View Full Version : Arsenal AKs
So please explain to me this:
Las Vegas–based Arsenal, Inc. released a statement on April 29 saying that international military-delivery commitments have caused a halt in production of commercial versions of the company’s SLR-107FR and SLR-104UR rifles. From the release:
“Currently, all SLR-107FR models, including SLR107-31, SLR107-32, SLR107-33, SLR107-34, and SLR107-36 configurations, and all SLR-104UR models with standard 16-inch barrel, including SLR104-51, SLR104-52, SLR104-53, and SLR104-54 configurations are temporarily out. All units have been shipped out of Arsenal to our distributors. Please inquire with your dealers, distributors, or retail outlets for any availability for any units that are still in the pipeline.”
The reason, according to the statement: “Arsenal also has serious military obligations throughout the world. Due to the current situation in the world and the sharp increase in violence in places such as the Middle East and the demand to replenish countries’ militaries to constrain those who cause harm and evil, it has become necessary to shift Arsenal’s full concentration on fulfilling military contracts. This has caused a sharp, but hopefully short-lived, halt in production of commercial products.”
Now then...why is it the U.S. government is buying AKs here and shipping them over to Europe?
I have been told that in Africa you can buy an AK for $50 cash. China and most of the Soviet and former Soviet block should be able to supply them for cheaper than pretty much any U.S. Company...unless the goal is to strip them from the U.S. Civilian market.
Arsenal sells Bulgarian made AKs.. Apparently Bulgaria is selling elsewhere at the moment.
Arsenal sells Bulgarian made AKs.. Apparently Bulgaria is selling elsewhere at the moment.
This.
It isn't that they are not getting them from Bulgaria...it is that Arsenal is trying to fill contracts to the U.S. Governemnt
Where does it say U.S. Goverment? I see "military" in the text, but there are a lot of "militaries" in the world.
beast556
05-10-2015, 18:32
There just trying to keep there prices inflated. Dont belive ther BS, its all about money. They have been doing this same crap for years now, its how they keep there prices high and rifles in demand.
Great-Kazoo
05-10-2015, 19:35
It isn't that they are not getting them from Bulgaria...it is that Arsenal is trying to fill contracts to the U.S. Governemnt
Arsenal gets the units from Bulgaria among other places. Those places dictate who gets what. Really all Aresnal USA does is install 922 parts on the guns. It's what Kalashnikov USA did back in the mid - late 90's. They imported "sporting" Saiga semi autos during the Decade of darkenss. removed the "hunting" stock, hand guard, repositioned the trigger assy along with other 922 parts and called it good.
It must be for the mitary takeover in Texas...
i guess it's wrong for Colt, S&W, Beretta, Glock, and lots of other manufacturers to export weapons on military contracts as well...
UrbanWolf
05-10-2015, 20:07
Arsenal sells Bulgarian made AKs.. Apparently Bulgaria is selling elsewhere at the moment.
Yeah, Syria civil war and everything, I know some Eastern European countries are buying from Arsenal as well, and it make sense for them to order more due to the Russia Ukrainian tension.
UrbanWolf
05-10-2015, 20:08
It isn't that they are not getting them from Bulgaria...it is that Arsenal is trying to fill contracts to the U.S. Governemnt
US Gov't does not issue AKs to anyone.
US Gov't does not issue AKs to anyone.
false. I've run US govt issued AKs overseas.
BPTactical
05-10-2015, 21:32
And I know of a service that parkerized two cases of unmarked Kalishnakov pattern rifles for .gov entities.
And it wasn't me.
I throw the BS flag on the reasoning.
Remember when our dear leader placed sanctions on Kalishnakov holdings during the Ukrainian foofaraw?
It kills any importation of Kalishnakov Inc licensed property. Which any former CommBloc country that built AK pattern rifles has done.
Proxy AK ban by Executive fiat.
