View Full Version : Wanting a long range toy!
As the title says, I'm wanting to get myself a long range toy to add to my collection. My only problem is, I don't know much about them haha I've always been into the AR platform and handguns. I've been shooting my buddies bolt action and I love it so I figured I'd get my own.
Some background on what I'm wanting and what I'll be using it for. I'm really wanting to stay with .308 but I'm open to any suggestion y'all may have for caliber. I'll mainly be using it for range time and possibly some hunting in the near future, mainly deer. I do go shooting often so I'm wanting something that I'll be able to upgrade once I'm more use to the rifle and I'm a better shot at longer ranges. Any and all input you guys have would be awesome!
Also, I'll need some suggestions for a nice piece of glass too. I only want to have to buy once so I want one that will do more than I need it to, but I have the room to upgrade and move into the optics full potential.
As always, thanks for yours guys input and help, again!
Factory ammo or do you load your own ? How much money in the budget ? Also hunting rifles and target rifles are usually direct opposites .
Zombie Steve
02-19-2015, 15:09
.308 is a decent all-rounder for you. Gives you a lot of options when it's time to rebarrel too... .260, 7-08, .243, et cetera. It's going to be heavy for hunting, but look at a heavy barrel varmint version of a Remington 700 (or tactical, or police version). Give it a bedding and trigger job, and you'll really have to spend a lot more to beat it.
I'll let the others address glass on the market... I just haven't shopped anything for a long time.
.308 is a decent all-rounder for you. Gives you a lot of options when it's time to rebarrel too... .260, 7-08, .243, et cetera. It's going to be heavy for hunting, but look at a heavy barrel varmint version of a Remington 700 (or tactical, or police version). Give it a bedding and trigger job, and you'll really have to spend a lot more to beat it.
I'll let the others address glass on the market... I just haven't shopped anything for a long time.
I concur. I have a 700 in 223, and a friend has one in 308, both are varmint. Have them in Choate stocks, making them heavy as hell, but they are pretty accurate. You could keep the factory stock for hunting (and you wont care if it gets marked up) and get a different stock/chassis for target. The tactical version with the shorter barrel is nice too...
We did some quick adjustments on the stock trigger and I couldnt be happier with it.
Took someone out who had never fired ANY gun a few weeks back and his first pull on the 223, he hit the steel p-dog at 200yds.
Delfuego
02-19-2015, 15:36
Whats your budget??? Do you reload???
It will spend about 98% of the time at the range, I may or may not take it hunting. That's still kind of up in the air if I'll be doing that.
I was thinking of doing a .223 but I'm wanting something a little bigger for my long range rifle, otherwise I'd go with .223.
As for budget, I haven't really set one for this gun hah not looking to kill my wallet on it either though. As for reloading, I have relapsed a few times in the past but I don't currently do it anymore.
IMO, if you don't reload, you'll do more breaking the bank on ammo than the rifle. Good long range ammo isnt cheap. Plinking, yeah, but reaching out there is a different ball game.
And i agree that 223 isnt the best for reaching out. I was taking pot shots at a prairie rat at about 650yd the other day. Running that through a quick calculator shows a 93in drop at that range.
Remington or Savage heavy barrel gun with a decent stock , none of the ones with the injection molded junk stocks , in 308 or 6.5 creed . For glass cheap go with the Super Sniper line from SWFA, for what you described in the first post Nightforce NXS . Factory match ammo is gonna run a buck a round or more typically .
The only reason I don't reload anymore is because my free time has dropped significantly since I started my new job, plus I don't have any large caliber guns that would be worth my time to reload. I know that sounds dumb and a waste of money but I don't have the time to reload all of my .40 and .223 that I've spent through hah
I'll have to look into the 6.5 Creed. I'll have to look into the Nightforce as well, I take it that's a nice optic? I'm not too worried about how much each trigger pull is, it's not like I'll be going out and shooting a few hundred rounds like I do with my .40 and .223
Delfuego
02-19-2015, 17:02
There is a nice Bighorn/Chanlynn 308 Sporter at a gun store down here. It's $2400. not sure if that is out of your range...
