View Full Version : Call to action!!! House Bill 1009, House Bill 1049, House Bill 1050
Last Friday, January 16, additional pro-gun legislation was introduced to protect Colorado business owners who respect your right to carry concealed.
House Bill 1127 (http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2015a/csl.nsf/fsbillcont/F0FC216AFB02A13387257DB10065EBAB?Open&file=1127_01.pdf), introduced by state Representative Gordon Klingenshmitt (R-15), would grant immunity from civil liability to places of business which recognize your right to protection and self-defense by respecting your right to carry concealed on the property. This bill has been assigned to the House Committee on State, Veterans and Military Affairs but no hearing date has been set yet.
In addition, three bills which are vital to protecting your Second Amendment rights have been scheduled for their respective committee hearings in early February.
On Monday, February 2, the House Committee on State, Veterans and Military Affairs will hold a hearing at 1:30 P.M. in Room 271 to hear testimony on the following three pro-gun bills, all of which benefit law-abiding gun owners:
House Bill 1009 (http://www.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLICS2015A/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/EC5D2CD33A7C558387257D9000776992?Open&file=1009_01.pdf), introduced by state Representative Steve Humphrey (R-48), would repeal the rights-infringing legislation passed into law during the 2013 legislative session that arbitrarily limits the number of rounds you can use to protect yourself and your family to 15 rounds.
House Bill 1049 (http://www.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLICS2015A/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/E49720CA54168F5A87257D900078059D?Open&file=1049_01.pdf), introduced by state Representative Justin Everett (R-22), would extend the protection and right to self-defense you currently have in your home, to your place of business.
House Bill 1050 (http://www.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLICS2015A/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/5FE417ABE5313F6787257D9000780403?Open&file=1050_01.pdf), introduced by state Representative Janik Joshi (R-16), would repeal the ineffective and rights-infringing private transfer background check law that passed during the 2013 legislative session.
Please call and email members of the House State, Veterans and Military Affairs Committee and urge them to support HB 1009, HB 1049 and HB 1050. These important pro-gun bills are critical to restoring your rights in the Centennial State!
House State, Veterans, and Military Affairs Committee Members:
Representative Su Ryden (D-36), Chairman, Majority Deputy Whip
(303) 866-2942 (tel:%28303%29%20866-2942)
su.ryden.house@state.co.us
Representative Joe Salazar (D-31), Vice-Chairman
(303) 866-2918 (tel:%28303%29%20866-2918)
joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us
Representative Mike Foote (D-12)
(303) 866-2920 (tel:%28303%29%20866-2920)
mike.foote.house@state.co.us
Representative Steve Humphrey (R-48)
(303) 866-2943 (tel:%28303%29%20866-2943)
rephumphrey48@yahoo.com
Representative Susan Lontine (D-1)
(303) 866-2966 (tel:%28303%29%20866-2966)
susan.lontine.house@state.co.us
Representative Patrick Neville (R-45)
(303) 866-2948 (tel:%28303%29%20866-2948)
patrick.neville.house@state.co.us
Representative Dianne Primavera (D-33)
(303) 866-4667 (tel:%28303%29%20866-4667)
dianne.primavera.house@state.co.us
Representative Jack Tate (R-37)
(303) 866-5510 (tel:%28303%29%20866-5510)
jack.tate.house@state.co.us
Representative Dan Thurlow (R-55)
(303) 866-3068 (tel:%28303%29%20866-3068)
danthurlow55@gmail.com
Representative Max Tyler (D-23)
(303) 866-2951 (tel:%28303%29%20866-2951)
max@maxtyler.us
Representative Yeulin Willett (R-54)
(303) 866-2583 (tel:%28303%29%20866-2583)
yeulin.willett.house@state.co.us
Ryden is not a supporter and just won another term. Gonna be tough with her. How is she chairmen?
PugnacAutMortem
01-22-2015, 12:57
Here's hoping for something good to happen, but these bills have less than 0.000000001% of making to the floor, let alone getting passed. And even if they happen to get passed in both houses by some miracle, Hick will pocket veto the ever-loving shit out of them. The GOP is going to need total control of both houses and the governorship if they ever want to repeal any of this gun legislation.
Circuits
01-22-2015, 13:07
Ryden is not a supporter and just won another term. Gonna be tough with her. How is she chairmen?
