Big muslim terrorist massacre in Paris

[Singlestack]

http://clashdaily.com/2015/01/muslims-slaughter-12-paris-revenge-attack-mohammed-cartoons/

Posted on January 7, 2015
Over a frickin’ cartoon? The Religion of the Touchy. Lock-n-Load, folks.

Twelve people were killed today when gunmen carried out a ‘massacre’ at the offices of a notoriously anti-Islamist magazine in Paris – including a police officer who was executed as he begged for mercy on the pavement.
Two masked attackers brandishing Kalashnikovs burst into the Charlie Hebdo headquarters, opening fire on staff after seeking out journalists by name.
Those executed also included four of the most famous cartoonists in France – men who had regularly satirised Islam and the Prophet Mohammed – along with the magazine’s editor-in-chief, Stephane Charbonnier.

The killers were heard to shout ‘the Prophet has been avenged’ and ‘Allahu akbar!’ as stalked the building.
Horrific footage also emerged showing an injured police officer slumped on the pavement outside the office as the two gunmen approach.
In an apparent desperate plea for his life, the officer is seen slowly raising his hand towards one of the attackers, who responds by callously shooting him in the head at point-blank range.



Despite a shoot-out with armed officers, the ‘calm and highly disciplined’ men who reportedly spoke perfect French were able to escape in a hijacked car and remain on the loose.
By midday, there were reports of up to 12 people dead and 10 wounded, four critically, including journalists, administrative staff, and police officers who attended the scene.
President Francois Hollande described the bloodbath as a ‘barbaric attack against France and against journalists’ and vowed to hunt down those responsible.
As well as the AK47 assault rifles, there were also reports of a rocket-propelled grenade being used in the attack, which took place during the publication’s weekly editorial meeting, meaning all the journalists would have been present.

I heard one account say the 2 policemen who were executed were unarmed. Need to verify that. However, the French population is unarmed and unable to defend themselves from any terrorist attack, especially a competently conducted attack like this. Another massacre in a gun free zone...

[buffalobo]

This is second thread on this topic. First one didn't even make it 15 posts.

Keep it clean and civil.

[Bitter Clinger]

Repost but I have no idea where the other thread is. Seems to be missing.....

[Bitter Clinger]

Hope it wasn't my post about the civilized world

[SuperiorDG]

How does one get a RPG into Paris?

[ruthabagah]

How does one get a RPG into Paris?

Sold in Bosnia.... AK used to be about 500 Euro a couple of years ago. Then arrange delivery through Roms / gypsies.

[Ridge]

Hope it wasn't my post about the civilized world

I'm sure it was regarding my exchange with HBARleatherneck

[Bitter Clinger]

How does one get a RPG into Paris?

Same way those heathens get anything....black market.

[Eric P]

Hopefully this opens a few eyes in Europe to the dangers of open boarders

[Singlestack]

I didn't realize this was a repost - couldn't see any threads mentioning this? Why was the first thread deleted?

[cstone]

Hopefully this opens a few eyes in Europe to the dangers of open boarders

I believe Europeans have been dealing with these issues for some time.

http://news.sky.com/story/1402805/german-anti-islam-rally-hits-record-number

[cstone]

I didn't realize this was a repost - couldn't see any threads mentioning this? Why was the first thread deleted?

Because the discourse was not civil.

[buffalobo]

Edit - cstone said it better.

[sniper7]

Question is whether this will shut the media about and limit all things concerning Islam or if it will push them to go totally anti-islam across the board. I vote for the later.

[Bitter Clinger]

It's time to wake up. A full world wide campaign against islam, like we did with the nazi's, is the only solution.

[Ridge]

The media won't go anti Islam because of the threat of something like this. More importantly, our media won't care because it happened in France, not the US. They'll say it was Muslim terrorists.

[roberth]

I believe Europeans have been dealing with these issues for some time.

http://news.sky.com/story/1402805/german-anti-islam-rally-hits-record-number

I've been reading similiar stories out of Europe for years, they really have a problem over there. It is just beginning here.

[cstone]

Does anyone remember the French summer of discontent a few years ago? Major riots in most large cities, especially southern France.

I predict that these types of incidents will continue. It is hard to see how anyone can come to a compromise when extremism is driving the violence.

All or nothing strategies carried to their ends will normally result in nothing for everyone.

[cstone]

It's time to wake up. A full world wide campaign against islam, like we did with the nazi's, is the only solution.

What would that look like and who would lead such a campaign? What would be the end goal?

[buffalobo]

Wonder if any of the surviving victims would like to be armed in the future?

Are police in France armed similar to here in U.S. or do they need permission to strap on firearm after tragedy has already happened?

[KestrelBike]

Wonder if any of the surviving victims would like to be armed in the future?

Are police in France armed similar to here in U.S. or do they need permission to strap on firearm after tragedy.

I thought they had a mix of both armed & unarmed. I do remember that in high profile areas, Vigipirate ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigipirate ) is pretty visible. However, only the sergeant or whatever had a mag inserted in his rifle, round not chambered. Wouldn't take a genius to figure out who to ambush first.

[ruthabagah]

Wonder if any of the surviving victims would like to be armed in the future?

Are police in France armed similar to here in U.S. or do they need permission to strap on firearm after tragedy has already happened?

They are armed. Sig P2022 as sidearm, MP5 or FAMAS G2 (soon to be replaced) as needed.

[buffalobo]

They are armed. Sig P2022 as sidearm, MP5 or FAMAS G2 (soon to be replaced) as needed.
Posted article made me wonder. It said couple executed officers were unarmed. Why would they give up weapons?

[68Charger]

What "needs to happen" is that people wake up that we're in a world at war... Evil is present and can strike at any time.

If it wasn't Islam, it would be something else- all you can do is prepare for evil to strike, and meet it with swift and complete justice when it does.

[Bitter Clinger]

What would that look like and who would lead such a campaign? What would be the end goal?

It would take all of the CIVILIZED people of the world, police/gov agency's shutting down mosks/training facility's. With deadly force if there is any resistance. Our military, the brits, aussies, and any other country with a strong military, take the fight to them. NO ROE's we know who they are, go in and flat out annihilate them on their home turf. Leave no one breathing.

All I'm saying is it is time for the world to take the gloves off, stop playing nice. Do what we need to do. These heathens will NOT negotiate, there will be no peace in their eyes until the rest of the world is converted or dead, I say we make them dead before they make us dead.

[68Charger]

They are armed. Sig P2022 as sidearm, MP5 or FAMAS G2 (soon to be replaced) as needed.


Posted article made me wonder. It said couple executed officers were unarmed. Why would they give up weapons?

Found this, but I have no personal experience: http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/07/unarmed-paris-police-retreated-from-terrorist-gunmen-video/

[68Charger]

It would take all of the CIVILIZED people of the world, police/gov agency's shutting down mosks/training facility's. With deadly force if there is any resistance. Our military, the brits, aussies, and any other country with a strong military, take the fight to them. NO ROE's we know who they are, go in and flat out annihilate them on their home turf. Leave no one breathing.

All I'm saying is it is time for the world to take the gloves off, stop playing nice. Do what we need to do. These heathens will NOT negotiate, there will be no peace in their eyes until the rest of the world is converted or dead, I say we make them dead before they make us dead.

The problem with this is that you've now given the gov't the power and ability to strike with impunity citizens that have not yet attacked anyone.
Once they have that power, they will not give it up- and you can then replace "Islamic extremists" as a target with whatever target they wish.

”Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” -Ben Franklin

If you have actionable intel that a group is planning something (and you have enough evidence to convict them of something), then by all means go after them.
Beyond that, good security is your best defense... you cannot depend upon unarmed bicycle cops to defend you.

[cstone]

It would take all of the CIVILIZED people of the world, police/gov agency's shutting down mosks/training facility's. With deadly force if there is any resistance. Our military, the brits, aussies, and any other country with a strong military, take the fight to them. NO ROE's we know who they are, go in and flat out annihilate them on their home turf. Leave no one breathing.

All I'm saying is it is time for the world to take the gloves off, stop playing nice. Do what we need to do. These heathens will NOT negotiate, there will be no peace in their eyes until the rest of the world is converted or dead, I say we make them dead before they make us dead.

I don't believe the response you provided would meet the definition of civilized.

If it takes evil acts to fight evil people, then who is good?

