Union Strikes Lead to Suspension of Constitition

[wctriumph]

So, just musing over some thoughts on how we will be subjugated here in the good old USA:

One of the major unions will start a strike It could be the Teamsters, Longshoreman, United Auto Workers, maybe some other group. Then the other unions strike in support and basically paralyze the country. Can't get shipments of critical goods into the country, can't get what is here transported and because goods such as food and fuel are not making it to you and I we will have a MAJOR crisis. Or course the government will need to step in to make things right. Under current executive orders the country's system of communication will be taken over for official news, no more independent TV, radio, internet. Laws will be passed and force will be used to get things going again. In order for the government to insure all goes smoothly they will need to suspend the constitution and the next election cycle to make sure things get back to normal. The new normal, with government in charge of the distribution of necessary basic goods such as food. I can see fuel being strictly limited to control population movement and military force being used to control populations to make sure that we are all peaceful during this transition to the new order.

How many could die and would the government pick and choose which population centers are taken care of and which ones are left to their own devices? Will the people stand up to the authorities and fix things or meekly surrender their rights for food?

Anyone care to expand? Your thoughts? Is this even possible?

[RMAC757]

I see what your your saying. I think unions leading to martial law maybe a bit of a stretch. Unions seem to be a necessary evil in today's environment at certain companies and jobs. This goes for the private and public sectors. In mine and a lot of other cases we have seen our industries boom and CEO's reap the rewards while we settle for post 9/11 salaries and benefits. Your average CEO of a major corporation makes 200% more than they did 20 years ago. BOD's and CEO's care about one thing....stock prices. Their tenure is often only 5 years with golden parachutes that leave them set for life. This is the slow dismantling of the middle class. We've seen jobs with pensions written in stone taken away ( all the while being not being legally vested ) and Corporation leaders become multi millionaires many times over. Not everyone is going to run their own business. The world needs worker bees too. As long as we encourage the outsourcing of jobs and technology we will have to deal with this. Are some unions greedy and corrupt? Yup. I've seen and been apart of them "eating their young" But the same number are fighting to achieve an economic balance between the top and bottom of corporations. In my industry, we would have a lot more holes punched into the ground if not for Unions fighting for better work rules and rest times ( they are still behind the curve ). They also provide assistance with family and in many cases aeromedical help which is often needed. Again, it's a two edged sword. For the record, it takes an act of God for us to strike do to the Railway a Labor Act.

[68Charger]

I have previously been forced to be a rat by my employer (a non-union employee sent to do an employee's job while they strike).
So this is from my experience, I don't have experience with other unions.

This was a CWA (Communication Workers of America) contract... primarily call centers and field workers (circuit installers, circuit troubleshooters, etc)
A union contract is a 2-way street- they agree to work, and the company agrees to the terms of employment (salary, benefits, retirement, etc)... if they don't work when their contract is in force, they are in breach of contract and the company could potentially "break" the union and hire outside help. They do have a right to remain in business, as long as they are doing "good faith" efforts to get the contract issue resolved.
These contracts periodically expire (they have a term to them)... and once they expire, a work stoppage can occur since they're no longer under a contract to work. For something like this to be so detrimental to society, it would require unions in different sectors with contracts that had expired in the same timeframe.

The likely scenario if another union goes on strike while still under contract is that the company would hire "rats" or "scabs" to do the work (rats are non-union replacements, scabs are union workers that cross the picket line and go to work). Of course the picketers aren't happy with them, and in some places can be downright hostile... where I was assigned there was some mild hostility- At one point somebody confronted me at a stoplight... I told him I don't want their job, but the company would fire me if I didn't do it. He was flabbergasted- once he realized I was just trying to keep my job, he realized I wasn't his enemy.

The only way, IMHO it would escalate to martial law is if it lead to riots, looting, etc... in some places this could be possible if the police union is in support of the walkout, or not in support of the lockout... we heard of incidents in some places where the police were union and wouldn't help the rats get to their job location... those people wound up being relocated before it got too ugly.

Now Teamsters or Longshoremen are probably a tougher crowd than communication workers... so violence could escalate quicker.

[Ridge]

There are enough people unemployed or underemployed that scabs will be easy to get.

