My New 30 Cal. Can

[Big John]

Here's my titanium tubed, freeze plug baffled 30 cal can. Form 1 submitted on 12-14-14, approved on 1-21-15. The wait probably would have been right in the neighborhood of 32 days had x-mas, new years, and MLK had not been in the mix.

I tested with 5.56 subs/supers and this far exceeded my expectations.[WooHoo] It's about 8 1/2 in. long and weighs 23 oz. I have right around $400 into this including the stamp and muzzle brake.

I've got a commercial can in jail right now, but probably won't ever buy another based on the performance of this.

Now to get my 300blk gun running.

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[ray1970]

Nice.

Now please paint it black.

[Coffee]

[Big John]

Nice.

Now please paint it black.

[Coffee]Don't worry, it's not staying raw. Coating was the last thing on my mind when I got everything done[Dance]

[ray1970]

Don't worry, it's not staying raw. Coating was the last thing on my mind when I got everything done[Dance]

Yeah, I figured. Just busting your chops a bit. [Beer]

So, there's just a bunch of standard freeze plugs in there?

[Big John]

Yeah, I figured. Just busting your chops a bit. [Beer]

So, there's just a bunch of standard freeze plugs in there?Yes. Final form at the hole is 60*. Approx. 2"blast chamber. Then baffle. Then 3/4" spacer. Then stacked baffles to fit.

[Great-Kazoo]

Yeah, I figured. Just busting your chops a bit. [Beer]

So, there's just a bunch of standard freeze plugs in there?


Yes the 1.5 stainless Sealed Power units. I figure there's 14 more days [panic] before my F1 is approved. Then all hell breaks loose. John used Ti for the can, I'm using Seamless carbon steel. To say the rounds fired using factory ammo were quiet would be an understatement. Shooting some of those sub's i loaded, the bolt and buffer made more noise ;)
Today we might do a S x S comparison to the factory 223 cans i have. IMO the bang for the buck, is well worth it. I'm not expecting factory compatible Db reduction when my 30 cal is approved. It will be used on a SBR'd AK.

[Big John]

All the info you need is in this (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/434329_The__100_effective_Form1_suppressors__and_o ne_not_so__100_____56k_beware__or_even_2mb_like_me ______.html) thread.

[Great-Kazoo]

Yes. Final form at the hole is 60*. Approx. 2"blast chamber. Then baffle. Then 3/4" spacer. Then stacked baffles to fit.

That's being polite. Cut another one

It was interesting observing the process. Dear ATF [Beer]

[nogaroheli]

Im so intrigued by this! Good work!

[Great-Kazoo]

Im so intrigued by this! Good work!

Once approved i might take a few pics of the process. There's trial & error when forming the plugs, same for spacers, based upon my observing the project. UNFORTUNATELY my ideas and plans for new firearms is officially on HOLD. While waiting on the 1st can, i am putting another list together for 2 more BYO suppressors.
The first is a thread on to adapter, the other 2 will be direct thread units.

[Ropes4u]

Where do you procure the end caps and tube? Excuse my laziness but I cannot read the arfcom article on a phone.

[Great-Kazoo]

Where do you procure the end caps and tube? Excuse my laziness but I cannot read the arfcom article on a phone.

SD tactical or other place mentioned in the arfcom threads. Go home and read it on a pc, tablet or laptop. There's lot's to read. Look for a thread by Weaver. He did his own build and that thread is a synopsis of the others pared down. 3 threads cover almost 200 post. Unfortunately 1/4 of them are of the Sig Brace what did the ATF say, instead of actual input / ideas.

FWIW: It's not illegal to build, fabricate, or machine your own noise reducer. Same as it's not illegal to make a receiver out of an 80% block of Aluminum. So please do not clutter this or my soon to be thread up with hypothetical. It's on arfcon AND Silencertalk. No need to rehash it here.

[Big John]

I got all my stuff from SD Tactical. If you're interested in a titanium tube, it might be best to call Amy @ SD Tac as it's not always listed on their site. The weight savings is huge over the SS.

[Ropes4u]

Nice, looks like I have a project :)

[XC700116]

I think I might have to give this a whirl for my blackout, I'll stick to the professional units for my other purposes, but I've been wanting a less expensive solution for the punkin slinger.

[Great-Kazoo]

Nice, looks like I have a project :)


I think I might have to give this a whirl for my blackout, I'll stick to the professional units for my other purposes, but I've been wanting a less expensive solution for the punkin slinger.


