm certain some of them loose sleep. And if they are pro 2a they are definitely a target.
Great-Kazoo
01-04-2015, 00:09
1 or 2 NY Pro gun .orgs are challenging this now. The problem is as one goes up the judicial chain, less likely to find an open minded judge.
hurley842002
01-04-2015, 00:13
Late to the party. ..
Paging HBAR....
I guess I could have included a link to the other thread, but I didn't want to step on HBAR'S toes.
I guess I could have included a link to the other thread, but I didn't want to step on HBAR'S toes.
Gotta keep him on his toes [Coffee]
Bailey Guns
01-04-2015, 08:37
I saw a doctor a few months ago for a (lack of) sleep issue. I'm supposed to have a sleep study done as well though I haven't been able to schedule it yet. I'm former military. I'm former LEO. Doesn't look good...
KestrelBike
01-04-2015, 10:01
But this is an excellent case to send up the chain and get the case law out early and fast. That will be a big win and probably kill the doctor questions for good, if they take it that far.
Pray that we don't lose one of those five justices in the next two years.... PRAY.
This is the type of case Firearm groups should jump on just for that reason - major ability to have wide effect in case law.
Im just glad Ginsburg didn't die or get pushed in front of a bus or quit before now.
Bailey Guns
01-04-2015, 10:54
Im just glad Ginsburg didn't die or get pushed in front of a bus or quit before now.
You should be more glad one of the more conservative justices hasn't left the bench (for whatever reason). If it was Ginsburg she'd just be replaced by Obama with another liberal and the status quo would be maintained.
KestrelBike
01-04-2015, 14:53
You should be more glad one of the more conservative justices hasn't left the bench (for whatever reason). If it was Ginsburg she'd just be replaced by Obama with another liberal and the status quo would be maintained.
Quite True. But think how likely Ginsburg is to leave her seat in the next 2 presidential cycles (she's 81 now), and how nice it'd be to further solidy the "conservative" side of the bench by replacing her, instead of letting them refresh that (D) seat for another 20+ years.
ETA: In fact, I bet that obama is privately *quite* pissed that she didn't take one for the team and step down while the senate had a (D) majority. I just don't see her holding on for another 9 years.
*scowl* I don't like doctors. I hate going to see the doctor- they ask you all sorts of nosy questions and they take your pants and feel free to offer you unsolicited advice.
I bite dentists, too.
You can bet that this type of business will ensure that I stay well away from any sort of medical facility, unless I'm missing a limb. Even then, I'll think twice.
To be fair, doctors ask a lot of questions because people won't mention things that they don't believe to be related, but often times are. This is a big deal when translators are used. The translator will repeat the gist of what the person is saying, believing that they are streamlining the process for the doctor, but the doctor wants to know exactly what the person is saying, to help diagnose correctly. Now whether your doctor actually listens to you, or correctly hears what you are saying is a different matter altogether.
I can see the point with the translation issue. That's never been a problem with me.
In my experience, doctors not only don't listen, but they already have preconceived ideas about issues. I've only heard of ONE doctor that was worth his salt, and his 'retirement' meant that he could work the schedule he wanted. My Dad was fortunate enough to get him as a doc, which is a BIG reason why my folks aren't living here in Colorado.
kidicarus13
01-04-2015, 21:56
To be fair, doctors ask a lot of questions because people won't mention things that they don't believe to be related, but often times are. This is a big deal when translators are used. The translator will repeat the gist of what the person is saying, believing that they are streamlining the process for the doctor, but the doctor wants to know exactly what the person is saying, to help diagnose correctly.
Translator?! Is it not normal for me to speak the same language as my doctor? Maybe I'm confused.
Translator?! Is it not normal for me to speak the same language as my doctor? Maybe I'm confused.
Well, if you don't speak English and live here, yes that is normal. Even if you DO speak English, it is not uncommon to revert to your first language in an emergency or you've taken a blow, had a stroke, in very poor health, etc, etc. People who only speak English have a difficult enough time trying to explain something to a doctor if they've just been in a car accident or something.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/6/va-free-gun-locks-raises-concerns-gun-registry/
Interesting.
Why can't you just get a medical voucher for your service so you can seek treatment anywhere you want? Then they could just disband the VA altogether. I probably just snared my own question.
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