View Full Version : The Retardation of the Firearms Industry
Came across this article and I say amen, with one caveat... I am a hobbyist. That's it. I embrace that. I am fine with hobbyists voicing their opinion and their advice, as long they are not pretending to be something else. Which I think is part of the point of the piece.
http://www.havokjournal.com/nation/retardation-firearms-industry/
I agree completely. This phenomenon is rampant in many fields I once enjoyed.
I agree completely. This phenomenon is rampant in many fields I once enjoyed.
You mean like Broomfield?
gnihcraes
02-26-2015, 20:08
I blame the internet. It ruined many things.
HoneyBadger
02-26-2015, 20:18
The industry, with some exceptions, has turned into a group of garage AR builders, web developers, and other part-time hobbyists jerking each other off through social media, thinking that likes on Facebook, Instagram, or other media sites, somehow relate to product quality.
Those who are actually trying to do informative research on a firearm-related product are misled into thinking that a product or service is worthwhile, because all the hobbyists who are made popular are celebrating it.
Nailed it.
Agree, and I think the thing is it's here to stay. Like it or not, the popularity of firearms lately means your average mall ninja is the target audience. "Cool" sells, and most of the gun companies out there are out to make money at some level...
There will always be serious professionals and there will always be companies that cater to them. But the amount of "noise" is only going to grow IMHO.
I have been designing, installing and programming audio video and automation systems for over 20 years. I have given up telling anyone I meet in social situations what I do for a living because inevitably some asshat will want to let me know how awesome Bose is, how you don't have to run any wire in homes anymore because everything is wireless and how if you spent more than a couple dollars on an HDMI cable your just wasting money. I even got to meet with a potential client one time who had their neighbors son join in because he knows everything about AV.. the kid was 12 years old. [facepalm]
^^ But the Bose kicks ass!
[Sarcasm2]
HoneyBadger
02-26-2015, 20:55
I have been designing, installing and programming audio video and automation systems for over 20 years. I have given up telling anyone I meet in social situations what I do for a living because inevitably some asshat will want to let me know how awesome Bose is, how you don't have to run any wire in homes anymore because everything is wireless and how if you spent more than a couple dollars on an HDMI cable your just wasting money. I even got to meet with a potential client one time who had their neighbors son join in because he knows everything about AV.. the kid was 12 years old. [facepalm]
At the risk of totally derailing this thread, can you explain to me what the difference is between a $10 HDMI cable and a $50 HDMI cable? PM is fine if you're okay not cluttering up the thread.
gnihcraes
02-26-2015, 20:58
I have been designing, installing and programming audio video and automation systems for over 20 years. I have given up telling anyone I meet in social situations what I do for a living because inevitably some asshat will want to let me know how awesome Bose is, how you don't have to run any wire in homes anymore because everything is wireless and how if you spent more than a couple dollars on an HDMI cable your just wasting money. I even got to meet with a potential client one time who had their neighbors son join in because he knows everything about AV.. the kid was 12 years old. [facepalm]
neighbor said his SONOS audio system is giving him grief. Interference or something. I just laughed. Maybe I should turn down the transmitter of my ham radio equipment? neah. Or change the channel on my wifi, neah.
At the risk of totally derailing this thread, can you explain to me what the difference is between a $10 HDMI cable and a $50 HDMI cable? PM is fine if you're okay not cluttering up the thread.
HDMI has tight tolerances that may not be apparent in short runs as in 3 feet but if you have a source device in one location and a TV that is 50 feet away those tight tolerances come into play. Cable materials and construction, shielding and separation of conductors, metals used for conductors, QC are a few factors. For instance there are 19 conductors in an HDMI cable, some are shielded pairs some aren't, some companies might try to get away with not using shielded pairs where they should and so on.. You may be able to get away with a cheap cable for short runs but when you start adding distance the cheaper cables are going to show themselves quickly. Just today I set up the video system at a new restaurant in Steamboat. The owners bought their own cables from monoprice. They were only 3 foot cables but 3 of the 4 cables would not pass an image through the HDMI matrix switch. I pulled out 4 Tributaries HDMI cables from my stock and they all worked the second I plugged them in. That said, just because you pay more doesn't mean you get what you pay for and the rule of diminishing returns goes into effect at a point as well.