[HoneyBadger]

If all the union workers of the country refused to work, they would get hungry awfully quick and the rest of the skilled laborers would find themselves swimming in money. Just like any other empire, Unions have long outlived their usefulness in this modern age and will and lose influence and fade away.

[wctriumph]

It seems to me that just one week of no transportation of food and fuel could really do some damage. No fuel, no movement, no coal for power plants = no electricity in some areas, no food delivered, 3 to 5 days no food and essential services cut ...

Scabs working?? Not if government stops them by force. CEO's and money mean nothing if a coup in organized and lead by corrupt leaders to get it started?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here to get a discussion going. What are worst case and best case scenarios? Could we as a people without access to mass communication be able to organize a resistance and stop such a coup?

[Sackett]

If the Teamsters strike, I'm visiting the zoo for my food.

[Monky]

You guys do know the gov can force a union to not strike if it's going to be detrimental to the country right?


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.

[Dave]

Is this because of the possible strike that the union of 23 west coast ports are threatening?

[Zundfolge]

I say bring it.

Once the unions cross that line you'll see right to work laws spread across the country like wildfire ... and the anti union movement will grow and kill organized labor once and for all.

And if this administration ever tries to pull martial law we'll see a second civil war flare up so fast it'll make your head spin.

[sniper7]

Quite a bit of a stretch. Lot of laws that regulate strikes out there which are definitely in effect. Voting to strike anymore is simplying outtig pressure on the company to make a deal or work harder in arbitration. The union still has to get released to strike after the workers vote to go on strike. You are obviously not union or educated in the different laws of striking.

[68Charger]

Scabs working?? Not if government stops them by force. CEO's and money mean nothing if a coup in organized and lead by corrupt leaders to get it started?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here to get a discussion going. What are worst case and best case scenarios? Could we as a people without access to mass communication be able to organize a resistance and stop such a coup?

ok, if the gov't (current administration) is behind it, then it's not a coup...

The NLRB gets involved with any labor disputes, up to and including work stoppages: http://www.nlrb.gov/what-we-do
http://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-protect


Employer/Union Rights and Obligations

The law forbids employers from interfering with employees in the exercise of rights to form, join or assist a labor organization for collective bargaining, or from working together to improve terms and conditions of employment, or refraining from any such activity. Similarly, labor organizations may not interfere with employees in the exercise of these rights.

So the NLRB would have to violate their charter to allow the gov't to prevent rats or scabs from performing union jobs.
Remember what Reagan did when the Air Traffic Controllers tried to strike under his watch?

[SSChameleon]

We have the Taft-Hartley Act so the government can avoid just the scenario you described. If a strike is going to cause such significant damage to the economy/nation the Feds can step in.

[68Charger]

You guys do know the gov can force a union to not strike if it's going to be detrimental to the country right?

I do, and they can also order them (under penalty of arrest if they don't comply) to allow workers through the picket lines... saw that happen (the orders, but not arrests, the picketers complied)

[Ridge]

It seems to me that just one week of no transportation of food and fuel could really do some damage. No fuel, no movement, no coal for power plants = no electricity in some areas, no food delivered, 3 to 5 days no food and essential services cut ...

Scabs working?? Not if government stops them by force. CEO's and money mean nothing if a coup in organized and lead by corrupt leaders to get it started?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here to get a discussion going. What are worst case and best case scenarios? Could we as a people without access to mass communication be able to organize a resistance and stop such a coup?

Difference is, the government wont be stopping scabs. They know that a full work stoppage would destroy the country's economy, and they care more about that than they do some ideals which can only be accomplished by this.

This isn't the 1940s. This isn't newly communist China. There is instant worldwide communication, and that can't be stopped unless they shut off phones and internet. And that would lead to an uprising faster than it would take for those Mack truck engines to cool off.

