View Full Version : Pledge to America
generalmeow
06-12-2015, 08:53
Does anyone else remember just 5 ago when the GOP made the pledge to America, and what that said?
I remember it because that was the day I stopped being a Republican. When I heard what the pledge to America said, I immediately said, "I've had enough". I knew there was no way in hell they were going to do any of the things they were promising to do going forward. I'm not going to swallow it. I'm sick of the GOP making a fool out of me and everyone else.
I can't recall the exact episodes, but I do recall within 6 months they started breaking their promises. And nobody asked them about it. Ever. They still don't ask them about it. WTF? There is a document written by the GOP saying specifically what they will not do if you vote for us, and they do exactly the opposite without being held accountable. If you still vote for them, you are not holding them accountable.
This latest episode involves Obamatrade, which is being debated in secret, and will be voted on without anyone reading it (least of all the public). This specifically violates a section of the pledge to America:
Read the Bill
We will ensure that bills are debated and
discussed in the public square by
publishing the text online for at least three
days before coming up for a vote in the
House of Representatives
.
No more hiding
legislative la
nguage from the minority
party, opponents, and the public
.
Legislation should be understood by all
interested parties before it is voted on
.
Full text: http://www.gop.gov/resources/library/documents/solutions/a-pledge-to-america.pdf
How much longer are you going to let the Republican party make a fool out of you? I feel great about having realized what was happening at least 5 years ago, and have been proving correct countless times since. I haven't voted Republican since, and I never will again. They're lying to you and me every time they speak. How can they have your trust at all?
Republican party? I think you meant ALL of congress.
clodhopper
06-12-2015, 10:27
Except the Dems were straight up about how they thought you were to much a simpleton to handle things and they were there to look after you, which is exactly what they have been doing. It was the Rs that claimed to be on your side and then have done the opposite.
Honey Badger282.8
06-12-2015, 10:52
So what's the alternative? We have a two party system, voting for a third party at the national level now is akin to voting for the incumbent regardless of who that may be. The only way to move past this two party system is to get the third party a legitimate foothold with local elections first. Right now, as it has been for years, the GOP is the lesser of two evils.
clodhopper
06-12-2015, 11:02
Right now, as it has been for years, the GOP is the lesser of two evils.
Maybe? Hard to tell anymore. Maybe it is better to vote for a known damn asshole than lying liar?
The third party will only happen when enough people are fed up with the two others. Continuing to vote "lesser of two evils" only perpetuates the two crappy parties.
Remember, the republican party didn't always exist. It overtook another dying warhorse of a party because it offered something more palatable to the people of the time. That change may happen again.
I could care less about anything the OP said. What I do care about is the $4,000 medical expenses hit I am taking this year with my Obamacare POS compliant medical plan. I absolutely fucking hate the Democrats, their programs, their taxes, their gun grabbing, their social engineering, their BS environmental policies, and their damn interference in my life. When they take control, all hell breaks loose. So no, I have no intention of cutting off my nose to spite my face on this.
SamuraiCO
06-12-2015, 11:36
I could care less about anything the OP said. What I do care about is the $4,000 medical expenses hit I am taking this year with my Obamacare POS compliant medical plan. I absolutely fucking hate the Democrats, their programs, their taxes, their gun grabbing, their social engineering, their BS environmental policies, and their damn interference in my life. When they take control, all hell breaks loose. So no, I have no intention of cutting off my nose to spite my face on this.
^^^^THIS^^^^
Not to mention the use of the judicial branch when legislative initiatives fail. You often wonder how some laws are upheld or overturned well when Dems have cart blanch to stack the judges they can move their agenda forward even when they are in the minority. We have yet to see what kind of damage the judges appointed by Reid when he suspended voting and just appointed judges Obama wanted for different federal courts.
At least when the captain and crew are "listening to us" we have a chance to advert running our country aground and get them to turn around.
May be too late for third party. We do have the option of supporting primary challengers to RINO members in more than just our state.
Ranger353
06-12-2015, 12:20
I never understood the underlying plan behind that PR campaign, I think it was ill-conceived and clumsily rolled out. The GOP of today is not the GOP of the 1980s, those ideas and ethics are long gone.
We are left with professional politicians that say just about anything to get elected and re-elected, to include switching party affiliations with no threat of repercussions. The whole thing just makes me mad and sad when I think of the world we are leaving our children and grandchildren.
The Republican Party more closely aligns with my personal beliefs. I believe we have a more fundamental problem than just bad officials, there is too much money in politics and local and state jurisdictions have lost too much power to the federal government. I will continue to vote republican until there is a "Viable" alternative.
A a majority of the population, and corporations, are on the government tit. People won't vote for liberty when they can maintain food in their bellies with virtually no effort. Most voters have no skin in the game; ie they pay no actual income tax, just FICA and Medicare, therefore they will vote for the people who will give them the most shit and that will mean tax the rich. The rich, by definition, the way the tax code is set up, includes me, I'm a construction worker by the way.
Libertarian is gaining in the polls. There is not enough to say they will win but I am guessing that the biggest reason is exactly the "voting of the lesser evil" belief. It is a self perpetuating system. They want you to HATE the other side so you will accept the lies as at least better than the alternative. Vote for the person, not the party, neither cares about us.
That's cute, but since Ross Perot, the third party hasn't done much to help conservative ideas. It bleeds off the voting power of the right wing and we lose in small margin elections.
p.s. I don't hate most democrats on a personal level. We agree on much, it's the politicians and media that drive a wedge between us and vilify the others. Extreme liberal douchebags are another story. There are some who are so far right that you can't have a serious conversation with them as well.