Arsenal US is a Las Vegas company that was created to convert Arsenal of Bulgaria rifles for the US market. Do to US demand for converted Russian Saiga's, Arsenal US had increased production also converting Saiga's under the Arsenal name. Bulgaria then threaten litigation over use of the Arsenal name. Arsenal US spun off a company called FIME to produce US Saiga conversions. Arsenal of Bulgarian was recently required to increased importation to cover the short fall of AK's when the BHO halted the Russian Saiga imports.
I'm thinking because of the Russian Ukrainian invasion that on an international scale the demand for AK's is increasing. I'm also thinking that Russia is now supplying the other side in this small arms race causing US allies like Bulgaria to pick up the shortfall in the NATO market. I'm sure that in the statement released by Arsenal US they are referring to Arsenal in Bulgaria when talking about military commitments. So there may be an actual shortage of Bulgarian AK's and Arsenal US is now over a barrel without Russian or Bulgarian guns for conversion. It's not like we Americans are willing to start paying Arsenal prices for just any counties AK's.
There just trying to keep there prices inflated. Dont belive ther BS, its all about money. They have been doing this same crap for years now, its how they keep there prices high and rifles in demand.
Agreed. No country is going to pay $1000 per rifle from a US company when they can get the same thing for $400-500 from the source.
I read on another forum that ITAR has an impact on this. Any US military aid has to be spent on US made products. That means a country can't buy AKs directly from Bulgaria, or somewhere else, with US military aid money. It has to go through Arsenal.
On the other hand maybe it's obama is trying to cut into AK availability here.
I get real suspicious when ever I hear gun merchants cry “shortages”. I have heard the same old song crying “shortages” for years. It works and people flock out and buy stuff just like Bennie Babies and Xboxes.
The last Tanner gun show I went to about 5 years ago the guy told me “These are the last 7.62x39 that will be imported to the US.” I heard the same exact BS in the late 90s.
The big mystery to me is how are pieced together bastardized AKs are selling for $1000.
Marketing.
I get real suspicious when ever I hear gun merchants cry “shortages”. I have heard the same old song crying “shortages” for years. It works and people flock out and buy stuff just like Bennie Babies and Xboxes.
The last Tanner gun show I went to about 5 years ago the guy told me “These are the last 7.62x39 that will be imported to the US.” I heard the same exact BS in the late 90s.
The big mystery to me is how are pieced together bastardized AKs are selling for $1000.
Marketing.
"Shortages" are a lie... in most cases. Besides, I don't see myself spending $1200 on an AK when I can take mine, which I bought for $400, and upgrade it to look and act exactly like the $1000+ ones for only a few hundred on top of what I paid. But call me a purist, I prefer my AK to look as close to original as possible- though I am considering that Magpul folding AK stock...
I get real suspicious when ever I hear gun merchants cry “shortages”. I have heard the same old song crying “shortages” for years. It works and people flock out and buy stuff just like Bennie Babies and Xboxes.
The last Tanner gun show I went to about 5 years ago the guy told me “These are the last 7.62x39 that will be imported to the US.” I heard the same exact BS in the late 90s.
The big mystery to me is how are pieced together bastardized AKs are selling for $1000.
Marketing.
Not sure what is meant by "bastardized" AK if talking about Arsenal? My Arsenal SLR is made with an all new Bulgarian Arsenal milled receiver and barrel as well as all other internal parts. My Arsenal SGL is made with all new Russian Saiga stamped receiver and barrel as well as all other internal parts. The trigger groups and furniture are US made by Arsenal Vegas to Bulgarian and Russian specs. The Arsenal guns are all new, not from parts kits like true bastardized parts guns sold elsewhere. The Arsenal US guns may be some of the few foreign made guns sold here that are not bastards.
Without the US made parts the foreign AK's can not be sold in the US. Good luck finding a legal AK in this country that is not made with some US parts. That's what makes Arsenal's so pricey knowledgeable buyer's know they are getting a quality product for there money. By the way, having the Arsenal name on your gun along with the word "shortage" never hurts value, if the guns are already in your safe. Just make sure you know what you are spending over a $1000 on, some may be worth it. Nobody is requiring anybody to buy anything from Arsenal if they think it is not worth the price. Nobody is saying that other AK's will not perform just as well as Arsenal's. As a collector, I'm always concerned about resale value when I buy any gun. I have less than a $1000 total in my pair of Arsenals.
