View Full Version : So Baltimore Riots
Do you think things will get worse when the cops are proven innocent?
Anyone else things will get worse as summer drags on?
"Summer is coming"
buffalobo
05-03-2015, 07:01
We presume they are innocent until a jury renders a verdict after consideration of evidence presented during a trial.
It doubtful said trial will happen any time soon.
That said, the "situation" will get worse as the summer passes.
Things are going to get worse no matter what verdict is delivered.
The Baltimore city government failed to protect its own police officers, the private property of citizens, they failed to uphold the rule of law, I'm sure there are other things they failed at. Almost the same thing happened in Ferguson. Appeasement didn't work for Neville Chamberlain on the continental scale, I cannot understand why anyone would think appeasement will work on a smaller scale in the city.
Some people have said that Denver/Aurora would handle it differently but I have my doubts. When a person who operates outside the law in a normal situation is given even more latitude in an abnormal situation then we get Baltimore. There is no reason to think that Denver/Aurora are any different.
Keep in mind that your rights, your loved ones, and your property have no value to the government especially when the government is presented with an opportunity to display a little favoritism towards one of the protected classes. The police aren't at fault, the people at fault are the 'crats who give the orders from their ivory towers. If you're angry direct your anger towards the faceless 'crats because they're the ones responsible for these situations.
Prepare accordingly.
BPTactical
05-03-2015, 09:06
^^^^
Robert has a certain degree of wisedom.
Stay frosty for the Long, Hot Summer
The idea that cops can do no wrong is what caused this whole thing. This started and will end with Cops and their actions (or inaction). The thought that 'crats' should protect them when SOMEBODY is at fault for a man in protective custody dying is repulsive and unAmerican. The police force failed (repeatedly) and is being held accountable. They will get their day in court as they should. Cops should be held to a higher standard, not lower. The British wanted to have everybody obey the laws that were stacked against us. They wanted us to accept their authority as thugs and bully's because they had laws. Well, the power has and always will sit with the people not THUGs who use their granted/delagated power against those same people. Cops as bully's has never been acceptable and killing a man over a stop deemed unlawful is bullying.
BTW: Cops are the Government. Are cops supposed to be a "protected class"?
your property have no value to the government especially when the government is presented with an opportunity to display a little favoritism towards one of the protected classes.
To be clear:I am not saying lawlessness is OK. What I am saying is that cops are not above the law. They can't use the law as a shield. When they think they are..... the people have every right to do whatever they can to make that understood regardless of what is on paper. If you don't understand that..... We know what side you are on from history and the Constitution.
Things are going to get worse no matter what verdict is delivered.
The Baltimore city government failed to protect its own police officers, the private property of citizens, they failed to uphold the rule of law, I'm sure there are other things they failed at. Almost the same thing happened in Ferguson. Appeasement didn't work for Neville Chamberlain on the continental scale, I cannot understand why anyone would think appeasement will work on a smaller scale in the city.
Some people have said that Denver/Aurora would handle it differently but I have my doubts. When a person who operates outside the law in a normal situation is given even more latitude in an abnormal situation then we get Baltimore. There is no reason to think that Denver/Aurora are any different.
Keep in mind that your rights, your loved ones, and your property have no value to the government especially when the government is presented with an opportunity to display a little favoritism towards one of the protected classes. The police aren't at fault, the people at fault are the 'crats who give the orders from their ivory towers. If you're angry direct your anger towards the faceless 'crats because they're the ones responsible for these situations.
Prepare accordingly.
Civil discourse is appreciated. Lack of civility will not be tolerated. Proceed accordingly. [rules]
Aloha_Shooter
05-03-2015, 13:21
Personally, I think these incidents are being fed the same way the bogus Occupy movement was and for the same reason: to create an artificial sense of outrage over the next year and inflame a base of voters in preparation for the 2016 elections. Look for a summer, fall, and winter of building outrage that enables the Left to pile on and drive "conversations" during the spring primary season. I further expect something to happen in late fall that would prompt increased scrutiny of "right-wing" groups by the DOJ and IRS.
Personally, I think these incidents are being fed the same way the bogus Occupy movement was and for the same reason: to create an artificial sense of outrage over the next year and inflame a base of voters in preparation for the 2016 elections. Look for a summer, fall, and winter of building outrage that enables the Left to pile on and drive "conversations" during the spring primary season. I further expect something to happen in late fall that would prompt increased scrutiny of "right-wing" groups by the DOJ and IRS.
Absolutely. Never let a crisis go to waste, if there isn't a crisis then create one.
