View Full Version : Too many options, need help on a beginner Bench rifle
I was dead set on a Remington 700p (PSS, or Police) in .308 caliber. I finally tracked down someone that was most helpful yet completely not helpful. He works for RSR Group and does all the military sales, along with testing and competition shooting and has talked me out of what I wanted. So I come here for more opinions to point me in a direction.
Gun application: Mainly play at the range 500yrds and under, and if I feel froggy take it into the woods. I know I will have this gun for years, and I'm sure it will be used/abused.
My Skill: I better than someone just starting out, but I would say I don't have any skill.
My original plan was Rem 700p - has a 20" fluted barrel, and a much better stock than the standard SPS.
Now I was told to think about these options
Rem 700 5r **BOUGHT THIS**
Steyr pro-hunter
FN Spr a1
Springfield M1A
CZ
Anyone want to concur saying if I'm already spending $900 on the Rem 700p, should I consider something else? My original budget was $1200, I was hoping that would include a Zeiss or Bushnell Elite scope.
**EDIT**
Bought a SWFA 16x42 but it is on back order, and after calling today, it is pushed until July!!!! Can I effectively drop down to a 10x or 12x and be able to hit MOA at 500 yards? Or will I need higher magnification?
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53712.aspx
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-12x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53714.aspx
quickdraw
02-27-2015, 21:46
Call Chuck at Mac's Gunworks. He can get you in a Rem 700 with aftermarket stock and bottom metal for $995. Tell him RJ Sent you.
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Stick with Remington for aftermarket support.
XC700116
03-02-2015, 10:52
Rem 700 5r or what RJ said, I'd stay away from the other stuff since if you decide to change or upgrade something later, the options are pretty limited.
Call Chuck at Mac's Gunworks. He can get you in a Rem 700 with aftermarket stock and bottom metal for $995. Tell him RJ Sent you.
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What is the "bottom metal?" I can get a 700p that's already aluminum bedded - if that's what bottom metal is.
Rem 700 5r or what RJ said, I'd stay away from the other stuff since if you decide to change or upgrade something later, the options are pretty limited.
I don't plan on changing anything out really. Just looking to replace a .308 that I've had since I was 17. It will get more range time then in the woods. Someone told me that the Steyr will not walk if I am doing continuous shooting, but the REM or even a TC would start to walk if I am putting lead down range fast.
Precision rifle and shooting fast are different requirements . First you got to figure out what direction you want to go .
Bottom metal refers to the magazine parts that are on the bottom of the stock .
I want to be able to send 10 rounds down range without it starting to walk. I shoot my savage and the first shot with a cold barrel is low left. The next 3 are on and then after that it starts to walk. I would like a rifle that will be on target first shot and can stay on target if I shoot 10 in a row.
By "fast" I mean 1-3 a minute. I have an AR for rapid.
Both the 5r and the PSS are capable of that , the rifle that Mac's would put together also . An M1A is a pain in the ass to put a scope on and depending on the rifle can shift POI as it gets hot . The Steyr is a hunting gun and not really suited as a target rifle . The FN is a solid gun . Haven't had any experience with the CZ rifles other than 22's .
If you're insistent on not making changes to whatever you buy, then buy whichever has a stock that fits you best. Better yet, buy one with at least an adjustable cheek piece. A floating chin weld is not beneficial to accuracy. That's actually the reason I suggested Remington. There are many aftermarket stocks available and you should be able to find one that fits.
The comb on the McMillan on the FN might be high enough depending on what rings you use.
Colorado Osprey
03-02-2015, 20:31
I want to be able to send 10 rounds down range without it starting to walk. I shoot my savage and the first shot with a cold barrel is low left. The next 3 are on and then after that it starts to walk. I would like a rifle that will be on target first shot and can stay on target if I shoot 10 in a row.
By "fast" I mean 1-3 a minute. I have an AR for rapid.
That savage walking is a pretty easy fix. You have too much pressure on the barrel. Free float it and bed your recoil lug/action and it will settle down. Way cheaper fix than a new rifle.
500 yards is pretty easy for a Savage to shoot fairly accurately.. maybe even better than you can presently shoot.
Are there better rifles, sure.... but I'm not sure you need one to shoot 500 yards. My son is currently shooting a factory model 111 in a .270 WIN with a slight stock upgrade (Boyds $100) and can easily hit 6" steel plates at 400 yards with a Leupold 3-9x40 Vari X II. He is 13 years old.
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Floated from factory. I can hit a gong at 550 with it. When I was sighting in with a new round, it would be okay for the first couple rounds then start walking. I had my buddy check it - who can cloverleaf at 250 with his TC and it would walk on him. I thought about Bedding it, but figured if I am going to do something, do it right - buy a quality rifle first, and then work on it.
Both the 5r and the PSS are capable of that , the rifle that Mac's would put together also . An M1A is a pain in the ass to put a scope on and depending on the rifle can shift POI as it gets hot . The Steyr is a hunting gun and not really suited as a target rifle . The FN is a solid gun . Haven't had any experience with the CZ rifles other than 22's .
