View Full Version : It's a f*#!ing uniform. Not part of your damn wardrobe.
mcantar18c
06-07-2015, 22:50
Please, don't go around wearing your old uniform like a pair of jeans.
A guy in his late 40's/early 50's walked into my taproom this morning wearing an untucked tan t-shirt, ACU bottoms, and tennis shoes.
I asked him if he was military, he said "Oh, uh, yeah, like a lifetime ago." I proceeded to tell him (in the most respectful way possible, because he said he had actually served) that a lot of guys have died wearing that uniform and wearing it around like pajamas was disrespectful to them, and that as someone who's buddies have been wounded and killed in war I take personal offense to it. Before I could finish speaking, he starts yelling at me about how I'm such a jackass and "am ruining it for everybody" (which I'm still not exactly sure what he meant by). He goes on for a minute, how it's a great way to treat customers and so on, and storms out.
A few hours later some white trash looking older blonde "lady" (I use that term loosely) pulls up in a black late model BMW sedan with DV plates, wearing a Navy PT shirt, and walks in and asks loudly "Who's in charge here?" I tell her I am, and she says she's looking for someone who some to a guy in BDU's earlier. I told her I hadn't seen anybody wearing BDU's for quite a while, but that somebody came in earlier wearing a fucked up ACU uniform and threw a fit when I called him out on it. She starts off on me, yelling and bitching for a few minutes with me replying when I can in a very calm voice, which pissed her off even more. She points out her DV plates, flashed some kind of Fed-looking badge in my face like it has any bearing on anything, and after a while she storms out and takes off. There were 3 groups of customers in at the time... a USAF vet, a group with a guy who was in a sister unit to mine and was stationed at the same post I was, and a biker couple with pro-mil patches on his cut. They asked, I explained the situation that had transpired earlier, and they all decided that the couple are just shitbags and were impressed at how calm I was about it. The USAF vet wrote down his name and number in case I need a witness statement.
Point is this, folks. It's a UNIFORM. the fact that you at one time served in it doesn't mean you get to parade around in a dicked up version of it. I'm not saying you can't wear a tan unit t and jeans, or go hiking in your multicam bottoms and a normal color t-shirt. Just don't be an asshole with it.
HoneyBadger
06-07-2015, 22:54
Point is this, folks. It's a UNIFORM. the fact that you at one time served in it doesn't mean you get to parade around in a dicked up version of it. I'm not saying you can't wear a tan unit t and jeans, or go hiking in your multicam bottoms and a normal color t-shirt. Just don't be an asshole with it.
[Awesom]
boomerhc9
06-07-2015, 23:25
I saw a dude wearing a bomber jacket and crocks with socks yesterday, that kind of pissed me off, so I called him out on it. I told him he shouldn't wear his old uniform around willy-nilly. He also called me a dick and walked away.
[Sarcasm2]
boomerhc9
06-07-2015, 23:26
mcantar18c he probably just doesn't have good fashion sense. You should start a fashion blog and show him the light.
Did she take a picture of you?
Aloha_Shooter
06-07-2015, 23:35
You forgot the corollary: ... except to the IRS (who won't let us write-off uniform purchases as expenses -- even Class As) ...
The IRS's line of thought (going back decades) is that you can take the shiny stuff off and wear your Class As as a regular business suit ... and don't even get started on utilities ...
james_bond_007
06-08-2015, 00:30
Interesting article on this topic...
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/a/uniformwear.htm
Can it be considered 'authoritative' ?
No, the article itself s not 'authoritative', but does cite Military Regs, US Law, and a court case.
My take is that the conclusion of this article is:
1) It is clear that wearing 'distinctive parts' are certainly a NO NO (insignia, decorations etc.) ; wearing non-distinctive parts seems unclear (i.e. if wearing ANY part of a uniform was intended to be 'illegal', why differentiate and specifically cite 'distinctive parts' as illegal )?
