Older Leather necks, help expose a fraud?

[Daniel_187]

A guy at work ( former USMC maybe) claims that the course of fire for the USMC boot camp is out to 700 meters iron sights. That seems a little far for irons. I was looking around online and found this
http://www.usmcweapons.com/the-m16a2-qualification-course/

Is this the normal course of fire? and has it been the same for a while? He said he was in around 1992-1993, and a lot of his stories seem to be BS Like carrying a .45 acp Beretta 92F. and A lot of his time frames don't seem to match up.

[Fentonite]

He's a liar on both counts.

Basic rifle qual was 200, 300, 500 yards (ETA: meters)

Pistol was the Beretta M9.

(At least from '88-94)

[USMC88-93]

Page 64-------> http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/MCO%203574.2K.pdf

If he is talking qualification with the M-16 he is Full of it. If he is talking about training with other weapons post basic in a weapons specific MOS than there are some weapons with beaten zones that can extend out that far but not likely for qualification purposes.

During that time the change over from the 1911 to the M9 was occurring and many non grunt bases might still of had 1911 in their armory. I barely missed being able to qualify with a 1911 while at El Toro and Tustin in the early 90's

[ben4372]

He may just be dumb. I worked with a guy that was in the army in the 80's and swore his M16 was a .308. Nice guy, got to know him, solid guy. Just not a gun guy or a stickler for details. Let's not forget the tails get taller as people get older.

[MarkUSMC88]

500m was good enough for that "baker" target

[Joe_K]

As far as I'm aware the Marine Corps has always qualed at 200, 300, & 500 YARDS, not Meters. That's how it was when I was in, my Great Uncle a Vietnam and Korean War Marine, as well as 2 friends of mine one who served in the 80's and the other in the 90's.

Then again Marines haven't always had the reputation for being the sharpest tacks in the drawer.

[Hound]

This was going to be my guess. He is mixing up the 1911 .45 with the Beretta 9mm. I started out (Navy not Marines though) carrying a .45 on watch and then that got replaced with 9mm later. All of that was in the 90's.


During that time the change over from the 1911 to the M9 was occurring and many non grunt bases might still of had 1911 in their armory. I barely missed being able to qualify with a 1911 while at El Toro and Tustin in the early 90's

[BPTactical]

Then again Marines haven't always had the reputation for being the sharpest tacks in the drawer.


But they can impregnate anything......[Coffee]

[Marine24]

Rifle marksmanship in the Marine Corps has evolved over the past few years and changed significantly back in '07. Previously we shot KD (known distance) courses at the ranges mentioned above, but big change in '07 with a shift from fundamental marksmanship skills at known distance to combat marksmanship. Timed stages at shorter more realistic distances with stages set up for headshots, controlled pairs and engaging moving targets were introduced, while wearing helmets, flak jackets...etc. Days of shooting in your cammies with a soft cover are gone.

Intermediate and advance combat marksmanship quals were also introduced with day/night shoots, unknown distance stages, use of iron sights, optical sights and night vision. Stuff we always did in our normal training, but no one was keeping score, and more times than not, involved shooting blanks and using BFAs.

[Joe_K]

But they can impregnate anything......[Coffee]
Was that in reference to your Mother..... [Coffee]

[Ranger353]

He's a liar on both counts.

Basic rifle qual was 200, 300, 500 yards (ETA: meters)

Pistol was the Beretta M9.

(At least from '88-94)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
True dat! 500M slow fire in the prone with iron sights, standard annual qualification. 700M was ONLY for competition, but that was done with iron sights. Done that and got the t-shirt.

Ooh Rah! USMC 1980-2003.

[SNAFU]

Then again Marines haven't always had the reputation for being the sharpest tacks in the drawer.

I r rock ;)

Only time we shot at the 600yd line was when I shot for Western Division Matches.
4x Expert rifle,twice with M16A1,,,,3x expert pistol,,all with those rattle trap 1911A1s

[Teufelhund]

He's a liar on both counts.

Basic rifle qual was 200, 300, 500 yards (ETA: meters)

Pistol was the Beretta M9.

(At least from '88-94)

This is the right answer. Was still true from '96-'01.