I was told that they steyr is a hunting rifle, but will put the round on target - doesn't matter if the barrel is hot or cold.
FN I think might be too much of an "assult rifle" similar to an AR. Same with an M1A, but was told the m1a is similar to the REM 700 - you can find parts and stuff everywhere.
The 700p is a solid rifle, the 5r is just a barrel upgrade. The "mac's" I can only assume would be a HBar, bedded stock, and the "bottom metal" - is that where it's converted to have actual magazines rather than a drop plate, or in-stock magwell?
XC700116
03-02-2015, 21:10
Freely floating barrel, good bedding, and a heavy barrel (quality also has something to do with that) will get you there. A sporter contour is going to heat up much faster and more apt to walk on you. Some won't but some will.
As for the upgrading thing, flexibility is a huge thing, I have a real soft spot for Browning A-bolts, but honestly there isn't shit you can do to them besides re-barreling (and there's very few smiths that will touch them) to upgrade them in the future. You may not plan on changing something now, but you might find down the road you need to do something to fix an ergo issue in your shooting. It's just something about keeping your options open.
You already got the answer in Your possession . Restock , rebarrel , and upgrade the mounts and glass on the Savage and drive on . Aught to be able to make this happen well within your budget .
I thought of doing that, but then I still have my basic savage action and trigger.
I Looked at a shillen barrel, bed the stock - didn't think the mount and glass was an issue.
Everyone has there favorites. Everyone has an opinion. Triggers can be replaced, actions can be worked on. For what it worth, I took a Savage model 110 6.5x284 Norma out to 1 mile. Factory barrel, factory trigger, factory stock, homemade Kydex cheek riser and hand loads. Was it repeatable? No. Was it fun? Yes. It shoot a 3 round group at 1,000 yards at 1 3/8". Great conditions for sure. Anyway, do what makes you happy and have fun!
I think savages are butt ugly , but they shoot .
The stock on that rifle is the same injection molded junk that is on the SPS's , not worth putting time or money in to , get one of the fiberglass stocks with a bedding block .
One piece mounts are always better than 2 piece mounts in my book , find the thread on scope base bedding and read that . The scope on the gun already is a hunting scope and really not cut out for duty on a precision rifle where you will be dialing your adjustments , the turrets need to track right and be repeatable which is what you really get with the higher end scopes .
The trigger in the picture looks like the old pre accu trigger trigger . I like that trigger better than the accu trigger and it is easily adjustable , similar to a Winchester trigger .
I think savages are butt ugly , but they shoot .
The stock on that rifle is the same injection molded junk that is on the SPS's , not worth putting time or money in to , get one of the fiberglass stocks with a bedding block .
One piece mounts are always better than 2 piece mounts in my book , find the thread on scope base bedding and read that . The scope on the gun already is a hunting scope and really not cut out for duty on a precision rifle where you will be dialing your adjustments , the turrets need to track right and be repeatable which is what you really get with the higher end scopes .
The trigger in the picture looks like the old pre accu trigger trigger . I like that trigger better than the accu trigger and it is easily adjustable , similar to a Winchester trigger .
Yes it's the not accu-trigger, and we have it adjusted to about 3.5lbs with almost no creep - I was surprised as how easily adjustable it was, and how it turned out.
Maybe I will have to take the Savage to a local gunsmith and see what they think of it. And then could spend the extra cash on a good scope instead of a $250 basic scope.
Have you already read the thread about Spleify's Savage in .223? I think it is in the precision section. Give it a look as it may have info that could apply to your rifle.
Once you start down the precision road you'll realize everything on it "can" be an issue. Its all about repeat ability and minimizing variables.
that being said ... everybody that's posted here is right about one thing or another so take all the advice and just do what you think and what your wallet thinks is best, and have fun!
Call Chuck at Mac's Gunworks. He can get you in a Rem 700 with aftermarket stock and bottom metal for $995. Tell him RJ Sent you.
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Giving him a call tomorrow to see what he can build. I am assuming that the $995 is for a basic SPS with upgrades, so I'm leaning more towards a 5r
Once you start down the precision road you'll realize everything on it "can" be an issue. Its all about repeat ability and minimizing variables.
that being said ... everybody that's posted here is right about one thing or another so take all the advice and just do what you think and what your wallet thinks is best, and have fun!
I know I need to work on repeating my shot. since I am just starting out, I think I am going with the REM700 because of all the options and future upgrades.
Thanks everyone for all the advice. I will post a picture with what I come up with.
Scopes.... can I get a decent one for around $250-$300?
quickdraw
03-05-2015, 21:07
Mac's Cub: Remington 700, PTG bottom metal, Greybull Precision stock, Accurate 5 rd mag, 3lb trigger job, $100 off first barrel change.
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quickdraw
03-05-2015, 21:09
Super Sniper only reliable $300 scope. I'd suggest 16x.
