Ideas and opinions needed

[ray1970]

Looking for a precision type toy. I don't have plans on shooting it past about five hundred yards or so. Not planning on taking out any bad guys with it either. Could possibly see limited use on coyotes or prairie dogs but doubtful. Also, I have some shoulder issues that make shooting larger calibers unpleasant.

With all of that in mind, I am leaning towards something based off the AR platform and chambered in 223/5.56. Maybe some sort or varmint style setup. I haven't totally ruled out a bolt action rifle though. Or other calibers as long as they are easy on my shoulder.

I'm not looking to spend a fortune but don't want to buy junk either. Hoping to keep it around $2K including optics if I can.

I welcome thoughts and ideas as I've been looking at different stuff and just can't make a decision on what I want to do.

Thanks.

[J]

Savage 223 bolt build, get a better stock and trigger, then put the rest into something like a SWFA SS, or Vortex PST optic.

[J]

Here is what said combination can do:

https://www.ar-15.co/threads/124845-New-Best-for-Shooter-and-Rifle

[nisils14]

You can easily build another upper in AR Platform with lots of room for a good optic and maybe some other goodies. I have a rifle gassed 18", which is easily my favorite setup to shoot. It's easily low sub-moa with good ammo, It'll get decent accuracy with blaster ammo.

[ray1970]

Thanks, J. The Savage rifles are shooters for sure. I had one years ago. Had the original barrel re-chambered for 223 Ackley with a tighter neck. Would shoot under 1/2" at 100 yards all day with just about any load I fed it.

Kind of looking for something a little "cooler".

If I do a bolt action I might stick it in an XLR chassis or something. And I would want a heavy barrel for sure.

[ray1970]

You can easily build another upper in AR Platform with lots of room for a good optic and maybe some other goodies. I have a rifle gassed 18", which is easily my favorite setup to shoot. It's easily low sub-moa with good ammo, It'll get decent accuracy with blaster ammo.

I don't tend to swap uppers around too much. I'd just build a complete, dedicated rifle. But there are factory rifles cheaper than I can build something right now.

I'm kind of liking the Rock River A4 Varmint model in either the 18" or 20" model.

DPMS offers a good looking rifle in their TRP with a stainless 20"'barrel but I can't find any real good info on it's accuracy potential and not sue I could bring myself to spend $1K on anything DPMS builds.

[Hound]

Suppressed Rem 700 in 308. Mine is built to shoot like a .22 yet is great for long range.

[XC700116]

With an AR, Hands down, no question either buy PREMIUM complete rifle (like a JP, Larue, POF, Seekins, etc) which is well above the $2k budget with optic, or build a decent upper with a great barrel and put it on a lower with a good-great trigger.

Option 2 is the one that can keep you under $2k with an optic. I've built pretty much exactly that rifle and it's currently my only 223/556 AR.

Here's the parts list:
Aero Precision reciever set
pieced together LPK
Geissele HSNM trigger
CTR Stock with Larue RISR on it
18" Rainier Ultra Match 223 wylde intermediate gas barrel. - could save a hundred bucks and get the same performance from a WOA barrel of similar config.
15" Troy Alpha rail
SJC Titan Brake
Topped with a 2.5-10X40 Vortex Viper PST in a Burris PEPR

Now you can shave a few bucks here and there by shopping smart, and going with some less expensive options that don't affect accuracy ie cheaper hand guard like the nordic components units (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Nordic_Components_AR15_Handguard_Slotted_Rifle_Len _p/nc-fft-nc1-rfl.htm) or going with a Rock River NM 2 stage trigger over the Geissele, MOE stock vs the CTR, etc. Lots of ways to save some cash on it without giving up any accuracy.

Now with the rifle build listed above, I reliably shoot well past 500 yds with 75gr BTHP hand loads. For instance the last time I really stretched that rig's legs out, I was shooting a 10" square plate at 780 yds in a 25 mph cross wind, and hitting anywhere from 3-4 out of 5 on average, the first hit came on shot number 3, trying to figure the wind, all other misses were 100% either wind changes I didn't catch, or the loose nut behind the trigger. The gun is sub moa all day every day, the shooter on an AR platform, not so much hahahaha.

[nisils14]

I don't tend to swap uppers around too much. I'd just build a complete, dedicated rifle. But there are factory rifles cheaper than I can build something right now.
I'm kind of liking the Rock River A4 Varmint model in either the 18" or 20" model.
DPMS offers a good looking rifle in their TRP with a stainless 20"'barrel but I can't find any real good info on it's accuracy potential and not sue I could bring myself to spend $1K on anything DPMS builds.

Factor in another lower for 200-500 and you got your complete rifle. I feel companies will always be able to make and market rifles much cheaper then one ever could think of putting it together themselves, especially if its an apples to apples comparison. I think the benefit in DIY, is being able to spec build to your hearts desire. Picking out my favorite parts and wrenching 'em together is probably why I'll choose to build mine over than buying a factory one. That and I get a sense of satisfying my need to tinker. There's some nice bang for your buck barrels out there. White Oak Armament has a rifle 18" that has a good track record. Out of my personal observations, BCM SS410 and Rainer Match barrels have had good results. I think some companies offer a accuracy guarantee on their barrels.

[MarkCO]

.223 Wylde with a good load and a good barrel is certainly 1/2MOA capable to 500 yards.

With the prices in the basement, I would bet you can build a complete upper for no more than $1200 that will give you everything you want and be at least $500 less than a factory built rifle. My Kreiger shot under 1/3MOA out to 600 yards and I built that upper complete for what would have been about $1k retail. If you need help putting one together, let me know. :)

[MarkCO]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1380099798959678&set=o.495735763781812&type=1&theater

Mossberg MVP with a supressor and optic only about $1200, the 6.5PCC all told is just at $2K.