[Bitter Clinger]

If you have actionable intel that a group is planning something (and you have enough evidence to convict them of something), then by all means go after them.
Beyond that, good security is your best defense... you cannot depend upon unarmed bicycle cops to defend yoT

That is EXACTLY what I am trying to say, we know who they are, and where they are. Do you know there are several "training camps" in the U.S.? Even here in colorful Colorado....

[cstone]

I am pretty confident that when the US military has "actionable intelligence" and appropriate force can be applied, we do so.

If you have information about criminal activity in Colorado, please contact the FBI and/or local law enforcement.

There are people watching and listening as we type. [Flower]

Be safe.

[Bitter Clinger]

I don't believe the response you provided would meet the definition of civilized.

If it takes evil acts to fight evil people, then who is good?

It's not evil to kill evil people.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph is for enough good men to do nothing.

Once again, these people are known. The Governments of the world know who they are, know they want to murder decent people, why not kill them first?

[roberth]

First of all Islam is NOT a religion but it does have religious aspects. It is a complete government of its own and it is entirely in opposition to the Constitution of The United States. There is no Bill of Rights in Islam unless you are already a muslim, there is no "equal protection under the law". There is only "submit or die".

[cstone]

It's not evil to kill evil people.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph is for enough good men to do nothing.

Once again, these people are known. The Governments of the world know who they are, know they want to murder decent people, why not kill them first?

I do not believe the governments of the world know who ALL of the evil people are. Sometimes if you watch a few evil people, they will lead you to even more evil people. Religious faith does not make a person evil. The actions you take determines whether a person is evil. What is in a man's head and heart determine whether the man is evil. This cannot be known by anyone other than the man and God.

It is frustrating being reactionary. It is one of the disadvantages of being good, IMO.

[Bitter Clinger]

I am pretty confident that when the US military has "actionable intelligence" and appropriate force can be applied, we do so.

If you have information about criminal activity in Colorado, please contact the FBI and/or local law enforcement.

There are people watching and listening as we type. [Flower]

Be safe.

Here ya go
http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/381953/

Long article, there is a map though. The one in Buena Vista was shut down by the FBI.

The only knowledge I have of overseas op's are second hand, but from what I understand even if we know who and were the BG's are, our military's hands are bound by ROE's. If I am wrong then I'll admit it. As I have no first hand exp.

[Bitter Clinger]

I do not believe the governments of the world know who ALL of the evil people are. Sometimes if you watch a few evil people, they will lead you to even more evil people. Religious faith does not make a person evil. The actions you take determines whether a person is evil. What is in a man's head and heart determine whether the man is evil. This cannot be known by anyone other than the man and God.

It is frustrating being reactionary. It is one of the disadvantages of being good, IMO.

Totally agree

[trlcavscout]

What would that look like and who would lead such a campaign? What would be the end goal?

I nominate Jim, the Italians are good at this stuff. Isis would be sleepin wit da fiches and waking up with pigs heads next to dem.

Realistically, their is no negotiations and no way to make everyone happy enough to coexist with the differences we share with these people. War doesn't seem to help, and no one wants to kiss their ass to keep them happy. I really don't see an end to this anytime soon. I think purposely upsetting them publicly like the cartoonist did to draw them out and then pimp slapping them when they show up is a slow but steady way to find them, but also harassing and infringing on the non-violent people. So the same problem exists for the non-violent non-radicals there that exist for us here, do you take away the freedom of all to secure some?

[cstone]

Do you take away the freedom of all to secure some?

I would not.

[buffalobo]

As these types of attacks increase in frequency, will the citizens of disarmed nations cry out to be armed?

[MED]

I am pretty confident that when the US military has "actionable intelligence" and appropriate force can be applied, we do so.


Not under Obama's watch...

[ruthabagah]

Found this, but I have no personal experience: http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/07/unarmed-paris-police-retreated-from-terrorist-gunmen-video/

I just checked the video again, I am not sure if this officer was a policeman (armed) or a city constable (weapon optional) a larger pic shows a utility belt, but I cannot clearly see a holster.

[hurley842002]

As these types of attacks increase in frequency, will the citizens of disarmed nations cry out to be armed?
I hope...

[Dave_L]

Yeah right, they'll cry our for more laws and stricter surveillance.

[Dave]

As these types of attacks increase in frequency, will the citizens of disarmed nations cry out to be armed?
Nope, they are conditioned to surrender more freedoms to their governments. They will demand more invasive cameras and sensors in their cities so that everyone will be able to be tracked. The few people who have been able to maintain a hunting shotgun or rifle will end up losing them.

[buffalobo]

Nope, they are conditioned to surrender more freedoms to their governments. They will demand more invasive cameras and sensors in their cities so that everyone will be able to be tracked. The few people who have been able to maintain a hunting shotgun or rifle will end up losing them.
I tend to agree but hope it will be otherwise.

[Rooskibar03]

Looks like a clear case of workplace violence. Nothing to see here, move along.

[Irving]

As these types of attacks increase in frequency, will the citizens of disarmed nations cry out to be armed?

I don't think it would matter. This event would have been just as bad here IMO.

[buffalobo]

I don't think it would matter. This event would have been just as bad here IMO.
At least here there would be a chance of a "good guy with a gun".

[BushMasterBoy]

The French aircraft carrier Degaulle just entered the Persian gulf yesterday...

[trlcavscout]

I sure love that religion of peace. They gotta protect their prophet's image- a pedophile, murderer, thief...loser.

Oh no they have your name on their list to!

[Dave]

At least here there would be a chance of a "good guy with a gun".
No such thing as a good guy with a gun in NYC except the cops. And the cops there are scared sh!tless about doing their jobs right now. They know not to attack somewhere like Cheyenne, but Hollywood and Rodeo in LA would be an easy mark.

[KestrelBike]

No such thing as a good guy with a gun in NYC except the cops. And the cops there are scared sh!tless about doing their jobs right now. They know not to attack somewhere like Cheyenne, but Hollywood and Rodeo in LA would be an easy mark.

They'd end up shooting most of their own people in Rodeo, probably.

[wctriumph]

Well, maybe we should pull out of the unfriendly islamist countries, wait for them to coalesce into a "country" after killing off each other for a while. Then we will know where they are and we can go over and destroy them and then keep what we kill. Surely others would rally to their cause when it first starts and we can let them congregate and attack. Like in WWII, civilians are not civilians, they are a cottage industry support network that will need to be destroyed.

As far as over here, if they start to make trouble, the FBI should be able to handle it without any of us losing rights.

Who am I kidding, as soon as they form a country, our government will try to make a business deal and screw us all over for profit.


TEA

III

[asmo]

France has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world - and they are often touted as the model for 'gun safety' by all the gun control idiots in the US.
So if France's gun control laws prevent mass killings, then no mass killings can have occurred.


Q.E.D. The The terrorist attacks in France today are completely made up. They have to be.

[Singlestack]

Yeah right, they'll cry our for more laws and stricter surveillance.

I'd bet on that. Modern day French do not have a self defense culture (they did generations ago). Yup, they will demand a more stringent version of the Patriot Act as their solution for better security. And the smart terrorists will find ways around that and continue killings like this. With high and increasing muslim immigration to France, I believe France will become a sharia law state in time, and perhaps even a muslim state - giving the caliphate a stronghold in Europe.

[ruthabagah]

I'd bet on that. Modern day French do not have a self defense culture (they did generations ago). Yup, they will demand a more stringent version of the Patriot Act as their solution for better security. And the smart terrorists will find ways around that and continue killings like this. With high and increasing muslim immigration to France, I believe France will become a sharia law state in time, and perhaps even a muslim state - giving the caliphate a stronghold in Europe.

Totally agree with you except the last sentence. Immigration rates are dropping in france: No job.... And with what just happened, there is no doubt in my mind that the next elections will see the "Front National" (Far Right) win the presidency. The leader of this party, promised to "bulldoze all the mosques in France"....

[BushMasterBoy]

http://ufotestpilot.com/bombing.JPG

[twitchyfinger]

Islamic violence, once again, in Western Europe:

“Sweetest of all is liberty. This we have chosen, and this we pay for. We have embraced the laws of Lykurgus, and they are stern laws. They have schooled us to scorn the life of leisure, which this rich land of ours would bestow upon us if we wished, and instead to enroll ourselves in the academy of discipline and sacrifice. Guided by these laws, our fathers for twenty generations have breathed the blessed air of freedom and have paid the bill in full when it was presented.