The roots of these riots go farther back in history than the incidents that they surround. The roots are in the progressive (D) (communist) left's assumption that people are stupid and need assistance from the government. The left has fostered this idea since the 1960s in their "war on poverty" which like all other leftist programs is an abject failure. Thanks to the communists we have a colossal government infrastructure that does nothing except promote the "victim" mentality which in turns grows this infrastructure because they can never steal enough money from the rest of us to fund their victims.
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/09/the-war-on-poverty-after-50-years
What people need is an opportunity to succeed or fail on their own merit, and if they fail they need the emotional and perhaps very temporary financial support to get back up and try again. Some people will fail their entire lives, that is life though, nothing we can do about it except to encourage them to try again, hand out not handout.
Personally, I think these incidents are being fed the same way the bogus Occupy movement was and for the same reason: to create an artificial sense of outrage over the next year and inflame a base of voters in preparation for the 2016 elections. Look for a summer, fall, and winter of building outrage that enables the Left to pile on and drive "conversations" during the spring primary season. I further expect something to happen in late fall that would prompt increased scrutiny of "right-wing" groups by the DOJ and IRS.
It's sad that people fail to realize that in most of these troubled areas, the Liberals control everything and yet we still have these issues they will capitalize on and get a win/win all around.
I imagine the rioting will quiet down a good bit in the near future, but once the trial gets close they will be back at it demanding justice and more than likely either way the case(s) go, there will be riots, just a lot larger level if no convictions happen.
Great-Kazoo
05-03-2015, 18:54
I imagine the rioting will quiet down a good bit in the near future, but once the trial gets close they will be back at it demanding justice and more than likely either way the case(s) go, there will be riots, just a lot larger level if no convictions happen.
There will be "civil unrest" no matter the outcome. OUTRAGE from the administration, his "confidant" for Racial Equality, the people in "economically depressed areas", media you name them. They will be outspoken no matter what verdict is returned.
The jurors have a tough road ahead (when picked) not to mention intimidation from that voting equality group too. It's a cluster fuk of giganormous proportions.
So anyone else thing this will be a "hand up dont shoot" event and when justice is served things will explode like the Rodney King riots?
"Everyone looks black or white through a Thermal Scope"-Some guy
So anyone else thing this will be a "hand up dont shoot" event and when justice is served things will explode like the Rodney King riots?
Exactly what kind of justice are you imagining?
I anticipate this will turn out similar to LA after the Rodney King thing... They overcharged these officers, I doubt the murder charges will stick, people will get upset again.... End result: Baltimore burns.
Exactly what kind of justice are you imagining?
The cops getting off because they may have had nothing to do with it...Or they did get prison time and they riot anyways..
I anticipate this will turn out similar to LA after the Rodney King thing... They overcharged these officers, I doubt the murder charges will stick, people will get upset again.... End result: Baltimore burns.
To be honest it would help..But then again they might move...
Baltimore DA should have waited on pressing charges until every lead was followed...but their political agenda outweighs the truth and the justice that is found in the truth.
Or... They could just being doing their jobs. It seems so appropriate.... We don't have all the information, they do, so we just have to go with the process. This is the common litany when the cop is getting off.... Correct? Something is wrong in that PD, the DOJ just got called in on them.
Baltimore DA should have waited on pressing charges until every lead was followed...but their political agenda outweighs the truth and the justice that is found in the truth.
Or... They could just being doing their jobs. It seems so appropriate.... We don't have all the information, they do, so we just have to go with the process. This is the common litany when the cop is getting off.... Correct? Something is wrong in that PD, the DOJ just got called in on them.
Based on your previous posts, I am assuming you believe there is something wrong in every PD.
I believe that there is something wrong and could be made better in every human endeavor... including the Department of Justice.
Time will tell and history will judge who did the best thing in this situation. We are just the old men sitting around the barber shop complaining about stuff.