[XC700116]

A2 Stock and Buffer Assembly (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Standard_A2_Buttstock_Kit_p/rra-ar0074k.htm) - $63.95
LPK - No trigger - $34.95 (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/JBO_Lower_Receiver_Parts_Kit_WITHOUT_Trigger_Parts _p/jb-lpk-ltg.htm)
RRA 2 stage NM trigger (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/RRA_Two_Stage_Match_Trigger_Kit_AR0093NMK_p/rra-ar0093nmk.htm)- $94.95
Anderson Lower (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Anderson_Arms_AR15_Lower_Receiver_Closed_Trigger_G _p/ander-lower-closed-blem.htm) - $44.95 + $25 transfer fee to your local ffl
Anderson upper (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Anderson_Arms_AR15_Stripped_Upper_Receiver_p/ander-upper.htm) - $44.95
WOA 18" rifle gas wylde chambered barrel (http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/ar-15-m16-223-wylde-match-barrels-prod54526.aspx?avs|Make_3=AR-15/M4&avs|Cartridge_1=AJO_223%20Wylde&avs|Length_1=18&avs|Gas%20System%20Length_1=Rifle)- $269.99
Fail Zero Nib-X BCG (https://www.primaryarms.com/Fail_Zero_AR_15_Basic_EXO_Coated_Bolt_Carrier_Grou _p/fz-03493.htm?CartID=1) - $129.99
BCM Charging Handle (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/BCM_Charging_Handle_Mod_3_Large_Latch_Black_5_p/bcm-gfh-mod3-556.htm) - $44.95
Nordic Rifle Handgaurd (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Nordic_Components_AR15_Handguard_Slotted_Rifle_Len _p/nc-fft-nc1-rfl.htm)- $89.95
Gas Block (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/JBO_Low_Profile_Gas_Block_750_Black_p/jb-gb-750.htm)- $19.95
Gas Tube (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Kies_Rifle_Length_Black_Melonite_Gas_Tubes_p/kies-riflegastube.htm) - $14.95
Nordic Corvette Comp (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/product_p/nc-cmp-nc-cc-ss.htm) - $47.95
Aero Precision Scope Mount (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Aero_Precision_Ultralight_30MM_Extended_Scope_Moun _p/aero-apar210500.htm)- $79.95
Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10X44 (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Vortex_Viper_PST_2_5_10x44_Riflescope_with_EBR_1_M _p/v-pst-210s1-m.htm) - $599.99

Grand total $1606.42 + whatever Brownells charges for shipping on the barrel, all the other stuff would get free shipping from Joe bob's and Primary arms. And everything is in stock right now. With propper assembly, I'll bet $100 it will shoot as well or better than that Rock River A4 Varmint (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Rock_River_Arms_Varmint_Rifle_20_Stainless_Steel_p/rra-ar1520.htm) that would be $1149.95 plus the same $599.99 optic and $79.99 mount for a total of $1829.93.

[XC700116]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1380099798959678&set=o.495735763781812&type=1&theater

Mossberg MVP with a supressor and optic only about $1200, the 6.5PCC all told is just at $2K.


Also a pretty damn good option

[mcantar18c]

I've been wanting to build a stubby .308 bolt gun with a can for a while... I think it's next on the list.
In the logic of the interwebz, you should build one because I think it would be cool.

http://i.imgur.com/9sBkXr4.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll138/charliehorse794/ShortbarreledAICS.jpg

[MarkCO]

Anderson upper (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Anderson_Arms_AR15_Stripped_Upper_Receiver_p/ander-upper.htm) - $44.95
WOA 18" rifle gas wylde chambered barrel (http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/ar-15-m16-223-wylde-match-barrels-prod54526.aspx?avs|Make_3=AR-15/M4&avs|Cartridge_1=AJO_223%20Wylde&avs|Length_1=18&avs|Gas%20System%20Length_1=Rifle)- $269.99
Fail Zero Nib-X BCG (https://www.primaryarms.com/Fail_Zero_AR_15_Basic_EXO_Coated_Bolt_Carrier_Grou _p/fz-03493.htm?CartID=1) - $129.99
BCM Charging Handle (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/BCM_Charging_Handle_Mod_3_Large_Latch_Black_5_p/bcm-gfh-mod3-556.htm) - $44.95
Nordic Rifle Handgaurd (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Nordic_Components_AR15_Handguard_Slotted_Rifle_Len _p/nc-fft-nc1-rfl.htm)- $89.95
Gas Block (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/JBO_Low_Profile_Gas_Block_750_Black_p/jb-gb-750.htm)- $19.95
Gas Tube (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Kies_Rifle_Length_Black_Melonite_Gas_Tubes_p/kies-riflegastube.htm) - $14.95
Nordic Corvette Comp (http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/product_p/nc-cmp-nc-cc-ss.htm) - $47.95

That is pretty close to this: http://www.carbonarms.us/AR-15-Uppers-and-Parts/Nordic-AR-15-18-Upper.html except with a better gas system, barrel and upper receiver. We had them on sale for $700 during Christmas so if you want one, I would still match that price.

[ColoWyo]

I'm kind of liking the Rock River A4 Varmint model in either the 18" or 20" model.



I have a RRA Varmint with the 20" barrel and I can't tell you how happy I am with that gun. The thing is just stupid accurate. It will shoot groups as tight as My GAP .260. At 100 yards anyways. It's by far a sub-MOA gun. I have shot everything from 50gr to the 77gr SMK with awesome results. But mainly the 77 SMK. I've even had good luck single loading the 80gr bullets.

I really don't think you can go wrong with that RRA Varmint.

[ray1970]

Thanks for all of the advice and opinions.