You are right every Tanner show I go to has a bunch of bone heads lying to everybody saying we can't import Russian ammo anymore. This is just a sales tactic used on uninformed buyers, and it works.
^ I am not trying to bash on Arsenals quality I just do not think an AK is worth $1000.+ It is a cheap gun to produce.
Even a cream of the crop AK set side by side to a average $1000. gun the quality will usually not match up. Nothing wrong with that an AK is an AK crude and dependable. The only thing that is wrong is the $1000.+ price tag on it.
I have nothing against “bastardized” guns especially AKs just the fact of spending top dollar on a mismatched gun is a little off IMO. We are not talking about custom machined and developed parts we are talking about AK production parts.
I sold my last AK when prices went up. I would like another one but not at the cost of market prices right now. I just bought a custom built AR for $1000. so much more quality and craftsmanship then an AK.
Just my 2cents.
I have nothing against “bastardized” guns especially AKs just the fact of spending top dollar on a mismatched gun is a little off IMO. We are not talking about custom machined and developed parts we are talking about AK production parts.
.
if you read the post right above yours, you will see that is exactly what is being discussed.
^ I am not trying to bash on Arsenals quality I just do not think an AK is worth $1000.+ It is a cheap gun to produce.
Even a cream of the crop AK set side by side to a average $1000. gun the quality will usually not match up. Nothing wrong with that an AK is an AK crude and dependable. The only thing that is wrong is the $1000.+ price tag on it.
I have nothing against “bastardized” guns especially AKs just the fact of spending top dollar on a mismatched gun is a little off IMO. We are not talking about custom machined and developed parts we are talking about AK production parts.
I sold my last AK when prices went up. I would like another one but not at the cost of market prices right now. I just bought a custom built AR for $1000. so much more quality and craftsmanship then an AK.
Just my 2cents.
I'm confused isn't this thread titled Arsenal AK's, so why all the talk of mismatched junk AK's? Why do people talk about the American made AR with such reverence, yet when someone says they have some American made parts in their AK, it's junk.
FYI, it takes 5.5 hours of machining just to produce a Bulgarian milled receiver. Then you add things like hammer forged chrome lined barrels and forged bolts, all made in the same factory on the same tooling that produces military rifles and that's not cheap to produce. I agree anybody spending top dollar on a mismatched AK would be making a bad investment.
As an analogy you keep talking about your old rat rod you sold in high school and complaining about why Chip Foose now wants $60K for a custom hot rod to replace it. Supply and demand drives the free market, still the best system around. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy Arsenal AK's, but they sell. Maybe there are a lot of stupid people and you are the smart one or maybe they're worth it. I say if you ever get a chance handle and shoot a top quality AK, maybe you'll change your mind on there value.
Why do people talk about the American made AR with such reverence, yet when someone says they have some American made parts in their AK, it's junk.
Because a lot of those American made AK parts are from companies like Tapco. [mop]
OtterbatHellcat
05-11-2015, 22:23
Wow...this thread got weird.
Far out.
I'm confused isn't this thread titled Arsenal AK's, so why all the talk of mismatched junk AK's? Why do people talk about the American made AR with such reverence, yet when someone says they have some American made parts in their AK, it's junk.
Probably because Arsonal buys crates of production parts from here and there to build a gun. I am not saying they are junk. I love AKs I just think the quality and craftsmanship is not on par with other guns in the price range.
Obviouslyyou are a fan of Arsonal, sorry to offend your brand. I have nothing against them I just don't see 1k+ in an AK. just my 2cents.
-Back to the subject a hand I would suspect the "shortage" could be a marketing ploy to keep prices high on a gun that should be much lower.
Probably because Arsonal buys crates of production parts from here and there to build a gun. I am not saying they are junk. I love AKs I just think the quality and craftsmanship is not on par with other guns in the price range.