Dims hung on to the house, and when you run the house you get to make the committee assignments, so all the chairpersons are your loyal soldiers, and you make sure your party has the chair and a majority in every committee.
Dims hung on to the house, and when you run the house you get to make the committee assignments, so all the chairpersons are your loyal soldiers, and you make sure your party has the chair and a majority in every committee.
Gun owners really are their own worst enemy.
Here's hoping for something good to happen, but these bills have less than 0.000000001% of making to the floor, let alone getting passed. And even if they happen to get passed in both houses by some miracle, Hick will pocket veto the ever-loving shit out of them. The GOP is going to need total control of both houses and the governorship if they ever want to repeal any of this gun legislation.
Point of fact: There is no "pocket veto" in Colorado. If by some miracle this legislation makes it to Hick's desk, he either has to sign them into law immediately, explicitly veto them, or they become law without his signature in 10 days.
Bitter Clinger
01-23-2015, 12:13
I thought if you owned a business you could carry there?
I thought if you owned a business you could carry there?
You can, if you are in control of the property. The Make My Day law doesn't apply outside of the home though.
PugnacAutMortem
01-23-2015, 21:32
Point of fact: There is no "pocket veto" in Colorado. If by some miracle this legislation makes it to Hick's desk, he either has to sign them into law immediately, explicitly veto them, or they become law without his signature in 10 days.
I was unaware of that. I figured that would be his choice though if it were an option because its the easiest way to weasel out of going on the record.
Still, no reason not to do what mahkcod asks and contact these folks. Push them, if they just kill it in committee then the D's in that list have to start feeling vulnerable.
Good info that I was unaware of, that the house controls all the committee heads.
Zundfolge
01-24-2015, 13:09
Still, no reason not to do what mahkcod asks and contact these folks. Push them, if they just kill it in committee then the D's in that list have to start feeling vulnerable.
Good info that I was unaware of, that the house controls all the committee heads.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease ... I agree that these repeals are a long shot at best, but by making our voices heard we do two things. 1) Keep the issue alive in in the forefront and 2) make the Dems nervous ... make them realize that their gun laws are extremely unpopular so that they don't try to pass more of them and so that some of them (either vulnerable ones or the unicorn like "Moderate Democrats") decide that it would be better for their continued employment to stop fighting us (and maybe even join us).
Most of all our silence encourages the antis.
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150127/colorado-defend-your-rights-in-denver-next-week
Okay do/should we show up in force for this? Is there going to be public comment? What can I do to help? More importantly what are YOU doing to help?
wctriumph
01-29-2015, 15:46
I have emailed and called my rep's. Have not received even a canned reply from any of them. I will do it again tomorrow as well.
I would be willing to go to Denver for the day to show support if anyone from NorCO is going and can give me a ride. I can chip in a little for gas.
SenHolbert
01-29-2015, 22:17
wctriumph,
Consider asking the member how he/she intends to vote. Almost all advocacy contacts (email, phone, mail, etc) simply tells us how the advocate wants us to vote (for or against). Compiling lists of those who are for or against is data collection for the legislator.
When it comes to professional advocates (lobbyists), they almost always ask us "Are you familiar with (Bill Title and Name)?" If so, then they'll ask, "How do you intend to vote?" That's all 100% OK. In Colorado, there are no "present" votes. Our options are "Yes" or "No." If a legislator isn't there to vote, it's either "Excused or "Absent." Asking us "how will you vote?" generally leads to three options: Support (Yes) Oppose (No) or Undecided. Thank those who agree with you, make note of those who are opposed, and inform/educate any who are undecided.
Most advocacy is based on sheer volume. When it comes to the Second Amendment, there isn't much room to be undecided. Asking "how will you vote" might generate more response. Form emails or letters don't mean much. A clear answer to a direct question is valuable.
Some people get offended when I encourage them to ask "how will you vote?" It isn't an attempt to stifle input. It isn't rudeness. It IS an effective and efficient way to learn what YOU need to know. If we already agree, then there's no need to educate or convince. We we disagree, then educating or convincing isn't likely to succeed in changing the other person's opinion. If the legislator is undecided, then educate, inform, convince! Asking is empowering. Answering is way more fun and productive.