Perhaps I'll just build it how I want. Pretty sure I had the rifle parts priced out about $1,300 including a good barrel, nice handguard, billet upper and lower receiver, and Geissele trigger. I'll have to look everything up again to make sure I didn't miss something. If the optics and mount put me a little over my target budget then so be it.

Of course,,a brand new Remington 700 Tactical heavy barrel would probably set me back about $600 and I could drop it in an XLR Element chassis for about another $700.

Darn it. Still too much to think about.

[nisils14]

1,300 sounds decent for a precision build. I think your choice in handguards, receivers, and barrel will vary quite a bit in price. everything else is, more or less, cut and dry. The only thing that bothered me about most .223 bolts, they come in 9 twist barrel, most say it's too slow for anything heavier than 69gr's, which is nice for extended distances out of a .223/5.56.

[Great-Kazoo]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1380099798959678&set=o.495735763781812&type=1&theater

Mossberg MVP with a supressor and optic only about $1200, the 6.5PCC all told is just at $2K.


Also a pretty damn good option

Pretty close to mark's $$ for mine (picture is basic off web) not mine, cause i don't feel like snapping a pic at this time.
ANYWAY I had burt bring the bbl from 24 down to 18" and threaded. I run an AAC M4 on it. Bushnell 6500 glass. My handloads, 55gr JSP with 2230 or x-terminator is dead on. Myself with more trigger time i have no doubt, hopefully. Outside of an aftermarket stock, the trigger is adjustable, yet good for now stock setting, Chambered for 5.56. IMO it's a sleeper for what you get , as people who fired it have said.

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.607999015395460040&pid=15.1&P=0

[XC700116]

Of course,,a brand new Remington 700 Tactical heavy barrel would probably set me back about $600 and I could drop it in an XLR Element chassis for about another $700.

Darn it. Still too much to think about.

I happen to know where there's one on the shelf $599

[ray1970]

I happen to know where there's one on the shelf $599

In 223?

[J]

DO IT!!! A 223 R700 in an XLR with a good MIL/MIL scope would be sweet. Then you can have some fun laying on the pavement while slinging lead with us at CRC.

[XC700116]

In 223?

sorry, 308

[Zach O]

If I was you, I'd buy this [Coffee]

https://www.ar-15.co/threads/144187-Savage-110-LA-6-5x284-Norma


[Beer]

[ray1970]

If I was you, I'd buy this [Coffee]

https://www.ar-15.co/threads/144187-Savage-110-LA-6-5x284-Norma


[Beer]

Lol. I saw that. Nice setup but not exactly what I was looking for. Good luck with your sale.
[Beer]

[Tim K]

Myself, I'd have a bolt gun. The BCG slamming around in an AR just makes it that much harder to spot your hits or misses.

Do a R700 in .233 or better yet, .300 BLK.

[ray1970]

Myself, I'd have a bolt gun. The BCG slamming around in an AR just makes it that much harder to spot your hits or misses.

Do a R700 in .233 or better yet, .300 BLK.

I'm not sure I'd get the accuracy out of a 300 at 500 yards that I'm looking for. I do love that caliber though. Might have to do a little research.

[MarkCO]

I was able to get 1.3 MOA at 600 yards with the TTSX in 300 BO. Took some effort. A 6 or 6.5 mm on the .223 case is easier.

[Tim K]

I forgot you were wanting to shoot to 500. I just assumed it can be done accurately. It's really the appeal of also being able to shoot subs suppressed that made me mention it. It's very quiet in a bolt gun. If .300BLK proves inaccurate at SS velocities, then I think .223 is about ideal. Cheap to shoot, and superb accuracy with the right bullet/barrel.

[ray1970]

So, now I'm leaning toward a bolt gun.

Every time I see this one it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. Anyone want to help me guess what the barrel length is on this one?

http://www.xlrindustries.com/publishImages/Element-chassis~~element38.jpg

[hurley842002]

So, now I'm leaning toward a bolt gun.

Every time I see this one it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. Anyone want to help me guess what the barrel length is on this one?

http://www.xlrindustries.com/publishImages/Element-chassis~~element38.jpg
That thing is sweet! No guesses on barrel length tho.

[Zach O]

I just put a 6.5 Creedmoor in an XLR chassis today. Looks like 26" to me. Don't ask my wife though...

[Irving]

That barrel has to be at least 45".

[ray1970]

I just put a 6.5 Creedmoor in an XLR chassis today. Looks like 26" to me. Don't ask my wife though...


That barrel has to be at least 45".

You guys are funny. [Coffee]

I'm thinking it is probably 20". Maybe 22" or 24". I'd be surprised if it were any longer than that.

[Spdu4ia]

I have that same brand (xlr) chassis and I have a 24" barrel for comparison so if say that's a 22" maybe. I don't know how you would do it under 2k with optics though...

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5610/15575932822_8455d967ec_b_d.jpg

[Zach O]

You guys are funny. [Coffee]

I'm thinking it is probably 20". Maybe 22" or 24". I'd be surprised if it were any longer than that.

True story man! I'd agree on 24"-26" at least. Don't think any less.

If your ever in the area, stop by and shot mine. Hell, we'll shoot it together cause I ain't even shot it yet!

[Zach O]

I have that same brand (xlr) chassis and I have a 24" barrel for comparison so if say that's a 22" maybe. I don't know how you would do it under 2k with optics though...

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5610/15575932822_8455d967ec_b_d.jpg


Awesome! Looks great man!

[ray1970]

I don't know how you would do it under 2k with optics though...


Brand new Remington from Bud's is $557. We'll just say $600 with the transfer for a round number.

The XLR Element chassis like the one in the picture is $595 so let's just call that $600 too.

So, I'm into the rifle for roughly $1200.

