Herniated disc...

[Hotchef181818]

Any of you guys ever have one?

Ive vey been in considerable pain the past few days and barely able to walk so my doc scheduled an MRI for earlier today. Well the report came back and I have a large herniated disc with a fragment that is touching the nerve. I'm supposed to see a spine surgeon in the am to decide a course of action but holy shit does this hurt. I'm averaging 1000mg of hydracodone/4hrs in addition to anti-inflammatories and muscle relaxers. I've never been so uncomfortable in my life.

So have any of you been through this? What should I expect tomorrow ?

hopefully this makes sense, I'm a little loopy at the moment.

[UncleDave]

Been through it twice. If you have surgery you won't bee 100% for close to a year.

[Robb]

I never have but a good friend at work did. Hit him out of the blue, he just was going through his morning ritual getting ready for work and could tell something was wrong. He missed a couple weeks of work, had some cortizone and physical therapy and came back after two weeks. A little slow at first and he says he still has some nerve damage on one side, he can't walk on his heals, but otherwise he's back maybe just shy of 100%.
Hang in there and best of luck.

[jerrymrc]

See more than one surgeon. Least invasive other stuff first. Once you start there is no going back.

[UncleDave]

There was no way your friend had a fragment loose in there if he recovered that fast with a shot of cortisone.

[Hotchef181818]

I'm going to agree with Dave here. I've been dealing with 2 bulging discs for years. I've had some injuries that kept me in bed for 2 weeks but had 95% recovery. This is a whole different animal.


I never have but a good friend at work did. Hit him out of the blue, he just was going through his morning ritual getting ready for work and could tell something was wrong. He missed a couple weeks of work, had some cortizone and physical therapy and came back after two weeks. A little slow at first and he says he still has some nerve damage on one side, he can't walk on his heals, but otherwise he's back maybe just shy of 100%.
Hang in there and best of luck.

[RMAC757]

I'm going to agree with Dave here. I've been dealing with 2 bulging discs for years. I've had some injuries that kept me in bed for 2 weeks but had 95% recovery. This is a whole different animal.

Definitely get more than one opinion

[Hotchef181818]

Dave, any tricks to minimize the pain? I'm taking hydracodone, a muscle relaxer, anti inflammatory and icing it. I'm dying though and need to get through the night, appt is at 11am tomorrow.

[CHA-LEE]

Have you tried suspending your lower body in an attempt to basically put your spine in traction? Doing that should take some strain off of the bulging disk pushing into your nerves. This may only provide temporary relief though.

If they start talking about fusing disks take a long hard look into artificial disk replacement verses fusing.

[02ducky]

Stay infront of the pain, you probably already know that, but take those pain killers on time. Also might want to lay differently on your stomach. Good luck man.

[Hotchef181818]

Have you tried suspending your lower body in an attempt to basically put your spine in traction? Doing that should take some strain off of the bulging disk pushing into your nerves. This may only provide temporary relief though.

If they start talking about fusing disks take a long hard look into artificial disk replacement verses fusing.

Suspension on worked with the bulging disc flare ups. Nothing is working with this due to the fragment touching the nerve. The MRI showed a 11x19 mm herniation with a 5x9mm fragment. Both are the largest the doc saw today has seen. That's the reason I was able to get an appointment with the surgeon tomorrow morning.

[CHA-LEE]

I don't know if this helps or not, but I had ZERO luck with using muscle relaxers for disk issues. For me using muscle relaxers actually made the pain worse because the little muscle control I did have to try and maintain a comfortable position was lost and it would end up putting me in a more disk/nerve pinching situation.

I had the best luck with anti inflammatory meds (Alieve, Advil, etc) then when it got super painful I would hit the hardcore pain meds.

[rondog]

Good luck to ya man! I've had two major spine surgeries, but not for that specific problem. I have lumbar stenosis, basicially the spine compressing and causing bulging discs and nerve compression. It sucks donkey balls, but my surgeries helped a lot. Get something done, you don't want any permanent nerve damage because that never gets better.