I think budget will help everyone advise you better. What is expensive to some may not be to somebody else.
6.5 is a great round, but without reloading you have limited and expensive options for match ammo.
Find out what type of long range rifle games are available in your area. Try and attend a couple and see what the other shooters are using.
Unless you're sure you're going to love the long range game and get yourself deeply into it, I'd consider putting together a budget rifle to start with. It will let you play all the LR games you want without spending the $4K+ that a lot of guys have invested in their rifles and scopes. To that end, take Mr Ward's advice and buy a Remington or Savage in your caliber of choice and top it with a $300 Super Sniper scope. I'm a tongue-in-cheek Savage basher, but they really do put out a nice rifle for the money. You ought to be able to get it done for under a grand. If it turns out to be something you really love, then go back with all your newly acquired knowledge and put together a super duper steel killer. Keep the original rifle to loan to your friends so you can get them hooked, too. You're going to need friends because your wife is going to hate you.
XC700116
02-19-2015, 19:30
Tim and chuck pretty much nailed it, although I'd recommend going with the 6.5 creed as it honestly has arguably the best factory match ammo available for the money and its about 5 bucks a box cheaper on average than equally good 308 ammo. Optics are where you really spend money, soi agree with what's been said, go with a fixed power swfa super sniper until you know for sure its something you want to jump into with h both feet. You'll lose as much on selling a used high end piece of glass as what the swfa costs and they are proven reliable units.
Delfuego
02-19-2015, 19:54
My first rifle was a 308 Savage! Savages are very good out-of-the-box rifles, especially the LRP models. But alas I contracted the long range fever and it's all over now. Savages have a lot less aftermarket parts than a Remington 700, so if you like to fiddle and upgrade R700.
Like I said I'm my first post, I haven't really set a budget for this gun. If I had to put a tag on it though, I'd say maybe somewhere around $3,000 including glass.
I may just pick up a cheaper one for now until I figure out if it's something I really want to get into like you guys have said. I think it would be cool to check out some of the long range rifle games too.
I'm kinda leaning towards the Remington 700, from what you guys have said so far it sounds like it would better fit me since I do enjoy tinkering and upgrading my guns haha
Beside the Nightforce and the SWFA super sniper, what are some other good reliable optics? I've heard good things about Vortex and Leopold.
If you want to come down this weekend, you can check out and shoot my setup. Weather is going to be shit though.
I have a redfield on mine, its a decent cheap starter.
I suggest combing out to a few of the matches. That way you can see a ton of options. You can get behind mine if you like as well. Lots of good advice here posted already so I won't rehash all that. Try and budget about the same you plan to spend on the rifle on the glass.
If you want to come down this weekend, you can check out and shoot my setup. Weather is going to be shit though.
I have a redfield on mine, its a decent cheap starter.
I would take you up on that if I wasn't having to work this weekend!
I suggest combing out to a few of the matches. That way you can see a ton of options. You can get behind mine if you like as well. Lots of good advice here posted already so I won't rehash all that. Try and budget about the same you plan to spend on the rifle on the glass.
Where would I find out when and where the matches are taking place? I'd be interested to come check them out.
Just to name a couple of them...
Pueblo rifle match - https://www.ar-15.co/threads/143351-Pueblo-Precision-Field-Rifle-Match
Raton rifle match - https://www.ar-15.co/threads/3118-Sporting-Rifle-precision-field-match-at-the-Whittington-Cent
Where would I find out when and where the matches are taking place? I'd be interested to come check them out.
Right here...
https://www.ar-15.co/forums/114-Shooting-Sports-and-Events
Delfuego
02-19-2015, 21:21
Beside the Nightforce and the SWFA super sniper, what are some other good reliable optics? I've heard good things about Vortex and Leopold.SWFA HD 5-20 / Gen I Vortex Razor / Bushnell HDMR are all good scopes and decent prices. Any would server you well. I'm not a fan of Leupold or Nightforce, but that's just me.