A Badger scope mount is $150 and a decent enough set of rings about $50.

So, I'm into it for about $1400 and just need a scope. And since I'm not taking this thing to battle or shooting a thousand yards with it, I bet I can find something suitable for now. Maybe one of the Vortex Viper PST scopes. I'm pretty sure they offer a 4-16x44 for under $600 brand new.

So, I think it's doable.

I can always upgrade stuff down the road if I want to.

[ray1970]

Forgot to include a couple of magazines in my pricing. Pretty sure the XLR chassis uses AI type mags. Those aren't cheap, are they?

Oh, and I'll probably just run a Harris bi-pod I have laying around for now but maybe some day down the road upgrade to an Atlas.

[ray1970]

Just checked. The AI mags for the 223 are $39 for ten rounders. That's not as bad as I thought.

[Rooskibar03]

Forgot to include a couple of magazines in my pricing. Pretty sure the XLR chassis uses AI type mags. Those aren't cheap, are they?

Oh, and I'll probably just run a Harris bi-pod I have laying around for now but maybe some day down the road upgrade to an Atlas.


Just order me one of everything you do and I'll buld one also :-)

[ray1970]

Just order me one of everything you do and I'll buld ome also :-)

I'm no math genius, but won't that kill my budget? [panic]

[Rooskibar03]

I'm no math genius, but won't that kill my budget? [panic]

yeah but only till I pay ya back. Glady pay you Tuesday for a Remington today.

[buffalobo]

yeah but only till I pay ya back. Glady pay you Tuesday for a Remington today.
[emoji106]

[Rooskibar03]

You inspired me Ray. Ordered up one of these to get started.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/tactical/centerfire-tactical/model-700-sps-tactical-aac-sd.aspx

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah253/Rooskibar03/ff727c277a7ee8db884f94a55296b703_zps4d927718.jpg

[Spdu4ia]

I started mine as a budget build too. See how well that worked out haha. I wasn't aware the other xlr chassis was cheaper so you will be doing better . If anything put your money in good glass and ammo (nothing beats trigger time).

[ray1970]

You inspired me Ray. Ordered up one of these to get started.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/tactical/centerfire-tactical/model-700-sps-tactical-aac-sd.aspx

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah253/Rooskibar03/ff727c277a7ee8db884f94a55296b703_zps4d927718.jpg

Nice. I'm still going back and forth trying to decide what I really want to do. Wish I could just make a decision and jump on board like you did.

I was doing a little research on optics. Holy cow. There's a lot out there to research. First focal plane, second focal plane, MOA/Mil, whatever MRAD is, and more reticle options than you can shake a stick at.

[Tim K]

Assuming you weren't being silly, Mil and MRAD are the same thing. Milliradians are the unit of measure, those are just two different abbreviations. You probably knew that though.

[ray1970]

Assuming you weren't being silly, Mil and MRAD are the same thing. Milliradians are the unit of measure, those are just two different abbreviations. You probably knew that though.
Honestly, I didn't know. I really haven't done all my research yet and haven't ever really been into anything to do with long range or precision shooting.

Anyone who has an opinion on what would be easiest for a newbie to learn on would be greatly appreciated. FFP or SFP? MOA or Mil? Preferred reticles?

Thanks.

[MarkCO]

Really like my AAC-SD, it is in an X-Ray chassis which really helped accuracy. Wears an Burris XTRII scope...best bang for the buck with great glass.

[XC700116]

Honestly, I didn't know. I really haven't done all my research yet and haven't ever really been into anything to do with long range or precision shooting.

Anyone who has an opinion on what would be easiest for a newbie to learn on would be greatly appreciated. FFP or SFP? MOA or Mil? Preferred reticles?

Thanks.

If you can, come down to the Pueblo field rifle match on the 17th IIRC, and take a look at the guns/gear, I'll have my LR rig there, as well as the AR I referenced earlier, along with many others. Probably the best way to get your head wraped around it is to just put your hands on some stuff and test drive some.

[TheBelly]

Remington 700 action + Criterion 'REMAGE' barrel = .3 MOA shooter ~$750.

McRees Chassis = ~$400

SWFA SS fixed 10x or 16x = $300

Rings and scope base = $150

total: ~$1550

[ray1970]

Remington 700 action + Criterion 'REMAGE' barrel = .3 MOA shooter ~$750.

McRees Chassis = ~$400

SWFA SS fixed 10x or 16x = $300

Rings and scope base = $150

total: ~$1550
Hmm. I'm not even sure where I could buy an action.

Post up a link or shoot me a PM?

[DHC]

Hmm. I'm not even sure where I could buy an action.

Post up a link or shoot me a PM?

Brownells link --> http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/actions/small-700-sa-receiver-blued-prod32498.aspx

Remmy short action in 308 for $450 (dealer price).

IHTH

[DHC]

And another reference at Brownell's - link to Shilen barrels --> http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/remington-700-barrel-prod25196.aspx?avs|Cartridge_1=CTT_308%20Wincheste r&psize=96

Looks like their price for a 26" SS match grade barrel (# 7 contour) is a bit less than $340.

Just FYI

[XC700116]

Hmm. I'm not even sure where I could buy an action.

Post up a link or shoot me a PM?

Buy a complete rifle from Walmart, then part it out, it's much cheaper.

For instance, I just bought a 700 ADL scoped rifle package from Walmart on Black Friday. Reg price $379.00, then additional 20% off for Black Friday, and a $35 rebate from Remington had it down to $265+tax and BGC fee.

Then I sold the scope, stock, and trigger on ebay, and I'm down to under $200 into the action now, and when it goes to the smith, I'll sell the barrel too and should be into the bare action for less than $150.