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quickdraw
03-05-2015, 21:18
Just delivered a Mac's Cub rifle to ShooterReady if you wanna look at it.
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Decent scope under $300 for a precision rifle? Simple answer - "no"
Just delivered a Mac's Cub rifle to ShooterReady if you wanna look at it.
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Would love to, but that'd be a long drive from Wichita Falls Texas :D
It's a standard barrel, not Hbar correct?
quickdraw
03-05-2015, 21:48
Remington "Magnum" contour. 0.640 IIRC.
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Decent scope under $300 for a precision rifle? Simple answer - "no"
Super Sniper only reliable $300 scope. I'd suggest 16x.
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Guess I should have stated.... I have absolutely no knowledge of how to adjust a scope for each shot. I used to my standard hunting scope, zeroed at 200, know what it did at 100yrds, and then just add some Kentucky windage as necessary. So even those SWFA SS were more advance than what I'm used too.
Like quickdraw said, the SWFA Super Sniper is a great optic for $300. But I'd go with the 20x fixed power. Can't beat it for the price.
Delfuego
03-06-2015, 12:38
But I'd go with the 20x fixed power. 20x is too much for a fixed power scope, you'll have a hell of a time finding targets. I would go 10x / 12x / 16x at the most
Magnification is a huge personal preference deal , everybody is different . My 5 - 25 lives at 20 - 25 most of the time , only time I turn it down is shooting positional stuff . Use the scope turret as a front sight , find the target with your eyes and center it over the turret then look through the glass .
Magnification is a huge personal preference deal , everybody is different . My 5 - 25 lives at 20 - 25 most of the time , only time I turn it down is shooting positional stuff . Use the scope turret as a front sight , find the target with your eyes and center it over the turret then look through the glass .
I am usually sitting at 9x, so maybe I will go with the 16. I do use the same technique, have both eyes open can find target, then look through scope once on target.
I've never turned mine down below 24x . Same technique as you guys, locate target over the scope and then glass it.
Edited my first post,
Since the SWFA SS 16x42 is back ordered until July, could I drop down to a 10x or 12x, and still effectively hit MOA at 500 yards? I know I was told to buy a 16x as minimum, but is it worth the wait? My budget was under $400 for rings and scope. I got the SWFA 16x42 with Burris XTR rings, and badger covers for $386. Should I shop around for something else, drop down to the lower power, or just shut up and wait?
I have two of the 16x's and one 20X. I wish they were all 20X. Just go up in magnification.
I have two of the 16x's and one 20X. I wish they were all 20X. Just go up in magnification.
How is it to shoot at shorter distances? i.e. 100-200?
It requires you to line up the rifle as mentioned, but I have no issues with it. My 5-25 Steiner spends nearly its entire life at 25X. It's a training/practice issue. You'll catch on fast.
It requires you to line up the rifle as mentioned, but I have no issues with it. My 5-25 Steiner spends nearly its entire life at 25X. It's a training/practice issue. You'll catch on fast.
I have been messing around practicing with a pellet gun. Scope left on 9x, and targets at 50 yards. Left eye finds the target and matches crosshairs to it, then focus thru scope on 9x power on target.
I would just be afraid of what 20x would look like at 100 yards and a paper target, or a p-dog.
Don't be. 20X is not all that much magnification. I used to keep the 20X in a QD mount so I could swap it around on AR's to do load development. It worked better than the $1,700 3-15 I keep on one of them. The 20X now lives on my 22 trainer and I regularly shoot that at ranges from 50 to 250 yards.
If you were contemplating a fixed 40X scope, I'd be the first guy in line trying to talk you out of it. 20X will be easy.
Don't be. 20X is not all that much magnification. I used to keep the 20X in a QD mount so I could swap it around on AR's to do load development. It worked better than the $1,700 3-15 I keep on one of them. The 20X now lives on my 22 trainer and I regularly shoot that at ranges from 50 to 250 yards.
If you were contemplating a fixed 40X scope, I'd be the first guy in line trying to talk you out of it. 20X will be easy.
Thanks.
Will anyone else second his opinion?
Sure, 20x at 100yrds is pretty mild
XC700116
05-08-2015, 21:22
I have been messing around practicing with a pellet gun. Scope left on 9x, and targets at 50 yards. Left eye finds the target and matches crosshairs to it, then focus thru scope on 9x power on target.
I would just be afraid of what 20x would look like at 100 yards and a paper target, or a p-dog.
Don't worry about it, I do all my load testing at full power at 100 yds with a 5-20 and a 5-25, there's times I wish I had more.
Only time I've said to myself "this is too much , pull it back" is shooting a friends variable to 40x at 100 yrds.
DONE! Thanks all for the advice. I will call SWFA and see if I can switch to a 20x and get it shipped out.
Turned out that they got a shipment in, and had enough to fill my order. Got it all Mounted it. I will test it out Memorial Day weekend.
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