$82,000/year to live comfortably in Denver.

[Dave_L]

According to a new "study":

http://m.bizjournals.com/denver/morning_call/2015/01/how-does-denver-rank-among-richest-u-s-cities.html?r=full

It doesn't say what "comfortably" means but Im curious as to your thoughts on what it takes? Is this just more media push to encourage minimum wage increase, wealth gap, etc? To me, $82,000 sounds a bit high depending on how we're defining comfortable but I also don't have a family yet. Just the wife and 2 dogs.

I define comfortable as a roof over your head, food on the table, bills paid and putting some into savings each month. It doesn't mean fully loaded cable tv, the newest tv/phones/cars/clothes/etc.

[Dave]

In other articles I have seen they put it at 75k as a nationwide average for a family of 4 to live as middle class. The parameters usually set for that is food, car, utilities, bills all payable each month and have extra for savings, dining out a few times and a vacation each year. They usually assume you're eating better than ramen and mac and cheese 3 meals a day every day, not driving a 1984 Ford Escort and living in a neighborhood that is middle class and not in a van down by the river.

[hurley842002]

I don't know about this particular study, but every time I see a "study" on cost of living, cost of rent, etc. they are pulling their stats from folks living right in or near downtown, of course you'd need $82k a year to live there. How about we include stats from the DIA area where more "normal" people live.

[Batteriesnare]

Sounds about right to me, especially with how debt laden and broke everybody is. If you have:

$1500 housing payment (rent/mortgage assuming $250k property - this is probably low for "comfortable" in Denver)
$500 health insurance (using my wife and I as examples - mid 20s - thanks BHO and obviously much higher if you have kids)
$400 car payment 1
$300 car payment 2
$350 student loan payment (I realize not everyone has this, but most folks my age making 82K gross probably do)
$300 food budget
$300 gas budget
$300 credit card payment (assuming 12K balance, decent interest rate)
$150 utilities (gas, water, electric, trash)
$150 insurance premiums (house, possessions)
$120 cell phone bill
$50 internet service (no cable/house phone)
$4420 total expenses.


Leaves you just under $1000/month out of $5400 after tax, and I didn't include any $ for kid expenses, eating out more than 1x/week, recreation (ammo, golf, gym membership - whatever) which is atypical etc. I'd also assume that the debt load for this house hold is higher than what I have listed, which eats away at availability for saving extra - also didn't budget any retirement savings above.

I agree with you that there is a different definition of comfortable for most on this board vs average joe in Denver, but then again they didn't survey us!

[Firehaus]

When I moved here 10 years ago it was the same. Wage calculator stated that $50k/year in Kansas was like $80k/year here if you bought a home. If you rented it was around $60k/ year. I doubt that is the same with rents skyrocketing. Which is great if your a landlord.


Sent from my iPhone

[StagLefty]

You guys would have a coronary if you knew what I lived on per year now that I'm retired. Hint-only source of income is SS.

[MrPrena]

Yeah, sounds about right. I wanna see if my budget is similar here.

Figures are approx (minimal):
$1500 housing payment
$0 health insurance (Will be $250 after June)
$380 car payment 1
$0 car payment 2
$0 car payment 3
$0 student loan payment
$500 food budget (For family of 3)
$150 gas/fuel budget ($300 @ $3/gal)
$300 credit card payments
$250 utilities (gas, water, electric, trash)
$200 Auto insurance premiums (Paid 6mo full)
$75 cell phone bill (For 2 pre-paid)
$50 internet service (no cable/no house phone)
$50 HOA
$450 personal spending (husband, wife , kid, incl school supplies)

$3905 total expenses. (upto $4305)

This figure above will be without any savings, extra costs, emergency spending, nor vacations. Oh, and no gun purchase.