Neither one of you, or those reading will be disappointed. It's impossible to maintain / get the consistent tolerances a mfg does. Yet the results are impressive. I "believe" based on what i heard & witnessed, this can will be a 300 blk performer. Hurry up approval, there's a few AK's waiting. Doing our part for the environment, of course

[Big John]

Neither one of you, or those reading will be disappointed. It's impossible to maintain / get the consistent tolerances a mfg does. Yet the results are impressive. I "believe" based on what i heard & witnessed, this can will be a 300 blk performer. Hurry up approval, there's a few AK's waiting. Doing our part for the environment, of courseI shot my can side by side with a commercial can. The commercial was quieter, but the difference was so negligible that you really had to put your ears to it to hear the difference.

I have a commercial can in jail. If I weren't so far into the wait, I'd cancel that order and make three of these. I hope to have my 300blk running by next weekend. I expect that this can will work awesome with that.

[ray1970]

This thread has my wheels turning as well. The thought of building my own suppressor had never even crossed my mind.

[jmg8550]

Wonder how much POI shift there is with these cans.

[Great-Kazoo]

Wonder how much POI shift there is with these cans.

That's the $100 ?. However IF one Form 1's a can for dedicated use, that no longer becomes an issue.
After a real long read, it seems that question is in flux. Depending on ammo, dia of baffle hole, loose or tight stack. Some report 2 - 5 POI shift, others say it's unacceptable. Remember this is something one builds at home, not in a shop where suppressors are the business, R&D money is available etc.

[XC700116]

That's the $100 ?. However IF one Form 1's a can for dedicated use, that no longer becomes an issue.
After a real long read, it seems that question is in flux. Depending on ammo, dia of baffle hole, loose or tight stack. Some report 2 - 5 POI shift, others say it's unacceptable. Remember this is something one builds at home, not in a shop where suppressors are the business, R&D money is available etc.

Exactly, I'm actually thinking about essentially making it an integral on a short barreled 300 BO upper. Weld it all in place so it's only 1 stamp, no muss no fuss. 8.5" barrel, and 8.5" can all welded together, with a 15" hand-guard would make a pretty sweet setup all and all.

Gonna have to think this one over a bit, Form 1 the can, build and test on my 16" blackout, and if I'm happy with it, get the 8.5" barrel and weld it up.

[JohnnyEgo]

The novelty factor of being able to say you build your own can seems well worth the price. Congrats on your build, John. Looks awesome, and has inspired me to build one of my own. If I do, I'll be painting mine bright red so that I will have plenty of opportunity to explain that I built it myself. And I'll be able to find it in a field if the POI shift really sucks or baffle strikes make me so mad I throw it in a random direction.

[Big John]

The novelty factor of being able to say you build your own can seems well worth the price. Congrats on your build, John. Looks awesome, and has inspired me to build one of my own. If I do, I'll be painting mine bright red so that I will have plenty of opportunity to explain that I built it myself. And I'll be able to find it in a field if the POI shift really sucks or baffle strikes make me so mad I throw it in a random direction.Haha... POI is next on the testing list as we've only been testing function so far. Let's get together and do some shooting and we'll see whether this thing is a viable can or a boomerang,[LOL] You, Mr. Ego, have a gun that I am dying to shoot.

[encorehunter]

Out of curiosity on the weight, did you go with steel end caps? Im also interested in the POI shift. My main concern would be grouping. I am thinking this would be a great supressor for teaching my young one to shoot.

[Big John]

Out of curiosity on the weight, did you go with steel end caps? Im also interested in the POI shift. My main concern would be grouping. I am thinking this would be a great supressor for teaching my young one to shoot.Yup. Titanium tube, steel end caps, SS spacer, freeze plugs, and SD Tac muzzle brake. I'd say that for your needs the titanium tube is a must. The steel tubes are heavy.

I'm really not worried about shift. Things always have a way of working out.

[Great-Kazoo]

Yup. Titanium tube, steel end caps, SS spacer, freeze plugs, and SD Tac muzzle brake. I'd say that for your needs the titanium tube is a must. The steel tubes are heavy.

I'm really not worried about shift. Things always have a way of working out.

Like another 1.2lbs makes that much difference. meow...........

