Caldera/Independence Institute: Editorial on RMGO 5/25

[funkymonkey1111]

If you haven't seen it, Caldera takes a swing at Dudley:

http://completecolorado.com/pagetwo/2015/05/25/dudley-browns-political-bullying-harms-gun-rights-in-colorado/

We at the Independence Institute take on bullies. It’s what we do.
Bullies like to use the coercive power of government to take away individual choices, like teachers’ unions work to limit educational choice.
http://completecolorado.com/pagetwo/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/icon_op_ed.png (http://completecolorado.com/pagetwo/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/icon_op_ed.png)Nothing exemplifies this more than the current effort by Dudley Brown, of Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, who is using intimidation and threats to squelch a growing movement to re-legalize 30-round magazines, winning back 99 percent of all the gun magazines we lost in the 2013 ban.
A guy who claims to be a no-holds-barred pro-gun activist is fighting to uphold Colorado’s new ban on any magazine that holds more than 15 rounds. Denying a woman her choice of a 16-round gun for self defense. Denying a man the choice to buy a standard 30-round mag for his AR-15.
Bullies like Michael Bloomberg surround themselves with bodyguards who can fire a hundred rounds in a few seconds. Hypocritically, Bloomberg won’t let a domestic violence victim buy a Glock or Springfield handgun with a standard 16 or 17 round magazine. Bully Dudley Brown may already have stockpiled all the magazines he needs; he won’t let a domestic violence victim buy her first gun with a standard magazine until he can add another 100-rounder to his stockpile.
I deliberately use the term “bully” in regards to Dudley. Not only do bullies tell other people how to live, bullies use intimidation and fear. Dudley enjoys beating elected Republicans into compliance by threatening them with ugly primaries full of malicious lies, which admittedly is a specialty of his. It is understandable that good officials fear this tactic, and I hold no ill-will to those he intimidates.
Another bullying technique is of course using falsehoods to created straw-man arguments. A good example is Dudley’s misdirection that I said a bill to fully repeal the entire magazine ban, SB-175, could be amended to re-legalize up to 30-round mags. Of course I never said any such thing and Dudley hasn’t (and can’t) produced proof I did.
Unlike with Dudley’s organization, the magazine ban is not a profit center for the Independence Institute. We have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars — more than we have raised — representing Colorado Sheriffs in a federal lawsuit to overturn this unconstitutional ban.
Dudley’s contribution to the fight is to tell law-abiding citizens to “shut your pie hole (http://lauracarno.com/2015/04/25/no-i-will-not-shut-my-pie-hole/),” to buy magazines illegally, and go after the real “anti-gunners.”
We’ll take one of Dudley’s suggestions. We will go after the real “anti-gunners.” That’s why we are standing up to Dudley Brown.
In 19 years, Dudley has raised millions of dollars from Colorado gun owners, and has never passed a pro-gun bill in the State Legislature.
http://completecolorado.com/pagetwo/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gun2-300x225.jpg (http://completecolorado.com/pagetwo/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gun2.jpg)File phopassed a pro-gun bill in the State Legislature.

Dudley vehemently opposed the bipartisan 2003 Concealed Carry Act. If Dudley had prevailed, Colorado would still be one of the small number of backwards states like Massachusetts or New York, where citizens are denied the right to carry based on the city or county where they live.
Dudley ignores the need of female victims of domestic abusers and stalkers who need their first gun immediately.
Bills to fully repeal the mag ban twice failed this legislative session, but if the phony fundraiser Dudley Brown really supported gun owners, we could win back 99 percent of what we lost on our way to full repeal.
Second Amendment rights aren’t abstract debating points. For people who must defend themselves, they are survival itself. Callously, Dudley Brown, like Michael Bloomberg, puts himself ahead of the people who most desperately need the Second Amendment. Crime victims — especially women, the disabled and others — need the tools to resist violent bullies right now. Not in some far-off hypothetical day when Dudley Brown for the first time in his life passes a pro-Second Amendment bill for this state.
We might have to wait until next year to get to a vote. As long as necessary, we will continue to fight to expand our gun rights, one round at a time if needed.