2) A DA MAY or MAY NOT prosecute, depending on the circumstances (attempt to impersonate vs. wearing a uniform as a costume or with no 'distinctive parts')
3) Many services have regulations prohibiting the wearing of uniforms by civilians; however, paradoxically, they are not enforceable with citizens.
Some other questions :
1) Should Surplus stores/thrift stores/Ebay be allowed to sell uniforms or parts of them to civilians ...for ANY reason ?
2) Should there be a ban on the sales or profiteering of all medals/ribbons, etc. (not just some, like the Medal of Honor) ?
3) What should be done with uniforms, medals, etc. when the rightful owner (ex-military) passes on (and no family member wants them) ?
4) Does the "No Wearing of uniforms" apply to non-current issued uniforms or just current issue?
EX: Would wearing a pair of Vietnam 'tiger stripe camo' pants be considered 'Wearing a military uniform', since they are no longer issued/used? Clearly, someone wearing them would not be trying to impersonate current US Military nor would they be recognized as current Millitary. The pants would be a 'former uniform', but not a current uniform. Does ANY issued item, current of not, still constitute a uniform ?
Comment:
I'm thinking this issue, in some ways (not all ways), parallels the controversial 'burning of a US Flag'. Whether you are allowed to do it or not, by law, is a different issue than the respect that should be given to both (flags and uniforms), regardless of what the courts rule.
Please understand that my post is not arguing for or against, nor am I attacking or supporting the position of the OP....I'm just asking some questions.
Bailey Guns
06-08-2015, 06:32
Huh...
wctriumph
06-08-2015, 06:40
So, If I have a set of camo's that my cousin picked up for me on the base and I wear them I'm doing something wrong? I'm not in the military so I can't wear them? In my younger days I used to wear camo, current issue at the time, when I went duck hunting and sometimes fishing. There were no commercial camo gear available at that time and the mil-spec issue camo's were durable and if I got the right size were comfortable. There are a lot of surplus outlets that sell current issue gear, are you saying i can't wear it?
Just curious.
Singlestack
06-08-2015, 06:42
I certainly see what the OP meant, and agree with him. Show the uniform the respect it deserves. But what POs me even more are the occasional stolen valor POS's.
mcantar18c
06-08-2015, 06:53
Like I said in my OP, there are instances where (in my opinion) it's ok. Personally, I often wear my multicam bottoms when hiking and very occasionally at work when my work jeans are dirty (because I have a dozen pairs and don't care if I destroy one in my shop). There's a limit though, and I'm not really sure how to articulate it. On the rare occasion I do wear them, I certainly don't wear other components of the uniform... shirt, boots, etc... It's just disrespectful, regardless of legality.
Another thing... I don't consider the guy that came in to my taproom to be a case of stolen valor, as it didn't seem like he was trying to get benefits or handouts out of wearing it. When I asked him if he was military he seemed a little surprised, like he wasn't even thinking about it. It's just disrespectful.
Bailey Guns
06-08-2015, 07:12
Well, I guess I'm missing the point. It was disrespectful because he was wearing a part of a military uniform (maybe...since those types of pants are available from many sources) but it's not disrespectful when you do it? Maybe if I'd been there I'd understand. But I don't from your posts.
People wear those pants all the time. And a tan t-shirt? How is that part of a uniform?
A jacket or shirt with insignia and official items on it (like the old BDU field jacket with branch and name tapes and rank insignia)? Different story.
newracer
06-08-2015, 08:10
Like wctriumph and Bailey Guns, I don't get it.
What if he said he wasn't military?
Someone can wear ACUs hiking or working in a shop but not having a beer?
Great-Kazoo
06-08-2015, 08:17
I's been 15 yrs since i was discharged from service. Took 2 slugs through the abdomen on what was suppose to be the usual routine patrol. 3 of my brothers never came home from that one. My sgt's still in a wheel chair.
Today was one of those days i couldn't get my shit together, Again. Been draggin ass the last 3-4 days trying, to forget it was 17 yrs ago that short contact where i would later receive the purple heart happened. Fuck getting dressed, fuk going out, but oh no the wife (if she still calls herself that) says we HAVE TO GET OUT OF THE HOUSE. So i grab what ever i have laying around, looks like some of my old bdu's, seen better days, oh well fuk it. It's been 17 years.