[HoneyBadger]

All the info you need is in this (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/434329_The__100_effective_Form1_suppressors__and_o ne_not_so__100_____56k_beware__or_even_2mb_like_me ______.html) thread.
Holy 94 pages, Batman!

I guess I'll start reading... :)

[Big John]

8.5" 300BLK pistol. Gun porn!

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[XC700116]

If you don't mind, trying to figure out the exact outside diameter of the end caps, any chance you could measure them and post it up?

Trying to decide on a rail if I jump into the 8.5" 300 BO build, with a home brew can. I currently have a 15" Troy Alpha on my 16" and there's no way it'll clear a can so I'll need a new rail.

[Great-Kazoo]

If you don't mind, trying to figure out the exact outside diameter of the end caps, any chance you could measure them and post it up?

Trying to decide on a rail if I jump into the 8.5" 300 BO build, with a home brew can. I currently have a 15" Troy Alpha on my 16" and there's no way it'll clear a can so I'll need a new rail.


EXACT DIA is 1.555.3 =/- .4 The can is same dia. They advertise as a 1.50 OD unit.

[Big John]

I had to give my Samson rail some love from the grinder to get it to fit. I'm extremely happy with it. I'm going to the range tomorrow to do some sighting an POI checks.

[HoneyBadger]

Man, if I wasn't moving to CA, I would love to jump on this. I'm sure this (or something better) will still be around in 3 years, right? [Dunno]

[02ducky]

Man, if I wasn't moving to CA, I would love to jump on this. I'm sure this (or something better) will still be around in 3 years, right? [Dunno]


Cali? Oh man that sucks ass. Sorry back on track.

[SouthPaw]

I'll play. Kazoo, expect a call from me soon so we discuss a few things. At least I'll have a can to use while my Omega is in jail.

[Big John]

I went to the indoor range today since the weather kinda sucked. I fired both 223 and 300blk supers and saw little to no POI shift. Take this for what you will being it was at a short distance. I HAVE to get to the outdoor range some time next week Hopefully I'll have better info afterward. Based on what I've seen in the short time I've had this, I could not be happier with it.

[Great-Kazoo]

Man, if I wasn't moving to CA, I would love to jump on this. I'm sure this (or something better) will still be around in 3 years, right? [Dunno]

Buy the parts now. This way IF a few Dear ATF letters get written, something gets thrown in the gears. You'll have the main items.

[BuffCyclist]

This is very interesting... thanks for posting and it looks like you have a nice new toy!

Other than Ti being lighter than SS (at the added cost), are there any benefits of choosing one over the other? Such as, longevity, cleaning routines, such as you can use a solvent on one easier than the other?

This would be an excellent way for me to utilize the services of that laser engraver friend that I now have...

[Big John]

This is very interesting... thanks for posting and it looks like you have a nice new toy!

Other than Ti being lighter than SS (at the added cost), are there any benefits of choosing one over the other? Such as, longevity, cleaning routines, such as you can use a solvent on one easier than the other?

This would be an excellent way for me to utilize the services of that laser engraver friend that I now have...The weight savings is by far the best reason that I know of. I'm at 23 oz using more baffles than most. None of them clipped. Nothing other than the Ti done for weight savings. Another guy on this forum is waiting on his form 1 to build an 8" stainless 30 cal and I guarantee he's gonna come in well over 30 oz. If it doesn't work he can surely beat the shit outta someone with it. Or pound nails... I'mma call it the Hi-Point can.[LOL]

A hand engraver works fine on the Ti. If you have access to a pro that's even better. Everyone makes fun of my engraving job as it looks like a wrote a short story on my can. Doesn't bother me one bit as it falls in line with my "home made" work. I think it will also mean something when I'm able to hand it down to my son.

[TheBelly]

This is very interesting... thanks for posting and it looks like you have a nice new toy!

Other than Ti being lighter than SS (at the added cost), are there any benefits of choosing one over the other? Such as, longevity, cleaning routines, such as you can use a solvent on one easier than the other?

This would be an excellent way for me to utilize the services of that laser engraver friend that I now have...

The stress/break points on steel are farther apart than they are in titanium. That's why is use an all steel (inconel) for my 10.5" gun carbine blaster, but a titanium can for my precision guns. You can even get one that has an aluminum tube and steel baffles....