Sounds about right to me, especially with how debt laden and broke everybody is. If you have:

$1500 housing payment (rent/mortgage assuming $250k property - this is probably low for "comfortable" in Denver)
$500 health insurance (using my wife and I as examples - mid 20s - thanks BHO and obviously much higher if you have kids)
$400 car payment 1
$300 car payment 2
$350 student loan payment (I realize not everyone has this, but most folks my age making 82K gross probably do)
$300 food budget
$300 gas budget
$300 credit card payment (assuming 12K balance, decent interest rate)
$150 utilities (gas, water, electric, trash)
$150 insurance premiums (house, possessions)
$120 cell phone bill
$50 internet service (no cable/house phone)
$4420 total expenses.

[SamuraiCO]

Obvious they did not include reloading/shooting supplies in this budget

[tmckay2]

eh, stuff like that is always difficult to estimate. i guess if thats the average, but you can get by on a lot less if needed.

[Irving]

My wife would quit in a heart beat if I made that much money on my own.

[hurley842002]

My wife would quit in a heart beat if I made that much money on my own.
Same here.

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

IDK, guess it would depend on that definition of comfortably....and for how many people. I might venture to say that number is a little low if it is for a family. For a single person, yeah you could probably barhop every weekend and hang out with the hipsters in lodo on $80K LOL

[hurley842002]

we dont live in Denver, but we have a custom home on land. We make less than 80k a year. we have 9 of us living comfortably, lacking nothing and we help out our oldest in college. of course we dont have to have a new overpriced car all the time, we dont eat out, etc.
This is where I'd like to be someday, but I'm good with our 2 boys lol.

[Snowman78]

Child care is a very big expense, at one time when the kids were younger we paid over $1,600 per month. Now we only have to pay for our youngest (4 years old) she goes to pre-school 6 hours total a week and 1 full day 8 hrs of daycare per week so a total of 14 hrs per week. We pay $256.00 a month for this. We also have medical and dental-braces bills (over $250.00 per month) family of 5. We are right about 85k per year and need every penny of it.
Don’t eat out, we have one truck payment (less than $202.00 per month) My company pays my internet and cell phone bill.
We really try to keep the utility's bill down (keep the heat set at 64, NO AC in the summer, ect)

Our biggest expense next to the house payment is the grocery store. We have 5 people who eat 3 meals a day from home 7 days a week (we all pack and take our lunches to work or school) and my wife likes us to eat healthy.

[XC700116]

IDK, seems a lot of people here are forgetting the single biggest expense, taxes. When you get into that arena of income, the taxes come along hot and heavy, especially when you're single and your only itemized deduction is the interest on your home.

At that income range as a single person (I've never been anything but so I can't comment on any other situation) you're looking at about $13k in Fed income tax, $3500 to CO, Another $6500 to SS and Medicare, Knocks that $82K down to $59K in a big hurry,And that's not even considering property taxes and licensing your vehicle(s), putting something away for retirement, etc.

So then your spendable income for all your expenses and everything else becomes $4916/month which when you own a home, a decent vehicle have some toys and hobbies isn't really all that much. Comfortable, yeah, but not flying high by any means.

[Irving]

After taxes and health insurance, I brought home just over 50% of what my documents say i make every year.

[hurley842002]

After taxes and health insurance, I brought home just over 50% of what my documents say i make every year.
Ouch!

[Dave_L]

We need more "Stop taking all my money" protests instead of "Give me more income" protests.

[Irving]

That's with not even contributing to a 401k. I saved so much money by switching health plans that I can contribute and still bring home more this year.

[cfortune]

Paid over $22,000 in tax, SS, and medicare last year. Nice to know I pay more for the privilege of living here than most of my expenses generated from living here....

[hurley842002]

Yeah all this talk is certainly helping my decision to get the hell out of here.

[Snowman78]

After taxes and health insurance, I brought home just over 50% of what my documents say i make every year.

Yep me too.

[XC700116]

After taxes and health insurance, I brought home just over 50% of what my documents say i make every year.

Oh yeah, I forgot the health/dental/vision insurance contributions, and Union dues I'm forced to pay for the privilege of working for my employer, even though I'm no longer on the roster (f'd up situation unique to my field of work), all said and done I'm in that same boat, but didn't include the stuff outside of what everyone that works has to pay. It's fricken nutz.