[Wulf202]

Wow. They actually took it easy on him

[MarkCO]

I still can't understand why anyone gives him or his organization any money...but then Obummer is in office too.

[Zundfolge]

I agree with Caldara (and most folk here) when it comes to Dudley ... I don't trust him, I don't like him and I don't think he's helping our cause as much as he's helping himself (I've gone so far as to blame him for the stupid gun control laws since he allowed his narcissistic need to have his ring kissed get in the way of the Republicans keeping the Senate which would have prevented all this mess).

That said, in this one tiny little area, just like the proverbial broken clock, I think he's right ... if we got the ban "tweaked" so we could get our 30 rd magazines back that would take the fire out of the bellies of the vast majority of Colorado gun owners and that's it, none of the other laws (especially the most egregious one, the Universal Background Check law) will ever be repealed and we'll all still continue with this Sword of Damocles hanging over our heads; that one day they ban will be "tweaked" again against us.

We must eliminate the very idea that Denver has any right to have any say in what size magazines we use.

[Ah Pook]

Woohoo, the weekly jump on Dudley thread. [handbags][013]

[Justin]

Gun rights weren't lost in one fell swoop. Gun control has historically been instituted via incremental measures.

Likewise, gun rights won't be won back in one great and ecstatic act of wholesale repeal.

Politics simply doesn't work that way, and frankly, I'll happily take an incremental real-world victory over an imaginary wholesale one.

If tweaking the magazine ban to make it less repressive is all it takes for gun rights supporters to pack up and go home, shame on us, but such an argument still at least envisions a world where our gun rights are better off, if only by a bit, than they are now.

[Justin]

Woohoo, the weekly jump on Dudley thread. [handbags][013]


If Dudley doesn't want to be denigrated, he can start putting some points on the board for our team.

As it is now, he's all show, and no go.

[hurley842002]

Everytime I read one of these threads, I understand more and more, why we are in the spot we are in.

[Zundfolge]

Gun rights weren't lost in one fell swoop. Gun control has historically been instituted via incremental measures.

Likewise, gun rights won't be won back in one great and ecstatic act of wholesale repeal.

Politics simply doesn't work that way, and frankly, I'll happily take an incremental real-world victory over an imaginary wholesale one.

If tweaking the magazine ban to make it less repressive is all it takes for gun rights supporters to pack up and go home, shame on us, but such an argument still at least envisions a world where our gun rights are better off, if only by a bit, than they are now.

I see that point, but people on our side simply don't work that way.

The only thing that gets our side even remotely politically active is severe pain ... relieve the pain down to a dull ache and they'll sit on their laurels and just bitch and moan but not do anything.

If we get 30 round magazines back I'll be happy but I won't pretend for a minute that it won't mean that the fight is over as far as most Colorado gun owners are concerned and we'll be stuck with the UBC law and magazine bans forever.

[ZERO THEORY]

Everytime I read one of these threads, I understand more and more, why we are in the spot we are in.

Infighting as opposed to a unified front against our opposition?

[hurley842002]

Infighting as opposed to a unified front against our opposition?
Correct.

[ZERO THEORY]

Correct.

If I can give the general left one thing, it's respect for their solidarity. Despite all of their own differing viewpoints and opinions, they are solid as steel when it comes to legislative and community measures. If the broader Republican/Tea Party/Libertarian/Independence/Liberty movements could all take a couple of those pages from their book, I imagine that things would look very different on the socio-political front right now.

[beast556]

If I can give the general left one thing, it's respect for their solidarity. Despite all of their own differing viewpoints and opinions, they are solid as steel when it comes to legislative and community measures. If the broader Republican/Tea Party/Libertarian/Independence/Liberty movements could all take a couple of those pages from their book, I imagine that things would look very different on the socio-political front right now.

This is so true, conservatives never want to cooperate no matter what, its maddening.

[Zundfolge]

This is so true, conservatives never want to cooperate no matter what, its maddening.

Its maddening but it makes sense ... Individualism vs groupthink.


Also the left isn't as united as we'd think they are. They just have a sympathetic media that does all it can to smooth out the conflicts whereas they amplify the conflicts on the right.