Don't just fight the pain with drugs, if they say you need surgery, get it done! My wife and brother also had spine surgeries for what you have, and have been fine ever since. Theirs were many years ago. Surgery isn't fun, but it's one of those "buy once, cry once" situations.

Oh, I've found that ice packs are far better than a heating pad! Heat may feel good, but it only prolongs the pain. Ice gives real, actual relief. Get one of those big round ice bags, (like you see in cartoons of the hungover drunk with the ice thing on his head). Put in one bottle of rubbing alcohol, then fill with water and freeze it. It will freeze, but not freeze solid. It'll remain somewhat slushy and pliable, so you can mold it around, but it's still cold as hell.

I have one that's been in my freezer like this for 10 years! It's still just as pliable as the day I filled it. Works great, and is far more comfortable than a bunch of ice cubes. Been using it for 10 years, never had the cap off.

[Walker2970]

had surgery in OCT for my L1 S5 been back at work scene Jan with minor issues but was sore as Hell for a while Doc said he removed almost 2" of disk from the inside it will be slow going but I was in and out in like 3 hours for surgery and am in good shape now. If you want the surgeons name i can PM you the info

[CHA-LEE]

If you are in mega pain you may need a stronger prescription pain medication. They usually start people on Vicodin to see if that will manage the pain. The next step up is Percocet which to me was about twice as powerful as Vicodin. Above that is Dilaudid which is some serious stuff and it was about 3 - 4 times more powerful than Percoset. If you are in enough pain that Dilaudid isn't making it go away, you need to go to the ER immediately because you are pretty much screwed.

[wctriumph]

My wife has been going through this, among other thing, for quite a while now. She will be undergoing neck surgery to fix the issue in another couple of weeks.

[Hotchef181818]

The he problem is my regular spine doc is in Denver, I made the mistake of not getting set up with someone down here asap. I'm gonna pay the price until my 11am appt tomorrow since nobody would prescribe me any stronger today. Tomorrow should be fun.


If you are in mega pain you may need a stronger prescription pain medication. They usually start people on Vicodin to see if that will manage the pain. The next step up is Percocet which to me was about twice as powerful as Vicodin. Above that is Dilaudid which is some serious stuff and it was about 3 - 4 times more powerful than Percoset. If you are in enough pain that Dilaudid isn't making it go away, you need to go to the ER immediately because you are pretty much screwed.

[TheGrey]

Good luck! I don't have any information/advice, but I'm wishing you success and a pain-free spine.

[jerrymrc]

The he problem is my regular spine doc is in Denver, I made the mistake of not getting set up with someone down here asap. I'm gonna pay the price until my 11am appt tomorrow since nobody would prescribe me any stronger today. Tomorrow should be fun.

If you have to go to the ER and get a shot of Toradal. i have had a couple of issues with my back that no amount of Opioid pain killers would fix. Toradal is an ansaid and the the pills are useless but in IM is something to behold. Good for 6-8hrs of relief. Not something one can do all the time but worked wonders for me.

[Monky]

Chef... If you get new drugs tomorrow ask for soma as a muscle relaxer and tramadol/ultras as a pain killer. I broke my spinous process nearly 3 years ago now. No surgery as the vertebrae just shifted, no crack or fracture. I can't describe the pain and my back muscles all seized and pulled everything on every direction. Perc and codeine did nothing to touch the pain.

Man if you were still here I'd bring you some of the pile they gave me. This stuff worked. DO NOT attempt to do anything when you first take them. I was so out of it (but I barely drink)... But only on the first combo of it I took. After that I didn't feel anything, but I didn't drool on myself anymore.

I was on my ass for a solid month before they'd let me do anything. I saw 3 surgeons, just to see what they thought for treatment. Apparently I was lucky I was not paralyzed.

Listen to the docs. If you can avoid surgery, avoid it. It took me a year of pt. now I'm back to Olympic lifting where 2 years ago I could barely do a squat with the bar.


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.

[crays]

Inversion an option? Take the pressure off?
I have no valid input, just throwing something out there. Release the pressure of the compression?

[buffalobo]

Make sure to include both spine and neuro surgeon on team.

