7x57 and 8x57 Why ?

[earplug]

7MM bullets would seem to be ballistically better for long range.

I have never seen any information on why the Germans and other nations adopted the 8x57 when the 7x57 was available in 1898

Has anyone ever read why the 8MM was adopted? What did it do better?

[cstone]

My guess would be it had something to do with the powders they had available at the time. Big and slower for a given distance and meeting the pressure they specified for their rifles. This was the tail end of the black powder .68 caliber ball era, and the beginning of the spitzer bullet era. They definitely got a lot of use out of the 8x57 since it was used in both world wars.

[ray1970]

Back then bigger was better. Maybe the 7mm round was known for poor terminal performance on bad guys? Who knows. Could have just been politics involved.

[Wulf202]

7.92x57 was available in 1888

[Zombie Steve]

What did it do better?


Knock the living snot out of flesh and bone with a cup and core bullet.

...and as Cstone mentioned, better suited for the powders available at the time. Even in Lyman 44 (1967), the slowest powder they use is 4831. Without slower burning powders, it most likely wasn't bigger and slower, just bigger. Try loading an overbore cartridge with a medium burn rate powder... you'll see speeds drop dramatically.

[Zombie Steve]

At a glance, the bigger theory is out, but the idea seems right... the original 7x57 was a 175 at 2,300, the 8x57 was 154 at almost 2,900.

Let's not forget we're talking about flat base bullets too... BC wasn't the end all, be all back then.

[Hoser]

The Germans liked 8s. Lots of 8s in a lot of their stuff, everything from 8mm to 88mm ect.

[Zombie Steve]

Fun to say AAAACHT!

[cstone]

Fun to say AAAACHT!

It clears the throat [LOL]

[jreifsch80]

don't forget that the 8mm lent itself well to longer range machinegun performance once they switched back to a heavy bullet again

[spqrzilla]

Long range machine gun performance was important as through WWI, machine gun tactics included indirect fire use.

[davsel]

Because they didn't make a 9x57. [Coffee]

[osok-308]

Because they didn't make a 9x57. [Coffee]

[ROFL1]


I think this is probably the main reason.

[a98kdoc]

Because they didn't make a 9x57.

I think this is probably the main reason.< osok-308

There has almost always been a 9x57 and a 9.3x57 and also an 11x57

The reason for the 7x57 was the push for smaller diameter bullets was the idea of being more modern then the 43 caliber and up black powder of a decade before,
8x57 is a better round with the later 192 grain boat tale pointed bullets then 175 round nose anything. After 1905 the 7x57 loading was 145 grain bullets.

More if you want to know

[a98kdoc]

Long range machine gun performance was important as through WWI, machine gun tactics included indirect fire use.

WW1 was long after the 7x57. It was the french 190 grain and British 174 grain bullets that out ranged the German 154 grain and the US 3006 150 grain loading.
In 1926 the US went to the M1 175 Grain loading the back to the 150 grain M2 Ball for the M1 Garand rifle with a fast burring powder for a lower port pereusser.

[a98kdoc]

Fun to say AAAACHT!

More fun to say sechs esp to the misses.

[spqrzilla]

There were several competing calibers for the Mauser series of rifles, not just 8x57 and 7x57mm. 6.5mm in Scandanavia and the 7.65mm x 53 varients of the Mauser cartridges too in Belgium / Argentina.


WW1 was long after the 7x57. It was the french 190 grain and British 174 grain bullets that out ranged the German 154 grain and the US 3006 150 grain loading.
In 1926 the US went to the M1 175 Grain loading the back to the 150 grain M2 Ball for the M1 Garand rifle with a fast burring powder for a lower port pereusser.

The longer range .30-06 round was problematic when introduced as many Army base ranges safe areas were inadequate with the longer range bullet. That was among the reasons the 150 grain was reintroduced according to Hatcher.