Hope this helps.
hurley842002
01-29-2015, 22:27
wctriumph,
Consider asking the member how he/she intends to vote. Almost all advocacy contacts (email, phone, mail, etc) simply tells us how the advocate wants us to vote (for or against). Compiling lists of those who are for or against is data collection for the legislator.
When it comes to professional advocates (lobbyists), they almost always ask us "Are you familiar with (Bill Title and Name)?" If so, then they'll ask, "How do you intend to vote?" That's all 100% OK. In Colorado, there are no "present" votes. Our options are "Yes" or "No." If a legislator isn't there to vote, it's either "Excused or "Absent." Asking us "how will you vote?" generally leads to three options: Support (Yes) Oppose (No) or Undecided. Thank those who agree with you, make note of those who are opposed, and inform/educate any who are undecided.
Most advocacy is based on sheer volume. When it comes to the Second Amendment, there isn't much room to be undecided. Asking "how will you vote" might generate more response. Form emails or letters don't mean much. A clear answer to a direct question is valuable.
Some people get offended when I encourage them to ask "how will you vote?" It isn't an attempt to stifle input. It isn't rudeness. It IS an effective and efficient way to learn what YOU need to know. If we already agree, then there's no need to educate or convince. We we disagree, then educating or convincing isn't likely to succeed in changing the other person's opinion. If the legislator is undecided, then educate, inform, convince! Asking is empowering. Answering is way more fun and productive.
Hope this helps.
Thanks a lot for the info Senator.
I know it's been said before, but the fact that you log onto this forum and give input, share info etc, really speaks volume. You truly know what working for the constituents is all about.
I second that. Thank you, Senator!
Unfortunately Ds out number Rs by one in each committee. Would love to see all of these pass through and Hick sign off on them but... yeah I dont even know what else to say here. Thanks for the effort Senator.
I just learned something. Thank you Senator!
boomerhc9
01-30-2015, 00:46
Unfortunately Ds out number Rs by one in each committee. Thanks for the effort Senator.
This just means the mission is more focused. It means the mission is to convince the few who are undecided that they should vote to repeal. It means we only need to convince 2 undecided senators or reps. in each committee. More would be better in the case of democrats voting to repeal, or republicans voting to ban.
That's 4 people minimum that need to be convinced.
I thought it was the whip's job to work to convince undecided senators or representatives to vote one way or the other. Who is that guy in your committee Senator?
Bitter Clinger
01-30-2015, 09:00
Mandy connell just tasked me with finding out which dems we need to convince to flip. What are their names? She said she will put it on her blog and broadcast it as well. It was a free for all friday so I figured I would call her to help spread the message!
ETA: Nevermind found it.
mtnrider
01-30-2015, 09:09
Can you post the names and contact number of the ones we need to concentrate on?
Bitter Clinger
01-30-2015, 09:20
Its in the other thread lol
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/145335-Call-to-action!!!-House-Bill-1009-House-Bill-1049-House-Bill-1050
My problem is I live in DougCo. As far as I know DougCo reps aren't the ones needing convincing. It's mostly the people inside the 470 area and they are not listening to me when I tell them I am not going to vote for them unless they approve of the pro-2A bills.
SenHolbert
02-01-2015, 09:21
Please consider that the debate WILL continue beyond Monday, February 2. In the words of the wise Yoda, "There is another."
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27435754/gun-bills-return-colorado-capitol-but-this-time
Wait for the Senate version of the "mag ban" repeal to be introduced, which should occur in the next week or so. That timing is completely up to Senate President Cadman. When that happens, take note of the number and political diversity of sponsors and co-sponsors in the Senate and House. From there, please don't expend time and energy to "strongly urge" anyone who is already a co-sponsor to support the bill… we/they already DO. Focus resources on determining who is dedicated to voting against the bill and… most importantly… who might yet be undecided. I can't do that work for you. I can, however, point to how you - friends - can be more effective. If the "mag ban" is repealed, then it must be accomplished with support of one House Democrat on the committee(s) to which the bill would be assigned, at least two House Democrats on the floor, and the one Democrat Governor. A challenge? Yes. Impossible? No.
"To a new birth of freedom."
SenHolbert
02-01-2015, 10:19
"My problem is I live in DougCo." - KAPA
Umm… where, exactly, is the problem? ;-)
I thank God that we do, KAPA.