Huh? Arsenal USA doesn't buy crates of parts and build guns like Century. Minus a few rare exceptions, like the old SA M7s, they are simply an importer and do the required 922R compliance mods on what they import. The rifles are new production built by the host country (Bulgaria and Russia). Are they overpriced? Probably but then again I doubt Century could bring something like a SLR107, with the proper folding stock and CHF barrel, to market for much less than what Arsenal is asking. Some people value an AK built in combloc countries, others could care less. To each their own.
As for this shortage, I suspect it's more marketing than fact. They have the most amazing luck of finding unknown warehouse stashes when the price point gets high enough.
Probably because Arsonal buys crates of production parts from here and there to build a gun. I am not saying they are junk. I love AKs I just think the quality and craftsmanship is not on par with other guns in the price range.
Obviouslyyou are a fan of Arsonal, sorry to offend your brand. I have nothing against them I just don't see 1k+ in an AK. just my 2cents.
-Back to the subject a hand I would suspect the "shortage" could be a marketing ploy to keep prices high on a gun that should be much lower.
I don't have any more of an affection for Arsenal than other gun in my collection. If anyone starts berating other guns that they know nothing about I will try to set the record straight there as well. I refuse to set back and listen to the uninformed throw jabs at something they clearly know nothing about (Arsenal quality). I'm not here to defend their high price, but it cost money to produce a quality rifle, and Arsenal is. I have no knowledge of them falsely inflating prices, maybe they do maybe they don't. I just don't understand why some people persist on throwing uninformed false blanket statements out about all AK quality, it goes nowhere.
I understand AK perception is likely driven by the fact that there is such a broad spectrum of quality in AK parts. The perceived quality of guns built in the US from foreign parts and the 922r compliance requirements all result in some AK's being pieced together "junk". I imagine that these are the guns you are most familiar with that you're looking to buy again. People seem to compare AR's to AK's, typically concluding that AR's are superior. Generally speaking AR's should be built to tighter tolerances just from the fact that we have mil-spec to drive the quality and fit of parts. If you spend a little time doing some research you will find a few AK's also are built to fairly tight tolerances. I have both AK's and AR's and don't really lean one way or another. The AR will beat the AK in long range accuracy, the AK excels in durability. I don't believe I will ever be in a situation where I would have one and wish I had the other, barring an ammo issue.
The virtues of the AR have been well established on this and many other sites. There seems to be many not familiar with Arsenal, my attempt here is to extol the virtues of Arsenal AK's having all of their key components made and assembled in a top rated military production facility that's been doing it since 1958. It is amusing that any time the Arsenal name comes up in a thread at some point the price and general overall quality of AK's eventually becomes the hot topic. But really "Arsonal buys crates of production parts from here and there to build a gun", please do some research before making such an uninformed statement. If you really feel the need to berate an AK please take out your angst on more deserving AK's like Pioneer or I.O. unless those are the ones you are looking to buy then by all means continue to not comprehend anything I've said and go ahead and get one.
Jacket, don't take it personally and I see you're pretty new here. For what it's worth, and perhaps a good takeaway is that it can be safely assumed that anytime you have a thought or question about something firearm related, someone on this forum will have an exceptional understanding and insight into the topic/question at hand.
It's actually not just limited to firearms either. Many of us, myself included, come to this very site to ask broad-stroke questions because we trust the value and knowledge of this crowd. We police our own and do our best to moderate each other in hopes of building a valuable and respectable forum. Even the closest friends among us will call each other out if something isn't quite right.
[Beer]
hurley842002
05-12-2015, 10:47
Jacket, don't take it personally and I see you're pretty new here. For what it's worth, and perhaps a good takeaway is that it can be safely assumed that anytime you have a thought or question about something firearm related, someone on this forum will have an exceptional understanding and insight into the topic/question at hand.
It's actually not just limited to firearms either. Many of us, myself included, come to this very site to ask broad-stroke questions because we trust the value and knowledge of this crowd. We police our own and do our best to moderate each other in hopes of building a valuable and respectable forum. Even the closest friends among us will call each other out if something isn't quite right.
[Beer]
Good post!