[killianak9]

See more than one surgeon. Least invasive other stuff first. Once you start there is no going back.

^^^^ This

Best wishes for you! I am trying to manage a bulging disk that is also pinching my sciatic nerve. The pain and random loss of feeling in my left leg sucks to say the least.
I'm getting a second opinion from a sciatica specialist. As mentioned before , the meds your given might not work and try to get them dialed in, I went through three different combos to finally get results.
Thoughts and prayers for you

Keep us posted

[rondog]

The he problem is my regular spine doc is in Denver, I made the mistake of not getting set up with someone down here asap. I'm gonna pay the price until my 11am appt tomorrow since nobody would prescribe me any stronger today. Tomorrow should be fun.
Tell 'im you want a jug of Percocet and a Pez dispenser!

[UncleDave]

My first surgery was for a torn disk and a herniated disk. With a torn loose piece of disk floating around, your only option is surgery to get relief. They have to remove the loose part or you will get nerve damage. The best was to deal with the pain is heat and ice alternated every 15 minutes, anti inflamitories (800 mg ibuprofen, prescription), if you are going with a Vicodin base pain med get norco, it is stronger and lasts longer. Also if you can get one a tens unit (electrical stimulation to the painful area) works well. Inversion therapy may help, but may not depending on the angle of the loose matter. One thing I did find helped was to lay with my back on the floor and my legs on the couch at a 90* angle, I would sleep like that when it was really bad. Get a neurosurgery consult and an orthopedic consult. Both of my surgeries were done by neurosurgeons, which was recommended by my grand father and uncle (both surgeons themselves). I have a friend of the family that sits on the accreditation board for a hospital in El Paso, TX. I'll ask him for recommendations in the Dallas/Ft Worth area if you want.



Dave

[UncleDave]

Tell 'im you want a jug of Percocet and a Pez dispenser!

I did that at one point, but perc's don't fit. Norco does [Beer]

[Fentonite]

Crap. I just wrote a long response, and my ipad burped and it went away. Anyway, short version:

I had a loose disc fragment in my lumbar spine in 2007, and lost function of my foot. A neurosurgeon fixed me, and function returned.

7 weeks ago I went back under the knife for a blown disc in my neck, which had caused loss of sensation in my right hand and crazy pain. 6 months of conservative therapy didn't help. Discectomy and fusion, and I'm on the mend.

I prefer a neurosurgeon to an orthopedic surgeon (7 year residency vs. 4-5). And let's face it, any neurosurgeon is smart enough to have been an orthopedist if he wanted to; the opposite is not true. Don't get me wrong, I know plenty of brilliant orthopedists, but for my spine, I use a neurosurgeon.

I'm not a fan of pain meds. Sure, they're important in a short term role, but they don't actually fix anything, and they do cause problems. I've seen countless patients who have totally screwed up their pain sensorium by overuse of narcs. With continued use, things that shouldn't hurt much become intolerable, while the pain meds simultaneously work less effectively (Opiate-induced hyperalgesia). Conversely, if you learn to accept and deal with pain, your pain tolerance increases. The first two days after my surgery, I took the percs exactly as prescribed. I declined any IV meds in the hospital. After the first two days, I tapered down quickly and was off them after the 4th day. I agree with staying ahead of the pain immediately post-op, but then get off them as soon as you can. My recovery accelerated dramatically once off the opiates. I did continue to use occasional flexeril for spasm if needed. I wouldn't use Soma, and the vast majority of health care providers won't prescribe it. It was even included in a recent paper titled "10 Scripts Never to Write".

Ice after surgery. Don't use heat until the surgeon clears it. Otherwise in the chronic setting, there's really no evidence that one is better than the other. Use what works best for you.

If you develop a loss of function (not just pain, but something doesn't work, i.e., you can't lift your foot, or you can't control your bowels or bladder normally), get to an ER.

Clearly, you will probably get as many different opinions as the number of people you ask. These opinions are mine, and worth exactly what you paid for them. Best of luck.