I'm planning on going. I'm not going to be happy if those that need convincing are to busy eating hamburgers like last time.
My favorite was playing games on thier iPad.
I'm planning on going. I'm not going to be happy if those that need convincing are to busy eating hamburgers like last time.
They were "doing research". So intense that they were laughing and shoeing it to others so they could laugh too. I hope they were laughing at the reasons for banning guns and not the constitution. But I have my doubts. About everything they say.
http://www.9news.com/story/news/local/politics/2015/02/02/gun-day-at-the-capitol/22747021/
It's not like we can change anything but, is anybody planning on attending?
StagLefty
02-02-2015, 13:46
Is this being broadcast on the internet ? I can't seem to find anything on it.
mtnrider
02-02-2015, 13:56
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/145679-Monday-February-2-Gun-Rights-Bills-Being-Heard-in-Colorado
Audio http://coloradoga.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=23&event_id=2179
Audio http://coloradoga.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=23&event_id=2179
Long and painful listening.
mtnrider
02-02-2015, 18:10
Long and painful listening.
I'm guessing that means it's not going well?
Given the make up of the committee, it was going to be a tough sell at any rate. The Senate bill may get a better hearing, but the number of "victims of gun violence" testifying before the House committee gets tiresome to listen to. There have not been many questions from members of the committee, which may mean nothing, but I tend to believe that many members already have a good idea on how they will be voting.
I like to be optimistic, but realistically I'm expecting a party line vote.
Given the make up of the committee, it was going to be a tough sell at any rate. The Senate bill may get a better hearing, but the number of "victims of people violence" testifying before the House committee gets tiresome to listen to. There have not been many questions from members of the committee, which may mean nothing, but I tend to believe that many members already have a good idea on how they will be voting.
I like to be optimistic, but realistically I'm expecting a party line vote.
FIFY
Of course, WE all know a gun cannot commit a violent act on its own.
On the background check concept, the attorney representing the sheriff's, David Kopel has an interesting position. He is not arguing against background checks but is focused on the only method for performing the background check is forcing sellers/buyers to utilize FFLs for the transaction.
How would members here feel about a system where any private citizen of Colorado could access CBI data for the limited purpose of determining whether a private Colorado citizen is eligible to purchase and possess a firearm before making the FTF transaction? This could be done either on-line or via telephone.
Kopel provides two suggestions: 72 hour loan periods without requiring a background check, and removing FFLs from the process of providing background checks for private transactions. Kopel mentioned that anyone who has already been through the CCW process should be exempt from the lesser background checks for private transfers.
I would almost expect that there will be some types of revision of the current background check process. I think it is far too early to predict what those revisions might look like.
FIFY
Of course, WE all know a gun cannot commit a violent act on its own.
I placed it in quotes because this is how many of the people testifying characterize themselves. I sympathize with the victims of crimes. I do not agree with many of their methods for addressing the crimes they are victims of.
interested as well what happened
Heard HB 1127 (civil liability) got struck down in committee
mtnrider
02-02-2015, 21:10
1127 (concealed carry liability) and 1050 (BGC) both got voted to postpone indefinitely. Nothing on the mag limit yet.
http://www.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLICS2015A/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/F0FC216AFB02A13387257DB10065EBAB?Open&file=1127_01.pdf
http://www.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLICS2015A/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/5FE417ABE5313F6787257D9000780403?Open&file=1050_01.pdf
mtnrider
02-02-2015, 22:48
And mag limit is dead in the house....
http://www.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLICS2015A/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/EC5D2CD33A7C558387257D9000776992?Open&file=1009_01.pdf
I'm disappointed to say the least. Our government has shown a real disregard for the laws and the will of the people. We need to up our game.
boomerhc9
02-03-2015, 02:43
recall all of them. they step down and choose another D, recall them. Repeat.
Bitter Clinger
02-03-2015, 08:02
Well ain't that some bullshit
Colorado isn't going back anytime soon, unfortunately. Our weed laws and craft beer are magnets for hordes of the wrong political affiliation. The reps don't actually listen, they just play the game. Hick rubbed it in our faces and our state wouldn't vote him out. This isn't Colorado anymore.
mtnrider
02-03-2015, 09:12
Colorado isn't going back anytime soon, unfortunately. Our weed laws and craft beer are magnets for hordes of the wrong political affiliation. The reps don't actually listen, they just play the game. Hick rubbed it in our faces and our state wouldn't vote him out. This isn't Colorado anymore.