There are some great deals on the Gen 1 Vortex right now. On the gun route, I'd go the way Chuck suggested. I just am finishing up a factory 700 for my wife. Its an sps in .243. Dropped it into an MDT Chassis, and added a new trigger. Topping it with a Vortex 5-20. Just waiting on rings to come in. Whole thing including glass was around $2400. Should be a 3/4 minute gun or so. I think it's a good place to start.
XC700116
02-20-2015, 07:47
A setup like banks posted would be a good starter, or a savage 12lrp in 6.5 creedmoor would do well too. Both would fit the $3k'ish budget well as you have to keep in mind most have as much into ancillary equipment (or nearly so) as their rifles. Good bipod, rear bag, sling, range finder, etc, the list goes on and on hahaha.
But you can get started with basics pretty easily. As for glass many great options have been mentioned. I personally am not a fan of Leopold, but the nf, Bushnell tactical, vortex razors and viper PST, swfa, anf Burris xtr2 are all solid options in that price range.
I just did the same thing. I am very new to long range shooting and didn't want to spend a ton of money just to see if I'd like it. I have a savage 12 lrp in 6.5 creedmoore and topped it off with a swfa ss and a bipood I had laying around and rings from a friend. I'm about $1200 in so far and have no regrets on my purchase. The rifle shoots great and the factory ammo isn't too bad. I've taken the factory ammo out to 1k yds several times. It is a lot of fun and the people around are a lot of help. Most are willing to teach you what they know.
All hood info on here. With a 3k budget you have a lot of options. Bryan S shoots a Savage LRP 6.5 CM with a 20x super sniper and factory Hornady 140 A-Max with great results. Not quite hand loads, but out to 750 its right on and 70% at 1K.
Guess we posted at the same time Bryan...[Beer]
I remember XC700116 was saying the Tikka CTR was also a very capable out of the box rig.
Well that is weird. Great minds I guess. Or something like that.
Nothing bad to say about my savage either . I went vortex for optics though. Outside of scope the thing that will get you if your not careful is chassis options. But if you do that I would take hunting out of the equation
Delfuego
02-20-2015, 09:37
Tikka CTR was also a very capable out of the box rig.Tikka are nice, a very smooth action & good trigger. There is now also chassis that are drop in and some good aftermarket parts.
Check out the Remington 700 5-R Milspec in .308. It's a hard rifle to beat. Many people have started out this way and re-barrelled later.
I'm gonna have to do some research on the 6.5 CM, I haven't heard too much about it except from what you guys have told me on here. I'm definitely excited to get into long range, something about being able to reach out to 1,000 yards and hit your target is so gratifying haha
I can't wait to head to the shop this weekend and see what kind of new toys I can pick up and start investing into another money pit going haha
I appreciate all the input you guys have given me so far, I look forward to hearing more of your guys opinions and experiences with different set ups.
Whatever you do don't goto mile high shooting ... Your budget will go out the window with all the cool toys
I really like the creedmoor because I am able to have good results with the factory ammo. To reach out to 1k yds pretty consistently with factory ammo is impressive. I am going to start load development here real soon and can't wait to see how she shoots then!
One thing you should know, long range shooters never type "ha ha".
Whatever you do don't goto mile high shooting ... Your budget will go out the window with all the cool toys
I should be safe from that, I live Fort Collins. I've got a few nice shops up here.
One thing you should know, long range shooters never type "ha ha".
Well, then it's probably a good thing I'm not a long range shooter!
XC700116
02-21-2015, 18:16
I remember XC700116 was saying the Tikka CTR was also a very capable out of the box rig.
That it is, but only available in 260 and 308, in which case for a guy that doesn't reload, I'd pass on it.
