Appleseed - Denver donation meet up.

[buffalobo]

Saturday February 28th.

Location to be determined by committed donors. Am flexible and want to try and make it convenient to donors as can.

Time 1-3 PM

Everybody post up preferences and dig deep.

BigBear is doing great work(educating young people about our heritage and history) with this program way beyond a day at the range and we need to help with the financial burden.

The NOCO guys showed much generosity and need to be outdone.

[crays]

I will be at Gander Aurora around noon for another forum meet up. Don't know if others that will be there are donating.

ETA: That is not to say that I couldn't travel to a different location after.

[Irving]

I will be at Gander Aurora around noon for another forum meet up. Don't know if others that will be there are donating.

ETA: That is not to say that I couldn't to a different location after.

I'll also be there.

[CHA-LEE]

I don't want to sound like a dick, but why is the "financial burden" always on the event coordinator/organizer? Don't get me wrong, I have probably donated over 1000 rounds of ammo to support different shooting disciplines through the years. But I think these groups need to start thinking about this stuff differently. Shooting has expenses (Guns, Gear, Ammo, Targets, etc) and if you can only gain participants by providing "free" stuff, then what kind of expectation are you really setting? Hobbies and other fun activities cost money to do that that expectation needs to be set up front. If they don't know what ammo or targets to bring, then they can bring some cash to pay for the ammo or targets they shoot up.

I could promote and host a USPSA match that provided all of the guns, gear, and ammo for free. It would probably pull in a shit ton of shooters ready and willing to burn up a bunch of ammo for free. But the retention of those "Mooches" would be pretty minimal when they have to actually open up their wallet and pay for the crap on their own. So how effective was that effort? Not very effective.

I understand that some people like bringing new shooters into the shooting sports and know that dangling the carrot of "Free Shooting" is a great marketing tool. But these people need to understand that their expensive marketing plan needs to be funded within their own budget. If they can't or are not willing to invest their own $$$ in to that type of marketing effort, then they should probably change their strategy instead of begging for ammo or money from others to fund the effort.

[crays]

I don't want to sound like a dick, but...

...but that's the way you sounded.

Though I fully understand the point you're trying to make, I don't think it's apples to apples in this case.
This isn't about a general public free for all. Its about a school project which provides historical information and context about the building and freeing of our nation.
It is also providing some children with a positive introduction to firearms, and shooting sports that they may not otherwise have access to. In addition, this is somewhat unique in that it is taking place in a PUBLIC school, where these young minds are most likely going to be liberally indoctrinated against firearms and their ownership.

Not a personal attack on you, cha lee, I just think you missed the point of the bigger picture.

My two cents.

[Monky]

Is this to donate .22lr? I faintly remember the original post.. but I'm too lazy to look.

[crays]

Yes. For bigbear's project.

[Great-Kazoo]

I don't want to sound like a dick, but why is the "financial burden" always on the event coordinator/organizer? Don't get me wrong, I have probably donated over 1000 rounds of ammo to support different shooting disciplines through the years. But I think these groups need to start thinking about this stuff differently. Shooting has expenses (Guns, Gear, Ammo, Targets, etc) and if you can only gain participants by providing "free" stuff, then what kind of expectation are you really setting? Hobbies and other fun activities cost money to do that that expectation needs to be set up front. If they don't know what ammo or targets to bring, then they can bring some cash to pay for the ammo or targets they shoot up.

I could promote and host a USPSA match that provided all of the guns, gear, and ammo for free. It would probably pull in a shit ton of shooters ready and willing to burn up a bunch of ammo for free. But the retention of those "Mooches" would be pretty minimal when they have to actually open up their wallet and pay for the crap on their own. So how effective was that effort? Not very effective.

I understand that some people like bringing new shooters into the shooting sports and know that dangling the carrot of "Free Shooting" is a great marketing tool. But these people need to understand that their expensive marketing plan needs to be funded within their own budget. If they can't or are not willing to invest their own $$$ in to that type of marketing effort, then they should probably change their strategy instead of begging for ammo or money from others to fund the effort.

