Selling suppressors

[Abomb5800]

So recently I have gotten the opportunity to get into some silencerco cans cheap. Currently I have a 5.56 can and a 7.62 can. The 5.56 can is on a individual form 4 and the 7.62 is on a trust.

My question is if I sell them in state, and after submitting the form 4s + the taxes, do I have to do a background check with a class 3 dealer for the transfer, and if so is there an additional $200 tax to the dealer?

To simplify $200 transfer to dealer for fast check + $200 transfer to buyer= $400 in taxes for the sale of a can?

Thx
Abomb


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[kwando]

Form 3 is dealer to dealer
Form 4 is dealer to individual/trust

= only $200

[Great-Kazoo]

So recently I have gotten the opportunity to get into some silencerco cans cheap. Currently I have a 5.56 can and a 7.62 can. The 5.56 can is on a individual form 4 and the 7.62 is on a trust.

My question is if I sell them in state, and after submitting the form 4s + the taxes, do I have to do a background check with a class 3 dealer for the transfer, and if so is there an additional $200 tax to the dealer?

To simplify $200 transfer to dealer for fast check + $200 transfer to buyer= $400 in taxes for the sale of a can?

Thx
Abomb


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Intrastate (in state) sale of a NFA items allows one to sell to another person / trust w/out the need to use a FFL as the go between. If you're selling the 5.56 for $$ and we agree to a sale price, I submit a F4 to the ATF if i'm an individual. If it's a Trust, LLC, Corp purchasing the buyer still has to do a F4 (paper file) as F4's at this time are still unable to be e-filed.
The only one paying anything is the buyer. Payment to you for can, payment to ATF for tax stamp. FFL's are not needed so don't let someone tell you they are.

NOW regarding a BG check , one does not need a BGC through a FFL as the F4 IS the BGC.

Read 9.4.2

http://www.guntrustlawyer.net/chapter-9-transfers-nfa-firearms

[SAnd]

A silencer is regulated under the National Firearms Act but it is not a firearm. The state background check law only requires background checks for firearms. Silencers does meet the definition of a Firearm. You aren't required to get a background check for a silencer transfer by federal or state law.

[RCCrawler]

A silencer is regulated under the National Firearms Act but it is not a firearm. The state background check law only requires background checks for firearms. Silencers does meet the definition of a Firearm. You aren't required to get a background check for a silencer transfer by federal or state law.

The last suppressor I bought the gun shop required me to do a bgc.

[Hoser]

The last suppressor I bought the gun shop required me to do a bgc.

Oops.

However some places use a 4473 program to manage their books. So, you might have had to fill out a 4473, but a background check was not done by the state.

There is a block on page 2 of the 4473 where is says something like "Item is a NFA Item and no NICS Check is required."

[RCCrawler]

I had to pay the state background check fee and wait for it to clear. I argued with the guy that there was no reason for it, but he said it was the law and he couldn't release my suppressor without it.

After the 4 month wait for the forms, and I didn't want to screw anything up I finally just filled it out and went in my way.

[Great-Kazoo]

I had to pay the state background check fee and wait for it to clear. I argued with the guy that there was no reason for it, but he said it was the law and he couldn't release my suppressor without it.

After the 4 month wait for the forms, and I didn't want to screw anything up I finally just filled it out and went in my way.


Next time, but i doubt you'll use the same shop. Point out to him, the Form 4 IS a BGC.

[RCCrawler]

Next time, but i doubt you'll use the same shop. Point out to him, the Form 4 IS a BGC.

I did that the first time he said the Form 4 cleared my trust, it didn't clear me.

Like me I said I got sick of arguing and filled out the form and paid the man.

[Abomb5800]

OUTSTANDING! Well if anyone is looking for a SDN-6 that has had less then 100 round of 300 BLK through it, hit me up. If not watch the EE for one to come up shortly.

Abomb

[SAnd]

State law requires a background check through a Colorado FFL using the state background check system for firearm transfers in Colorado. The Colorado Law doesn't have an exception in the state law for NFA transfers. That means to legally transfer any firearm, NFA or non-NFA, you have to do a Colorado background check through a Colorado dealer. There are exceptions to the background check requirement but what is being discussed here isn't excepted.

I do think you don't need to do the background check on a silencer because by definition it is not a firearm. The Colorado background check definition isn't worded in a way to include a silencer as a firearm.

[Brian]

Hm, really looking forward to more input on this one. I currently charge the $7 fee for suppressor pickups, and really don't want to. Prior to the new state laws, I did not perform a BGC. However, after the law went into effect, after asking ATF and CBI, I started. Granted, there was a lot of confusion at that point, and I'm not sure how anyone could offer a true legal opinion, but I was under the impression most other FFLs were charging as well. Glad to hear if it's true that many aren't - hopefully with justification. I'm also curious for those of you who are saying that suppressors are not firearms. What do you base your definition on? US Code and ATF / National Firearms Act still use this definition, unless I'm missing something (below):

I hate the fact you need to be a lawyer to figure all this stuff out. Would really appreciate any legal justification that would allow me to skip the BGC required by Colorado law. Too bad common sense isn't enough...


http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title26/pdf/USCODE-2011-title26-subtitleE-chap53.pdf

(a) Firearm
The term ‘‘firearm’’ means
(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e);
(6) a machine gun;
(7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18,United States Code); and
(8) a destructive device.The term ‘‘firearm’’ shall not include anantique firearm or any device (other than a machinegunor destructive device) which, althoughdesigned as a weapon, the Secretary finds byreason of the date of its manufacture, value, design,and other characteristics is primarily acollector’s item and is not likely to be used asa weapon.

[kidicarus13]

https://www.ar-15.co/showthread.php?t=143991

Post #4

[Brian]

https://www.ar-15.co/showthread.php?t=143991
(https://www.ar-15.co/showthread.php?t=143991<br />)
Post #4

Yep, agreed the language is more or less identical on the form 4 itself, but even more explicit.

c. Firearm.
The term “firearm” means:
<snip>
(7) a muffler or silencer for any firearm whether or not such firearm is included within this definition; and
<snip>

Where are our lawyers? :)

[lostcolorado]

Two different suppressors, two different FFLs..... Both charged for BGC

[Alpha2]

"Where are our lawyers? :)"

The only lawyer that matters on this question is the one that defends you when the powers that be go all "full arbitrary" on you. Test cases, and all that. Personally, I would err on the side of CYA.

[Brian]

"Where are our lawyers? :)"

The only lawyer that matters on this question is the one that defends you when the powers that be go all "full arbitrary" on you. Test cases, and all that. Personally, I would err on the side of CYA.

That's where I think a lot of us landed. It's just a tough thing to balance - as we all know it will make some guys angry and they won't want to come back.