260 requires either hand-loading, or deep pockets for ammo from a custom loading company like copper creek. I honestly have a hard time recommending anyone get into this game with a 308 these days, it's a fairly large disadvantage as compared to 6mm and 6.5mm's. Does it do the job, yes, but it is a bit harder to compete with.
I am considering a new/used Remington 700 in .308, or just adding a few things to my old savage Model 11 that I've had for 14 years.
my question:
If I go with the Remmy I know I will get a heavy barrel, but WHAT LENGTH? 16.5, 20, 26? My end goal will have a suppressor put on it. My max shooting range for the next couple years would only be 750 yards. I love the look of the 16.5, but I know barrel length plays a huge game in the accuracy. What's the shortest I could get away with and still hit close to MOA at 500?
Barrel length has little to do with accuracy. Barrel quality has everything to do with accuracy.
For a 308 I would not go shorter than 22 and I would lean towards 24-26.
Barrel length has little to do with accuracy. Barrel quality has everything to do with accuracy.
For a 308 I would not go shorter than 22 and I would lean towards 24-26.
WOW?!?!? I thought it did. THANKS! maybe I will look at the 24
At some point, it's just friction. You don't need a 26" barrel, then add a 7-9" suppressor to the mix. There is some amazing stuff being done these days with 18" barrels of nice quality and good muzzle work.
At some point, it's just friction. You don't need a 26" barrel, then add a 7-9" suppressor to the mix. There is some amazing stuff being done these days with 18" barrels of nice quality and good muzzle work.
This is the one I was looking at:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=469633605
At some point, it's just friction. You don't need a 26" barrel, then add a 7-9" suppressor to the mix. There is some amazing stuff being done these days with 18" barrels of nice quality and good muzzle work.
Lots of guys are shooting 308s at 1,000 and doing very well. The F-Class (TR) guys must use 308 or 223. Almost all of them are using 30-32 inch barrels. Trying to burn as much of the powder inside the barrel as possible.
Long barrels with a can on the end isn't a big deal. We aren't jumping in and out of vehicles with them or kicking in doors.
Shorter barrels equal lower velocity. But they do look cool.
The current fascination with short barrels I just don't get .
With a shorter barrel you have to push the cartridge harder to get the velocity which translates to shorter barrel life .
Long range precision rifle is about ballistic advantage . The two biggest factors in that are velocity and the bullets BC . Shorter barrels sacrifice velocity which translates to more drop , not a huge problem , and bigger wind holds , a large problem .
If you need a stubby gun for the conditions , vehicles , MOUT operations , etc. in my opinion your better served with a gas gun .
This also depends on your definition of " long range " . Out to 500 you can get away with a lot that past that makes a big difference .
Delfuego
02-24-2015, 11:27
But SH Frank said I don't need a long barrel...[facepalm]
Listen to Chuck & Hoser, they know what is what when it comes to LR shooting.
Frank doesn't pay for barrels or gunsmithing .
Don't get me wrong Frank's a damn good shot and definitely knows what he's talking about .
But the typical matches around here you get one shot and thats it . So I'm all about maximizing danger space and minimizing wind holds as much as possible , which gives a bigger error budget .
Thanks. I will look for a 24 or 26.
Starting looking around, is there a fancy chart that shows bullet weight, barrel length, and barrel twists that would be optimal? I've see the one for AR's 55gr vs 62gr
24" barrel - 1-10 twist
26" barrel - 1-12 twist.
Zombie Steve
02-24-2015, 21:16
Just my opinion... for .308 just get a 1:10 twist and be done with it.
Either one should work with the 175 or 155 grain bullets . The 1-12 is close to the edge and 1-10 is over stabilized. Up here at altitude you can get away with less twist because of air density .
The Palma shooters are running 1-14 with the 155's . My 308 is 1-11.25 . There is a school of thought that you never want to spin a bullet any faster than you have to , Walt Berger is a huge proponent of this . I can't say that I've ever seen any ill effects from over stabilizing first hand .