We, their sons, can do no less!”

King Leonidas of Sparta, 480BC, from Steven Pressfield’s, “Gates of Fire: An Epic Novel of the Battle of Thermopylae”

Mass murder today in Paris at the office of a newspaper occasionally critical of Mohammed and Islam. Police murdered as well. Murderers, Islamic terrorists (becoming a redundancy!), all escaped. We’ll now likely see more of this throughout Western Europe, and in CONUS!

Naive liberals can’t really call for more disarmament of European sheep, can they? They’re already disarmed. Islamics apparently didn’t get the memo. They never do. AK47s used in the murders all, doubtless, have proper import documents!

Murderous, armed terrorists against disarmed citizenry and complacent “security” (consisting mostly of video cameras) doesn’t reveal genuine tactical competence, but it sufficed in this case. Islamic murderers may have had Syria/Iraq battlefield experience.

French Security Services will be thorough, meticulous, and figure this all out relatively quickly. Like us, they are ever fabulous- after its all over!

What to do about Islamics? Mealy-mouthed, forever apologetic, incompetent governments, here and there, will do nothing!

Accordingly:

At the beginning of every day, ask yourself:

Are you really prepared confront evil and determined men who intend to murder you and yours, not because of something you’ve said nor done, but because of whom and what you are?

When you’re a good and productive citizen, the current administration professes not to need you (after all, you “didn’t build it”), but protection and defense of our Constitution may, without warning, mandate your presence.

Stay ready to roll!

Like Spartans before us, we’re painfully discovering that endlessly claiming “neutrality” doesn’t float in this evil world!

/John Farnam

[RblDiver]

Posted article made me wonder. It said couple executed officers were unarmed. Why would they give up weapons?

It sounds like the first responders were unarmed bike cops. I don't know if those were the ones killed (the report I read said that they retreated in the face of the gunmen), but my guess is that their primary duties are more basic in nature (like parking tickets? don't know).

[ruthabagah]

It sounds like the first responders were unarmed bike cops. I don't know if those were the ones killed (the report I read said that they retreated in the face of the gunmen), but my guess is that their primary duties are more basic in nature (like parking tickets? don't know).

Both cops were armed. One was assigned security duty for Stephane Charbonier the editor,. he tried but did not have a chance to draw (according to the only surviving witness who was present in the meeting room), and the second one left his police station, ran in the direction of the shot and engaged the terrorists with his pistol. In the confusion of the attack he ordered bystander to hide in buildings / close their windows and this is when he was killed on the sidewalk. The second cop name is Ahmed....

The RAID and GIGN are closing in on the terrorist in Reims (80 miles east of Paris).

[cstone]

I am reminded of one of the great achievements of Charles Martel.

Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

Be safe.

[brutal]

I'm disappointed in you all.

I came into the thread expecting to see dead massacred terrorists.

[buffalobo]

I'm disappointed in you all.

I came into the thread expecting to see dead massacred terrorists.
That was the first thread. [emoji102]

[Big John]

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2367/european-muslim-no-go-zones

In France, large swaths of Muslim neighborhoods are now considered "no-go" zones by French police. At last count, there are 751 Sensitive Urban Zones (http://sig.ville.gouv.fr/Atlas/ZUS/) (Zones Urbaines Sensibles, ZUS), as they are euphemistically called. A complete list of the ZUS can be found on a French government website (http://sig.ville.gouv.fr/Atlas/ZUS/), complete with satellite maps and precise street demarcations. An estimated 5 million Muslims live in the ZUS, parts of France over which the French state has lost control.
Muslim immigrants are taking control of other parts of France too. In Paris and other French cities with high Muslim populations, such as Lyons, Marseilles and Toulouse, thousands of Muslims are closing off streets and sidewalks (and by extension, are closing down local businesses and trapping non-Muslim residents in their homes and offices) to accommodate overflowing crowds for Friday prayers. Some mosques have also begun broadcasting sermons and chants of "Allahu Akbar" via loudspeakers (http://ripostelaique.com/Dois-je-subir-tous-les-vendredis.html) into the streets.
The weekly spectacles, which have been documented by dozens of videos posted on Youtube.com (here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrNSRJAtoHk&feature=related), here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBBWZFb_FjY&feature=related), here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBvQk0QiFhI), here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bwy_dQAN2I&feature=related), here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZU6KYgz-14&feature=fvwrel), here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bwy_dQAN2I&feature=related), here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw64Qmk6sMs&feature=related), here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBBWZFb_FjY&feature=related) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJmZAqCxjI0&feature=related)), and which have been denounced as an "occupation without tanks or soldiers (http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/2010/12/11/01002-20101211ARTFIG00475-islam-et-occupation-la-provocation-de-marine-le-pen.php)," have provoked anger and disbelief. But despite many public complaints, local authorities have declined to intervene because they are afraid of sparking riots.

[BushMasterBoy]

That was fast!

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/paris-magazine-attack/paris-attack-suspect-dead-two-custody-n281761

[Gman]

That was fast!

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/paris-magazine-attack/paris-attack-suspect-dead-two-custody-n281761
Not fast enough. Two of them are still converting oxygen to CO2.

[Ridge]

I just checked the video again, I am not sure if this officer was a policeman (armed) or a city constable (weapon optional) a larger pic shows a utility belt, but I cannot clearly see a holster.

The cop died. His name was Ahmed Merabet.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/07/ahmed-merabet-cop-killed-in-paris-attacks-was-muslim/

[Aloha_Shooter]

It's time to wake up. A full world wide campaign against islam, like we did with the nazi's, is the only solution.

Why don't some of you understand that's exactly what the Islamic extremists want? Believe it or not, there are a ton of Muslims who don't want a Holy War but (the Islamic extremists hope) will slide over into taking active part if there is one. What we need is to use these incidents to force the Muslim "pacifists" to realize they have to take sides and defend civilization and their own religion against these fanatics.

[johngraves2]

As these types of attacks increase in frequency, will the citizens of disarmed nations cry out to be armed?

What annoys me about this, if you look at all the video's that have been posted of the attack, people are a mere one or two stories directly above the terrorists. Any one halfway trained with a rifle could have ended it right there in the street with a few well placed shots. Then everything would be over. But no, they cant have guns over there so everyone uses their phones to take so many videos of the events by just standing there recording it. dumb.

[Irving]

What annoys me about this, if you look at all the video's that have been posted of the attack, people are a mere one or two stories directly above the terrorists. Any one halfway trained with a rifle could have ended it right there in the street with a few well placed shots. Then everything would be over. But no, they cant have guns over there so everyone uses their phones to take so many videos of the events by just standing there recording it. dumb.

And if this exact same event happened at 16th and California this morning, about how many people would you expect would have been firing their rifles out the window to stop this?

[hatidua]

And if this exact same event happened at 16th and California this morning, about how many people would you expect would have been firing their rifles out the window to stop this?

Anyone that did (here) would have soon been arrested, tried for murder, convicted, and housed two cells down from the surviving terrorists.

[Gman]

Why don't some of you understand that's exactly what the Islamic extremists want? Believe it or not, there are a ton of Muslims who don't want a Holy War but (the Islamic extremists hope) will slide over into taking active part if there is one. What we need is to use these incidents to force the Muslim "pacifists" to realize they have to take sides and defend civilization and their own religion against these fanatics.
Throughout the entire history of Islam, when has what you want to happen ever happened?

[Aloha_Shooter]

Throughout the entire history of Islam, when has what you want to happen ever happened?

We do a pretty good job of getting Christians to repudiate the crap flowing out of the Westboro bunch and other crazies masquerading as "Christians". I'm simply saying we should be pressing the Muslims to do the same instead of falling into the extremist trap of trying to start a religious war. Make them see the inconsistencies with the extremist agenda and actions and get them to choose the side of angels.

[GilpinGuy]

We do a pretty good job of getting Christians to repudiate the crap flowing out of the Westboro bunch and other crazies masquerading as "Christians". I'm simply saying we should be pressing the Muslims to do the same instead of falling into the extremist trap of trying to start a religious war. Make them see the inconsistencies with the extremist agenda and actions and get them to choose the side of angels.