Actually no, I think most cops and even PD's are trying to do the right thing. I think that, as with any organization, there are bad apples. I also think that everybody makes mistakes, cop or not. When those mistakes happen, they have to be addressed and if found to be continual, as with a bad apple, removed. Notice that works for both a cop and non-cop. Cops should not get a pass and actually should be held to a higher standard than the average citizen. It is after all, literally, a cops job to know the laws and rules. If they are not held acountable, that becomes a norm. That leads to a bad PD because there becomes a false belief they are above the law and can get away with it. Look at the recent (I think it was) Pueblo sheriff (correct me if I am wrong). That PD was being led by a bad apple and it spread. The issue gets exacerbated in a metro due to the size of both the police force and the citizenry. I think that PD's cannot be independant when thier own are involved. Why would a PD be any different than any other organization. Cop misconduct has to be investigated as independently as possible. Lives are at stake in many instances. Cops should be able to defend themselves but that does not extend to ANY influence on the judgment past what a normal citizen would have. A cop will lie to protect themselves just as much as any other citizen when their own ass is on the line. I disagree with the thin-blue line mentality of protecting your own over letting justice be servered. I disagree with cops having ANY privacy where the job is concerned above what a normal citizen has. I think that the new cameras are a great idea. I hope it comes down to if the cop does not have video or some other proof, charges are generally dropped. They should always allow videos of what they are doing. If they are doing it right it will only help them. That is the heart of innocent until PROVEN guilty.
I would hate to see what it would be like if there were not cops out there. They see things nobody should see and many times get little support or understanding from people. I think this sometimes leads to an us vs them mentality..... "THEY don't understand what WE go through" and that leads to mistakes. I think this is why there is such a big case for more community policing. We all want Andy Griffith, we don't want Barney.
I am watching a story on Tommy Norman on CNN.......... That is what people want. That is what people should think of when they hear the word 'Cop'. You might want to look it up.
Based on your previous posts, I am assuming you believe there is something wrong in every PD.
I believe that there is something wrong and could be made better in every human endeavor... including the Department of Justice.
Time will tell and history will judge who did the best thing in this situation. We are just the old men sitting around the barber shop complaining about stuff.
Singlestack
05-06-2015, 17:02
If these cops get railroaded, it will send a strong message to not be a cop in the big liberal cities - since the city leadership (mayor, prosecutor, etc) do NOT have their back. I would think this would either reduce the number or quality of officers. Perhaps this creates the problem that the feds conveniently "fix" with a national police force (at least in the bigger cities)?
Just to be clear on this, does anyone really think that a guy in handcuffs broke his own neck?
I know all matter of things are possible, but it just seems ridiculous to me that a guy dies in police custody, and the knee jerk reaction of people is, "Well, clearly he broke his own neck!" I get that people here will tend to lean in the opposite direction of whatever the perceived stance of the public is, and that emotions are raw because of the rioting; but it is insane to automatically assume that someone broke his own neck. Even if he just wasn't not properly secured in the vehicle and was injured from sliding around the vehicle, there is still police culpability here.
They are culpable. I don't think an officer had hands on.. but just like falling down a set of stairs, or even off a chair, people can snap their neck. Typically while it only takes #15 of pressure to sever the spinal cord, it's not as simple as the movies make it look. There is technique to it. I don't see an officer even placing a knee on the back of his neck and snapping it w/o bouncing up and down. Do I see being bounced around in a metal cage off a bench at a weird angle as possible, yes.
I just HOPE one of the officers didn't have hands on in doing so.
Just to be clear on this, does anyone really think that a guy in handcuffs broke his own neck?
I know all matter of things are possible, but it just seems ridiculous to me that a guy dies in police custody, and the knee jerk reaction of people is, "Well, clearly he broke his own neck!" I get that people here will tend to lean in the opposite direction of whatever the perceived stance of the public is, and that emotions are raw because of the rioting; but it is insane to automatically assume that someone broke his own neck. Even if he just wasn't not properly secured in the vehicle and was injured from sliding around the vehicle, there is still police culpability here.
You are responsible for providing reasonable care for anyone in your custody. You can't let the victims of the suspect's crime come beat the tar out of him while he is in your custody. That doesn't mean the Dallas police officer transporting Lee Harvey Oswald should be sued or prosecuted for what Jack Ruby did. You should not drop them on their face while they are cuffed. That doesn't mean you have to wrench your back out while the subject intentionally kicks at you or picks up their legs as you walk them down stairs.
If someone has a medical event and it is unknown to the officers then it would be unreasonable to hold them responsible for damage as a result of the medical event. Example: Subject has just ingested a large quantity of drugs before the officers encounter and arrest the subject. Subject has just been placed in custody after a lengthy foot chase and appears to be flush and breathing heavily. Subject asks for an inhaler. Officers should ask dispatch to have EMS respond to evaluate subject before transport. While waiting for EMS, subject goes into cardiac arrest. Officers provide first aid to the level of their training and update dispatch so they can update EMS. If the subject dies before or after EMS arrives due to the cardiac arrest, then the officers should not be held accountable, either civilly or criminally for the death.