Granted you're not going to get the 20% off and probably not the $35 rebate right now. But you could still get it down to sub $250 for your action by doing this.

[ray1970]

Buy a complete rifle from Walmart, then part it out, it's much cheaper.

For instance, I just bought a 700 ADL scoped rifle package from Walmart on Black Friday. Reg price $379.00, then additional 20% off for Black Friday, and a $35 rebate from Remington had it down to $265+tax and BGC fee.

Then I sold the scope, stock, and trigger on ebay, and I'm down to under $200 into the action now, and when it goes to the smith, I'll sell the barrel too and should be into the bare action for less than $150.

Granted you're not going to get the 20% off and probably not the $35 rebate right now. But you could still get it down to sub $250 for your action by doing this.
Thanks. I hadn't thought about that. Might have to see how cheap a base model is.

[00tec]

Ray, you're welcome to come out and play with my R700 varmint .223. 26" heavy barrel, 6-18 Redfield on it. Choate stock puts it right at eleventy-billion pounds, so no recoil.

There's an almost identical 308 there too that I'm sure you could try. Same stock really knocks down the kick.

Matter of fact, you may have seen both before...

[TheBelly]

Hmm. I'm not even sure where I could buy an action.

Post up a link or shoot me a PM?


Walmart. Get an SPS/ADL rifle for $379+tax. Get it in a short action caliber.

[TheBelly]

And another reference at Brownell's - link to Shilen barrels --> http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/remington-700-barrel-prod25196.aspx?avs|Cartridge_1=CTT_308%20Wincheste r&psize=96

Looks like their price for a 26" SS match grade barrel (# 7 contour) is a bit less than $340.

Just FYI

the reason I suggest criterion barrels is that they don't require a gunsmith to get them installed and chambered correctly. I did mine in my basement with a savage barrel nut, dead blow hammer, and a set of go/no-go gauges.

[ray1970]

the reason I suggest criterion barrels is that they don't require a gunsmith to get them installed and chambered correctly. I did mine in my basement with a savage barrel nut, dead blow hammer, and a set of go/no-go gauges.
I live about three miles from Bert so it wouldn't be terribly inconvenient or expensive to have a barrel installed and chambered.

[TheBelly]

I live about three miles from Bert so it wouldn't be terribly inconvenient or expensive to have a barrel installed and chambered.

I can't disagree with that. It's also nice to put business in the hands of locally owned businesses.

I'd suggest looking at a barrel blank from bugholes.com , then.

[ray1970]

Still researching stuff. But now I'm even more undecided. Started looking at bolt rifles in 260 and 6.5 Creedmoor.

Way too much cool stuff out there that would fit my needs.

I think I did narrow down my optics choices though. Probably go with something in first focal plane with a mil-type reticle and mil adjustments.

[Fentonite]

I like where you're going. I have a .260, and am sold on FFP mil/mil scopes, makes the math much easier for my brain. You're welcome to test drive the rig anytime. The only downside (for me, since I don't reload yet) is that .260 match ammo is hard to come by.

[ray1970]

Thanks for the offer, Jeff. [Beer]

I'm already rethinking the 260 though. Not only would I have the investment of the rifle, optics, etc. but I'd also have to round up dies and components to load for it as well. The 223/5.56 guns make more since because I already have everything I need to get loading right away.

This must be what it feels like to be a woman. Not being able to make up my mind and all.
[Coffee]

[Rooskibar03]

Come one Ray, what's taking you so long. My rifle came today. Vortex Viper 6 24x50 due next week and the XLR is 4/5 weeks out.

[Hoser]

I'm already rethinking the 260 though. Not only would I have the investment of the rifle, optics, etc. but I'd also have to round up dies and components to load for it as well. The 223/5.56 guns make more since because I already have everything I need to get loading right away.

A 223 bolt gun is cool (I have a Bighorn Action 223 Ackley/300 Whisper switch barrel) and very fun to shoot, but past a few hundred yards the low BC of the 75 and 80 gn bullets start to suck.

A 6mm or 6.5 mm something is much more enjoyable to shoot, low recoil with high BC bullets.

[XC700116]

A 223 bolt gun is cool (I have a Bighorn Action 223 Ackley/300 Whisper switch barrel) and very fun to shoot, but past a few hundred yards the low BC of the 75 and 80 gn bullets start to suck.

A 6mm or 6.5 mm something is much more enjoyable to shoot, low recoil with high BC bullets.


^^^ this, it also opens up a whole new world of shooting, an expensive one, but by far one of the most challenging and rewarding ones too IMHO.

[ray1970]

Hmm. A 6.5 Grendel might be an option I need to look into.

[smchop]

I love my 6mm, just got a 6mm creed for my DTA. You don't have to run barrel burners

[ray1970]

I love my 6mm, just got a 6mm creed for my DTA. You don't have to run barrel burners
At the rate I shoot these days, even one of the barrel burners should last me about ten years before I need to rebarrel.

[MarkCO]

If you are looking at a 6 or 6.5 in an AR15, I'd stick with a barrel swap only caliber. Love my 6.5PCC!

[Spdu4ia]

At the rate I shoot these days, even one of the barrel burners should last me about ten years before I need to rebarrel.

If you wanting to get into precision shooting your gonna have to put a lot of rounds through it . I didn't used to shoot a lot but when I got my bolt gun I've put over 1k rounds through it just this winter.

[ray1970]

If you wanting to get into precision shooting your gonna gave to put a lot of rounds through it . I didn't used to shoot a lot but when I got my bolt gun I've put over 1k rounds through it just this winter.

Between a job working ten or more hours a day with frequent out of town trips and normal family stuff, I just don't have time to get out as much as I'd like to. I'm doing good to make it to the range once every couple of months.

