What is the actual process?

[BigBear]

So, can someone very specific break down the process?

I.E. I have a Trust that I want to use to purchase a suppresor... I walk into the store; then....?

I've heard so many things and contradictions recently that I'm kind of unsure of the actual process.

I get this: http://www.silencerresearch.com/Silencerguide.pdf

but it doesn't give with this: https://silencerco.com/education/

and other sites I've found.... so

Someone whos been through the actual process with a Trust... Please enlighten me.

[mtnrider]

Go to store and purchase the suppressor. They will help you fill out the required forms. Take the forms along with 2 copies of your trust and a check for $200 and mail off to the ATF. Then wait.

That's it in a nutshell. Pretty straight forward. Now purchasing online is a little different in that it needs to be transferred on a form 3 to a local dealer then on a form 4 to you. Doesn't really change what you have to do just adds another step (takes longer).

[kwando]

My advice is to purchase a suppressor that the store has in stock. That way you can file ASAP for your form 4. Otherwise like mtnrider said, they have to form 3 the suppressor to their store, and that will extend the time frame.

[Great-Kazoo]

Go to store and purchase the suppressor. They will help you fill out the required forms. Take the forms along with 2 copies of your trust and a check for $200 and mail off to the ATF. Then wait.

That's it in a nutshell. Pretty straight forward. Now purchasing online is a little different in that it needs to be transferred on a form 3 to a local dealer then on a form 4 to you. Doesn't really change what you have to do just adds another step (takes longer).


My advice is to purchase a suppressor that the store has in stock. That way you can file ASAP for your form 4. Otherwise like mtnrider said, they have to form 3 the suppressor to their store, and that will extend the time frame.

Agree with both responses........ALSO Don't Forget to Include your Schedule "A" Trust Assets.

if you're purchasing and the employee helping you says umm i'm not sure but go ahead and fill it out. Take a break and come here for clarification. If the one helping you doesn't know, what else don't they know. The waiting period (90days~ for Form 1 and 90-120 tops for a Form 4) is long enough. Finding out one has to submit a Correction doesn't make one a happy camper.

[Brian]

Like anything, the first time seems probably more complicated than it actually is.

Agreed above - in summary, the best advice I can give you is to not try to figure it out yourself the first time. The internet is full of good information, but is also filled full of outdated or plain bad info, and it's not always clear which is which.
Either 1) find a good, well-recommended shop, 2) find a good, well-recommended home-based dealer, or 3) call silencer shop.
Also make sure you understand your trust, either by talking to the lawyer who wrote it or making sure you're 100% solid with where you copied it from/created it from. It seems like in the last year I've had more guys than usual come in for suppressor transfers with trusts they don't understand.

Once you're done with the paperwork for the first one, immediately start on #2, otherwise when #1 comes in you will be kicking yourself for not starting sooner... ;)

[Monky]

I remember my first time...


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.

[Great-Kazoo]

I remember my first time...


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.

Thank you, Lena Dunham

[SAnd]

This may not help your original question but I recommend it anyway-

https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms/firearms-industry/guides/publications-firearms-national-firearms-act-handbook

The ATF National Firearms Act Handbook is a fairly readable, plain language guide to the National Firearms Act. It is information from the source, the ATF. It covers all aspects of the NFA so much of it isn't needed for us stamp collectors. It has plain language descriptions with references to the appropriate laws and regulations which are included in the appendixes. You can download the whole Handbook or individual chapters. Chapter 9 covers transfers, page 59 section 9.4.2.2 talks about legal entity transfers. Chapter 6 covers Form 1 making and registering NFA stuff.

This is the starting source of information for NFA laws and regulations.

Hang in there. Most people involved in NFA stuff will gladly help you.

[Dave_L]

Step 2 is to be ready to be broke because of stamps. Enjoy!

[BigBear]

Alcon, Thank you for the great information.


ALSO Don't Forget to Include your Schedule "A" Trust Assets.

I was under the impression that I do not worry about the Schedule A/Inventory until product is actually in my hand.... am I wrong?


It seems like in the last year I've had more guys than usual come in for suppressor transfers with trusts they don't understand.

Not quite sure I understand what you're saying here... My wife and I are the only Trustees as of now, it is an intended NFA Trust... It is a "Living" Trust... is that bad? It did come from a lawyer.


I remember my first time...

How was that cheeseburger? (kidding)


Step 2 is to be ready to be broke because of stamps. Enjoy!

Yeah... I'm a public school teacher so... I doubt I'll ever really "get into it" the way I would like. But I try the lotto every now and then when I have an extra buck or two. HA!

[Brian]

I'm sure you're fine if you had a lawyer do it. There are forums where guys have posted copies of trusts they "found", sometimes people download those and change the names, but they have no idea what state it was originally written for, etc.

Sounds like you're good!

[BigBear]

Ah, rgr. Thxs.

BB

[Great-Kazoo]

I was under the impression that I do not worry about the Schedule A/Inventory until product is actually in my hand.... am I wrong?