[spqrzilla]

The idea that we should not settle for half a loaf (really 90%) because it would take the fire out of getting a whole loaf seems to assume we have any realistic political chance of a complete repeal.

This is really really fantasy thinking. There is no realistic chance of complete repeal. Even the raising of the limit to 30 was hardly a sure thing, in fact unlikely.

[hollohas]

This is so true, conservatives never want to cooperate no matter what, its maddening.
Because true conservatives by nature are all about individual thoughts not hardline, party talking point, group think. They care about individual liberty, personal responsibility and self sufficiency as their guidelines. This means that they don't want to be told what to do or tell other people what to do. They don't want to compromise thier individual vaules just to help someone else get what they want.

There are few true conservative politicians. Politicians WANT to mandate what others do and that goes against the very core value of conservatism. The pool for conservative candidates is extremely small because most of the good ones are busy trying to be left the hell alone instead of trying to go out and "representing" everyone else's best interests. We don't have many that will fight conservative fights and that's why we so frequently lose.

All this is true for conservative voters too. They just want to be left the hell alone. I wish conservatives stuck together as a united front but unfortunately I don't think that's even possible until the fight gets personal for many more conservatives or until a true conservative leader steps up and inspires them.

[Irving]

But who can unite the North?

[Great-Kazoo]

But who can unite the North?

Ollie ?

[Big John]

Everytime I read one of these threads, I understand more and more, why we are in the spot we are in.Because DB isn't representing us well?[LOL]

After watching many hours of the great debates, I have zero confidence that there will ever be a full repeal of either law. I would have happily nipped away at one of them though.

[Gman]

Everytime I read one of these threads, I understand more and more, why we are in the spot we are in.
Like DB's repeated attacks of the NRA, using the same discredited allegations that the antis were using.

The idea that you will either get all or nothing pretty much guarantees that you will get nothing.

[Bailey Guns]

I agree with Caldera. Good article.


The idea that you will either get all or nothing pretty much guarantees that you will get nothing.

This is the same argument I make for voting for republicans...Romney for example. Was he the perfect conservative candidate? Of course not. But there wasn't one. But to prove a point republicans didn't vote and we got Obama for another four years.

[hurley842002]

I hope some of you don't think I'm defending DB. I can give a crap less about him, have never been a member of RMGO, and have never donated to DB. I don't expect things to be perfect, but the constant bickering between "pro 2a" folks is really tiring.

[jhood001]

I think the real issue on the repeal vs amendment issue is long-term thinking.

If the game is almost over and you're down by 7 in a football game, you go for it on fourth down.

If you have plenty of time on the clock, you put up 3.

Everyone acts like the world is coming to an end when it comes to gun rights. I believe the end of the game was close 2-3 years ago, but it isn't now.

Kick the damn field goal now and work to get possession back. It isn't 'settling'. Its just putting points on the board.

[theGinsue]

I hope some of you don't think I'm defending DB. I can give a crap less about him, have never been a member of RMGO, and have never donated to DB. I don't expect things to be perfect, but the constant bickering between "pro 2a" folks is really tiring.

What I'm about to do is a violation of site rules. Dudley Brown is a member of this site. Our rules clearly state that we're not to engage in personal attacks against other forum members. Through all previous conversations about DB I've held my tongue but tonight I'm going to claim the privilege of exemption to that rule based off of the efforts I make on behalf of this site. [Following comment redacted]


I agree that the bickering is tiring but anyone who thinks DB is pro-2A must also believe that Al Sharpton wants racial harmony.

I don't state this as fact, but as my personal, and not the site's, opinion.
In my opinion, DB and his organizations (RMGO & NAGR) have literally done NOTHING positive for enhancing/re-establishing our 2A rights. As I understand it, he and his org's have suckered millions of dollars from people with his "the sky is falling" methods. As with Sharpton, actual progress to achieving his stated goals will negatively impact his bottom line.

This is what I believe. If you disagree, show me some proof that I'm wrong.

ANY progress towards restoring truly un-infringed 2A rights is still progress. As Gman said, if you insist on holding out for all or nothing then we will all be left with nothing.