Great-Kazoo
05-12-2015, 13:19
No matter what mfg / brand AK one has or likes. It doesn't hold a candle to my Polytec Legend's [panic] No pictures will be available, Til i decide to post it in the Firearms For Sale sectiom
StagLefty
05-12-2015, 14:27
No matter what mfg / brand AK one has or likes. It doesn't hold a candle to my Polytec Legend's [panic] No pictures will be available, Til i decide to post it in the Firearms For Sale sectiom
Big tease !!!! [Beer]
If someone starts trashing Polytec Legend's, I'm passing the baton to Jim. As far as I'm concerned class is over, I've done all I will do with this teachable moment.
Don't be jerking our chain, Jim. You know you wouldn't part with the Legend.
Great-Kazoo
05-12-2015, 22:19
Big tease !!!! [Beer]
Don't be jerking our chain, Jim. You know you wouldn't part with the Legend.
Not sure if that goes or this IMI Galil
https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.wHxdRm%2fr7KaRwhsyN5O4mg&pid=15.1&P=0
I'm probably holding on to this one, maybe
https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.LtM1MvmTJTFzuvA64WHkGg&pid=15.1&P=0
Oh my! I need to keep an eye out for when you post one of those.
FYI, it takes 5.5 hours of machining just to produce a Bulgarian milled receiver...
It takes them 5 hrs? WTF are they doing? Must be using old 3 axis HAAS's or something with four, or five extra fixture steps just for fun, and then running the machine at 80%.... Or... they're made of titanium? lol
Bailey Guns
05-13-2015, 05:44
No matter what mfg / brand AK one has or likes. It doesn't hold a candle to my Polytec Legend's [panic] No pictures will be available, Til i decide to post it in the Firearms For Sale sectiom
Oh, hurry up! I've got $350 burning a hole in my pocket...
[Coffee]
Bailey Guns
05-13-2015, 05:46
It takes them 5 hrs? WTF are they doing? Must be using old 3 axis HAAS's or something with four, or five extra fixture steps just for fun, and then running the machine at 80%.... Or... they're made of titanium? lol
Yep. And at Eastern European labor rates of about $5 per hour that's almost $30 for labor right there. No wonder they're so expensive.
I just don't understand why some people persist on throwing uninformed false blanket statements out about all AK quality, it goes nowhere
I am not bashing the AK.. Seriously. I love the AK-47 and have owned an AK (numerous kinds,) most of my adult life. It is an awesome gun, it is also a military gun that is designed to be produced cheaply and easily= One of the main qualities of the AK. It is not a china cabinet curio, precision marksman rifle, handcrafted from Russias fined gun shop, ... they are imported AK parts put together in Las Vegas. Much better then a Century AK-47.. but sill a AK-47.
All I am saying is I do not see $1000.+ in an AK. Gold plate it, milled receiver, put the picture of the virgin Mary on it. I give you $500. Show me an AK that will group past 100yds with a warm barrel and maybe I would pay more but that is not what an AK is. It is a reliable cheap to build military rifle it does what it is designed for- Easy to use, cheap to build, easy to manufacture, takes neglect and abuse and still is a reliable killing machine.
As far as I'm concerned class is over, I've done all I will do with this teachable moment.
Thank you for your "teachings" but it seems more like fan boy ramblings/regurgitated marketing. Not to be a jerk but I haven't seem much interesting or knowledge AK info in your posts on this thread.
Not to be a jerk but I haven't seem much interesting or knowledge AK info in your posts on this thread.
As a neutral party in this discussion I disagree with this statement. So far he has added gobs of useful, tangible specs & facts to bolster his side of the discussion. What you've come to the table with is feelings & emotion and almost no quantifiable information to go off of for your side of the conversation. Say you don't want to be a jerk but by definition that seems like exactly what your mission is from a neutral party watching this unfold and having an interest in AK47's. You want to not seem like a jerk? Don't argue on emotion against someone who is basing their stance on fact.
UrbanWolf
05-13-2015, 11:15
Not to be a jerk but I haven't seem much interesting or knowledge AK info in your posts on this thread.
And the only thing you ever said is that AKs are cheaply made while providing not evidence on how cheap the production cost actually is this days.