I don't think I have yet to hear one "cleric", or whatever they call their cult leaders, say anything even close to this. Too bad.

[Circuits]

I hope, but don't expect, we'll ever see anything hopeful and moderate come out of this crap or any responses to it.

Extremism begets extreme responses.

I think another crusade or world war will be the only mechanism to settle this. Hope I'm wrong.

[HoneyBadger]

I think another crusade or world war will be the only mechanism to settle this. Hope I'm wrong.
I too hope you are wrong, but I fear you are right. Take care of your families and stay safe.

[sroz]

We do a pretty good job of getting Christians to repudiate the crap flowing out of the Westboro bunch and other crazies masquerading as "Christians". I'm simply saying we should be pressing the Muslims to do the same instead of falling into the extremist trap of trying to start a religious war. Make them see the inconsistencies with the extremist agenda and actions and get them to choose the side of angels.

The Obama crowd would refer to this as "Hope". It is nothing more. As others on here have already stated, there is nothing to indicate this will happen in our or our children's life-times, if ever at all. Other than the occasional guest on Fox News, I have yet to hear of any significant denouncement of these acts by the Muslim community. Do you hear the crickets.........

[hurley842002]

Other than the occasional guest on Fox News, I have yet to hear of any significant denouncement of these acts by the Muslim community. Do you hear the crickets.........

You mean like this (starting at 2:20 about sums it up):

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/01/07/ex-navy-seal-gunmen-paris-attack-show-all-earmarks-sophistication

[Irving]

AK-47 is some enigma machine now?

[hurley842002]

AK-47 is some enigma machine now?
Yeah I kind of ignored that part of the interview, she actually interrupted him to get an opinion on the AK47.

[RblDiver]

I don't think I have yet to hear one "cleric", or whatever they call their cult leaders, say anything even close to this. Too bad.

Well, the Egyptian president made a pretty good start. http://freebeacon.com/national-security/egyptian-president-calls-for-religious-revolution-in-islam/

Hope we can hear more calls like this one.

[Ridge]

http://i.imgur.com/Ud7kVtM.png

[Big John]

I don't see a peaceful end to this. I also don't see us doing a damn thing about it as long as BHO is in the driver's seat.

[BPTactical]

I don't see a peaceful end to this. I also don't see us doing a damn thing about it as long as BHO is in the driver's seat.

Truth

[Bailey Guns]

The left is launching an all-out offensive against the "Muslim terrorist" labeling of those who commit atrocities against non-Muslims and in the name of Allah. Howard Dean (as irrelevant as he may be) is just the latest behind our favorite president, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, etc:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/01/08/howard-dean-paris-attackers-not-muslim-terrorists/

I believe that not every Muslim is a killer that wants to destroy me. I think the vast majority just wants to live in peace like I do. However, too many influential imams with large audiences of receptive young men (mostly) are successfully preaching that "infidels must die". Unfortunately, I don't know how to stop it.

The world is a big place. The radicals are being groomed all over it. There are over a billion Muslims in the world...so just a small percentage who become radicals present a real problem. I wish I had an answer.

I believe there is no reasoning with those who are radicals.

[SuperiorDG]

Only if they had these instead of cameras.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10906413_990998467581725_849737287179637576_n.jpg? oh=755a324aff4cdb496d7d08e8dbfc6583&oe=55433FBF&__gda__=1429433334_8288fcddc921ddbd7d9b3e2c75c9c42 1

[roberth]

Anyone that did (here) would have soon been arrested, tried for murder, convicted, and housed two cells down from the surviving terrorists.

Yup, no good deed goes unpunished.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

The media won't go anti Islam because of the threat of something like this. More importantly, our media won't care because it happened in France, not the US. They'll say it was Muslim terrorists.

If Howard Dean has his way, they won't even say that!
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/01/08/howard-dean-paris-attackers-not-muslim-terrorists/


Former Democratic Party head Howard Dean objected to calling the shooters in the Paris attack "Muslim terrorists," though the attackers were witnessed shouting "Allahu akbar" as they fired.

Dean, speaking Wednesday on MSNBC, argued that they should be treated as "mass murderers" instead.

"I stopped calling these people Muslim terrorists. They're about as Muslim as I am," he said. "I mean, they have no respect for anybody else's life, that's not what the Koran says. And, you know Europe has an enormous radical problem. ... I think ISIS is a cult. Not an Islamic cult. I think it's a cult."

[KS63]

Another attack just happened.

http://controversialtimes.com/news/breaking-new-terror-attack-in-france-rifle-wielding-suspect-shoots-and-kills-policewoman/

[Dave_L]

And if this exact same event happened at 16th and California this morning, about how many people would you expect would have been firing their rifles out the window to stop this?

LOL. In Denver (or any other major city), none. Major cities have been save havens for criminals. Gun restrictions and the general "the government will take care of us" mentality has taken over cities. Now, a more rural area, you may have a different story. I wouldnt even expect someone to say/do something if they saw a mugging in Denver.

[Ah Pook]

I'm disappointed in you all.

I came into the thread expecting to see dead massacred terrorists.
I came here looking for large massacred terrorist. Really big ones.

I guess grammar is like that sometimes.

I wonder how many copycats will follow this cowardice?

[Dave_L]

Also, it looks like next time there's a mass shooting of any kind in the US, gun owners should just tweet "I'm a gun owner and this isnt us. I condemn these actions. #NotAllGunOwners." and we'll get sympathy from the world, right?

[roberth]

Also, it looks like next time there's a mass shooting of any kind in the US, gun owners should just tweet "I'm a gun owner and this isnt us. I condemn these actions. #NotAllGunOwners." and we'll get sympathy from the world, right?

Keep that dream alive. :)

[Dave_L]

Keep that dream alive. :)

Exactly. Stereotypes are only ok when they line up with the agenda.

[Chad4000]

Also, it looks like next time there's a mass shooting of any kind in the US, gun owners should just tweet "I'm a gun owner and this isnt us. I condemn these actions. #NotAllGunOwners." and we'll get sympathy from the world, right?

Fantastic post.

[hurley842002]

Now, a more rural area, you may have a different story.

Still not accurate in my opinion/experience. I was born and raised in a small rural town, and I don't foresee anybody responding with rifles if an attack like this happened. The rifles and shotguns in the windows of pickup trucks are a thing of the past.

[Dave_L]

Yeah, I agree that having a rifle close by outside of your home is not as common, even in the rural areas. I meant it more of a "there's a greater chance of someone having a gun and willing to try to stop them, even if its just a distraction while the person directly in harms way gets safe.".

[Chad4000]

Yeah, I agree that having a rifle close by outside of your home is not as common, even in the rural areas. I meant it more of a "there's a greater chance of someone having a gun and willing to try to stop them, even if its just a distraction while the person directly in harms way gets safe.".

Even somebody running a handgun could have landed shots at those distances potentially.. not that it may be the smartest idea, but just saying it didnt look like a rifle would have been necessary.

[RblDiver]

In a case of the opposite of "I'm a Muslim and I condemn this," here's a prominent radical cleric from the UK cheering on the killers.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/01/07/islam-allah-muslims-shariah-anjem-choudary-editorials-debates/21417461/

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/01/08/usa-today-column-why-did-france-allow-satirists-to-attack-mohammed/

[hurley842002]

I think there is a false perception that everyone in the rural areas is armed, and in my experience that's just not the case, in fact probably less people are armed. My father is very pro 2a, and after 52 years is just now looking to get a CCW permit. CCW is just not a high priority for smaller towns in my experience.

[MED]

I think there is a false perception that everyone in the rural areas is armed, and in my experience that's just not the case, in fact probably less people are armed. My father is very pro 2a, and after 52 years is just now looking to get a CCW permit. CCW is just not a high priority for smaller towns in my experience.

My sister and brother-in-law own a ranch. They keep a pistol and rifle loaded at the back door, which they use to protect their livestock. They are often armed when they are out on the land to project themselves from predators. They are never armed away from the ranch except for back country camping; the thought of protecting from the two legged critters never crosses their mind. At Christmas they said they were having a coyote problem with them packing; looks like I am going out at some point to kill few.

[Gman]

I don't give a damn about someone claiming to be a muslim saying that they condemn the action. I believe they are lying to us infidels (which their religion clearly allows them to do). Does anyone else remember Yasser Arafat condemning Palestinian attacks of Israel in english to the western media while encouraging more of the same in arabic?