The purpose of the investigation and the trial will be to determine what the circumstances were with Gray and what the officers knew at the time. Did the officers break his neck? I don't know. Did Gray break his own neck? It doesn't seem likely but again, I don't know. Did Gray do something to make a previous spinal injury worse? I don't know. Did the wagon driver or arresting officers do something to break Gray's neck or make a previous spinal injury worse? I don't know. These are questions that will need to be answered by the prosecutor and proven to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt.
If anyone here knows the answers to these questions, I am reasonably certain that there are prosecutors and defense attorneys in Baltimore who would very much like to talk to you.
Anyone consider that mister Gray may have, indeed, been trying to injure himself while in custody? Looking for a fat check, maybe?
Maybe things went horribly wrong for him?
Couldn't control his movement, given the situation and environment?
Something to consider, from someone playing Devil's advocate.
Anyone consider that mister Gray may have, indeed, been trying to injure himself while in custody? Looking for a fat check, maybe?
Absolutely possible. The gap between trying to beat yourself up and breaking your neck is too far for me to automatically assume that whatever happened was 100% at his own hands. I guess that is about the most simple way I express my stance. Otherwise, I haven't made much comment because I don't know anything at all and I'm sure we'll all find out sooner or later. While I don't want to look like I'm defending rioters in anyway, I'm not ready to take the stance that he killed himself in an attempt to distance myself from the other camp.
Missed my point. Going for injury...Oops, wasn't completely healed from the surgery.
Or, may have caught an edge in the van.
I'm merely presenting possibilities.
And after re-reading your post, I'm not asking you to believe he set out to break his own neck. Think entitlement community.
Injured in po-po custody = fat check.
Certainly as much a possibility as anything else.
To be fair, he may have been boot-stomped by the local racist PD.
Formulate your own opinion.
No I saw you were playing advocate and was just restating my stance before someone thinks I'm defending anyone or anything.
Irving, was your baby donkey in Baltimore?
[dig]
I would hate to see what it would be like if there were not cops
I saw this lovely comment on an article about Baltimore.57957
hurley842002
05-06-2015, 20:05
I saw this lovely comment on an article about Baltimore.57957
Charge your phone Dave_L lol
Wow. Although I am sympathetic to the plight of our mistreated Native American population, I seriously doubt that poster could even tell you who Leonard Peltier is, much less any other Native American activists.
"We use your cause as a war cry,but we have no idea what you stood for"...
Fucking punks.
Charge your phone Dave_L lol
Hey you're not the boss of me...my wife is. :D
The division and tension in this country is growing exponentially and it worries me.
hurley842002
05-06-2015, 20:16
Hey you're not the boss of me...my wife is. :D
And your wife wants your phone to die so you'll get off the forum lol
And your wife wants your phone to die so you'll get off the forum lol
[ROFL2]
Hey you're not the boss of me...my wife is. :D
The division and tension in this country is growing exponentially and it worries me.
I see it growing and gaining speed as it grows too.
https://col129.afx.ms/att/GetInline.aspx?messageid=05330268-f725-11e4-941f-78e3b51aa67a&attindex=0&cp=-1&attdepth=0&imgsrc=cid%3aX.MA1.1431112966%40aol.com&cid=08bce5a79f661fc9&shared=1&hm__login=smokincruiser&hm__domain=msn.com&ip=10.148.44.8&d=d4749&mf=160&hm__ts=Sun%2c%2010%20May%202015%2022%3a39%3a46%20G MT&st=smokincruiser%402&hm__ha=01_792c0d336ca6de54788daffbb89e05f2d84afdb1 56d549a463157ca33c00afe8&oneredir=1
I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit...
So anyone else think their will be more major riots over the summer?
Great-Kazoo
05-17-2015, 12:54
I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit...
So anyone else think their will be more major riots over the summer?
Inner cities could go up in flames for all i care. The same apologist will spout the same shit, again. It's lack of jobs, racist government (while they are the same color and voting demographic) schools terrible (union ran) on and on and on.
https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.oVWtm%2blprX%2b0oFrrthFmgw&pid=15.1&P=0
The MO state .gov failed to come up with things to prevent another fergadishu. The state reps decried the lack of effort to GET SOMETHING DONE! yet most of these bomb throwers have been in office how long? NOW it's time to do something?
http://news.yahoo.com/missouri-lawmakers-pass-dozens-ferguson-inspired-bills-140754090.html
But Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal, a University City Democrat whose district includes Ferguson, said the selfishness of her colleagues on both sides of the aisle hampered progress on the deadly force measure.