[zimagold]

Definitely depends on the area, but to live in the general Denver metro area it seems realistic.

[tmckay2]

lets just say my wife makes about 40k a year and we found out that because of higher tax brackets and what not we only MADE 7k more with her working versus her not. needless to say, when we had our baby she's now staying at home.

[Circuits]

I'm so glad I don't have to live in Denver on only $82k/yr.

[sniper7]

Ouch 82k frickin hurts around and in denver. It's expensive.

[lex137]

Must be 82k after tax? I know the apartment we brought power to next to union station is charging 2k for 850 some ought sqft. I know I make enough where my wife didn't work but it doesn't leave us with a whole lot extra.

[Gman]

lets just say my wife makes about 40k a year and we found out that because of higher tax brackets and what not we only MADE 7k more with her working versus her not. needless to say, when we had our baby she's now staying at home.Pretty amazing how that works out, huh? When my first wife became ill and couldn't work full-time, I did the math and it didn't really hurt us financially. Most of what she made was being consumed by taxes.

[mcantar18c]

As most of you know we recently moved back from NC. We're still searching for the right house. From what we've found, anywhere close to the major population centers is either affordable but extremely shitty, or not terrible (though not great) and ridiculously expensive, and anywhere with a nice location and at a relatively reasonably price is at least 30-45min away.
For what we paid for the 3 bed, 2 full bath house on 22 acres we had in NC, we can afford a fucking apartment here in CO. The cost of living here is definitely significantly higher.

[hurley842002]

As most of you know we recently moved back from NC. We're still searching for the right house. From what we've found, anywhere close to the major population centers is either affordable but extremely shitty, or not terrible (though not great) and ridiculously expensive, and anywhere with a nice location and at a relatively reasonably price is at least 30-45min away.
For what we paid for the 3 bed, 2 full bath house on 22 acres we had in NC, we can afford a fucking apartment here in CO. The cost of living here is definitely significantly higher.
Yeah the cost of living here makes my stomach turn a bit. Looking online at homes in La Junta opened my eyes (granted it's La Junta). A $300k home in La Junta gets you a easily what would be close to a mil here. With that said, I'm not willing to move back to LJ, so I'm looking for a happy medium.

[MrPrena]

This is why I could not buy any firearms for about a year! :(

[Great-Kazoo]

Pretty amazing how that works out, huh? When my first wife became ill and couldn't work full-time, I did the math and it didn't really hurt us financially. Most of what she made was being consumed by taxes.

Likewise for my spouse, back One topic.
Denver / the metro area has always been expensive to live and exist. A lot of you must be new home buyers, 5 yrs ago the same home could be had for an average of $75 - 100K less, easy. The last housing bust had a lot of places asking for offers. Now the demand outpaced the supply, so up the prices go.
We've always purchased / financed based on 1 income, just in case one were to become unemployed, injured, or serious health issue. Unfortunately most people buy because at the time they can afford it. I don't know how a lot of you do it.

[zimagold]

We've always purchased / financed based on 1 income, just in case one were to become unemployed, injured, or serious health issue. Unfortunately most people buy because at the time they can afford it. I don't know how a lot of you do it.

^ This, My Wife and I both have good jobs, but we bought modestly so we could be flexible.

[hatidua]

For what we paid for the 3 bed, 2 full bath house on 22 acres we had in NC, we can afford a fucking apartment here in CO.

I was sad to leave NC :(

[scratchy]

We also live in a modest home. It's really nice and I'm refinishing it but the mortgage is 12% of our monthly net. We're looking at moving TO NC.

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

We also live in a modest home. It's really nice and I'm refinishing it but the mortgage is 12% of our monthly net. We're looking at moving TO NC.