Your Schedule A should have something in there like a $5 or $10 bill (serial number) That's what you send in. Any NFA item being applied for does not go on there till approved.
There's various opinion's about the Schedule A and need to list every approved NFA item on there , every time one submits another application. I have my SA current and do include it (with all applicable nfa items) with each submittable. The reason i do it is. IF there's a new[er] examiner they can see it ain't my first rodeo, especially when it's been 6 months to a year since my last app.

I've done this since i started e-filing due to an issue with paper 4-5 years back. I forgot to sign the citizenship card. The examiner i spoke with said i need to redo this them resubmit and wait. I informed him IF he looked at past approvals, i had 2 of them 3 months prior. At that point he said well since you were approved recently, i'll let it slide

[Brian]

I was under the impression that I do not worry about the Schedule A/Inventory until product is actually in my hand.... am I wrong?

Your Schedule A should have something in there like a $5 or $10 bill (serial number) That's what you send in. Any NFA item being applied for does not go on there till approved.
There's various opinion's about the Schedule A and need to list every approved NFA item on there , every time one submits another application. I have my SA current and do include it (with all applicable nfa items) with each submittable. The reason i do it is. IF there's a new[er] examiner they can see it ain't my first rodeo, especially when it's been 6 months to a year since my last app.

I've done this since i started e-filing due to an issue with paper 4-5 years back. I forgot to sign the citizenship card. The examiner i spoke with said i need to redo this them resubmit and wait. I informed him IF he looked at past approvals, i had 2 of them 3 months prior. At that point he said well since you were approved recently, i'll let it slide

Most of the time at this point, if you get rejected due to a paperwork issue, you can either call the examiner or send it back in ASAP and you go to the top of the stack, not the bottom. However, why risk it? Make it right the first time, right?

Side note, but if you're not rich like Kazoo, you can use a $1 bill instead of a $5 or $10. ;) The point is the trust has to be "funded" with something of value. I'd just leave that $1 bill in the safe and never sell it, so you're always funded, even if you're buying/selling items in the trust later on.

Back when I did my stuff in a trust, I sent in an updated Schedule A each time as well. You can add the item as soon as you own it (paid for it) even though you can't possess it, but most people just wait for the paperwork to come back before they add it. In the past, ATF apparently actually double checked previous submissions and rejected some guy's trust because he sent in a Schedule A that didn't have previously approved items on it. However, I never saw proof of that and haven't heard anything like that in a long time. Still - better safe than sorry!

[Chief_of_Scouts]

This seems as good as any thread to ask this question...

I too, recently got an NFA Trust ( Revocable Living Trust ) to play the gun muffler game. I purchased the SilencerShop NFA Trust ( http://www.silencershop.com/services/nfa-gun-trust.html ). This trust is made to ensure it meets all applicable laws and requirements for the state of Colorado.

This is directly from the instruction sheet that came from SilencerShop with my trust:

"What states require registration?The following states require that trusts be registered with a local court:
Alaska
Colorado
Hawaii
Idaho
Michigan
Missouri
North Dakota




The question I have to all of the Colorado NFA Trust owners is; how did you go about registering your trust? I see that Colorado is one of the few states that requires the NFA Trust to be registered with the court. I printed the Trust Registration Statement form from the court website. I then went to the courthouse to have it recorded. The clerk told me that I must get a probate attorney to fill out the statement, file the statement under a case number and wait for a judge to make a decision on the Trust. I tried to explain to the clerk that I wasn't looking for disposition of property, only to meet the recording requirement. She repeated her previous statement.

Please, can anyone that has an NFA Trust in Colorado shed some light on this?

Thanks

[buffalobo]

A PM to member NFATrustGuy should net the info you need.

He has been the go to guy for many folks setting up NFA Trusts.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[kidicarus13]

The question I have to all of the Colorado NFA Trust owners is; how did you go about registering your trust? I see that Colorado is one of the few states that requires the NFA Trust to be registered with the court. I printed the Trust Registration Statement form from the court website. I then went to the courthouse to have it recorded. The clerk told me that I must get a probate attorney to fill out the statement, file the statement under a case number and wait for a judge to make a decision on the Trust. I tried to explain to the clerk that I wasn't looking for disposition of property, only to meet the recording requirement. She repeated her previous statement.


If this is true I believe a lot of Colorado trust owners will have some issues with their trusts. Probably just inaccurate information.

[cfortune]

If this is true I believe a lot of Colorado trust owners will have some issues with their trusts. Probably just inaccurate information.



I've had two stamps approved and I didn't register my trust anywhere. Waiting on a 3rd (and 4th at the end of the week) so we'll see in 100 days or so.

[kidicarus13]

I've had two stamps approved and I didn't register my trust anywhere. Waiting on a 3rd (and 4th at the end of the week) so we'll see in 100 days or so.
ATF approval does not necessarily equal a valid, legally correct Trust.

[cfortune]

ATF approval does not necessarily equal a valid, legally correct Trust.
No, it does not. If it was a requirement though, I'd be willing to bet their lawyers would have caught on by now.

[brutal]

Well, the google of internets says this:

Colorado (registration of a revocable living trust is not required until the grantor's death and no registration required if all trust property is distributed to the beneficiaries then).