"Of all the years to address the issues that happened because of Ferguson, this was the year and we had the attention of the Legislature," said Chappelle-Nadal, who spent days alongside protesters. "It's on their hands that there are people who could be killed this summer and the laws that are in statute right now are old and the people who shoot them may not ever be prosecuted."
Of course she's concerned about LE shootings. Never mind like Chicago, it's black on black crime. I guess #blacklives Don't Matter. Only politics.
So anyone else think their will be more major riots over the summer?
Yes.
What do you plan to do to prevent them from happening?
Some people just enjoy a train wreck.
kidicarus13
05-17-2015, 22:02
Yes.
What do you plan to do to prevent them from happening?
Some people just enjoy a train wreck.
Absolutely nothing. Watch FOX News. Enjoy knowing I worked hard and made good life decisions that kept me from living in hell hole in the first place.
Train wrecks happen, plan your life accordingly.
So you can plan your life to avoid all disasters both natural and man made? Outstanding!
Anytime, anyplace. Train wrecks happen, but some people root for them and revel in the suffering of others.
Unless all of your loved ones live in a compound with you, they live somewhere else. I know mine do. Some of mine live in Baltimore. I'm guessing we all have people somewhere that might be living in some hell hole by someone else's standards.
Be safe.
Yes.
What do you plan to do to prevent them from happening?
Some people just enjoy a train wreck.
Be on the roof of my home with a scoped Cetme if any rioting breaks out in my area...Then again nothing but Whites, Asians, and a few Hispanics in my neck.
So you can plan your life to avoid all disasters both natural and man made? Outstanding!
Anytime, anyplace. Train wrecks happen, but some people root for them and revel in the suffering of others.
Unless all of your loved ones live in a compound with you, they live somewhere else. I know mine do. Some of mine live in Baltimore. I'm guessing we all have people somewhere that might be living in some hell hole by someone else's standards.
Be safe.
I do not revel in people suffering, but I do enjoy them learning a lesson..Sadly
If they could learn lessons they would not have put the same party in power for the last 50 years.
What is really sad is we have to pay for this insanity...
Baltimore is more proof that everywhere where leftist rule they ruin, that they should not hold any major power or office that and people on welfare should not be allowed to vote while on welfare.
I do not revel in people suffering, but I do enjoy them learning a lesson.
I'm the same way. I'm also a proponent for bringing back natural selection. If the government assistance so many rely on didn't exist, how many would starve to death? Of course, I don't advocate killing off a bunch of our population, but charity would exist for that reason, giving people help when they're down, not providing a means for them to exist without helping themselves forever. Those too dumb to survive used to not, now they're allowed to survive and even to a lesser degree than most, thrive (and procreate). Baltimore/Ferguson/Chicago are prime examples.
What can we do to prevent it from happening?
Start voting for people who actually stand for law and order.
I know what I can do to protect myself if I'm caught out, I'm looking for information on what I can do if some a-hole is holding a molotov/weapon and looking at my house or my neighbor's house.
Great-Kazoo
05-18-2015, 09:16
What can we do to prevent it from happening?
Start voting for people who actually stand for law and order.
I know what I can do to protect myself if I'm caught out, I'm looking for information on what I can do if some a-hole is holding a molotov/weapon and looking at my house or my neighbor's house.
CSR use of deadly force allows one to use it in the case of arson.
You should be covered under
18-1-704 (A)
Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is
inadequate and:
(a.) The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that he or another person is in
imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury
OR more specifically 18-1-705 Physical use of Force in defense of a Premises
or when he reasonably believes it necessary to prevent what he reasonably believes to be an attempt by the trespasser to commit first degree arson
REMEMBER the key words are REASONABLY BELIEVE
Holy crap...... Did you just try to justify how a cop could "REASONABLY" shoot a citizen instead of using 'a lesser degree of force'!!!!
[fail]
CSR use of deadly force allows one to use it in the case of arson.
You should be covered under
18-1-704 (A)
Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is
inadequate and:
(a.) The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that he or another person is in
imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury
OR more specifically 18-1-705 Physical use of Force in defense of a Premises
or when he reasonably believes it necessary to prevent what he reasonably believes to be an attempt by the trespasser to commit first degree arson
REMEMBER the key words are REASONABLY BELIEVE
Holy crap...... Did you just try to justify how a cop could "REASONABLY" shoot a citizen instead of using 'a lesser degree of force'!!!!
[fail]
Holy Crap!!! Did you just knee-jerk a response without reading it, and the post leading up to it??
Unless my reading skills fail me, someone mentioned residence threatened by thug with Molotov, to which a response was made referencing statutes covering said situation.
But I did go to public school...
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