The Marine Corps still used the M1911 (.45acp) for select units well into the '90s, but all I ever saw in my infantry battalion and MEU (SOC) unit were the shitty M9's (9mm). I think the Army used the 92F for a while though.

[Daniel_187]

Thanks guys, I have nothing but respect for people who serve or have served but when you lie about things like serving, I draw the line. Next time he brings up this shit I will throw out this tib bit. This guy is also a huge Lib, but owns a gun and always wants me to take him where I go shooting but I tell him I busy and to go and ask Joe Biden to go with him.

[Chaffee2]

He might just be getting old and senile. Before reading these postings and looking it up I would have swore we qualified out to 600 yds. For all these years whenever someone asked about Marine ranges I always told them we shot out to 600. The only non Marine range I ever remember qualifying on was one year we shot at Fort Carson. Maybe back in the day it was a 600 yard range and that is what stuck in my head.

[Danimal]

Deleted

[Daniel_187]

Things in his head are so skewed. He wanted my help on maybe getting a can, no big deal and show him the E-file for his rifle and I told him it was going to be the price of the can + 200 for the tax stamp and he said "it must have come down, I remember when it was $2,000" Plus blames everything on Republicans, and "Republicans are the reason for the mag limit and BG checks now". Sorry just kind of venting here, But when my Grandpa died I put together a shadow box with some of his metals in it. Some were missing and I found a website to replace them, but needed some paper work to prove his service(his Navy cross missing). Well I got it done and took a photo and I showed him and he asked where I got the metals and I told him, Next day he was all pissed off because they would not sell him a bronze star with out a service record DD214. I know that some metals are restricted now for the Stolen Act of Valor.

[dustdevil]

Daniel_187 I only see one problem. You. You are so intent are besmirching the character of someone that you dislike you want to play trivial pursuit. I worked with a person who swore they went to EOD school in Hawaii while he was in the Navy. I know that was a complete falsehood. I went to and graduated from NAVSCOLEOD and their is only one. It is run by the Navy and it is located at Eglin AFB in Florida there are no traveling schoolhouses. Does that mean he never served? I know for a fact that he had served and was honorably discharged. I have no idea why he was making this up. Did I dislike him for it? I did intensely dislike him for lying through his teeth. I never felt it was necessary to prove his falsehoods.

Did I never serve because I forgot what ranges I qualified at?
I don't remember how many 7.62mm rounds are in the ready ammo box on the M1A1 tank. Does that mean I never served?
I don't remember how many 120mm tank rounds were in the ready rack. Does that mean I never served.
I forgot what the major safety for F16 fighters. I believe it was asking if the APU had fired. I believe it was something to do about hydrozine. Does that mean I never served?
I cannot remember the physical differences between the Sidewinder missiles, models A through S. Does that mean I never served?
How much does the 120mm tank ammunition weigh? I forgot. Does that mean I never served?
I completely forgot the nuclear warhead that the Tomahawk missile was designed for. Does that mean I never served?
What were the differences between the FMU 54A, FMU 54B, and FMU 54A/B fuzes? Could not tell you now for any amount of money. I do remember it being extremely important in EOD school. Does that mean I never served?

I can tell you exactly how many friggin trucks there are on a military installation though. For some reason that useless tidbit has stuck in my head.

Their was a popular saying when I was in the Army "That and a $1.50 will buy you a cup of coffee." You want so badly to prove this guy wrong at what essentially is "Promotion Board Knowledge" that you are now making excuses. Please stop. You dishonor all veterans by playing silly little games. You will need more than trivia to really prove that he never served. You also need to realize not everyone got out proud and happy. People lost, discarded, and abandoned all traces of their military service.

A lot of conservative assholes will never serve, a lot of liberal assholes do serve.

[Joe_K]

I wonder how many Bronze Stars Were awarded between 92 and 93.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I wonder how many Bronze Stars Were awarded between 92 and 93.

In the aftermath of Desert Shield/Storm? Quite a few ...

[Joe_K]

In the aftermath of Desert Shield/Storm? Quite a few ...
Touche'

[SNAFU]

I can tell you exactly how many friggin trucks there are on a military installation though. For some reason that useless tidbit has stuck in my head.