12% seems cheap to me.......our rent right now is about 30-35 percent of my monthly take home, and when we were buying a house in the metro it was probably about 30 percent (and it was a cheap house, and I supposedly make decent money lol)

[Great-Kazoo]

12% seems cheap to me.......our rent right now is about 30-35 percent of my monthly take home, and when we were buying a house in the metro it was probably about 30 percent (and it was a cheap house, and I supposedly make decent money lol)

And our first house while only $28K had a 13.8% interest rate.

[NFATrustGuy]

We also live in a modest home. It's really nice and I'm refinishing it but the mortgage is 12% of our monthly net. We're looking at moving TO NC.

I'd say you're doing pretty well. Just looking at a bunch of approximate numbers….

IF:

House Cost: $300,000
Down Pmt: 20% = $60,000
Financing $240,000
Monthly Principle, Interest, Taxes & Insurance: ~$1300
Gross Pay: $84,000/yr = $7000/mo
Federal, State & FICA: 25%
Monthly Take Home: $5,250

Payment is 25% of the Take Home Pay

Back in the old days when I worked for the mortgage department at First National before going to law school, I think the accepted ratios were 28/36. Your mortgage PITI payment could be 28% of your GROSS pay and all your payments added together (including the mortgage, car, credit cards, student loans, etc.) could be 36% of your GROSS pay.

Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable spending that much on a mortgage, but I know a lotta people do just fine with it.

[DFBrews]

I am housing hunting in the metro area and it is a frenzyright now all the 200 ish level homes are gone so fast and the ones that last more than a week are overpriced. And if you look at what they where bought for less than a year ago usually then remodeled it is a 50k plus difference.

[tmckay2]

I'd say you're doing pretty well. Just looking at a bunch of approximate numbers….

IF:

House Cost: $300,000
Down Pmt: 20% = $60,000
Financing $240,000
Monthly Principle, Interest, Taxes & Insurance: ~$1300
Gross Pay: $84,000/yr = $7000/mo
Federal, State & FICA: 25%
Monthly Take Home: $5,250

Payment is 25% of the Take Home Pay

Back in the old days when I worked for the mortgage department at First National before going to law school, I think the accepted ratios were 28/36. Your mortgage PITI payment could be 28% of your GROSS pay and all your payments added together (including the mortgage, car, credit cards, student loans, etc.) could be 36% of your GROSS pay.

Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable spending that much on a mortgage, but I know a lotta people do just fine with it.

i think the issue isn't so much about how much people spend on the mortgage as much as how much they spend on things like car loans, credit cards, etc. its the total of payments that gets out of control. if people can focus on one major debt to have its not such a big deal.

[Madeinhb]

I am housing hunting in the metro area and it is a frenzyright now all the 200 ish level homes are gone so fast and the ones that last more than a week are overpriced. And if you look at what they where bought for less than a year ago usually then remodeled it is a 50k plus difference.

I'm running into the same issue. I hate this market.

[Great-Kazoo]

I'm running into the same issue. I hate this market.

Give it 6 - 8 months. The way opec is trying to put everyone out of the production business, combined with O's letting it happen. There will be plenty of $300K + houses coming down in price.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Back in the old days when I worked for the mortgage department at First National before going to law school, I think the accepted ratios were 28/36. Your mortgage PITI payment could be 28% of your GROSS pay and all your payments added together (including the mortgage, car, credit cards, student loans, etc.) could be 36% of your GROSS pay.

When I bought my current house, it was right at what I was getting from the AF for BAH, about 14% of my gross so right near 28% of my take hom.. Today, I think it's about 7% of my gross.


Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable spending that much on a mortgage, but I know a lotta people do just fine with it.

Yeah, I couldn't believe they let mortgages at 28% of gross. That was bad enough but the numbnuts who took out mortgages on houses based on 3% of gross are the major reason for the last economic downturn and the upcoming downturn. I said in 2007-2008 that there was very little wrong in American industry at that time but a whole lot wrong in American society and "culture" encouraging eternal indebtedness; I stand by those words today.

[kwando]

I am housing hunting in the metro area and it is a frenzyright now all the 200 ish level homes are gone so fast and the ones that last more than a week are overpriced. And if you look at what they where bought for less than a year ago usually then remodeled it is a 50k plus difference.