I will believe them when they TAKE ACTION AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. In the absence of that happening in the history of ever, there's only one proven way for the rest of the world to confront it.

[.455_Hunter]

I think there is a false perception that everyone in the rural areas is armed, and in my experience that's just not the case, in fact probably less people are armed.

All of my brothers-in-law live in semi-rural South Dakota (on farms or acreages) and have a very FUDD impression of gun ownership:

.22 Rifle (bolt or tube fed semi)- OK! Good for varmint control.

Deer Rifle (bolt, pump or lever)- OK! Good for hunting (rare).

Sporting Shotgun (pump or semi- all field length barrels)- OK! Good for hunting, varmint control, maybe trap (rare).

Handgun, Black Rifle, Defensive Shotgun- NO WAY! Are you some kind of kook? Do you want to kill somebody? Why would you need one of those?

It's really quite mystifying...

[MED]

I didn’t know if I wanted to respond to this thread or not but what bothers me most is the defense of these people, and I refuse to take the politically correct stand when it comes to Islam. People talk about the “majority” of Muslims who are not violent. The problem with this thinking is that 10-20% ARE EXTREMELY VIOLENT numbering in the millions, and the so-called “peaceful majority” does nothing to stop them. Why, because the Quran calls for violence something like 109 times. Here is a sample of their peaceful book. Quran (2:191-193) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.191) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

I spent four decades of my life watching these people murder innocent after innocent in the most cowardly acts imaginable, and I find nothing in their history that this was any different; their empire was destroyed internally because they couldn’t stop killing each other and that has never stopped. They continue to do what was considered unacceptable by the civilized world long ago. Yes, people have done horrible things throughout history; but it is 2015, and they will not stop with their mid-evil acts of barbarism. If the so-called “peaceful muslins” truly want to defend themselves, their culture, and their religion, then they need to stand up and do something about it and not cry “not me not me” because the rest of the world is sick of their shit. Until they can find some measure of peaceful co-existence with the rest of humanity, they are the scourge that plagues this planet. No form of appeasement has ever worked with these people, and it never will.

[ruthabagah]

I didn’t know if I wanted to respond to this thread or not but what bothers me most is the defense of these people, and I refuse to take the politically correct stand when it comes to Islam. People talk about the “majority” of Muslims who are not violent. The problem with this thinking is that 10-20% ARE EXTREMELY VIOLENT numbering in the millions, and the so-called “peaceful majority” does nothing to stop them. Why, because the Quran calls for violence something like 109 times. Here is a sample of their peaceful book. Quran (2:191-193) (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.191) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

I spent four decades of my life watching these people murder innocent after innocent in the most cowardly acts imaginable, and I find nothing in their history that this was any different; their empire was destroyed internally because they couldn’t stop killing each other and that has never stopped. They continue to do what was considered unacceptable by the civilized world long ago. Yes, people have done horrible things throughout history; but it is 2015, and they will not stop with their mid-evil acts of barbarism. If the so-called “peaceful muslins” truly want to defend themselves, their culture, and their religion, then they need to stand up and do something about it and not cry “not me not me” because the rest of the word is sick of their shit. Until they can find some measure of peaceful co-existence with the rest of humanity, they are the scourge that plagues this planet. No form of appeasement has ever worked with these people, and it never will.

So well said.

[davsel]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-america-needs-redouble-effort-explain-true-tenets-islam_823321.html

White House press secretary Josh Earnest explained to reporters today that the United States needs to "redouble" efforts to explain "what the tenets of Islam actually are." He made the comments in response to a question about how the U.S. might respond to the terror attack today in France.
...

"There are some individuals that are using a peaceful religion and grossly distorting it, and trying to use its tenets to inspire people around the globe to carry out acts of violence. And we have enjoyed significant success in enlisting leaders in the Muslim community, like I said, both in the United States and around the world to condemn that kind of messaging, to condemn those efforts to radicalize individuals, and to be clear about what the tenets of Islam actually are. And we’re going to redouble those efforts in the days and weeks ahead."

Kinda like redoubling effort to espouse the benefits of having a yard full of rattle snakes.
Unbelievable. This is how the United States President responds to a terror attack on one of our oldest allies? Unbelievable.

[RblDiver]

I think Bill Maher is rather loathsome, but every now and then he says something I can agree with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PioHDGEt6BM

[davsel]

Good read.
Coming to a neighborhood near you:
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/01/mosques_on_the_front_lines_in_the_war_against_amer ica.html

As the Islamic invasion advances, mosques are proliferating across the United States at breakneck speed. And there appears to be no end (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mosques_in_the_United_States) in sight.

Since 9/11, the number of mosques in America has grown by 75%. The timing of this is no coincidence. Mosques are a symbol of Islamic supremacism. Islam attacks. Then it plants a triumphal mosque on the battlefield. And another. And another. And another.

The proliferation of mosques is also a sign of our incomprehensible response (or lack thereof) to the threat of Islam.

War has been waged against the United States and what have we done? We have welcomed the enemy with open arms. Dhimmitude has paved the way for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of new mosques since the day nearly 3,000 Americans were murdered in the name of Islam.

[Aloha_Shooter]

http://www.stratfor.com/geopolitical-diary/paris-attack-underscores-deeper-malaise?0=ip_login_no_cache%3De965ce5fd5d909594ebd edb32e028f6d#axzz3O9XqOvot


The jihadist objective is to get the states to crack down harder on Muslim communities in order to further their narrative that the West is waging war on Islam and Muslims.


While Western states go to great lengths to demonstrate that no such clash of civilizations is occurring, right-wing forces engage in rhetoric that reinforces these fears among many common Muslims across the world.

I take a little offense to his "right-wing" crap and implication that "progressive" Muslims are the good Muslims but IMNSHO he's right about the jihadists wanting us to adopt generally anti-Muslim rhetoric. What I think we should be doing is pushing the peaceful Muslims to see they MUST denounce the jihadists and more -- they really need to pronounce a fatwa against the current fad of blind extremely violent terrorism.

[sroz]

http://www.stratfor.com/geopolitical-diary/paris-attack-underscores-deeper-malaise?0=ip_login_no_cache%3De965ce5fd5d909594ebd edb32e028f6d#axzz3O9XqOvot


I take a little offense to his "right-wing" crap and implication that "progressive" Muslims are the good Muslims but IMNSHO he's right about the jihadists wanting us to adopt generally anti-Muslim rhetoric. What I think we should be doing is pushing the peaceful Muslims to see they MUST denounce the jihadists and more -- they really need to pronounce a fatwa against the current fad of blind extremely violent terrorism.
How do you propose to "push" the peaceful Muslims to do what you want. Tell me one time that has occurred with these animals. I for one am tired of them and tired of listening to the excuses. Oh what a wonderful world it would be if only we could all get along.....bullshit.

[hollohas]

This is not a new situation for America. We've been dealing with them since the day we became a country.

As soon as we beat the Brits, American Merchant Marines no longer had treaties to keep them relatively safe from the Barbary pirates (Muslims from the Ottoman Empire). In fact, Morocco was one of the very first countries to recognize America as a nation for the sole purpose that they could extort us for "treaty" money. America tried to pay the countries along the Barbary Coast yearly "fees" for safe passage, which weren't always honored, so America also paid lots of ransom money to free hostages from the Barbary Pirates for years. Because we were a new country and money was tight, these expenses dealing with the Muslim pirates reached up to 20% of our new government's yearly expenses.

Long story short, we tried back then to deal with them diplomatically and failed. Jefferson got tired of it and thought it would bankrupt us. This all led to the creation of the US Navy which we used to keep our merchant ships safe from the Barbary pirates in the Barbary War.

I mention all this because I believe Jefferson was one of the smartest men our country has ever had the pleasure to have as a citizen and leader. He tried diplomacy, it didn't work. We should learn from that history. The only thing that worked then was force and that's the only thing that will work now to make these "extremists" go away.

[Irving]

I mention all this because I believe Jefferson was one of the smartest men our country has ever had the pleasure to have as a citizen and leader.

Even smarter than Michael Moore and Jesse Jackson? Surely you jest. :p

[hollohas]

Even smarter than Michael Moore and Jesse Jackson? Surely you jest. [emoji14]
Caught me.