[Great-Kazoo]

This seems as good as any thread to ask this question...

I too, recently got an NFA Trust ( Revocable Living Trust ) to play the gun muffler game. I purchased the SilencerShop NFA Trust ( http://www.silencershop.com/services/nfa-gun-trust.html ). This trust is made to ensure it meets all applicable laws and requirements for the state of Colorado.


Thanks


If this is true I believe a lot of Colorado trust owners will have some issues with their trusts. Probably just inaccurate information.


I've had two stamps approved and I didn't register my trust anywhere. Waiting on a 3rd (and 4th at the end of the week) so we'll see in 100 days or so.

If everyone reads the question posted he has REVOCABLE LIVING TRUST. Those of us who had them done In state by a Local NFA Attorney . We do not have a REVOCABLE LIVING TRUST. We have a TRUST, something different than a Revocable Trust.
Which is once again why I as others prefer to do one with an In State Attorney, than something On Line from a place not directly dialed in with CO attorneys.

But Hey, one does save money when doing it from an OOS vendor. Hell some guys got those $99 ones. Which on various forums they all ask the same questions. How do, Why can't i, does anyone know if?
For some reason that $99 one, says to CONSULT AN ATTORNEY regarding specific questions [facepalm]

[cfortune]

If everyone reads the question posted he has REVOCABLE LIVING TRUST. Those of us who had them done In state by a Local NFA Attorney . We do not have a REVOCABLE LIVING TRUST. We have a TRUST, something different than a Revocable Trust.
Which is once again why I as others prefer to do one with an In State Attorney, than something On Line from a place not directly dialed in with CO attorneys.

But Hey, one does save money when doing it from an OOS vendor. Hell some guys got those $99 ones. Which on various forums they all ask the same questions. How do, Why can't i, does anyone know if?
For some reason that $99 one, says to CONSULT AN ATTORNEY regarding specific questions [facepalm]


Pfft, showing us up with your reading comprehension. There's no room on the internet for that.

[buffalobo]

It's not like we don't have a "specialist" as a member of our community.[emoji33]

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Great-Kazoo]

Pfft, showing us up with your reading comprehension. There's no room on the internet for that.

Just trying out my new multi- gendered lenses. Bifocals to the politically incorrect.

[spqrzilla]

There is some misinformation in this thread. A trust must be registered under Colorado law when it becomes irrevocable. That usually is upon the Grantor/Settlors' deaths but may be earlier depending on how the trust is drafted. The registration is a formality that does nothing but establish where jurisdiction over the trust is. Judges don't "approve" the registration.

[Chief_of_Scouts]

There is some misinformation in this thread. A trust must be registered under Colorado law when it becomes irrevocable. That usually is upon the Grantor/Settlors' deaths but may be earlier depending on how the trust is drafted. The registration is a formality that does nothing but establish where jurisdiction over the trust is. Judges don't "approve" the registration.

Thanks for all of the answers and speculations. Particularly, thank you to spqrzilla, as this is the answer I managed to find on my own when I looked further into this issue. Registration is not required to make the trust valid, only for disposition of the property.

Also, to address the "Revocable Living Trust comment; Just because the document says it is a "Revocable Living Trust" does not invalidate that it is a proper and correct Trust for NFA purposes. I understand that you desire to cast doubt on this type of Trust because you think it is cheap or from out of state, but you are providing misinformation. I respect your position on these forums Great-Kazoo, but it is probably best to remain factual when making statements on this topic.

[Dave_L]

I used a lawyer so I didn't have to worry about this stuff.

[Chief_of_Scouts]

I agree that using an attorney in Colorado is going to be the BEST option for people that want to get an NFA Trust in the state of Colorado. You likely will pay more for this option. But, if there is a less expensive, legal option that gets the exact same results for potential new NFA owners, we should not direct them away from that choice.

We all recognize that there are bargains, and there are bargains. Sometimes you do get what you pay for. Sometimes, .45 ACP fired from a Glock 21 is just as effective as being fired from a Wilson Combat 1911.

[Great-Kazoo]

Thanks for all of the answers and speculations. Particularly, thank you to spqrzilla, as this is the answer I managed to find on my own when I looked further into this issue. Registration is not required to make the trust valid, only for disposition of the property.

Also, to address the "Revocable Living Trust comment; Just because the document says it is a "Revocable Living Trust" does not invalidate that it is a proper and correct Trust for NFA purposes. I understand that you desire to cast doubt on this type of Trust because you think it is cheap or from out of state, but you are providing misinformation. I respect your position on these forums Great-Kazoo, but it is probably best to remain factual when making statements on this topic.

I based said info on more than 1-2 post on another forums regarding On line trust. There seems to be issues with "some" of those who went the low budget route. Regarding trustees Not receiving all paperwork for the trust AND the fine print of said trust. Suggesting they contact an attorney if they have questions and or problems with their trust. So i am remaining factual when it comes to on line / low budget trust.
If my family has an issue after i pass on, i want them to have local access to the one who set up my NFA trust. Not having to mess around searching for an on line company that may no longer be in business, under the same name.