Somewhere on my computer I have a link to a great write up that shows in a lab the differences between some HDMI cables from an electrical signal point of view and explains why those cables do or don't work. If I can find it I'll post it up here.
this is what they had.. 3 of the 4 did not work out of the bag, they would not pass an image:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024014&p_id=11559&seq=1&format=2
This is what I use, I've never had one that wouldn't pass an image:
http://www.audiogurus.com/tributaries-series-3-hdmi-cables.html
I liked many of the comments after the article. As to the article itself, I hope the author works on his rant skills because this was weak.
neighbor said his SONOS audio system is giving him grief. Interference or something. I just laughed. Maybe I should turn down the transmitter of my ham radio equipment? neah. Or change the channel on my wifi, neah.
Love my SONOS system.. It's hardwired though. :D
wctriumph
02-26-2015, 21:24
You get the same thing from about any vendor at Tanner, very few are actually knowledgeable about what they are selling and will say anything that pops into their little brains. This is a hobby for me because I enjoy firearms and the people involved. For the most part anyway. So far, everyone on this forum that I have actually met has been great and I trust the information that I find here. I have been on several other forums and I find this place the exception.
Thanks guys and gals, you're the best.
I agree, I can see a lot of parallels to another hobby of mine fly fishing. I used to love going out and enjoying some time on the water but after the movie a river runs through it came out it's never been the same. I have talked to a ton of "know it all know nothing's" behind the counter at almost every shop. It sucks when your hobby becomes popular...
ZERO THEORY
02-26-2015, 21:53
Agreed with the article. However, I'd point out that the advent of the internet only sped up the retardation. Cheaper than Dirt was selling $40 3-9x hunting scopes to unwitting consumers YEARS ago, and Kimber was making money hand over fist selling MIM'd 1911s to fudds long before Instagram had ever registered a URL.
jerrymrc
02-26-2015, 21:55
^^ But the Blose kicks ass!
[Sarcasm2]
FIFY[Flower] Better Options for Sound Enhancement. 70% marketing 30% product. I think the only speaker (IMO) that I ever kinda liked from them was the 601.[Coffee]
HoneyBadger
02-26-2015, 22:01
FIFY[Flower] Better Options for Sound Enhancement. 70% marketing 30% product. I think the only speaker (IMO) that I ever kinda liked from them was the 601.[Coffee]
Polk audio FTW. :)
Great article. The internet has made many things much easier, and among them is the rise of the people that they believe they are experts because they read some stuff and had a few discussions with some like-minded friends.
It's not only guns, as I'm sure you know. Everyone's profession has some person armchair quarterbacking each move, or worse yet- thinking they could do things better because they saw something on TV or a movie, or they had many lengthy discussions with other armchair quarterbacks.
People could try and do what I do for a living, but they would end up no limbs or dead. I'm just a hobbyist for sure I know very little.
I always keep things in perspective by remembering how stupid the average person is and realizing half of the population is below average so they aren't even that smart.
I just assume anyone I meet is a total retard until they prove me wrong.
I always keep things in perspective by remembering how stupid the average person is and realizing half of the population is below average so they aren't even that smart.
I just assume anyone I meet is a total retard until they prove me wrong.
[gohome]
Zundfolge
02-26-2015, 23:06
I dunno ... the author of the article sounded like some weird blend of elitist FUD and elitist "high speed low drag wannabe operator" to me.
I seriously doubt that guys like NutnFancy are driving the industry ... he's an entertainer (although I don't find him all that entertaining).
The guy also sounds like a weird blend of grumpy old fart and young upstart too ... doesn't he remember the decades of bovine scat in the "gun rags"? Doesn't he remember Soldier of Fucking Fortune for chrissake? There's been idiots/entertainers "reviewing" guns since before we defeated The Hun. To quote Solomon; "There is nothing new under the sun"
Overall I don't think he added anything to the discussion (at least not any more than any of the dozen or so "idiots" on YouTube ... I wonder if he counts Jerry Miculek as one of the "idiots"?). Mostly he sounds like an obscure blogger jealous of the "fame" of the "idiots" on YouTube.
It may be an issue for the firearms industry, but at least we're safe knowing that nobody is trying to pretend to be a doctor or make medical decisions based on something they read on the internet, right? [LOL]
For all the bitching about social media and the interweb...
© 2014 The Havok Journal
Like this article? Like us on Facebook! (https://www.facebook.com/BlacksideConcepts)
havokjournal@blacksideconcepts.com
The Havok Journal welcomes re-posting of our original content as long as it is done in compliance with our Terms of Use (http://www.havokjournal.com/terms-of-use).