And the only thing you ever said is that AKs are cheaply made while providing not evidence on how cheap the production cost actually is this days.
I would still like to know why it takes these guys 5 hrs to make a receiver... that's ridiculous. Hell, maybe I should call them and tell them I can get it done at a mere fraction of that with better tolerances....
As a neutral party in this discussion I disagree with this statement. So far he has added gobs of useful, tangible specs & facts to bolster his side of the discussion. What you've come to the table with is feelings & emotion and almost no quantifiable information to go off of for your side of the conversation. Say you don't want to be a jerk but by definition that seems like exactly what your mission is from a neutral party watching this unfold and having an interest in AK47's. You want to not seem like a jerk? Don't argue on emotion against someone who is basing their stance on fact.
Where are these "tangible specs & facts" is see the "Bulgarian milled receiver. Then you add things like hammer forged chrome lined barrels and forged bolts," When you are bragging up a gun that has , chrome lined barrel and forged bolts.. ? That's usually found in most basic guns. the milled receiver is nice much nicer then the folded metal receiver, but still not that spectacular.
I really couldn't find any "useful, tangible specs & facts" ....?
And the only thing you ever said is that AKs are cheaply made while providing not evidence on how cheap the production cost actually is this days.
I am not a machinist and have not researched the subject extensively. But all the sources I have looked into seem to point to the facts that it takes less money and machinery to set up an operation to build AK-47s then AR-15s. Thus one of the great appeals of using AK-47s in covert wars and other grey areas. Also the tolerances can be much more crude then the AR-15 and still operate in a reliable fashion (look at century arms for an example of poor tolerances).
The amount of plastic on your average AR-15 seems like it would be hard to set up a plastic inject molding shop. Where I have seen many AK with basic grade lumber stocks.
This subject has been discussed before, Most of my researched into the subject has been from book or talking to gunsmiths, here one link I came a crossed. I will look around for more info out are the internet when I get a chance. If anyone else has some I would love to see it.
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-400941.html
Like I said I love AK, if ammo was not a factor and I was in a war I would probably choose the AK.
--I am not a gunsmith or a machinist so correct me is I am wrong or educate me but please add more then regurgitated marketing or copy paste info from merchant pages.
buffalobo
05-13-2015, 13:30
I just bought a custom built AR for $1000. so much more quality and craftsmanship then an AK.
Like I said I love AK, if ammo was not a factor and I was in a war I would probably choose the AK.
$1000 for custom AR but not the AK to fight with?
I personally would not pay $1000 for an AK unless it were custom/special, but then I have never paid $1000 for an AR either.
Thread is getting kinda circular, don't let it deteriorate.
Here's an analogy that might make sense to the two of you trying to have the pissing contest.
Let's say the Arsenal is a high end Mercedes and the lower end AK's are Fords and Chevys.
Some guys are just fine with their Chevys. I mean it does everything thing the Mercedes does at half the cost, right? Hell, it might even have heated leather seats.
Then there are guys that buy the Mecedes. Maybe they think it offers a bit more than the Chevy or Ford even though it cost a bit more so they are willing to spend the extra money.
I don't think either of them is right or wrong in their choice. I mean it's there money right? Different strokes for different folks and all.
hurley842002
05-13-2015, 19:29
Here's an analogy that might make sense to the two of you trying to have the pissing contest.
Let's say the Arsenal is a high end Mercedes and the lower end AK's are Fords and Chevys.
Some guys are just fine with their Chevys. I mean it does everything thing the Mercedes does at half the cost, right? Hell, it might even have heated leather seats.
Then there are guys that buy the Mecedes. Maybe they think it offers a bit more than the Chevy or Ford even though it cost a bit more so they are willing to spend the extra money.
I don't think either of them is right or wrong in their choice. I mean it's there money right? Different strokes for different folks and all.