Few even know what a truck is,much less what "cargo" they carry. ;)

[Daniel_187]

DustDevil,


I started this thread to get a few fact, and yes there was some gripes. You don't work with this guy and hear the stuff he fires out so. I am not hear to shit on Veterans, or any one on this site. The Mods can see I play well with other since I started visiting this site.

[KestrelBike]

I forgot what the major safety for F16 fighters. I believe it was asking if the APU had fired. I believe it was something to do about hydrozine.
Ooooh!! If it's really because of hydrazine, I think that it's because (and this is where I might get it seriously wrong) hydrazine is a liquid propellant that separates hydrogen from nitrogen (and I think ammonia might be a minor by-product), and in the presence of oxygen, all of the hydrogen if sparked or ignited by any source would create one hell of a reaction [explosion].

[dustdevil]

If I remember the F16 is the only US military aircraft that uses hydrozine. It is used, I think, in the Auxiliary Power Unit. The APU is sometimes fired by the pilot to maintain instruments etc. after engine loss. Hydrozine is extremely toxic and if the APU was fired SCBA had to be worn.

Daniel_187, I am not busting your chops for no reason. Your coworker in your opinion is a liberal. He is also a gun owner. I am inferring that he talks to you and approaches you about shooting and firearms ownership which you denounce. You despise him because of his political beliefs and want to prove to yourself he is no veteran because veterans can't be liberal. You are trying to enlist the aid of veterans to help discredit the man in a game of trivial pursuit.

Daniel_187 I will put this politely but you are treating your coworker like a dick. Gun ownership is not a particular political stance about every single topic in America. Not all gun owners believe the same as you do. Gun ownership and the Second Amendment is about respect for the Constitution and the Rights of Citizens of this great nation. It is a tangible, real, and useful right that anyone from poor to rich uneducated to the most educated can actively participate. It is a simple right and I don't have to be gifted, talented, strong, smart, clever, or rich to enjoy. We need more liberals owning guns. You should encourage not discourage firearm ownership to as many citizens as possible without taking into account any other aspect of their life. If you cannot stand this guy and cannot encourage his firearm ownership then you should refrain from political and other emotional topics and focus on your work. Insist that he does the same. Mainly because you are at work and are being paid to perform a job that does not include talking about non-job related topics.

That is how the military works for the most part. That service did not include getting into a pissing contest with everyone I worked with over politics. Our country has the most powerful military that humankind has ever put forth. That military includes Blacks, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Atheists, Whites, even friggin non-American nationals, conservatives, and liberals. One thing though they never included was you. Stop trying to denigrate someone that for all you know did serve.

[Ranger353]

As a no kidding, retired ID carrying, DD214 holding, USMC service license plate jarhead, I can't count how many times I have been approached by someone that claims to have been in the Corps. I always take them on their word that they are being honest and are who they say they are until proven otherwise. Many older Marines often get things confused, but with that said no Marine forgets their first unit, their first time on ship, their first time on a transport aircraft, or where the three active duty MEF headquarters are located. You know these things after 2-3 years in because the Corps is so small compared to the other services.

When someone in the 20's tries to tell me that they served in Desert Storm with the 5th Recon Division, my BS meter comes on. Personally, I always chuckle and thank them for their service. I know some other Retired and former active duty Marines that love to just jump into their face and tell them off. Why? Does it matter? Do they take away any of my service time or diminish my service? Have a laugh and let it go. There are wanna-bees in all facets of life, get over it.

[KestrelBike]

There are wanna-bees in all facets of life, get over it.

Good post. Also, unless they're stealing valor for monetary or victimizing gain, it might help to realize that some wannabes do it because their lives are otherwise dreadful and they have a serious void that makes them want to fill it with fantasy. Although you may not want to give those people pity, it should be understood that there's really nothing to gain from blowing up on them and giving them the fifth degree. They already feel like their lives are shit, why make them feel even worse?

[Irving]

Seems to me that people who lie about military careers are likely just habitual liars, period. They aren't specifically targeting military stuff to lie about, but since they lie about everything, they'll eventually lie about military related things. To a liar like that, lying about hooking up with a chick, making a certain amount of money, or serving their country, all registers (or doesn't register) the same to them. So it doesn't make much sense to get on someone's case about one lie over another.