^ Yep. Between the Pot and the anti-freedom laws we are already making our plans to move out of here within the next few years. Colorado is done and we are done with Colorado. Not a place I want to raise my family in any more. This state had the chance to fix this in the last election and they blew it. Everything that was gained in the recall elections was pissed away. Such a waste.
Tyranny is usually thought of as cruel and oppressive, and it often is, but the original definition of the term was rule by persons who lack legitimacy, whether they be malign or benevolent. Historically, benign tyrannies have tended to be insecure, and to try to maintain their power by becoming increasingly oppressive. Therefore, rule that initially seems benign is inherently dangerous, and the only security is to maintain legitimacy — an unbroken accountability to the people through the framework of a written constitution that provides for election of key officials and the division of powers among branches and officials in a way that avoids concentration of powers in the hands of a few persons who might then abuse those powers. Tyranny is an important phenomenon that operates by principles by which it can be recognized in its early emerging stages, and, if the people are vigilant, prepared, and committed to liberty, countered before it becomes entrenched.
http://www.constitution.org/tyr/prin_tyr.htm
Keep in mind, all of these bills have counterparts in the Senate, which will likely make it out of committee and on to the floor. These have a much better chance(albeit small) of making it to Hick's desk.
DeusExMachina
02-03-2015, 10:49
Dan Thurlow, Republican of district 55 (Mesa county) voted against the "shall sign" bill for NFA items. If you are a constituent, please remind him of his job.
Keep in mind, all of these bills have counterparts in the Senate, which will likely make it out of committee and on to the floor. These have a much better chance(albeit small) of making it to Hick's desk.
No, they have no chance. The bills will be assigned to the Speaker's kill committee the same as the house bills. The state legislature doesn't have a Rules committee, but both the Speaker of the House and President of the Senate stack one committee for a favorable vote, which is their kill committee. Not one pro gun bill will make it to the House floor this session or next...end of story,
I find it pathetic that people are blaming pot and beer. These are usually the same people who find every excuse in the book to NOT support a proposed bill. Grow up.
We are our own worst enemy and every year that passes I'm continually amazed at how we invest more time to shoot ourselves in the foot as a group than we do fighting for our rights.
Because of this, nothing will change in our favor and things will continue to get worse. They anti-2A crowd is focused on one goal: taking our guns. The pro-2A crowd can't decide on the word 'if' or 'or' in a specific sentence of a single bill. Sheesh.
Our approach should be a rabid support of any and ALL things pro-2A but we have too many people that fancy themselves geniuses that are quick to prove that fact 'finding' faults that don't exist.
I find it pathetic that people are blaming pot and beer. These are usually the same people who find every excuse in the book to NOT support a proposed bill. Grow up.
I'm not blaming pot and beer but that attraction generally doesn't bring in very pro-2a people. I know that's a general statement and not always true so yes, take it with a grain of salt.
17% of the voters in the last CO election were in the age bracket of 18-34. 2.5% higher than the next bracket of 35-44. That 17% is up 1.5% from 2010 while all other brackets (minus 65+) fell. The millennials are getting involved in voting due to Obama and his push when he first ran. It's good to have more people involved but I don't see THAT many millennials concerned with 2A rights, do you? Maybe I'm wrong but being 30 years old, I have a facebook circle that is made of of people in the 25-35 year old bracket, for the most part. I'd say that I see more posts concerned with beer/football/weed growing/socially responsible/etc than guns and gun rights. I've been called ancient, just spewing the rhetoric that my mom and dad told me to say, and told that there is such a thing as free lunch. Yes, by someone in the above mentioned age bracket.
So yes, I will continue my push for 2A rights. But judging off what I've seen, the hope is slim. We have a governer that wouldn't put a convicted killer to death. He even said he'd give full amnesty if he didn't win the election. Blatantly said he didn't even read up on the laws he signed into force and laughed about it. Yet what happened....nothing. As a state, how do we not vote him out based on principle (let alone trampling on our 2A rights) after that? That is where my dismay comes from. Yes, more recalls. More pounding the pavement. But I'm telling you, we're not having the right influx of people to help turn this ship around going forward.