They also have a Twitter and Google + account.
The firearm industry isn't the only victim. The "gadgeteer" mentality is everywhere. It's interesting what passes for reviews these days.
FIFY[Flower] Better Options for Sound Enhancement. 70% marketing 30% product. I think the only speaker (IMO) that I ever kinda liked from them was the 601.[Coffee]
You know you like JBL. :D
The 901's were OK and groundbreaking in their time. Then again, Bose made a decent amp back then too.
Polk audio FTW. :)
See above re: JBL.
HDMI has tight tolerances that may not be apparent in short runs as in 3 feet but if you have a source device in one location and a TV that is 50 feet away those tight tolerances come into play. Cable materials and construction, shielding and separation of conductors, metals used for conductors, QC are a few factors. For instance there are 19 conductors in an HDMI cable, some are shielded pairs some aren't, some companies might try to get away with not using shielded pairs where they should and so on.. You may be able to get away with a cheap cable for short runs but when you start adding distance the cheaper cables are going to show themselves quickly. Just today I set up the video system at a new restaurant in Steamboat. The owners bought their own cables from monoprice. They were only 3 foot cables but 3 of the 4 cables would not pass an image through the HDMI matrix switch. I pulled out 4 Tributaries HDMI cables from my stock and they all worked the second I plugged them in. That said, just because you pay more doesn't mean you get what you pay for and the rule of diminishing returns goes into effect at a point as well.
Somewhere on my computer I have a link to a great write up that shows in a lab the differences between some HDMI cables from an electrical signal point of view and explains why those cables do or don't work. If I can find it I'll post it up here.
this is what they had.. 3 of the 4 did not work out of the bag, they would not pass an image:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024014&p_id=11559&seq=1&format=2
This is what I use, I've never had one that wouldn't pass an image:
http://www.audiogurus.com/tributaries-series-3-hdmi-cables.html
I've had zero issues with these, though they are bulky and only go to 15', about a buck a foot past 3' http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024004
I've also grabbed some of the "Audioquest" cables that Costco used to sell cheap under their own brand.
Bailey Guns
02-27-2015, 06:50
I somewhat agree with the premise of the article and he made some interesting points. I mostly disagree with the way it was presented and some of the examples of what/who constitutes an expert in the firearms industry.
I always keep things in perspective by remembering how stupid the average person is and realizing half of the population is below average so they aren't even that smart.
I just assume anyone I meet is a total retard until they prove me wrong.
[Sofa]
ZERO THEORY
02-27-2015, 08:04
I somewhat agree with the premise of the article and he made some interesting points. I mostly disagree with the way it was presented and some of the examples of what/who constitutes an expert in the firearms industry.
He's embellishing and exaggerating a bit to make his point, so I can't be too mad at him. But yeah, it's still annoying the way he throws anyone who isn't at least 50 years old and doesn't have a bronze star under the bus. I've met a lot of young and ignorant salespeople at gun counters, but there are also a lot of college kids who just got back from overseas or have extensive firearms experience that does qualify them to bend your ear. It would be pretty silly to ignore anyone's advice without at least hearing it out and considering its validity.
I think he's more so trying to take the piss out of the Joe & Schmo Tactical videos that you see made by guys who never explain their backgrounds, as well as the "tactical pistol/rifle/shotgun/barrel roll" courses you see offered at the local gun store by the 300 pound owner (and I have indeed seen that one).
StagLefty
02-27-2015, 08:44
This is what I do when in doubt :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08kSncpUnUo
I always keep things in perspective by remembering how stupid the average person is and realizing half of the population is below average so they aren't even that smart.
I just assume anyone I meet is a total retard until they prove me wrong.
Hey, me too! I didn't used to be this way, but experience has taught me differently, and the garbage we elect every two to four years. How can one not look at the masses as asses (and ever-widening ones at that)?
Brevity is the soul of wit, a phrase Nutnfancy seems never to have heard. Dude, edit your self-indulgently long videos down to 5-8 minutes, tops, and maybe you'd get more views. Watching you blather on about this or that for 25+ minutes is far more time out of what's left of my life than I care to give you. If you can't see the wisdom in what I say, you need an objective editor to show you the error of your ways.
I think he's more so trying to take the piss out of the Joe & Schmo Tactical videos that you see made by guys who never explain their backgrounds, as well as the "tactical pistol/rifle/shotgun/barrel roll" courses you see offered at the local gun store by the 300 pound owner (and I have indeed seen that one).