[68Charger]

I think if this were to happen, it wouldn't specifically be unions, but it would be related to either racial or class warfare that escalates to violence (riots, looting, etc)
Unions happen to engage in class warfare (I was accused of killing the middle class, which was funny since my hair was beyond shoulder length at the time... the picketer felt pretty stupid after he said it and took a closer look at me... we all laughed about it the next morning- my supervisor had overheard it, and told me I was "looking particularly middle class today")

[Sixgun]

Being a union member for 20years I've been in one strike. We were order by a judge at 2am to go back to work. If we don't go back to work high ranking union leader go to federal prison. [ROFL1] The strike lasted 2 hrs. The company took away out vacation and personal leave days because we were short man crews. As a locomotive engineer there are no scabs that can drive trains, so we could literally shut the Country down. Unions today are not very powerful, they help negotiate pay, insurance, time off, ect...
No way in hell would unions be able to shut our country down.

[clodhopper]

Information to keep in mind when thinking about the strength of unions:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.t05.htm

While there are some unions that work a critical facility, (ie longshoreman) that can potentially have a significant short term impact, there would likely be a quick and fast backlash. I don't think any union feels secure enough these days to mess with the general population. If anything, I would more likely expect a union to prevent a government entity from pulling an evil move, such as trying to shut down the docks. In my mind, more of a non-entity in a concept that could impact the whole country to a critical degree.

[Circuits]

There is no (lawful) means of "suspending the constitution", though outright rebellion can result in martial law and the suspension of habeas corpus.

The key is that the federal government would need the willing assistance of the military, or the use of the federal "law enforcement" apparatus, and the military opting to stay out of it.

I think there are too many in our military, present or prior service, who take the constitution and their oaths to it seriously enough to be able to use the military against the civilian populace and the state governments in this manner.

[RMAC757]

Being a union member for 20years I've been in one strike. We were order by a judge at 2am to go back to work. If we don't go back to work high ranking union leader go to federal prison. [ROFL1] The strike lasted 2 hrs. The company took away out vacation and personal leave days because we were short man crews. As a locomotive engineer there are no scabs that can drive trains, so we could literally shut the Country down. Unions today are not very powerful, they help negotiate pay, insurance, time off, ect...
No way in hell would unions be able to shut our country down.

You probably fell into the same category as my industry. We are governed by the National Railway Labor Act ( Which covers Airlines ). To strike takes an act of God and approval from the NLRB. To say all unions are useless is a bit uninformed. Our CEO's would strip everything away from us if we didn't have a consolidated group. It would be near impossible to have 3K pilots show up and operate our airline the next day if that were to happen. In our business, crossing that line would mean the end of your career ( people have long memories when it comes to scabs ). One important thing to note is that the union is only as strong as its members. It also does some incredible things for the group. If a guy ( or gal ) is falsely accused of something, it installs a due process. It helps families in distress. We also have the safest airline industry in the world thanks to the work of ALPA who has helped to create rules on how much we can work. Fatigue causes crashes. The CEO's don't care if we eat, sleep or anything else. Being a union member in my industry is just a tool to help leverage our profession. That being said, there are some weak unions that are corrupt as hell. It's all about the people involved. It doesn't help anybody when a company losses money.

[Irving]

What event caused you to start this thread wctriumph? Seems like a stretch to me.

[PsyKo]

All of the teamsters I work with are way over paid, fat, and lazy, there is no way they would jeopardize their jobs to strike, all of these guys know they would take a 25% minimum pay cut in a non union environment. This gravy train has no brakes.

[Bailey Guns]

I don't see that scenario happening. Remember...the union workers and their families would be just as cold, hungry and without essentials as everyone else.

[Great-Kazoo]

We have the Taft-Hartley Act so the government can avoid just the scenario you described. If a strike is going to cause such significant damage to the economy/nation the Feds can step in.


I do, and they can also order them (under penalty of arrest if they don't comply) to allow workers through the picket lines... saw that happen (the orders, but not arrests, the picketers complied)



ATC strike during Reagan's presidency.

[Bailey Guns]

ATC strike during Reagan's presidency.

"He's bluffing. He won't fire us."

"Whaddya mean don't bother coming in to work tomorrow?"

[Dave]

All of the teamsters I work with are way over paid, fat, and lazy, there is no way they would jeopardize their jobs to strike, all of these guys know they would take a 25% minimum pay cut in a non union environment. This gravy train has no brakes.

http://news.investors.com/020615-738418-dock-workers-union-demands-hurt-consumers.htm

[68Charger]

ATC strike during Reagan's presidency.