ETA: Oh, and last November I had the displeasure to exchange emails on this site with Mr. Brown (which he initiated). On several occasions I asked him how I could assist him but he refused to identify just what he wanted. He did, however, provide me with an absolutely negative opinion of this site. While I had no respect for DB before this exchange, I came away with a clear distain for the man after that. His parting statement just drove home that opinion.

[Big John]

What I'm about to do is a violation of site rules. Dudley Brown is a member of this site. Our rules clearly state that we're not to engage in personal attacks against other forum members. Through all previous conversations about DB I've held my tongue but tonight I'm going to claim the privilege of exemption to that rule based off of the efforts I make on behalf of this site. Know that I'm willing to accept any censure from my fellow staff members for this - up to and including banishment if they feel it is warranted.


I agree that the bickering is tiring but anyone who thinks DB is pro-2A must also believe that Al Sharpton wants racial harmony.

I don't state this as fact, but as my personal, and not the site's, opinion.
In my opinion, DB and his organizations (RMGO & NAGR) have literally done NOTHING positive for enhancing/re-establishing our 2A rights. As I understand it, he and his org's have suckered millions of dollars from people with his "the sky is falling" methods. As with Sharpton, actual progress to achieving his stated goals will negatively impact his bottom line.

This is what I believe. If you disagree, show me some proof that I'm wrong.

ANY progress towards restoring truly un-infringed 2A rights is still progress. As Gman said, if you insist on holding out for all or nothing then we will all be left with nothing.

ETA: Oh, and last November I had the displeasure to exchange emails on this site with Mr. Brown (which he initiated). On several occasions I asked him how I could assist him but he refused to identify just what he wanted. He did, however, provide me with an absolutely negative opinion of this site. While I had no respect for DB before this exchange, I came away with a clear distain for the man after that. His parting statement just drove home that opinion.Very well said sir. I'm hoping there are no repercussion's for your sharing this. There are probably some here giving there money to this .org and they should know who they are giving their hard earned money to.

When one of "our own" whom is supposed to be representing us succumbs to power and greed, I don't consider it "infighting" to discuss it.

I've heard two radio interviews with DB and have received countless terrifying e-mails from his .org. I am happy to say that I never have and never will give him a dime. Us not getting 30 rounds back only ensure's DB's income. It's too bad that an org. that seem's to have some clout in the CO. political arena was not willing to get this done then use the momentum from this to go after the rest.

[Big John]

I heard the interview Mandy Connell is speaking of here and it happened exactly as she describe's it.


https://youtu.be/bFdEZC2vNSU?t=106

[hurley842002]

I agree that the bickering is tiring but anyone who thinks DB is pro-2A must also believe that Al Sharpton wants racial harmony.

I guess I should have said "allegedly pro 2a".

[Wulf202]

I agree with Hurley. I hate seeing the infighting but this isn't the same. This is us refusing to agree or associate with a known fear monger and liar. Who in my opinion is embezzling the funds of the people who think they are donating to a worthy cause.

I've had several exchanges with db over the years and none of them have been prodictive or pleasant.

I recently met someone else who claims to be employed by rmgo. Decent enough young man. I hope the organization can actually do some good with fresh blood.

[CO Hugh]

What I'm about to do is a violation of site rules. Dudley Brown is a member of this site. Our rules clearly state that we're not to engage in personal attacks against other forum members. Through all previous conversations about DB I've held my tongue but tonight I'm going to claim the privilege of exemption to that rule based off of the efforts I make on behalf of this site. Know that I'm willing to accept any censure from my fellow staff members for this - if they feel it is warranted.


I agree that the bickering is tiring but anyone who thinks DB is pro-2A must also believe that Al Sharpton wants racial harmony.

I don't state this as fact, but as my personal, and not the site's, opinion.
In my opinion, DB and his organizations (RMGO & NAGR) have literally done NOTHING positive for enhancing/re-establishing our 2A rights. As I understand it, he and his org's have suckered millions of dollars from people with his "the sky is falling" methods. As with Sharpton, actual progress to achieving his stated goals will negatively impact his bottom line.

This is what I believe. If you disagree, show me some proof that I'm wrong.