[Gunservant]

My response:

Je suis Charlie. Je ne suis pas Charlie.

Posted on January 8, 2015 (http://gunservant.com/2015/01/08/je-suis-charlie-je-ne-suis-pas-charlie/) by gunservant85 (http://gunservant.com/author/gunservant85/)

Another day the World stood still, and recoiled in repulsion as detestable acts of extreme violence were perpetrated by extremists against innocents. The theatre of the latest Danse Macabre was the head office of the French weekly satirical newspaper, Charlie Hebdo, in Paris. At approximately 11:30 CET two masked men armed with Kalashnikov rifles, a shotgun, and an RPG 7 attacked the newspaper’s headquarters, resulting in the deaths of 12 people and the wounding of 11 others.

Two of the deceased were police officers, one of which was tasked with guarding the offices and its staff.

Among those who died was Ahmed Merabet, a policeman on patrol at the time of the attack. He was wounded by the terrorists, who then proceeded to cold-bloodedly murder him as he lay prone on the pavement, begging for his life.

Take a good look at this photograph. It shows the last, violent moments of a man’s life as he is completely at the mercy of the men intent on killing him.


https://gunservantdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/charliehebdocopkilled.jpg?w=300&h=169 (https://gunservantdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/charliehebdocopkilled.jpg)


Moments later he was dead, coldly shot at point-blank range as if he were nothing more than a varmint. His provocation of his murderers? He put his hands up and surrendered.

Thinking of what it must be like, staring death in the face and being completely powerless to do anything about it terrifies me. I know full well that no man can choose the time and the place of his passing, or how he is going to die. Not even I am that arrogant. Yet I refuse to accept that I will have no say in such matters when someone tries to do me in, and that I am condemned to the default status of unwilling and helpless victim.

I do not know if Ahmed Merabet had the capacity to fight his attackers: eyewitness reports indicated that some of the first responding French police were unarmed (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/charlie-hebdo-french-satirical-magazine-paris-office-attack-leaves-casualties/), and were forced to withdraw until armed reinforcements could arrive on-scene. It is likely that he was unarmed as well.

It is uncertain if the officer inside the building was armed, and it is known that none of the staff were: French firearm laws are restrictive when it comes to owning and carrying guns for self-defence.

Perhaps if they were this story may have had a different ending. Perhaps less people would have died, or perhaps the entire thing could have been foiled at the very start. Perhaps.

Much like the pre-Christmas siege in the Sydney café (http://gunservant.com/2014/12/16/terror-disarmament-and-the-illusion-of-safety/), we will never know now. It is too late. It’s over.

What I do know is that if I am ever given the choice between lying down on the pavement and begging for my life, or fighting back with everything I have available, the latter option is by far the more comforting one. Even if I don’t make it, at least I may be able to take one of my attackers with me, and so doing possibly spare someone else’s life.

But for me to be able to do so, I must be allowed the tools and the capacity to resist. When a government takes those tools away from its people, for whatever reason, they are condemned to the status of victimhood.

There was a reason why the Secretary General of Interpol, Ronald Noble, considered armed citizenry (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/exclusive-westgate-interpol-chief-ponders-armed-citizenry/story?id=20637341) as desirable during a press conference after the Westgate Mall attacks in Nairobi: they can stop terrorists and save lives.

Perhaps this is a lesson that we are in the process of learning, painfully and by enduring much tragedy and suffering. We cannot expect our governments and security forces to guarantee our safety. Keeping the enemy out is impossible: they will always find a way in.

When the last line of defence fails, you become the front line of defence.

La Marseillaise had the right idea,






Allons enfants de la Patrie,

Arise, children of the Fatherland,


Le jour de gloire est arrivé !
The day of glory has arrived!


Contre nous de la tyrannie,
Against us tyranny


L’étendard sanglant est levé, (bis)
Raises its bloody banner (repeat)


Entendez-vous dans les campagnes
Do you hear, in the countryside,


Mugir ces féroces soldats ?
The roar of those ferocious soldiers?


Ils viennent jusque dans nos bras
They’re coming right into your arms


Égorger nos fils, nos compagnes !
To cut the throats of your sons and women!




Aux armes, citoyens,
To arms, citizens,


Formez vos bataillons,
Form your battalions,


Marchons, marchons !
Let’s march, let’s march!


Qu’un sang impur
Let an impure blood


Abreuve nos sillons ! (bis)
Water our furrows! (Repeat)
























































These bloody and tragic events will not defeat France. The French have endured much, and will continue to endure much more. If there is one thing that these cowardly terrorists will learn, it is that one cannot kill ideas with bullets.

Vive la France!

[Joe_K]

Double Post!

[Joe_K]

We do a pretty good job of getting Christians to repudiate the crap flowing out of the Westboro bunch and other crazies masquerading as "Christians". I'm simply saying we should be pressing the Muslims to do the same instead of falling into the extremist trap of trying to start a religious war. Make them see the inconsistencies with the extremist agenda and actions and get them to choose the side of angels.

Munich,Iran Hostage taking, Beruit, Somolia, 93' WTC attack #1, USS Cole, 9-11-2001, Afghanistan, Iraq, Beslan, Syria, Boston Marathon, ISIS, and now Paris. Seems to me all these "moderate ,level headed, freedom loving, pro-western, liberal" Mohammedans have had just...a few events to distance themselves from their child sex slave, polygamist, debauched, woman beating, window licking extremist cousins. While were comparing apples to grapefruits its hardly fair to compare a bunch of anti-gay, anti-.gov, fringe Baptists to the Millions of extremist Muslims across the globe.

[68Charger]

"peaceful" Muslims are IRRELEVANT

And in ANY society where a minority are bent on destroying/killing other people- the peaceful majority of that society is IRRELEVANT.
How many German citizens before and during WW2 were peaceful, and how effective were they at stopping the Nazis? They were IRRELEVANT.
How effective were the peaceful majority of Russians, Chinese, Japanese, or _________ while a minority of those populations when on to slaughter millions? They were IRRELEVANT.

The "peaceful" Muslims are not going to be any help, they will be oppressed by the violent Muslims at best, and collaborate and lie about it at worst.

[ruthabagah]

It's over.... GIGN just terminated the threat. No need for a discussion on the death penalty in France....

[Aloha_Shooter]

The point is that we don't push and force the vast majority of Muslims to face facts and take a stand against their own extremists like devout Christians are continually forced to show they're not all Westboro adherents. Instead, we let CAIR fill the airwaves with their bilious crap about understanding where the jihadists are coming from and trying to place the blame on the West. Instead of jumping immediately to religious war, how about just putting the Muslim majorities on the spot and asking them, "do these violent extremists really represent you?" and "why aren't you actively fighting this garbage that defames a religion you claim is so peaceful?"

BTW, some Muslims ARE on our side in this. It's shameful the Egyptian president has been more straightforward about telling the imams they need to actively fix this situation than our American president.

[BushMasterBoy]

The news says the suspects are dead.

[68Charger]

The point is that we don't push and force the vast majority of Muslims to face facts and take a stand against their own extremists like devout Christians are continually forced to show they're not all Westboro adherents. Instead, we let CAIR fill the airwaves with their bilious crap about understanding where the jihadists are coming from and trying to place the blame on the West. Instead of jumping immediately to religious war, how about just putting the Muslim majorities on the spot and asking them, "do these violent extremists really represent you?" and "why aren't you actively fighting this garbage that defames a religion you claim is so peaceful?"

BTW, some Muslims ARE on our side in this. It's shameful the Egyptian president has been more straightforward about telling the imams they need to actively fix this situation than our American president.

It doesn't matter if they're "on our side" unless they're willing to attack the violent factions of their religion- and "peaceful" Muslims aren't about attacking right?

I'm sorry, I just don't see getting the "peaceful" Muslims to clean up their religion- the division of resolve between the violent 15-20% and the majority is too great (in other words, they're more afraid of the "radical" Muslims than we are)

[Gman]

It's over....
No, it's just getting started.

[ruthabagah]

some of the statistics out there say 11 million muslims have been killed by other muslims in the last 60 years or so. at that rate, maybe they will solve the problem on their own.

[ROFL1]

[MED]

some of the statistics out there say 11 million muslims have been killed by other muslims in the last 60 years or so. at that rate, maybe they will solve the problem on their own.