[Zach O]

Between a job working ten or more hours a day with frequent out of town trips and normal family stuff, I just don't have time to get out as much as I'd like to. I'm doing good to make it to the range once every couple of months.

You'll find time! I took out my 16 year old nephew over Christmas and he had a first round hit at 1,000 yards. He looked at his dad and asked for rifle! Once you are able make first round hits at XXX yards, you just want more and more! Its like a drug!

[ray1970]

Come one Ray, what's taking you so long. My rifle came today. Vortex Viper 6 24x50 due next week and the XLR is 4/5 weeks out.
Picked up my XLR today.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/13/856f64a11c0c771c03ab49ebf682d415.jpg

[cstone]

I am green with envy. [Wink]

[Zach O]

Picked up my XLR today.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/13/856f64a11c0c771c03ab49ebf682d415.jpg

Yeah buddy! Congrats!!

[Hoser]

Cool man. Very cool.

[ray1970]

Now I'm hoping Magpul comes out with those AICS type magazines. The real ones are kind of pricey.

[ray1970]

Cool man. Very cool.
Thanks. Maybe one day I'll make it out to one of the matches and you can put me to shame.
[Awesom]

[TheBelly]

Approved.

[Hoser]

Thanks. Maybe one day I'll make it out to one of the matches and you can put me to shame.


I get beat by girls all the time. In fact today was a fine day to get shown up by a girl.

[muddywings]

Now I'm hoping Magpul comes out with those AICS type magazines. The real ones are kind of pricey.

I suspect you've seen this below but I'll post it here:

http://www.kipstaton.com/new-blog-1/2015/1/12/magpul-zeroes-in-on-precision-rifle-market-with-hunter-700-stock-system

"Yup. It feeds from PMAGs. New, AICS compatible PMAGs. The PMAG5 7.62 AC is a fully-featured polymer magazine, with an anti-tilt follower and MSRP of $34.95. Interestingly, the magazine holds 5 rounds to comply with hunting regulations, but the follower features a trimmable, pre-scored stop that allows users to increase capacity by a single round for other purposes."

"Magpul promises that this is just the beginning for their precision rifle accessory line, hinting at a larger-capacity PMAG10 7.62 AC in the future, as well as other calibers. Anybody running AICS pattern mags (and that's quite a few serious precision rifle guys) should be absolutely stoked about these new developments."

[Rooskibar03]

Picked up my XLR today.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/13/856f64a11c0c771c03ab49ebf682d415.jpg


Damn. How'd you pull that off so quick?



On the upside UPS man just dropped this off.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah253/Rooskibar03/DADBC41F-BAB6-4514-9FBB-AD44A1A25916_zpsfsj0acem.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/Rooskibar03/media/DADBC41F-BAB6-4514-9FBB-AD44A1A25916_zpsfsj0acem.jpg.html)

[Spdu4ia]

Very nice

[02ducky]

Did I miss the caliber you are going with Ray?

[ray1970]

Damn. How'd you pull that off so quick?

Skipped the manufacturer and found a place in Grand Junction that had them in stock. I was going to call them and have it shipped when I found out I had to go to Utah for work. I just swung by their shop on my way and picked it up.

And, since I know you are curious, it was priced at $595.


Did I miss the caliber you are going with Ray?

Nope. I hadn't made an official announcement yet.

Going with 308. Hoping the weight of the completed setup combined with the pistol grip style stock and some sort of muzzle brake will tame it enough so it will be gentle on my shoulder.

I figure it should be plenty good for paper and steel out to 500 yards ish and if I get a wild hair and want to go twice that distance then it will at least be doable.

[TheBelly]

Skipped the manufacturer and found a place in Grand Junction that had them in stock. I was going to call them and have it shipped when I found out I had to go to Utah for work. I just swung by their shop on my way and picked it up.

And, since I know you are curious, it was priced at $595.



Nope. I hadn't made an official announcement yet.

Going with 308. Hoping the weight of the completed setup combined with the pistol grip style stock and some sort of muzzle brake will tame it enough so it will be gentle on my shoulder.

I figure it should be plenty good for paper and steel out to 500 yards ish and if I get a wild hair and want to go twice that distance then it will at least be doable.


what model scope is that?

[Rooskibar03]

what model scope is that?


Vortex Viper PST 6 - 24x50.

[Fentonite]

You're overlooking the obvious advantage of the 260... Which is that you could load for me!
[LOL]

[Spdu4ia]

Mine is .308 and yea it's very easy on the shoulder with the weight . I also push it past 1k no problem. You'll have tons of fun for sure

[ray1970]

I see Nightforce if offering a scope for just under $1,000. Doesn't seem like they have a model with the .1 mil adjustment though. Looks like they are 1/4 MOA. Might still be leaning towards the Vortex I guess.

[XC700116]

Here is a Burris XTRII 5-25 for sale in the trading post for a very reasonable price that would do well for you. Might be worth your consideration.

https://www.ar-15.co/threads/141859-Burris-XTR-II-5-25-scope-AICS-Chassis-for-Rem-700

[J]

Any NF at that price will be SFP too.

They don't make many FFP scopes. Just the new beast at over $3k, and the F1 at $2000 or so for a 3.5-15x.

The XTR II is another great option along with vortex too.

[ray1970]

It will probably take me months to decide on a scope. Lol.

The only good thing is the longer it takes me to decide the bigger my budget will get.

The bad thing is the bigger my budget the more options I will have. [facepalm]

[Circuits]

The bad thing is the bigger my budget the more options I will have. [facepalm]
Ah.... first world problems.

[Flower]

[ray1970]

Ah.... first world problems.

[Flower]

Lol. We definitely live in a first world country.

I bet the amount of food thrown away in our country every single day is enough to end world hunger. People starving in other countries and we are tossing stuff because it's two days past the "expiration date".