Hit a few places up starting to feel normal finally, till the last place i walk in. Some punk ass who says he also "served" jumps my shit screaming HOW DARE I DISRESPECT THE UNIFORM, on and on till the words become nothing but a buzz, like an annoying mosquito. . What a dick, like he's seen combat let alone lost a few good friends. Fuck Him i'm outta here. Hope the ol lady doesn't get locked up again, she's heading in to give that punk a dressing down. Guess those rounds took more than some flesh from me.
That's the same story the OP posted, only from the other side. Maybe? Possibly? perhaps? who knows? Just because they're not squared away, looking like shit, doesn't mean they started their day looking to be disrespectful, not even close. Just carrying those ghost and weight of combat.
The Marine Corps has rules and regulations on the wearing of uniforms by Marines on Active/Reserve duty. There have been limited instances of the Corps going after veterans for wearing parts or pieces of the uniforms in a manner viewed to discredit the Marine Corps. For instance you show up to a flag burning , anti war protest wearing your dress blue jacket and trousers, even with no rank, insignia, or medals,ribbons, or badges if the Corps figures out that the individual was a Marine charges can be brought, including revoking someone's honorable discharge.
Different scenario but falls under the same rules and regs, I decide to take a shooting class and wear my FROG tops or bottoms, or my CWU 27 flight suit, or I wear MARPAT trousers on a construction sire or while hunting. I'm techicaly violating the uniforms rules but not discrediting the service or dis honouring the uniform. It's that whole spirit of the law letter of the law thing. I will sometimes wear parts of my uniform but never in a way to disrespect the Service of the Marines still serving or that have served in the past.
dirtrulz
06-08-2015, 08:36
People with find a reason to be upset with anything these days. You could have simply ignored him and had a perfectly fine day. Him wearing what you consider to be a uniform has no bearing on your life or service. I wear gray pants and shirt at work, bettter not let yourself be seen wearing the same thing.
Zundfolge
06-08-2015, 08:44
So you're sayin' that all those Army-Navy and Military Surplus stores are dens of iniquity and disrespect?
I sure hope the OP is packing when he decides to hassle one of the many homeless guys I see walking around in clothes they bought at a military surplus store or the Goodwill ... some of them folk are unhinged.
Singlestack
06-08-2015, 09:12
After seeing the above comments, I get it now. The guy wasn't wearing the uniform, just BDU pants and a tan shirt. I wasn't meaning to suggest it was a case of stolen valor at all. Since he served it isn't stolen valor. Just sayin the actual cases of stolen valor tick me off the most.
Who cares, displaying such bad taste by openly wearing those ugly vomit-colored ACUs is punishment enough.
BPTactical
06-08-2015, 09:19
Pics of pissed of white trash blonde please.....it is the only way we can make a fair evaluation.
Scanker19
06-08-2015, 09:36
Disrespected by a pair of pants? You feeling okay?
Bailey Guns
06-08-2015, 09:40
Did she take a picture of you?
I tried and tried not to laugh at this...but I did. I tried and tried not to respond to this...but...
OP, I think there are better things to have a militant attitude about.
Martinjmpr
06-08-2015, 10:28
People with find a reason to be upset with anything these days. You could have simply ignored him and had a perfectly fine day. Him wearing what you consider to be a uniform has no bearing on your life or service. I wear gray pants and shirt at work, bettter not let yourself be seen wearing the same thing.
Like wctriumph and Bailey Guns, I don't get it.
What if he said he wasn't military?
Someone can wear ACUs hiking or working in a shop but not having a beer?
Disrespected by a pair of pants? You feeling okay?