Does that mean I refuse to "grow up", no. I still support our 2A in every way I can. I'm just concerned for the trend I'm seeing.
mtnrider
02-03-2015, 13:59
I find it pathetic that people are blaming pot and beer. These are usually the same people who find every excuse in the book to NOT support a proposed bill. Grow up.
I am Not blaming this "on" the pot. But pot is a BIG reason the wife and I are deciding to leave this state. It's not something I want my kids growing up thinking it is okay to use. I grew up around it, seen what it has done to several of my good friends first hand. Don't want to be a part of it. End of story.
I'm not blaming pot and beer but that attraction generally doesn't bring in very pro-2a people. I know that's a general statement and not always true so yes, take it with a grain of salt.
17% of the voters in the last CO election were in the age bracket of 18-34. 2.5% higher than the next bracket of 35-44. That 17% is up 1.5% from 2010 while all other brackets (minus 65+) fell. The millennials are getting involved in voting due to Obama and his push when he first ran. It's good to have more people involved but I don't see THAT many millennials concerned with 2A rights, do you? Maybe I'm wrong but being 30 years old, I have a facebook circle that is made of of people in the 25-35 year old bracket, for the most part. I'd say that I see more posts concerned with beer/football/weed growing/socially responsible/etc than guns and gun rights. I've been called ancient, just spewing the rhetoric that my mom and dad told me to say, and told that there is such a thing as free lunch. Yes, by someone in the above mentioned age bracket.
So yes, I will continue my push for 2A rights. But judging off what I've seen, the hope is slim. We have a governer that wouldn't put a convicted killer to death. He even said he'd give full amnesty if he didn't win the election. Blatantly said he didn't even read up on the laws he signed into force and laughed about it. Yet what happened....nothing. As a state, how do we not vote him out based on principle (let alone trampling on our 2A rights) after that? That is where my dismay comes from. Yes, more recalls. More pounding the pavement. But I'm telling you, we're not having the right influx of people to help turn this ship around going forward.
Does that mean I refuse to "grow up", no. I still support our 2A in every way I can. I'm just concerned for the trend I'm seeing.
People looking for excuses as to why we lost a chunk of our freedoms a couple of years ago. People who are focused on getting them back and LOT more see those who partake in smoking pot as those who appreciate a society where you are allowed to make your own choices, right or wrong, and live with those. The people who continue seeing those who smoke pot as the enemy are part of the problem. Continue alienating a large segment of the populace and then wonder why your freedoms are taken away largely by a group who has no reason to do otherwise. Smart people would reach out to those people and use this new relaxation of pot laws as an example of how working together for a common Liberty-loving goal is a good thing for everyone involved save for the government.
The reason mellenials don't care as much about 2A rights is because a bunch of old white guys who never do anything wrong preach to them all the time about how evil smoking pot is.
The pro-2A community is so busy preaching about freedoms while trying to take them from others that it gets difficult for those on the outside looking in to see anything other than a two-faced group of self-righteous bigots. I'm ashamed to be lumped in with a group of so narrow minded people but it's a requirement to support 2A rights. Just like I can't stand what the NRA has become but it's a necessary evil. Maybe along those lines we should make more of an effort to reach out to those who also love freedom even if their subject matter is different than ours. Hell, if you can't find it in your heart to be big enough to do that at least stop blaming them and calling them names.
I am Not blaming this "on" the pot. But pot is a BIG reason the wife and I are deciding to leave this state. It's not something I want my kids growing up thinking it is okay to use. I grew up around it, seen what it has done to several of my good friends first hand. Don't want to be a part of it. End of story.
So you need the government to tell your kids what's right and wrong?
http://giant.gfycat.com/PrestigiousGargantuanCrownofthornsstarfish.gif
Do you do EVERYTHING that is is legal or do you make your own mind up on those? Cigarettes are legal so do you smoke and teach your kids the value of smoking? Legislating morality with things like the failed war on drugs needs to stop. Now.
mtnrider
02-03-2015, 14:26
So you need the government to tell your kids what's right and wrong?
Nope they know right from wrong, just don't want them surrounded by a bunch of idiots.
Nope they know right from wrong, just don't want them surrounded by a bunch of idiots.
You better buy an island somewhere and keep them sheltered from reality then because, brace yourself, they're already surrounded by idiots.