[Spdu4ia]

The vortex is a great option even with a large budget .

[ray1970]

Sheesh. I thought deciding on the rifle was tough. At least I had that narrowed down to a handful of options. There must be about twenty thousand scopes out there to weed through.

[Delfuego]

There must be about twenty thousand scopes out there to weed through.I would look for MIL/MIL & First Focal Plane (FFP). Then figure out your budget, that should narrow it down to a handful. You should hit-up people to see them in person to get an idea of what you like. SWFA, PST, XTR II are some good options to begin with. Err on the side of more than you think you need...

[Spdu4ia]

Good advice

[ray1970]

I'm not even 100% sure about the FFP part yet. I can definitely see the advantages but having the reticle large at higher magnification and smaller at lower magnification may not be exactly what I want. Seems it would obscure smaller targets at longer ranges. But everyone that has one seems to love it.

[J]

Yeah, never found mine to be intrusive, even out to 1400 meters. And the ability to spot misses and make adjustments at any magnification is super nice to have.

[Hoser]

FFP is the way to go for sure.

However the whole MIL/MOA issue is almost silly. As long as your reticle matches your turret click values it really does not matter. Most everyone talks about wind values in 10mph. Half value wind is 5, full=10, double=20, ect.

I use MIL as it is easier for my brain to wrap around.

[J]

Yep. I'd base your MOA/MIL decision on what the people you will shoot with use. It's nice to be able to have a buddy spot for you and give you direct corrections without having to convert one system to another. On their own they both fundamentally do the same thing, and there really isn't much difference using them in practice

[XC700116]

I'm not even 100% sure about the FFP part yet. I can definitely see the advantages but having the reticle large at higher magnification and smaller at lower magnification may not be exactly what I want. Seems it would obscure smaller targets at longer ranges. But everyone that has one seems to love it.


If you ever think you'll need to be shooting on less than full power, go FFP so you don't have yet another math problem to sort through in your mind. The FFP reticles are sized the same as a sfp reticle at the highest magnification, so in reality what you see at full magnification is what you see through the full range of magnification on a SFP scope.

[Rooskibar03]

Jumping in on Rays thread some but there are eyes here and it beats starting a new thread.

Talk to me about scope rings. What in the world makes one pair worth 150-200 and another 20-40? I'm a firm believer in buy once cry once but is a set of Nightforce rings going to make that much of a difference?

[J]

Lol. I run Spuhr, so that's another jump too. The big thing for me I knowing that everything else is bullet proof, and if it starts shooting bad it's either too dirty or I'm screwing up. I don't want to have to track down potential problems of slipping rings, etc. The higher end rings will be more guaranteed to be concentric, and not have point contact to the scope, but full width contact around the entire circumference.

Plus the spuhr has several nice to have features too.

[Rooskibar03]

Lol. I run Spuhr, so that's anoanother jump too.

Oh my. I don't know if I can cry THAT much.

[ray1970]

Starting to come together slowly. I'll probably get a LaRue 20 MOA picatinny base ordered for it shortly.

When I picked up the XLR chassis the other day, I also went ahead and picked up the action. Got both of them from Red Hawk Rifles in Grand Junction. It's just the standard AAC-SD model in 308 with the 20" threaded barrel but they go through it and do some things to it. Bolt lugs are lapped, firing pin and feed ramp are polished, trigger is "tuned", and maybe a couple of other minor things. I can't remember.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/16/b88c26622b38a016ad659d5ddd13be64.jpg

[Rooskibar03]

Damn Ray, looks good.

[Spdu4ia]

But once cry once, however, buy something you don't need and cry over and over. Ffp seems to be the best but if your are only going to shoot at highest power sfp would be fine.

Yes there are rings for $20 and rings for $200 it's more about decreasing the variables in precision shooting. The least amount of play and ability to not second guessing your equipment and you'll have an easier time in the long run. Something I learned by trying to cut a few corners and ended up pulling my hair out trying to chase down inconsistencys.

So you probably don't NEED $200 rings but when your grouping starts opening up that's one less place you have to look.

[Irving]

Sheesh. I thought deciding on the rifle was tough. At least I had that narrowed down to a handful of options. There must be about twenty thousand scopes out there to weed through.

Go ahead and rule out Tasco and Simmons right now. Hope that helps.

[ray1970]

Go ahead and rule out Tasco and Simmons right now. Hope that helps.
So... what you're saying is I can still look into stuff from Barska and BSA?

[Irving]

Sorry, just mentioning Tasco and Simmons pretty much exhausts my knowledge of scopes.

[TheBelly]

So... what you're saying is I can still look into stuff from Barska and BSA?

Ray's list wasn't all inclusive.....

[ray1970]

I also need thoughts and opinions about what to do with the muzzle end of this thing. I know the real answer is to stick a suppressor on it but that just isn't going to happen right away. So, in the mean time, I have three options. Nothing, a flash hider, or some sort of brake.

I'd like to put something on it partly for looks and partly to have a little protection for the crown. So I'm probably going to rule out not putting anything on it.

Having some shoulder issues, a good brake would be nice. But, I do have plans to possibly compete with the rifle at some point and really don't want to blast my fellow competitors with the concussion from a break.

Kind of of makes me lean towards a flash hider maybe.

What at would be nice is a brake that I can run when I am shooting by myself with some sort of screw on piece I could toss over it when I compete. Assuming it doesn't throw off my POI too much.

Thoughts?

[Skully]

Starting to come together slowly. I'll probably get a LaRue 20 MOA picatinny base ordered for it shortly.