[BuffCyclist]

^^ Thanks, that is what I was wondering. I remember reading about a chemical mix that is like vinegar and baking soda or something that people soak their suppressors/baffles in. I know it is corrosive on aluminum (or some cans) but not all. Wasn't sure if that applied here.

With regards to engraving, is it required to give it a serial number? Also, is there any restrictions to what size font? The laser engraver can print very small...

[Great-Kazoo]

^^ Thanks, that is what I was wondering. I remember reading about a chemical mix that is like vinegar and baking soda or something that people soak their suppressors/baffles in. I know it is corrosive on aluminum (or some cans) but not all. Wasn't sure if that applied here.

With regards to engraving, is it required to give it a serial number? YES

Also, is there any restrictions to what size font? The laser engraver can print very small... REGARDING SIZE & DEPTH

In before the Sig Brace Letter writers ;)

The internet is your friend. The ATF NFA web site has all the info you need regarding NFA items, do's, don'ts etc.

http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms/firearms-industry/national-firearms-act

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html




http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2010/03/batfe-engraving-requirements-f.html

The above mentioned information must be engraved, casted, stamped (impressing) or otherwise conspicuously placed or caused to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size of the Serial number shall be no smaller than 1/16 inch.

[BuffCyclist]

Oh man I forgot, how does this affect my signature pistol brace? Am I still allowed to shoulder it?

[Peep]

[Great-Kazoo]

Oh man I forgot, how does this affect my signature pistol brace? Am I still allowed to shoulder it?

[Peep]

left or right shouldering? May we see a pic of you shouldering it in a way the feds may or may not give a favorable reply to.

[HoneyBadger]

left or right shouldering? May we see a pic of you shouldering it in a way the feds may or may not give a favorable reply to.

If by "favorable reply" you mean "kicking your door down and shooting your dog", then Yeah! Post a picture!

[Ropes4u]

I don't suppose I can buy baffles pre punched? Someone should have a baffle punching party so I don't have to buy a press...

[HoneyBadger]

I don't suppose I can buy baffles pre punched? Someone should have a baffle punching party so I don't have to buy a press...
From what I read, it looks like you can "press" them in a vice, which you can get super cheap if you don't already have one.



unrelated.. Where the heck do you buy a 45 or 60 degree cone for shaping the baffles?

[Great-Kazoo]

I don't suppose I can buy baffles pre punched? Someone should have a baffle punching party so I don't have to buy a press...

No you cannot. UNLESS you buy the tube, then end caps, after approval. From watching vids, reading every single post (300+) as of yesterday. It's a minor task among many.

Don't even go there.


From what I read, it looks like you can "press" them in a vice, which you can get super cheap if you don't already have one.QUOTE]

unrelated.. Where the heck do you buy a 45 or 60 degree cone for shaping the baffles?

No. Since the FP's are drilled prior to forming them in to baffles. I read a few did pre forming then drilled. BUT they ended up with more off center holes than planned.

People are using steering wheel puller ends, ball bearings, lathe dead center's etc. READ the threads and decide what works for you.
Remember the $100 suppressor thread was done buy a guy with BASIC hand tools. It morphed in to 2 other threads by people building better mouse traps. Some of those have (by their own word) invested more then a commercial can would have cost.
Had they stuck to the basics they would have also ended up with as $100~suppressor .


After my approval (31 days and counting) is done. I might rent out the forming / centering tool. It's a tool like any other. Providing you and you alone form your baffles.

[Ropes4u]

Bummer about the baffle party but onward we go..

[Big John]

I finally got the gun to 100 yards today. Of course the wind kicked up but here's what I got. This is a mix of can and no can.

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[Big John]

I ran the can all day at the three gun match and if there's any POI shift, I certainly ain't seeing it. There was no range finder but I know several targets were pushing the 300yd mark or so. Also, my rifle was mainly sighted in without the can. I'm extremely happy with this thing and damn glad I did it.

[encorehunter]

Well, I'm gonna blame you for making me spend money. I ordered two Ti sets yesterday, now to send in my paperwork today. Thank you for openig up another avenue for us to get into the nfa game.

[Big John]

Well, I'm gonna blame you for making me spend money. I ordered two Ti sets yesterday, now to send in my paperwork today. Thank you for openig up another avenue for us to get into the nfa game.I certainly can't take credit for pioneering this. That said, I'll take the blame for the smile on your face when you're done. I'm very confident you'll be happy you stepped up to the plate on this. Keep us posted on your progress.