MCantar: Have you considered switching to decaf? [Coffee]
Martinjmpr
06-08-2015, 10:36
OTOH, I have to admit that if this girl walked into my bar dressed like this:
58867
I would have to say "that camouflage you're wearing is disrespectful to our troops. Please take it off. Immediately. [ROFL2]
BushMasterBoy
06-08-2015, 10:37
You do know you can always delete your posts.
i don't really get it. lots of camo articles of clothing aren't even military. is there only certain types of camo you can't wear? what about old woodland bdu? what about russian, or european? i 100% agree when it comes to dress uniforms. camo? shoot, i wore camo as a five year old, was i disrespecting my grandpa who was a vet? lots of camo is sold all over the place that isn't even surplus, no soldier even wore it. so who cares?
I wear black BDU pants to work every day. I don't regard it as disrespectful, I regard it as thrifty. They're cheap, durable, comfortable, functional for my needs, and hide dirt well. Did I mention they're CHEAP? (So am I!![ROFL1])
Are you also yelling at an old guy with a "CVN-64 Constellation" ball cap? I worked hard to earn and pay for my UNIFORM. I would take offense at your offense. The fact is, civillians have worn millitary uniforms for as long as they have existed in the US. Are you going to yell at a kid playing Army dressed millitary? It does not matter if we are talking the 'P-Coat' (which made high fashion several time in our history, ever see Steve McQueen pics?) or even my old dailey uniform that was issued to sailors and convicts. Ever watch Clint Eastwood in Alcatraz? A P-Coat is a damn good and damned expensive coat. Just because I got out and it offends you, veterans should be ashamed to wear what they earned? You yelling at a veteran for wearing clothes they earned and paid for with their modest money as well as years of service....... Sounds like you got what you deserved from both of them. Now if we were talking stolen valor and wearing full dress 'daily' or 'Dress' with insignia or something... That is different and you would have my full support. That does piss me off. I earned my Dolphines on three boats. I would tell you to go to hell too if you even started to say something about my right to wear them. I earned them. Who the hell are you to tell me or any other vet what we wear? Don't yell at a vet or even a wanna be vet unless they are in full dress and you KNOW they are stealing valor.... And ya better make that call correctly every time.
Sorry if this comes off too harsh but being disrespectful to a fellow vet (regardless of branch)......I was not there, so could be missing something but as discribed...... That offends me.
sneakerd
06-08-2015, 11:45
Why would anyone "call someone out" for wearing a bomber jacket just because he is wearing crocks with socks? I'd call you a dick too. Makes no sense whatsoever.
. Personally, I often wear my multicam bottoms when hiking and very occasionally at work when my work jeans are dirty
So...
Its ok for you but nobody else?
So...
Its ok for you but nobody else?
Maybe he's "ENTITLED".
JohnnyDrama
06-08-2015, 12:21
untucked tan t-shirt, ACU bottoms, and tennis shoes
Sounds like the processing "uniforms" we wore before we were issued complete uniforms and boot camp started for real. Who in their right mind would ever want to look like that?
a fucked up ACU uniform
I admit that people who go out in public dressed as such make me cringe too.
I think the line is where the number of uniform components make it difficult to distinguish the difference between a very poorly worn complete uniform and parts of a uniform worn for work or whatever.
Good point.
I think the line is where the number of uniform components make it difficult to distinguish the difference between a very poorly worn complete uniform and parts of a uniform worn for work or whatever.
wctriumph
06-08-2015, 12:46
[facepalm]op
Please, don't go around wearing your old uniform like a pair of jeans.
Point is this, folks. It's a UNIFORM. the fact that you at one time served in it doesn't mean you get to parade around in a dicked up version of it. I'm not saying you can't wear a tan unit t and jeans, or go hiking in your multicam bottoms and a normal color t-shirt. Just don't be an asshole with it.
I never served.. So I'm not allowed to wear surplus camo pants?? I think he's right, you are an asshole..
What is the asshole cutoff line?
Where do you work anyway? Don't want to patronize a place where I might get ripped on by the bartender for violating whatever conduct code is in his head at the moment.