/thread
As previously stated I was only addressing Arsenal, as that is the thread title. I am not making any attempt to justify the prices Arsenal is charging. I have only given the facts that I'm aware of pertaining to there manufacturing. I admit to keeping the details somewhat simplified so as not to speak over anyone's head and aid in comprehension, does not appear to have helped some. If anyone knows of any important details I have left out please feel free to chime in. My only reason for giving this info was for anybody that may not be familiar with how Arsenal may differ from other AK's. I realize that some here already know everything there is to know about all AK's and have nothing else to learn, so there would be no need for them to even be reading this thread.
I can't believe it takes Arsenal 5.5 hours of machining to make a single receiver. That does sound a bit slow. It isn't like Bulgaria is a third world country either. You would think a company like Arsenal that has been building a significant volume of military AK's for over 50 years would be doing it as simple as possible. It is a solid block of steel unlike the folded sheet metal ones. It is a mystery to me why any manufacture would even bother with expense of a milled receiver on any AK.
I will not pay a $1000 for an AK or AR either. I would, however, much rather build the much more complicated AR than the simple AK. I have had much more success and find it somehow easier building the AR platform. I don't think it even took me 5.5 hours to finish my own 80% AR receiver. The one AK I built did not turn out as well as I had hoped. I ended up selling it as parts. That guy put everything together on a NoDak Spud, and turned out nice. But attempting to build AK's does give you a new appreciation for the rattle traps the lowlifes are putting together in a garage in Terroristan. I need to go now to take a piss.
$1000 for custom AR but not the AK to fight with?
Just don't know... The AK is just so bass ass a low range 10-50yds and I am faster with it. But the AR has a match barrel that will reach out way farther and ammo is lighter. House to House AK for sure. Out in the open AR.
Depends, not sure.
--
Like I have said I love the AK. But it is a crude gun I would only pay so much for. Just like I love machetes but they are not worth what a German kitchen knife is.
So I did a little reading about these glorious Arsenals, They have a lot of hyped up marketing and a big fan club, But the reality of them seems just like you average AK-47 with a big marketing plain. Same old AK stuff canted sights, crooked parts, poor finishes.
Personally I just cannot see spending $1200. on a gun you have to bring home and beat with a rubber mallet and bend parts with vice grips. Buying an AK (Especially ordering one with out see it..) is a crap shoot. Arsenal is no different.
The reviews for Arsenal(real reviews and not marking and fan boy hype) are the same as any other AK.
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36161 (http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.p hp?t=36161)
That was until I recently purchased three Arsenal rifles. Two of the three, a 106UR and a 107UR, both have canted sights. The other, a 106CR, was very unreliable. To their credit, they replaced it on the fourth trip back.
I would not say that Arsenal has poor QC. I'd say that they don't have QC at all. No, I'm not joking.They're just modifying rifles and putting them out the door. If any consideration whatsoever was given to QC, there is no way that so many rifles with problems could have made it out. They do have some very cool models, but they need to get their act together. I sure hope they do.
http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-106687.html
I'd have no problem with the wear. What I would have a problem with was the noticeable crookedness that was apparent on the 2 SLR-107 samples I looked over at the lgs. It was like looking at a strung bow. The barrels and stocks on both curved to the left.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_64/135732_Do_I_have_a_canted_front_sight__SGL21.html
My SGL21 had a canted front sight and gas block. Called Arsenal and they basicly told me there is nothing they would do about it
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448813
My friend bought a new Arsenal AK for ~$900 a while back. We took it to the range and spent the next two hours trying to get it on paper. I finally told him to get it over to the 10 yard range and see where the heck it was hitting.
Turns out the front sight was so far off, it was almost hitting the target next to it. I think there was a recall on that particular model.
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=93872
I just picked up another AK, this time a Arsenal SLR 107f. The front sight is canted. This does not shock me (had this problem on another Arsenal before) but its getting old. I could see this on a Romanian gun, but for the kind of money Arsenal asks for their rifles they ought to be able to put a front sight on straight.
Hey, Jacket.
Just to let you know, your "$1,000 custom AR" with the "match barrel" probably isn't any better than a DPMS or Bushmaster and they cost half as much.
buffalobo
05-14-2015, 07:28
Continued circular firing squad and more barbs.
Thread done.
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