How about when shooting various rifle rounds into a tree constitutes as an official penetration test? :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=547BKysByqM
ZERO THEORY
02-27-2015, 09:32
How about when shooting various rifle rounds into a tree constitutes as an official penetration test? :D
Man, I could rip that on a few different levels. Firstly, it's scientifically inadmissible. The trees are not controlled for circumference, composition, age, et. al. And utilizing the same tree would compromise the structural integrity of the test subject. There's no way to have a benchmark or control group.
Secondly, it's apples to oranges, unless you're looking for data on round behavior in trees. Seeing what round X does in a tree tells me nothing about how it's going to behave in tissue. The efficacy of the round and its behavior might very well have polarizing effects when introduced to separate media.
Lastly, it's not an experiment that needed to be done. We have data on the behavior of countless rounds of various weights, shapes, and compositions available already. Nothing new is being learned here in relation to penetration in a live fire scenario. Unless each round was a prototype, it's just beating a dead horse.
Great-Kazoo
02-27-2015, 09:39
You know you like JBL. :D
The 901's were OK and groundbreaking in their time. Then again, Bose made a decent amp back then too.
See above re: JBL.
Denon, Bang & Olufsen. Marantz, Teac, Close the thread.
Rucker61
02-27-2015, 11:15
Denon, Bang & Olufsen. Marantz, Teac, Close the thread.
I'd rather have ATC, Genelec, Focal, Neuman, Dynaudio or Event.
This is what I do when in doubt :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08kSncpUnUo
You owe me a new keyboard, dammit! [Eek3] [LOL]
Me thinks the audiophiles need to get a nice little hotel room [fag]
Mick-Boy
02-27-2015, 17:28
When I first read this article my response was along the lines of ".,....yeah....so?". It has since been posted as gospel
(as in Truth with a capital T straight from the mouth of St. John Moses Browning) by a couple of guys that I know. I've re-read it and my response hasn't changed a lick.
Everyone born with a set of testicles thinks they can shoot, fight, drive, drink and f*ck as good or better than any man (Dunning-Kruger effect?). The internet has given all these self-appointed experts more of a voice and the ability to veer wildly out of their lane. Caveat emptor as always. Know who you're taking advice from and even then take it with a grain of salt (if not the whole bag). There's enough quality information available that you only have yourself to blame if you jump on something based on a one week expert in a topic.
Everyone born with a set of testicles thinks they can shoot, fight, drive, drink and f*ck as good or better than any man (Dunning-Kruger effect?).
I don't feel like I'm great at any of those things.... I must really be awesome... ;-)
The internet has given all these self-appointed experts more of a voice and the ability to veer wildly out of their lane.
Yep.
I actually miss the 70's and 80's when there was no internet or social media.
Denon, Bang & Olufsen. Marantz, Teac,, Yamaha, JBL. Close the thread.
FIFY
I have zero engineering complaints with any Magpul or Larue product that I've purchased, and those are two of the biggest fanboy magnets.
And for those sidetracking this thread, all my budget (and neighbors' patience) tolerates is NAD for the juice and Paradigm for the boom. Oh, and a Denon 5-disc changer from ~1992 that just keeps working.
Came across this article and I say amen, with one caveat... I am a hobbyist. That's it. I embrace that. I am fine with hobbyists voicing their opinion and their advice, as long they are not pretending to be something else. Which I think is part of the point of the piece.
http://www.havokjournal.com/nation/retardation-firearms-industry/
Nothing wrong with with that at all. I think you interpreted the article well.
Great-Kazoo
03-02-2015, 17:18
And for those sidetracking this thread,
Sidetracking ? SQUIRREL.........................
From the thread title, I thought this was going to be a discussion of Kel-Tec.
[Coffee]
I'm a big fan of the "speak softly and carry a big stick" philosophy when it comes to dealing with the firearms community in general.
Mick-Boy
03-02-2015, 20:38
I generally feel the same way. One of the realizations I came to when I first started posting on gun/tactical message boards was that there are a lot of people who like to talk about guns/shooting/tactical-ninja-super-karate.... Not nearly as many people who want to actually GO shoot/fight/train. A lot of show and not much go seems to be the norm.
Honey Badger282.8
03-02-2015, 21:50
I get the point the author was trying to make but his delivery was terrible. Mat Best did a much better job at getting the point across.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBaISwLnrgo
Freedom tits does soften the butthurt a bit.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.