They have been killing each other since the pre-Islam caravan raiding days. They killed each other through the rise and fall of the Arab and Ottoman empires, they killed each other through Safavid and up Persia, They kill each other in modern times, and they will continue to kill each other. Somehow, there are always more to take their place.

[HoneyBadger]

"peaceful" Muslims are IRRELEVANT

And in ANY society where a minority are bent on destroying/killing other people- the peaceful majority of that society is IRRELEVANT.
How many German citizens before and during WW2 were peaceful, and how effective were they at stopping the Nazis? They were IRRELEVANT.
How effective were the peaceful majority of Russians, Chinese, Japanese, or _________ while a minority of those populations when on to slaughter millions? They were IRRELEVANT.

The "peaceful" Muslims are not going to be any help, they will be oppressed by the violent Muslims at best, and collaborate and lie about it at worst.

Have you posted this here before? I like it.

[Gman]

There was a video in an earlier thread where a muslim woman in the crowd was using the "them not us" argument. The speaker's response was very much like 68Charger's post.

ETA: Brigitte Gabriel was her name. Here's the video;

http://youtu.be/iI74lOgfxk4

[HoneyBadger]

My response:

Je suis Charlie. Je ne suis pas Charlie.

Posted on January 8, 2015 (http://gunservant.com/2015/01/08/je-suis-charlie-je-ne-suis-pas-charlie/) by gunservant85 (http://gunservant.com/author/gunservant85/)

Another day the World stood still, and recoiled in repulsion as detestable acts of extreme violence were perpetrated by extremists against innocents. The theatre of the latest Danse Macabre was the head office of the French weekly satirical newspaper, Charlie Hebdo, in Paris. At approximately 11:30 CET two masked men armed with Kalashnikov rifles, a shotgun, and an RPG 7 attacked the newspaper’s headquarters, resulting in the deaths of 12 people and the wounding of 11 others.

Two of the deceased were police officers, one of which was tasked with guarding the offices and its staff.

Among those who died was Ahmed Merabet, a policeman on patrol at the time of the attack. He was wounded by the terrorists, who then proceeded to cold-bloodedly murder him as he lay prone on the pavement, begging for his life.

Take a good look at this photograph. It shows the last, violent moments of a man’s life as he is completely at the mercy of the men intent on killing him.


https://gunservantdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/charliehebdocopkilled.jpg?w=300&h=169 (https://gunservantdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/charliehebdocopkilled.jpg)


Moments later he was dead, coldly shot at point-blank range as if he were nothing more than a varmint. His provocation of his murderers? He put his hands up and surrendered.

Thinking of what it must be like, staring death in the face and being completely powerless to do anything about it terrifies me. I know full well that no man can choose the time and the place of his passing, or how he is going to die. Not even I am that arrogant. Yet I refuse to accept that I will have no say in such matters when someone tries to do me in, and that I am condemned to the default status of unwilling and helpless victim.

I do not know if Ahmed Merabet had the capacity to fight his attackers: eyewitness reports indicated that some of the first responding French police were unarmed (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/charlie-hebdo-french-satirical-magazine-paris-office-attack-leaves-casualties/), and were forced to withdraw until armed reinforcements could arrive on-scene. It is likely that he was unarmed as well.

It is uncertain if the officer inside the building was armed, and it is known that none of the staff were: French firearm laws are restrictive when it comes to owning and carrying guns for self-defence.

Perhaps if they were this story may have had a different ending. Perhaps less people would have died, or perhaps the entire thing could have been foiled at the very start. Perhaps.

Much like the pre-Christmas siege in the Sydney café (http://gunservant.com/2014/12/16/terror-disarmament-and-the-illusion-of-safety/), we will never know now. It is too late. It’s over.

What I do know is that if I am ever given the choice between lying down on the pavement and begging for my life, or fighting back with everything I have available, the latter option is by far the more comforting one. Even if I don’t make it, at least I may be able to take one of my attackers with me, and so doing possibly spare someone else’s life.

But for me to be able to do so, I must be allowed the tools and the capacity to resist. When a government takes those tools away from its people, for whatever reason, they are condemned to the status of victimhood.

There was a reason why the Secretary General of Interpol, Ronald Noble, considered armed citizenry (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/exclusive-westgate-interpol-chief-ponders-armed-citizenry/story?id=20637341) as desirable during a press conference after the Westgate Mall attacks in Nairobi: they can stop terrorists and save lives.

Perhaps this is a lesson that we are in the process of learning, painfully and by enduring much tragedy and suffering. We cannot expect our governments and security forces to guarantee our safety. Keeping the enemy out is impossible: they will always find a way in.

When the last line of defence fails, you become the front line of defence.

La Marseillaise had the right idea,





Allons enfants de la Patrie,

Arise, children of the Fatherland,



Le jour de gloire est arrivé !

The day of glory has arrived!



Contre nous de la tyrannie,

Against us tyranny



L’étendard sanglant est levé, (bis)

Raises its bloody banner (repeat)



Entendez-vous dans les campagnes

Do you hear, in the countryside,



Mugir ces féroces soldats ?

The roar of those ferocious soldiers?



Ils viennent jusque dans nos bras

They’re coming right into your arms



Égorger nos fils, nos compagnes !

To cut the throats of your sons and women!





Aux armes, citoyens,

To arms, citizens,



Formez vos bataillons,

Form your battalions,



Marchons, marchons !

Let’s march, let’s march!



Qu’un sang impur

Let an impure blood



Abreuve nos sillons ! (bis)

Water our furrows! (Repeat)

































These bloody and tragic events will not defeat France. The French have endured much, and will continue to endure much more. If there is one thing that these cowardly terrorists will learn, it is that one cannot kill ideas with bullets.

Vive la France!

Would you mind if I shared this on Facebook? It is very well written. [Beer]

[68Charger]

Have you posted this here before? I like it.

GMan posted the video that was the inspiration... I Quoted/paraphrased for truth...

[asmo]

There was a video in an earlier thread where a muslim woman in the crowd was using the "them not us" argument. The speaker's response was very much like 68Charger's post.

ETA: Brigitte Gabriel was her name. Here's the video;

http://youtu.be/iI74lOgfxk4


If you want the break down in numbers to go with this:

g7TAAw3oQvg

[sroz]

The point is that we don't push and force the vast majority of Muslims to face facts and take a stand against their own extremists like devout Christians are continually forced to show they're not all Westboro adherents. Instead, we let CAIR fill the airwaves with their bilious crap about understanding where the jihadists are coming from and trying to place the blame on the West. Instead of jumping immediately to religious war, how about just putting the Muslim majorities on the spot and asking them, "do these violent extremists really represent you?" and "why aren't you actively fighting this garbage that defames a religion you claim is so peaceful?"

BTW, some Muslims ARE on our side in this. It's shameful the Egyptian president has been more straightforward about telling the imams they need to actively fix this situation than our American president.

How many times do the questions you pose have to be asked of the peaceful Muslims? My GOD, man! They will never answer the call. Do you realize you are saying exactly the same things Hillary, Obama, Kerry,......are saying? We are witnessing the results of this approach. IT DOES NOT WORK!

[buckshotbarlow]

After watching the response on the web, I doubt any good muslims will ever say anything. When good folk sit down, shut up and don't do anything, the bad ones get away with what ever they want. Then, they'll eat their own.

[davsel]

Ann Barnhardt's excellent response:
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2015/01/08/cut-the-crap-the-problem-is-islam-and-it-has-to-be-exterminated-period/

[Irving]

I didn't make it out of the first paragraph before she lost me.


The paper-thin faux-religious facade was a conscious, specific con from the very beginning – much like Mormonism and Scientology – a pure racket using borrowed and piggy-backed religious motifs to lend credibility to a massive, loosely-knit network of crime syndicate cells.

Mormonism is a pure racket to lend credibility to a massive, loosely-knit network of crime syndicate cells? What are they peddling, canned foods? If you can't make your argument without going off on an unrelated rant within the first paragraph, how strong is your case?

[BPTactical]

Ann Barnhardt's excellent response:
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2015/01/08/cut-the-crap-the-problem-is-islam-and-it-has-to-be-exterminated-period/

Hits it out of the park

[Bailey Guns]

I didn't make it out of the first paragraph before she lost me.

I made it a little further...but, yeah. Way over the top.