300 is the new 200.

Side note, i'll sell you my house :)

[Dave_L]

I'd love to sell and move as my value has jumped up a ton since we bought 2.5 years ago. But then you have to dump it all into the new house to offset the amount you're buying the next house for. Granted, It's "free" money that inflated the value on my current home but I still can't justify it until I find a house that's a real value. Look at the assessor page for houses that are for sale and the houses are selling 25-40% higher than they've ever sold for. That is concerning to me. Add in the fact that the stock market is at 17k and something eventually has to give.

My hope is that when the next dip happens, I can still turn a decent profit on my house since it's in a majorly growing area. Then not pay some inflated price on the next home. Or find someone I know that wants to sell and is willing to offer me a fair price on it. $300k for a home that doesn't even have a 3 car garage? No way.

[Great-Kazoo]

I'd love to sell and move as my value has jumped up a ton since we bought 2.5 years ago. But then you have to dump it all into the new house to offset the amount you're buying the next house for. Granted, It's "free" money that inflated the value on my current home but I still can't justify it until I find a house that's a real value. Look at the assessor page for houses that are for sale and the houses are selling 25-40% higher than they've ever sold for. That is concerning to me. Add in the fact that the stock market is at 17k and something eventually has to give.

My hope is that when the next dip happens, I can still turn a decent profit on my house since it's in a majorly growing area. Then not pay some inflated price on the next home. Or find someone I know that wants to sell and is willing to offer me a fair price on it. $300k for a home that doesn't even have a 3 car garage? No way.

It all comes down to where you Want to live. That lifestyle & comfort level come with a price.

[trlcavscout]

For what I make with a family of four I have seriously considered quitting my job a few times and getting on the gravy train with the EBT wheels!!!!

[Dave]

For what I make with a family of four I have seriously considered quitting my job a few times and getting on the gravy train with the EBT wheels!!!!
They'll fight for your right to buy pot with gov provided money, but I wonder if they'll cry if you buy ammo with it.

[trlcavscout]

They'll fight for your right to buy pot with gov provided money, but I wonder if they'll cry if you buy ammo with it.

Well I will do it like most people do, I will work for someone paying me under the table so I have ammo money, and then get the free insurance and food and stuff so I can get lobster and beer. It benefits the employer because he doesn't have to offer me Obama care to.

[Irving]

We'd like to move some where with land, and either move mom-in-laws trailer to the land, or build a tiny house for her to live in. After realizing that my wife can work from home as a translator, I'm really starting to think hard about this as an option.

[kwando]

3 car garage? Shit i need a minimum of a 6 car garage... 3 bd, and a hole in the ground.

[Dave_L]

3 car garage? Shit i need a minimum of a 6 car garage... 3 bd, and a hole in the ground.

Word. Next house needs acreage plus either a shop/barn or a level spot to build one. Only way I'm moving at this point. Just crazy that $300k in this market doesn't even get you a 3 car. That's silly.

[scratchy]

12% seems cheap to me.......our rent right now is about 30-35 percent of my monthly take home, and when we were buying a house in the metro it was probably about 30 percent (and it was a cheap house, and I supposedly make decent money lol)

It is cheap. I like it that way. The place is more than enough for us, It would sell for 420+ in today's market. We like vacations. Lots of them.

[Great-Kazoo]

We'd like to move some where with land, and either move mom-in-laws trailer to the land, or build a tiny house for her to live in. After realizing that my wife can work from home as a translator, I'm really starting to think hard about this as an option.

Forget the metro area . From wellington in the north down to CoSpgs in the south. You need to move east, or west & or south of GJ


Word. Next house needs acreage plus either a shop/barn or a level spot to build one. Only way I'm moving at this point. Just crazy that $300k in this market doesn't even get you a 3 car. That's silly.

We have some of that. It's just too many people on the front range, way too many. No matter how big a shop you build, it's never big enough after you move in.