DocMedic
06-08-2015, 13:47
End of July I'll hit my 14th year in the US Army. TBH I could give 2 shits how someone wants to wear it ( as long as they don't fall under UCMJ and follow guidelines of 670-1) , flip flops, tied knotted in the front, cut showing shoulders, have a great time with it do what you will. The reason I say this is for one reason, its clothing. Its not the uniform I respect its the people in them, military clothing is just that clothing to protect destroy and replace, I know that's not going to be everyone's opinion but those that fought with me by my side for 3 years of deployments where people not Government issue'd gear.
Serious question here. I have re-read th op several times, and am close to thinking I understand the point he was making. Maybe.
So if the guy had been wearing say, a blue t-shirt, instead of tan, would that have been ok?
DenverGP
06-08-2015, 14:16
If I were the wear my old uniform (at a veterans day parade or something similar), I'd wear it correctly per the regs and in the correct condition. But a pair of BDU pants? I'll wear them for whatever.
A pair of bdu pants is just a damn pair of pants. Nothing magical about them. Even a BDU jacket is just a shirt. I don't wear my old BDU jacket that still has my patches/stripes/insignia on it, but I've got a lot of older bdu jackets that no longer have the patches on them, and I'll wear them whenever and however I please.
argonstrom
06-08-2015, 14:25
Should've shot that punk from 85 yards away.
I never served.. So I'm not allowed to wear surplus camo pants?? I think he's right, you are an asshole..
What is the asshole cutoff line?
Where do you work anyway? Don't want to patronize a place where I might get ripped on by the bartender for violating whatever conduct code is in his head at the moment.
^^^^THIS!!! Dude needs to lighten up a bit. Next thing he'll be saying only those that served can use an AR.
almostamos
06-08-2015, 14:55
Interdasting thread. Not sure what the f'ing deal is w/ this. When I was a teen, my dad always bought me surplus clothing to wear around the fields and dove hunting. Not sure what the problem is with that. Geez, lighten up.
Think I'll start wearing my flak vest kevlar helmet an cut
off my Utilities,wear my dive socks and Jungle Boots.
;)
SideShow Bob
06-08-2015, 15:44
Like I said in my OP, there are instances where (in my opinion) it's ok. Personally, I often wear my multicam bottoms when hiking and very occasionally at work when my work jeans are dirty (because I have a dozen pairs and don't care if I destroy one in my shop). There's a limit though, and I'm not really sure how to articulate it. On the rare occasion I do wear them, I certainly don't wear other components of the uniform... shirt, boots, etc... It's just disrespectful, regardless of legality.
Another thing... I don't consider the guy that came in to my taproom to be a case of stolen valor, as it didn't seem like he was trying to get benefits or handouts out of wearing it. When I asked him if he was military he seemed a little surprised, like he wasn't even thinking about it. It's just disrespectful.
F-you ! I'll wear any part of my old uniforms or more recently surplused and new civilian made copies anyway and anywhere I want !
I even transferred my unit patches to the newer items as the old ones ragged out and were replaced.
Just who the hell are you to be telling me that I cannot wear them ?
BPTactical
06-08-2015, 16:41
Wow, and I thought I stirred the pot.....
I think the thing everybody has missed: what is the intent of wearing uniform items?
If one is posing as a wannabe or "stolen valor" or expecting special treatment/privilege for wear them, then may a bag of hammers fall upon them repeatedly.
If somebody wears them just because, so freaking what?
I have a 10th Mountain Division patch on one of my hats. My dad was 10th, my nephew is currently in the 10th.
I wear them with pride and I will not remove it until I decide.
BPTactical
06-08-2015, 16:42
Think I'll start wearing my flak vest kevlar helmet an cut
off my Utilities,wear my dive socks and Jungle Boots.
;)
With or without crotchless panties?
patrick0685
06-08-2015, 16:59
[Pop] IBTL
With or without crotchless panties?
With any luck, we will never find out.
With or without crotchless panties?
Sub check ;)
BPTactical
06-08-2015, 17:07
Sub check ;)
LOL
[Pop] IBTL
And you win. [Beer]
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