[Skip]

Ann Barnhardt's excellent response:
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2015/01/08/cut-the-crap-the-problem-is-islam-and-it-has-to-be-exterminated-period/

I think there are some good points here.

If Islam is a political, social, and economic system, it explains why there is a lack of willingness to assimilate into other cultures after immigration. I heard Krauthammer on Fox the other night point out this really is unprecedented; having a group that immigrates into western nations with no intention of assimilation.

I have also seen numerous videos of prominent Imams explaining there is no part of life that is untouched by Islam. Completely different in the West where I can be a Christian, work for a secular company, and have friends that do not share my faith.

I was also going to post in this thread last night (but thought better of it) that the world is big place... There is no practical or moral reason for all people to have to live in one society with shared values. The immorality comes into play when one group uses force (violence and threats of violence) to compel another to live their way in contradiction of their natural rights (Freedom of Religion/Speech). Our Founders called that tyranny and responded appropriately. It seems to me when this is put into secular terms we are good at identifying it (e.g. Obamacare mandate) but when the word "Islam" is spoken it creates moral confusion.

Islam owns nearly the entire Middle East with plenty of space for Muslims to prosper and live with their values; Sunni, Shia, etc... There is no where in the world to which non-Muslims can run and recreate the West.

[Gman]

Islam owns nearly the entire Middle East with plenty of space for Muslims to prosper and live with their values; Sunni, Shia, etc... There is no where in the world to which non-Muslims can run and recreate the West.
There is no coexistence with Islam and Sharia law. Convert or die are your two options.

[brutal]

Here's your missing/paused terrorist going down.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=869_1420833044

[Gman]

They said they wanted to be "martyred". Looked like suicide by cop to me.

[HoneyBadger]

Here's your missing/paused terrorist going down.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=869_1420833044
Good thing that guy didn't have a bomb strapped to his chest.... All those cops would've been toast!

[Dave]

Now it looks like Germany is possibly getting some attention from the Islamists. http://news.yahoo.com/arson-attack-hamburg-newspaper-printed-charlie-hebdo-cartoons-072635062.html

[Skip]

Here's your missing/paused terrorist going down.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=869_1420833044

Not even worth censoring, IMHO.

[Gman]

There were 4 hostages killed at the grocery store. I wonder how many at the terrorist's hand vs. the police firing into the store?

[ruthabagah]

There were 4 hostages killed at the grocery store. I wonder how many at the terrorist's hand vs. the police firing into the store?

According to the other hostage, they were all killed by the terrorist. 1 of them while trying to wrestle the gun out of his hand.

http://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/attaque-au-siege-de-charlie-hebdo/video-le-recit-des-otages-de-la-porte-de-vincennes-il-nous-a-dits-qu-il-n-avait-pas-peur-de-mourir_793543.html

[sroz]

According to the other hostage, they were all killed by the terrorist. 1 of them while trying to wrestle the gun out of his hand.

http://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/attaque-au-siege-de-charlie-hebdo/video-le-recit-des-otages-de-la-porte-de-vincennes-il-nous-a-dits-qu-il-n-avait-pas-peur-de-mourir_793543.html

Thanks for posting this.

[Ridge]

Over 3 million French marched in Paris today in support of their right to be snarky Frenchmen.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7FcMzUIQAM3DOz.jpg:large

http://cdnmo.coveritlive.com/media/image/201501/1600_php1oh7tt456216.jpg

[ruthabagah]

Over 3 million French marched in Paris today in support of their right to be snarky Frenchmen.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7FcMzUIQAM3DOz.jpg:large

http://cdnmo.coveritlive.com/media/image/201501/1600_php1oh7tt456216.jpg

[ROFL1] Yep. And 100 did the same thing here in Denver today. http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27300276/denver-demonstrators-gather-support-parisian-terrorist-victims

[sroz]

[ROFL1] Yep. And 100 did the same thing here in Denver today. http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27300276/denver-demonstrators-gather-support-parisian-terrorist-victims

Woulda been different had they been passing out pot.

[ruthabagah]

Woulda been different had they been passing out pot.

We were thinking about it...And free french pastries for the non smoker / under 21.

[sroz]

We were thinking about it...And free french pastries for the non smoker / under 21.

I'll take the french pastries every time.

[brutal]

Old Spice could make a really good commercial with that.

[PugnacAutMortem]

Good for Charlie Hebdo. Printing 3 million copies (up from their normal run of 60,000) with Muhammad on the cover with the caption "All is forgiven".

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-GK083_Charli_P_20150112182529.jpg

[Dave_L]

Wouldn't it make sense to ask Muslims to "compromise" for the safety of all? That's what people demand of gun owners after one person does something horrific with a gun.

[RblDiver]

Muslim mayor of a Netherlands town: If you don't like Western values, then f$#@ off.
(Only NSFW if your boss understands Dutch)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsOBjkCyCj8

Edit: Ah, repost technically, SamuraiCo posted it over in the Is Liam Neeson thread)

[ruthabagah]

Good for Charlie Hebdo. Printing 3 million copies (up from their normal run of 60,000) with Muhammad on the cover with the caption "All is forgiven".

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-GK083_Charli_P_20150112182529.jpg

Should be available for sale soon at the French Alliance in Denver.

[PugnacAutMortem]

Should be available for sale soon at the French Alliance in Denver.

Wonder if there will be ISIS operatives standing next to the magazine stand taking pictures of everyone that buys one?

[ruthabagah]

Wonder if there will be ISIS operatives standing next to the magazine stand taking pictures of everyone that buys one?

i hope there is! The difference between the french people living in france and the one hanging here in denver, is that we are armed to the teeth!

[hurley842002]

i hope there is! The difference between the french people living in france and the one hanging here in denver, is that we are armed to the teeth!
A little optimistic aren't you? More people armed in Denver than Paris? Yes. People in Denver armed to the teeth, please....

[ruthabagah]

A little optimistic aren't you? More people armed in Denver than Paris? Yes. People in Denver armed to the teeth, please....

You are right. Allow me to clarify and rephrase: "The difference between the french people living in france and the one hanging here in Colorado, is that we are armed to the teeth!

[Great-Kazoo]

You are right. Allow me to clarify and rephrase: "The difference between the french people living in france and the one hanging here in Colorado, is that we HAVE TEETH!

[buffalobo]

Liberty ' s teeth.

[ruthabagah]

Liberty ' s teeth.

[ROFL1] betcha!

[wctriumph]

Liberty ' s teeth.

I have that t-shirt? I wear it every weekend.

[Aloha_Shooter]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/01/09/hezbollah-leader-says-islamic-extremists-insulted-prophet-muhammad-more-than/?intcmp=ob_article_footer_text&intcmp=obnetwork


BEIRUT – The leader of the Lebanese Hezbollah group says Islamic extremists have insulted Islam and the Prophet Muhammad more than those who published satirical cartoons mocking the religion.
Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah ... said Islamic extremists who behead and slaughter people — a reference to the IS group's rampages in Iraq and Syria — have done more harm to Islam than anyone else in history.

[cstone]

If he made that statement in Arabic, I wonder if everyone else around him took a few steps away and started looking furtively around for some heavy hitting brothers from the brotherhood?

If he is sincere, good on him. I would agree with his statement.

[hollohas]

Don't worry, Kerry went brought Jame Taylor on his hugs and kisses tour to make the French feel better.

What has America become?? That's how we respond? With hugs and "you've got a friend"??

[GilpinGuy]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/01/09/hezbollah-leader-says-islamic-extremists-insulted-prophet-muhammad-more-than/?intcmp=ob_article_footer_text&intcmp=obnetwork

Looks like some are starting question if they can actually try to exterminate the rest of the unbelieving world without themselves being exterminated first. I hope so at least.

[Ah Pook]

Always liked R. Crumb, a twisted sort of way.

http://disinfo.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/crumb--505x700.jpg

[Gman]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Odx-XIwrHyc/VLLJFvqSnrI/AAAAAAAANjM/s23mqp8RLBI/s1600/Through%2BPlaying%2Bor%2BPlaying%2BThrough%2BSm.jp g

My folks sent me this one this morning;

Mind if I play through?
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii123/gmchenry/MindIfIPlayThru.jpg

[Dave]

Former French colonies are having their problems now.

http://news.yahoo.com/niger-protesters-burn-churches-second-day-charlie-riots-143432674.html