[Hotchef181818]

Thanks for all the info guys. I've been down the road with toradol many times in the past, it actually did nothing for me the last 2 shots. Maybe you can develop a tolerance for it. I've done Soma before as well, worked well. The one I haven't heard or yet is tramadol/ ultras. The biggest problem I have right now is my pills are about 2 years old and from what is considered a mild flareup so the pills are fairly weak. My doc prescribed 60 5/500 hydracodone which isn't cutting it and has too much acetametophine in it to take a bunch. I've done some research while being awake through the night and they now make 10/325 hydracodone plus there are stronger options available. My doc being in Denver, and not hearing from the surgeon till 8pm kinda limited my options for tonight as far as meds go. 7 more hours to go, then I'll hopefully have some relief....

[Hotchef181818]

My first surgery was for a torn disk and a herniated disk. With a torn loose piece of disk floating around, your only option is surgery to get relief. They have to remove the loose part or you will get nerve damage. The best was to deal with the pain is heat and ice alternated every 15 minutes, anti inflamitories (800 mg ibuprofen, prescription), if you are going with a Vicodin base pain med get norco, it is stronger and lasts longer. Also if you can get one a tens unit (electrical stimulation to the painful area) works well. Inversion therapy may help, but may not depending on the angle of the loose matter. One thing I did find helped was to lay with my back on the floor and my legs on the couch at a 90* angle, I would sleep like that when it was really bad. Get a neurosurgery consult and an orthopedic consult. Both of my surgeries were done by neurosurgeons, which was recommended by my grand father and uncle (both surgeons themselves). I have a friend of the family that sits on the accreditation board for a hospital in El Paso, TX. I'll ask him for recommendations in the Dallas/Ft Worth area if you want.



Dave

Lots of of good info in there, I'm seeing Dr Neil Shah, based out of Plano/Irving, any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[flogger]

Acupuncture works wonders!

I had a laminectomy (cut the back out of the vertebrae, no fusing) to repair a 'bulge' on my spinal chord. Before that I would be down for a week at a time with muscle spasms probably 6 times a year. Dr. Weider, of 'doctors choice mattress' fame did the surgery, rehab sucked but it worked.

Years later, a slip on the ice brought back the spasms. I went to a lady south of Castle Rock for acupuncture about 9 times and she worked wonders. I fell asleep every time I went under the pins, she was amazing! She also did large and small animals!

Good luck with your surgery, rehab is a must and keep the meds under control.

[airborneranger]

Do everything you can to get better before surgery. I went through shots, acupuncture and other various forms of rehab. I had surgery back in 08 and I am scheduled to go back for another in July. What works for one person may not work for you. I just recommend trying it all.

[MED]

I ruptured my L4 and my L5 is bulged; I learned ways to lay down that took pressure off my back while I healed. Fortunately or unfortunately I didn't "need" surgery at least according to Kaiser; I still think they were full of shit especially after I saw the MRI. I have problems with it when I overdue a lot of physical work. The inversion table really helps along with low impact cardio and stretching. As far as a course of action, just get a few opinions if you can. It will require ongoing PT and attention to what you do and don't do because it is really easy to re-injure them.

[Hotchef181818]

Just wanted to stop in and say thanks for al the info last night. Met with the orthopedic surgeon this morning and have a micro discectomy scheduled for next Thursday. New scripts are being filled so relief is on the way. He was pretty surprised that I walked to his office vs wheelchair, the herniation is actually 18mm with a 7mm fragment. I'll be so happy once this is over.

[Snowman78]

Good luck Sir! I hope you get some relief. My wife had a micro discectomy @ L5-S1 on 01-02-2015 she had a 9mm fragment. She got INSTANT relief!!! And is now doing great!!

[UncleDave]

Agreed. With that large of a fragment relief will be instant. I know it was for me.

[Hotchef181818]

I've got to say I don't know what's worse ....the stress from possibly losing my job we moved to Texas for, insurance companies, hospitals, upcoming surgery, having 2 kids under 2 yrs old or the pain from this. (Herniation was measure by the surgeon at 18mm with a 9mm fragment). Holy Hell life sucks right now !