When I picked up the XLR chassis the other day, I also went ahead and picked up the action. Got both of them from Red Hawk Rifles in Grand Junction. It's just the standard AAC-SD model in 308 with the 20" threaded barrel but they go through it and do some things to it. Bolt lugs are lapped, firing pin and feed ramp are polished, trigger is "tuned", and maybe a couple of other minor things. I can't remember.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/16/b88c26622b38a016ad659d5ddd13be64.jpg

Looks awesome Ray!

[Beer]

[Spdu4ia]

Brake for sure. Get a threaded brake for later when you put a suppressor on.

https://thunderbeastarms.com/products/accessories

[XC700116]

I also need thoughts and opinions about what to do with the muzzle end of this thing. I know the real answer is to stick a suppressor on it but that just isn't going to happen right away. So, in the mean time, I have three options. Nothing, a flash hider, or some sort of brake.

I'd like to put something on it partly for looks and partly to have a little protection for the crown. So I'm probably going to rule out not putting anything on it.

Having some shoulder issues, a good brake would be nice. But, I do have plans to possibly compete with the rifle at some point and really don't want to blast my fellow competitors with the concussion from a break.

Kind of of makes me lean towards a flash hider maybe.

What at would be nice is a brake that I can run when I am shooting by myself with some sort of screw on piece I could toss over it when I compete. Assuming it doesn't throw off my POI too much.

Thoughts?

Put a brake on it, don't worry about other competitors, they're used to it, we all are, sure it's nice when everyone is running cans but it's a pretty rare occurrence. It's actually more rare that they aren't running anything than it is to be running either a brake or a suppressor.

[ray1970]

Put a brake on it, don't worry about other competitors, they're used to it, we all are, sure it's nice when everyone is running cans but it's a pretty rare occurrence. It's actually more rare that they aren't running anything than it is to be running either a brake or a suppressor.

Thanks. I just didn't want to be "that guy".

Now to look through the hundreds of brakes on the market and figure something out. I could get the AAC 51T brake since I have ambitions to some day own an SDN-6. Or, I could get a more effective brake until that day comes and just get one after I have the can.

[Spdu4ia]

Yea I run a brake (waiting for a can here soon). It's a gun, it's loud, and things fly out of the end, that's part of it . I've shot a few matchs were im the only one in my group without a suppressor.

[TheBelly]

Thanks. I just didn't want to be "that guy".

Now to look through the hundreds of brakes on the market and figure something out. I could get the AAC 51T brake since I have ambitions to some day own an SDN-6. Or, I could get a more effective brake until that day comes and just get one after I have the can.


i just got the surefire pro comp brake ($55). its very effective. it currently sits on a LaRue PredatAR 7.62.

an effective brake doesn't have to cost $130.

the guns that i run a brake on, i don't suppress. my suppressors are all thread on. i have yet to run into the problem of needing a 'qd' feature on a can.

[ray1970]

I actually looked at the Surefire Procomp brake. Seems great for the money. Just not much info out there online about them yet. While I understand function is most important, I don't want it to look goofy on the end of the barrel either. The barrel is .860" right behind the threads. I couldn't find any physical dimensions for the Procomp 762 anywhere. I'm curious about the outside diameter. Both the overall diameter and whatever the diameter is at the back end where it buts up to the barrel - looks like it has a slight taper near the barrel end.

[Zach O]

Talk to Skullybones. His shop Is Dynamic Resistance in up here in Divide. His breaks are awesome. They look great to! But they function just as well. He made one for my 6.5x284 Norma. Before I couldn't spot my missed to save my soul. After the break, I could spot them all, including watching hole appear at 100 yards to catch a zero. It also cut the recoil dramatically. Plus it keeps money in our local shooting community.

[XC700116]

Talk to Skullybones. His shop Is Dynamic Resistance in up here in Divide. His breaks are awesome. They look great to! But they function just as well. He made one for my 6.5x284 Norma. Before I couldn't spot my missed to save my soul. After the break, I could spot them all, including watching hole appear at 100 yards to catch a zero. It also cut the recoil dramatically. Plus it keeps money in our local shooting community.

This is a real good suggestion, as I know he'll tweak things a bit to make it work best for your application, for instance if you plan to suppress it in the future, and you want to make sure to retain suppressor friendly threads and shoulder.

[smchop]

Thanks. I just didn't want to be "that guy".

Now to look through the hundreds of brakes on the market and figure something out. I could get the AAC 51T brake since I have ambitions to some day own an SDN-6. Or, I could get a more effective brake until that day comes and just get one after I have the can.

I've been that guy Ray, at one match right after I got my AI AE Covert with the can still in jail at my dealer, I was put in between two guys shooting long barrel fully suppressed 6mm's and I sit right between them with a 16" .308 with a side venting brake. Now, they were very polite and good guys, but I know I was "that guy"! Everyone took it in stride and soon we were all making jokes and having fun with it. Great community at the matches!

[ray1970]

OK. Quick update in case anyone cares.

Decided I'm going to camo this thing out. Just have to decide if I want to rattle can it or have it cerakoted.

Decided the the grip is too large for my liking. Fortunately, a lot of AR type grips will work so finding another one should be easy.

Didn't want to spend forever deciding on a muzzle brake so I found one I liked and just ordered the darn thing. Silencerco Specwar Trifecta. I like the looks of the AAC brake and the Surefire ones but this one had three ports instead of two, looks very similar to the AAC and Surefire, and was half the cost. When I do get around to finally getting a can it probably won't be the Specwar. I'll decide on the suppressor I want and get the appropriate muzzle device for it then.

[02ducky]

Wow Ray, great looking rifle you have there so far, looks amazing.

[Spdu4ia]

Cerakoted mine and it's supper durrable but if your gonna camo it I would just rattle can it (easy touch up). Careful when you put the new grip on that bolt likes to crossthread.