ANY progress towards restoring truly un-infringed 2A rights is still progress. As Gman said, if you insist on holding out for all or nothing then we will all be left with nothing.

ETA: Oh, and last November I had the displeasure to exchange emails on this site with Mr. Brown (which he initiated). On several occasions I asked him how I could assist him but he refused to identify just what he wanted. He did, however, provide me with an absolutely negative opinion of this site. While I had no respect for DB before this exchange, I came away with a clear distain for the man after that. His parting statement just drove home that opinion.

FOLLOW THE MONEY!!

[BREATHER]

OK. I did get a membership to RMGO before I researched. After all my research and opinions here, I am not renewing. I will not be bullied.

[theGinsue]

I guess I should have said "allegedly pro 2a".

While I know it looks like I was directing that comment to you (I was concerned it would appear that way), I was not - it was a general statement. In fact, I do believe that you "get it" as I, and most of us, do.

[sellersm]

This is such a classic case of what happens to most organizations that start out as "need-based": the organization spins up because it wants to "help", or "fix something" or "meet a need", etc. etc. Later in time, the problem that existed is close to being eradicated but the people in the organization don't want to close their doors!! So what can they do? Many (not all) organizations just continue to propagate/perpetuate the problem so the organization will continue!!!

When an organization has truly met the need that caused it to begin, and that organization then closes its doors because there's no more "need", then I salute those in that organization!!

When an organization uses unethical, immoral, and/or 'wrong' means to propagate their own existence, when the need *could* be met and eradicated, then I call those organizations on the carpet and attempt to expose their sinful ways, selfish nature and reprobate actions.

[Ah Pook]

Interesting that a forum of 7700 members has basically written DB off as a charlatan, yet there is still an audience to proselytize to.

[hurley842002]

While I know it looks like I was directing that comment to you (I was concerned it would appear that way), I was not - it was a general statement. In fact, I do believe that you "get it" as I, and most of us, do.
No worries at all [beer]

Just further validates the fact that not only do ACTUAL pro 2a folks not want to be associated with DB, they don't even want their words to be taken the wrong way lol.

[Joe_K]

The Leftists are great at pulling off the whole wolves in sheep's clothing and worming there way into power, passing bills/laws based off of emotional and feel good arguments. Maybe one day we will begin to pick up on this and start fighting fire with fire. Say what we have to do to get elected then raise the flag of we don't give 2 shits what you remember us telling you, this is how its going to be. But alas it seems the only time the Right plays dirty is when its advantageous to the other side or when we are shooting ourselves in the crotch. End Rant.

[th3w01f]

Hi, my name is Th3w01f and I was a member of RMGO.... for 12 months.

Now I'm a member of the NRA and GOA, this site helped me see the light.

[TFOGGER]

Dudley will never get another dollar from me for one reason: He doesn't f-ing LISTEN to his supporters. His agenda is defined by HIS agenda. The final straw was when the recalls were just beginning to gather steam, and he said it was a waste of time, then tried to take credit when it appeared that they might succeed.

[sroz]

I for one will hold my elected officials accountable for catering to Brown and accepting his $$$$ while choosing to ignore my concerns and position on issues. You know them because they are very vocal in their support for him and willingly accept his contributions to their campaigns. Although they are in a safe district, they will not again receive my vote. I will either vote for another who better represents me or just not vote for that office. I chose to not blindly follow any party or candidate.

[thedave1164]

The dems and Dudley got exactly what they wanted.

The dems wanted to get the pro-gun people fighting amongst themselves, there was never a 30rd bill, not even a draft.

Dudley got an talking point to raise more money on.

And even if there was a bill drafted and voted on, Hick would never sign it while there was no threat of a veto over ride.

[def90]

Yeah, I can't believe that there is this much "he said-she said" fighting going on over an issue that was never even an issue. There was never any talk of a "30 round" compromise anywhere other than between Caldera and Dudley.. and neither of them is a member of the state legislature so it might as well just be two bums arguing in an alley.

I'm not even sure why Caldera would want the 30 round compromise because it then destroys the basis of their own mag ban lawsuit which is based on "common use". The only reason he would want it would be that they know there is no hope for the lawsuit to succeed in overturning the law.