I spoke with my wallet. It's a positive firearm interaction, for the children. Plus it's done through the board members school.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I spoke with my wallet. It's a positive firearm interaction, for the children. Plus it's done through the board members school.

Emphasis added. Not only are we educating the kids in stuff Obama and company don't want them to know, the faculty at the school get to see safe, responsible use and instruction in firearms. That's probably not as big a deal in El Paso County but any time we can counteract the misinformation spread by the likes of the NEA is time and money well worth spending.

[BigBear]

Hi Cha-Lee. I completely understand and agree with you on all the points you made, I just come from a different veiw point and will try to explain what we are trying to accomplish with this event. Please see my inserted red comments below. I look forward to a discussion. If there are any other questions, concerns, etc... please let me know.


I don't want to sound like a dick (No worries, we all gotta say what we gotta say sooner or later), but why is the "financial burden" always on the event coordinator/organizer? (The financial burden is on me because this event was my brainchild for this school. The school can not "endorse" the event as a public school is funded through tax dollars, ya-da ya-da. I could make the event just a classroom lecture but it will not satisfy my desires to really get the kids behind the firearms and teach them about safety, history, etc with a hands on approach. We do not have a rifle team, JROTC, etc at this school that we could piggy back on. Even though I am on a very strict personal budget, I am ok with having to hold the burden of the financial aspect for this cause as I believe in it. I optioned to try and involve others in the donation process to help ease the burden and I thought you guys might get a kick in helping out some kids, etc. You are in no way obligated to donate anything Sir, and I do apologize if it sounded that way.) Don't get me wrong, I have probably donated over 1000 rounds of ammo to support different shooting disciplines through the years. But I think these groups need to start thinking about this stuff differently. Shooting has expenses (Guns, Gear, Ammo, Targets, etc) and if you can only gain participants by providing "free" stuff, then what kind of expectation are you really setting? (My expectation is to introduce young people who may not have the means (rural school district with low socio-economics) to try it on their own. This is not an event that happens monthly or weekly for the same people over and over. It is a once a year "thing" that is introducing NEW young people to the sport every time. If they enjoy it, at the end of the class they are given information on how to get connected with different groups.) Hobbies and other fun activities cost money to do that that expectation needs to be set up front. If they don't know what ammo or targets to bring, then they can bring some cash to pay for the ammo or targets they shoot up. (Again, I agree but some may not have the cash to participate so I try to help out.)

I could promote and host a USPSA match that provided all of the guns, gear, and ammo for free. It would probably pull in a shit ton of shooters ready and willing to burn up a bunch of ammo for free. But the retention of those "Mooches" would be pretty minimal when they have to actually open up their wallet and pay for the crap on their own. So how effective was that effort? Not very effective. (Again, I agree, but this is not about retention weekly to burn through ammo. This is an introduction and then they are on their own to further their interest.)

I understand that some people like bringing new shooters into the shooting sports and know that dangling the carrot of "Free Shooting" is a great marketing tool. But these people need to understand that their expensive marketing plan needs to be funded within their own budget. If they can't or are not willing to invest their own $$$ in to that type of marketing effort, then they should probably change their strategy instead of begging for ammo or money from others to fund the effort. (Duly noted. I do invest my own money, but since I'm just a lowly public school teacher in a title 1 area and made my own mistakes with college loans, etc... I am not rich. However, I am always looking for ways to better the program so I will try to avoid spreading the word next year and just contact those who are participating now (tongue in cheek).

Please note this is a quick response inbetween classes... If I missed something, I apologize.

[buffalobo]

I will be at Gander Aurora around noon for another forum meet up. Don't know if others that will be there are donating.

ETA: That is not to say that I couldn't travel to a different location after.


I'll also be there.

Noted, will tie all together in some manner or another.

[buffalobo]

Missed the mark on that one CHA-LEE.

[buffalobo]

Is this to donate .22lr? I faintly remember the original post.. but I'm too lazy to look.

It is.

https://www.ar-15.co/threads/136745-BigBears-Intensive-Project-Appleseed-v2014

How much ammo you throwing in?

[buffalobo]

Back on topic and to the top.