(my post at 11:08):


Remember what Reagan did when the Air Traffic Controllers tried to strike under his watch?


YEP

[68Charger]

All of the teamsters I work with are way over paid, fat, and lazy, there is no way they would jeopardize their jobs to strike, all of these guys know they would take a 25% minimum pay cut in a non union environment. This gravy train has no brakes.

There are frequently abuses in the system.. I also recognize when they're helpful... but I've also seen someone get the shit kicked out of them because they were newly forced into the union after a takeover... and they were "making everyone else look bad" (by doing their job as well as they did the week before)... so they had an "accident" falling down the stairs...

I don't know I'd take it as well as them...

[wctriumph]

http://www.longshoreshippingnews.com/

and

http://www.npr.org/2015/02/14/386199926/west-coast-port-closures-are-hitting-several-industries-hard

No cargo will go in or out of 29 West Coast ports this weekend.
It's the third partial shutdown in operations at these ports in a week, the result of a bitter labor dispute between shipping lines and the union representing 20,000 dock workers. The dispute has been dragging on for eight months, and now the economic impacts of the shutdown are starting to be felt.
Even before the labor dispute between the Pacific Maritime Association and the International Longshore and Warehouse Union, there was a major congestion crisis brewing at West Coast ports, and the shutdowns this weekend are only making things worse.
Standing on a bluff overlooking the Port of Los Angeles, one can see a half-dozen huge container ships sitting idle; there are at least six more on the horizon.
"If you think about being on a tarmac for a couple of hours at an airport, some of these people have been waiting off-shore for weeks to get in," says Phillip Sanfield, a spokesman with the Port of Los Angeles. He's standing on the docks inside the port, where things are eerily quiet. Two massive container ships look like someone abandoned them in a hurry, and the cranes towering above them are just hanging there.
"We need to get back on schedule and we're hearing from customers throughout the country and beyond that it is affecting their businesses," Sanfield says. "So we need to get this cargo moving."

Even a partial shutdown of operations is a big deal here. At the combined ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach, about $1 billion worth of cargo comes through every day. Most of it is from Asia: electronics, clothes, toys and car parts.
And then there's the export side of things. One industry especially caught in the middle of all this is agriculture. California's citrus industry is blaming the port shutdowns and congestion for a 25 percent drop in export business.
"Season to date it's estimated that this has impacted the California citrus industry by the reduction of about $500 million in export sales," says Dusty Ference, director of grower services at the industry trade group California Citrus Mutual.
Ference says this is all coming at a really bad time because this is the industry's peak export season ahead of the Chinese New Year.
"We're getting reports now that, not including trucking time, these containers are sitting on the docks for 10 days, and in some cases, longer," he says.
Some industries are now turning to the air to ship freight. Some of Ference's growers are trucking cargo down to the Port of Houston, but going the long way through the Panama Canal is expensive and not always practical.
Mostly they're waiting and hoping things get resolved quickly. The Pacific Maritime Association's president has warned of an all-out "meltdown" on West Coast ports if the union doesn't accept what he called its "generous contract offer."
"You know the truth. We want to go to work and they're blaming us," ILWU President Robert McEllrath said in a video to membership. "There's space on the docks to unload vessels. There's cargo to be delivered and we're here to do it."
On Saturday, the White House said President Obama has directed Labor Secretary Tom Perez to travel to California to see if he can help settle the negotiations.
For now, unless a deal is reached, the Pacific Maritime Association's enforced closure of most major operations up and down the West Coast is scheduled to last through the President's Day holiday.

Its good the White House is working to get this taken care of and quickly!

[theGinsue]

You guys do know the gov can force a union to not strike if it's going to be detrimental to the country right?


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.

Just where the hell was this government protection when the Hostess bakers went on strike? It caused a closure of Hostess and a huge Twinkie shortage until a Mexican company bought the Hostess name & product lines. It was unbearable!
(For the record, contrary to my physical appearance, I do not eat Twinkies or other Hostess snack products)
Oh, and what I take from the closure of the 29 West Coast ports is that we get spared from a bit of the billions of tons of cheap Chinese crap and contaminated foods imported into those ports on a daily basis. I think it's a win for the American consumer.