Litz makes a case for over stabilization being a non-issue. No negatives, only positives. Crap, now that I think about it it may have been a magazine article.
...gotta quit drinking...
I'd go 1-10 myself.
Wasn't that in "Apllied Ballistics"?
Either one should work with the 175 or 155 grain bullets . The 1-12 is close to the edge and 1-10 is over stabilized. Up here at altitude you can get away with less twist because of air density .
The Palma shooters are running 1-14 with the 155's . My 308 is 1-11.25 . There is a school of thought that you never want to spin a bullet any faster than you have to , Walt Berger is a huge proponent of this . I can't say that I've ever seen any ill effects from over stabilizing first hand .
I shoot 165/168gr out of my savage currently - what twist would you recommend for a 168gr?
Any of the ones talked about already will work
1/10 on my savage .308 works just fine.
But like he said, Any of those mentioned will work
Also ditch the 168's , there are way better bullets out there now . Look at the 175 SMK's , New 155 SMK , 155 Scenar , 178 Amax ,. Hornady's 175 HPBT , and Nosler's 175 .The BC's on these bullets are all way better than the 168's
Tactical Joke
04-21-2015, 13:01
What, no love for the FN SPR A1? :-). Pre-64 Winchester model 70 action and you can find then new for less than $1600.
It's on my short list of next purchases.
What, no love for the FN SPR A1? :-). Pre-64 Winchester model 70 action and you can find then new for less than $1600.
It's on my short list of next purchases.
Good actions but FN has had some QC issues with the chrome lined barrels , some shoot and some don't . The other issue is aftermarket parts availability , just isn't as much as the Rem \ Rem clones and Savage . Also to add a detachable mag the receiver must be milled for clearance .
TheBelly
04-21-2015, 15:25
Also ditch the 168's , there are way better bullets out there now . Look at the 175 SMK's , New 155 SMK , 155 Scenar , 178 Amax ,. Hornady's 175 HPBT , and Nosler's 175 .The BC's on these bullets are all way better than the 168's
I use the Nosler 175 Custom Competition, but only because I'm a cheapskate. I get them for around 20 cents a piece. G7 BC of 0.249......
Tactical Joke
04-25-2015, 13:40
Good actions but FN has had some QC issues with the chrome lined barrels , some shoot and some don't . The other issue is aftermarket parts availability , just isn't as much as the Rem \ Rem clones and Savage . Also to add a detachable mag the receiver must be milled for clearance .
They did have problems with the factory in the northeast. They moved it down South--with some overflow to Spain--and things have been good to go ever since that time, to my knowledge.
I'd argue that many of the aftermarket doo-dahs we buy for the R700 aren't necessary on the SPR, because it already does things 'right.' I will acknowledge stock availability is lacking, but that's about the only thing seems to be lacking for me.
But hey, it's great that we still have choices. [Beer]
The barrel problems are still going on, you just don't hear about them because their market share is tiny and mostly LEO.
The caliber selection is shit because of the way they source the barrels, you can have all you want as long as it is 30 cal.
The parts, IE magazines, are pretty much proprietary and availability is hit or miss.
Yeah, what's not to like?
RonMexico
07-26-2015, 06:46
Tim and chuck pretty much nailed it, although I'd recommend going with the 6.5 creed as it honestly has arguably the best factory match ammo available for the money and its about 5 bucks a box cheaper on average than equally good 308 ammo. Optics are where you really spend money, soi agree with what's been said, go with a fixed power swfa super sniper until you know for sure its something you want to jump into with h both feet. You'll lose as much on selling a used high end piece of glass as what the swfa costs and they are proven reliable units.
^^^ Good advice and after reading a lot about the 6.5 creedmoor, I want to rebarrel my Savages and pick up the new Ruger PR in 6.5
Good link to read
http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/story/1496625-hello-2015-now-replace-your-308
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