[CHA-LEE]

The point I was trying to make is to think about the marketing and funding of this stuff differently. Instead of relying on your fellow shooters to support the "Cause", enlist the local firearms retailers. In the end they are the ones who will benefit from new shooters getting involved with firearms. If I was in your shoes I would be hitting up the local gun stores for sponsorship of the event in whatever manner they feel comfortable with. This is CHEAP direct marketing for them verses paying for advertisements in local or national media outlets.

Get creative with the retailers as well. Talk to the management team to see if they would be willing to offer special discounts for ammo or gear that is purchased on a particular day or time just for the event. Or if a customer purchases XYZ worth of stuff they will donate ABC worth of ammo to the cause. At least that way you could get more for your donor's dollars in buying stuff for the event or they at least know that their retail dollars spent are in part going to a cause they support.

I am not saying that fellow shooters shouldn't support these efforts directly either. If people want to donate to the cause then good for them. Different strokes for different folks.

If others want to get their panties in a twist over my comments that is their choice, I could honestly care less. I am still trying to help your cause be a success regardless of what other people think.

[theGinsue]

Last I heard, BigBear was a teacher down in/around Rye which has no "local firearms retailers". The next closet place would be Pueblo, then COS and I don't see the retailers there caring at all for sales from the Rye community (the perceived cost to benefit ratio would not support it). This means that his best bet for reaching these kids - and to some degree their parents - would be through communities like ours.

[Great-Kazoo]

Last I heard, BigBear was a teacher down in/around Rye which has no "local firearms retailers". The next closet place would be Pueblo, then COS and I don't see the retailers there caring at all for sales from the Rye community (the perceived cost to benefit ratio would not support it). This means that his best bet for reaching these kids - and to some degree their parents - would be through communities like ours.

Especially volunteers with experience fund raising and organizing competitions. Never hurts to have outside input / support.

[newracer]

In my opinion, getting youth involved in shooting benefits us all.

[BigBear]

The point I was trying to make is to think about the marketing and funding of this stuff differently. Instead of relying on your fellow shooters to support the "Cause", enlist the local firearms retailers. In the end they are the ones who will benefit from new shooters getting involved with firearms. If I was in your shoes I would be hitting up the local gun stores for sponsorship of the event in whatever manner they feel comfortable with. This is CHEAP direct marketing for them verses paying for advertisements in local or national media outlets.

Get creative with the retailers as well. Talk to the management team to see if they would be willing to offer special discounts for ammo or gear that is purchased on a particular day or time just for the event. Or if a customer purchases XYZ worth of stuff they will donate ABC worth of ammo to the cause. At least that way you could get more for your donor's dollars in buying stuff for the event or they at least know that their retail dollars spent are in part going to a cause they support.

I am not saying that fellow shooters shouldn't support these efforts directly either. If people want to donate to the cause then good for them. Different strokes for different folks.

If others want to get their panties in a twist over my comments that is their choice, I could honestly care less. I am still trying to help your cause be a success regardless of what other people think.

Yes Sir, I agree with your line of thought and I did try the business approach. I talked to the one True Value/gas station/gun store we have where I work.... I don't have the correct way of speaking as they weren't interested. I also tried places here in the Springs where I live such as Specialty Sports and DragonMan's (among others) but again, I guess I do not have the right approach. If you have experience in that sort of thing I'd love to pick your brain for hopefully next years class!!



Last I heard, BigBear was a teacher down in/around Rye which has no "local firearms retailers". The next closet place would be Pueblo, then COS and I don't see the retailers there caring at all for sales from the Rye community (the perceived cost to benefit ratio would not support it). This means that his best bet for reaching these kids - and to some degree their parents - would be through communities like ours.

pretty much... I did try down there though!!


Especially volunteers with experience fund raising and organizing competitions. Never hurts to have outside input / support.

true, I just act like I know what I'm doing.... In reality I'm triple guessing myself all the time. If people have experience with these type events, please offer advice, etc!!


In my opinion, getting youth involved in shooting benefits us all.

depending on the youth..... Hahaha!!!

[buffalobo]

Thread has great potential to solve future event promotion and funding issues. That is not the subject or goal of this thread, so...