I don't ever ask for help but but if you have a spare 2 minutes in your day id appreciate the prayers right now. Life is kicking my ass right now ...

[davsel]

Hang in there - two more days is all.
Prayers on the way.

[kwando]

Ouch! Hang in there Chef!

[Dave_L]

Prayers your way!

[UncleDave]

I've got to say I don't know what's worse ....the stress from possibly losing my job we moved to Texas for, insurance companies, hospitals, upcoming surgery, having 2 kids under 2 yrs old or the pain from this. (Herniation was measure by the surgeon at 18mm with a 9mm fragment). Holy Hell life sucks right now !

I don't ever ask for help but but if you have a spare 2 minutes in your day id appreciate the prayers right now. Life is kicking my ass right now ...

You hang in there, bro. Know a lot of us here are thinking and praying for you. Stay strong, it will work out.

[20X11]

Almost a year ago today, a chiropractic visit went terribly wrong and a disc in my neck was pressing against my spinal cord. DAMN that HURT!!! Two weeks of excrutiating pain later, I finally underwent surgery to repair/replace the the disc. The pain relief was IMMEDIATE. I woke up with pain from the surgery(they go in from the front, move the trachea aside, and do the work from there), but the surgery pain was FAR LESS than the pre-surgery pain. Within a few days, I was weaning off pain meds. Dr. wanted me on Valium(muscle relaxer) for a couple months, but I was back near 100% in a few weeks. We are praying for you. Get the surgery done, don't hesitate, don't look back.

[Snowman78]

"We are praying for you. Get the surgery done, don't hesitate, don't look back."

+1^

[Hotchef181818]

All good in the hood. Surgery went perfect as planned, at home already recovering. So damn happy to put that behind me. Everything's else will fall in line again.

Damn that pain was overwhelming.

[Irving]

Glad to hear it!

[20X11]

All good in the hood. Surgery went perfect as planned, at home already recovering. So damn happy to put that behind me. Everything's else will fall in line again.

Damn that pain was overwhelming.
Amen, brother

[davsel]

Welcome back to reality.
Glad it was a success.

[Fentonite]

Pictures, or it didn't happen. [Tooth]

Glad it went well!

[Hotchef181818]

I'm planning on getting the pic of the fragment on my follow up visit next week. The surgeon does about 40 of these a month and said this fragment was one of the 5 largest he's removed. It impressed him so much he took a pic and showed it to the wifey while I was coming around. I never did see it. If I can get the pics I'll post them up. The herniation itself at 18-19mm is impressive and I should be able to get that pic from my MRI disc.

The he whole event was eye opening for sure. I've been through some ups and downs in my life, from my son being born at 32 weeks unexpectedly from my wife developing HELP syndrome, to random injuries, to living with 2 bulging discs for the past 15 years(I'm only 35 now), to the financial stress involved in all of these, etc,etc.

Anyone who gets out there and earns a living every day goes through the struggles and makes the most of it. I've always said,meat doesn't kill me will make me stronger. This situation pushed me to the edge, and even a little past. I have a new house, in a new city,neither 2 kids under 2 yrs old and a wife that's depending on me to make this all work out. Suffering through the pain was horrible enough, but the "what if thoughts"'really got the best of me through this. Not being able to pick my kids up the last 2 weeks made me realize I need to work even harder to ensure my health for the upcoming years. It was the extra push I needed.

All in in all if this on top of my wife delivering our daughter in January doesn't destroy us financially and we can make it out the other side I have no doubt we can get through anything!


i want to add one small rant to this as a final note... Fuck insurance companies, they are only there to pay as little as possible when you need it most and make getting that from them difficult with constant phone calls and follow up. I hate them all!

[UncleDave]

Yeah most insurance companies you have to hound, and usually resubmit the bill a couple of times to get them to pay what they should. You have to be your own advocate. Glad to hear you are better. My first surgery with that fragment was at 19. I am now 42, so I have been dealing with back issue all my adult life. Keep your core strong and you can live a normal life. If you get that warning tinge, listen to your body. You will learn when your body says enough.