I noticed you skipped over the smoking questions. Convenient.
HoneyBadger
02-03-2015, 14:43
As a state, how do we not vote him out based on principle after that?
Principle? What's that? Obama didn't say I needed principles and my parents weren't any help when I asked about them. [Dunno]
Looking at WY mtns, MT, and ID. Got a killer pc of 2+ acres HUGE shop with floor heat, 200amp service 10' x 10' doors. Worlds greatest water 98% pure. So make me an offer.
I am Not blaming this "on" the pot. But pot is a BIG reason the wife and I are deciding to leave this state. It's not something I want my kids growing up thinking it is okay to use. I grew up around it, seen what it has done to several of my good friends first hand. Don't want to be a part of it. End of story.
What are your feelings on alcohol which is legal everywhere and has been labeled a larger worldwide killer and threat than even war/violence/guns by the WHO?
I have found that more pot smokers than not are anti big government and are pro personal freedoms. I personaly know several people that own grow operations and retail establishments, they are all pro 2A. For the people that are blaming pot smoking on this get a clue. Libertarians were behind the legalization push and they are also large backers for gun rights, I would even be willing to say more so than many in the Rep party.
I'm all for legalization, but let's be honest.
The dominant strain of weed culture leans heavily to the left, and that includes supporting things like gun control.
I'm all for legalization, but let's be honest.
The dominant strain of weed culture leans heavily to the left, and that includes supporting things like gun control.
You'd be amazed by how many gun people smoke weed. That generalization is why the GOP is losing ground with every election.
I don't smoke weed. I do shoot guns for fun. I don't want those that smoke weed to stop if they are only hurting or helping themselves. What I don't want is their opinion on my guns either through direct action or voting for those that do. I don't think that they know better.
If all potheads think a like. Then someone isn't thinking.
Eggysrun
02-05-2015, 00:06
My libertarian values say legal everything, emphasize PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY with harsh consequences if abused. It's honestly the only way it'll work, look at the "death penalty" you've got people who will die, but spend 10-15 years in prison waiting to be executed. Such a waste, little to no deterant. We are a land of laws, we should be exercising these laws with brutal efficiency.
boomerhc9
02-05-2015, 01:42
If all potheads are having a toke, Then none of them will get up to vote.
Rucker61
02-05-2015, 06:34
If all potheads think a like. Then someone isn't thinking.
If all potheads think alike, then the pizza guy just got here.
You'd be amazed by how many gun people smoke weed. That generalization is why the GOP is losing ground with every election.
I'm not stupid enough to assume that only hippies smoke up, but the casual users aren't the ones who are willing to move to an entirely different state, or change their voting habits, just to have access to legal weed.
Are there republicans who smoke? Sure.
But in the grand scheme of things, on a cultural and political level, they are fundamentally meaningless because they're not part of dominant weed culture.
In that regard, they're no different than the hardcore leftist who owns a gun and claims to get the 2nd Amendment, but continues to vote for Democrats because they like socialized healthcare or gay rights.
Sure they own a gun, but they're deluded if they think that makes them a part of gun culture.
This thread has taken a serious detour. Weed has been endlessly debated in this forum.
I don't smoke weed. I do shoot guns for fun. I don't want those that smoke weed to stop if they are only hurting or helping themselves. What I don't want is their opinion on my guns either through direct action or voting for those that do. I don't think that they know better.
Your problem is that you separate 'pot heads' and 'gun owners' and your assumption is careless and more inaccurate than you realize. The point is that our 'group' is so fast to alienate everyone who isn't a 50 year old white male who has never even received a speeding ticket that our little 'group' has found itself on the outside looking in. The idea is freedom as long as it's freedom for the things WE do. That's idiotic and isn't really freedom at all. No wonder we get ZERO support from anyone who isn't a 50 year old white male.
Freedom is freedom.
This thread has taken a serious detour. Weed has been endlessly debated in this forum.
Agreed. I don't know why there are so many curmudgeons who insist on bringing it up at every opportunity to further make our side look bad.
"My problem is I live in DougCo." - KAPA
Umm… where, exactly, is the problem? ;-)
I thank God that we do, KAPA.
I do, but all those houses on the north side and Castle Rock are being filled with more and more liberals. My point is, reps in Denver aren't listening to outsiders unless I thow Bloomberg style cash at them.
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