Have any third parties ever openly challenged either of the two mainstay parties? Seems to me the best way to get people to come over to your side is to directly target the other party's base and tell them why your party is better for them than their current party. Kind of like phone companies offering to buy out contracts.
Bailey Guns
06-12-2015, 14:39
I could care less about anything the OP said. What I do care about is the $4,000 medical expenses hit I am taking this year with my Obamacare POS compliant medical plan. I absolutely fucking hate the Democrats, their programs, their taxes, their gun grabbing, their social engineering, their BS environmental policies, and their damn interference in my life. When they take control, all hell breaks loose. So no, I have no intention of cutting off my nose to spite my face on this.
Thank you. Is the GOP perfect? Of course not. Is it a night and day difference between the GOP and the Democrat Party in their core beliefs ? You bet your ass it is. Anyone who says differently is speaking from stupidity, ignorance, emotion or all of the above without looking objectively at the facts. And you don't have a clue how politics work at the state and national levels, regardless of how much you say or think you do.
Talking to people who vote 3rd party is like talking to a rock. If you'd rather vote 3rd party, or not vote out of some misguided protest against the GOP, you might as well get used to the idea of people like Obama and Clinton occupying the White House for a long, long time.
Like the old saying (sort of) goes...wish for the ideal candidate in one hand and crap in the other hand and see which one fills up fastest.
Bailey Guns
06-12-2015, 14:44
Libertarian is gaining in the polls. There is not enough to say they will win but I am guessing that the biggest reason is exactly the "voting of the lesser evil" belief. It is a self perpetuating system. They want you to HATE the other side so you will accept the lies as at least better than the alternative. Vote for the person, not the party, neither cares about us.
The Libertarian Party isn't doing dick at the national level. Gary Johnson ran the most successful L party presidential campaign ever and got about 1% of the vote (1.1 million, roughly).
All of the candidates in the history of L party presidential candidates have scored a whopping 1 electoral college vote.
If you want to vote for a guaranteed loser, vote Libertarian.
And if you don't understand why the party is far more important than the person in our system you don't understand politics, either.
Actually I agree. Ross getting out was a good thing. His son seems to be going about it better, from within. I'm not sure if I trust him yet but he sure as hell is not going with the party line.... And I like that.
That's cute, but since Ross Perot, the third party hasn't done much to help conservative ideas. It bleeds off the voting power of the right wing and we lose in small margin elections.
p.s. I don't hate most democrats on a personal level. We agree on much, it's the politicians and media that drive a wedge between us and vilify the others. Extreme liberal douchebags are another story. There are some who are so far right that you can't have a serious conversation with them as well.
Great-Kazoo
06-12-2015, 15:04
Have any third parties ever openly challenged either of the two mainstay parties? Seems to me the best way to get people to come over to your side is to directly target the other party's base and tell them why your party is better for them than their current party. Kind of like phone companies offering to buy out contracts.
Ross Perot, You even History Bro? ;) it spawned what would later be the generic political bumper sticker. Originally said DON'T BLAME ME I VOTED FOR PEROT.
58949Unless you think that 18.9% was going to vote for bill, it doesn't appear to have helped conservatives.
generalmeow
06-12-2015, 16:37
If all the people who said "don't vote for a third party because you're throwing away your vote" actually voted for a third party....
You're counting on everyone else being pussies, and guess what? You're one of them. They're counting on you being a pussy too, and you'll prove them right.
If you continue to vote GOP after the number of times they have lied to you, and even though it's clear they're hurting you, you're like an abused wife who keeps going back to her husband. "Well, I can either go back, or I can go out on the street with no money". I guess voting third party is the same as going out on the street with no money. People with self respect would choose to go out on the street over remaining in an abusive situation.
Are you really scared of what is going to happen if you go out on the street? Aren't you a man who can protect himself, and can't you pick yourself up and gather with others and establish something new and worthwhile? Or are you going to continue scurrying around the feet of the GOP, hoping for some protection in numbers, and hoping to not get stepped on? I'm not going to live like that.
Right, I'm a pussy because I accept present reality for what it is. F it. I'm going to write myself in on the ballot, maybe enough other people will do the same that it will be a tie. We can have a runoff.
generalmeow
06-12-2015, 17:03
Right, I'm a pussy because I accept present reality for what it is. F it. I'm going to write myself in on the ballot, maybe enough other people will do the same that it will be a tie. We can have a runoff.
Why do you not vote third party? Because you believe nobody else is going to. They don't because they believe you are not going to. You are both correct. Chicken is probably a better word than pussy. You're just chicken to vote third party. That's why they call it a game of chicken.
Surely you don't vote GOP because they're the most trustworthy, or you believe they're actually going to do what they say they're going to do, or that they're not just lining their pockets at your expense. It's a sure thing that you could find a 3rd party who would represent you better. But you're too chicken to vote for them.
Don't be too hard on yourself though. Most other people are too.
http://www.screeninsults.com/images/back-to-the-future-punk-truck.JPG
Great-Kazoo
06-12-2015, 17:22
I don't vote 3rd party due to there being no one that makes me want to say, Hey This Guy / Gal has the right idea. Not because i or anyone else is a pussy. Fuk one can't disagree w/out being called on their man or womanhood.
Honey Badger282.8
06-12-2015, 17:33
If all the people who said "don't vote for a third party because you're throwing away your vote" actually voted for a third party....
You're counting on everyone else being pussies, and guess what? You're one of them. They're counting on you being a pussy too, and you'll prove them right.
If you continue to vote GOP after the number of times they have lied to you, and even though it's clear they're hurting you, you're like an abused wife who keeps going back to her husband. "Well, I can either go back, or I can go out on the street with no money". I guess voting third party is the same as going out on the street with no money. People with self respect would choose to go out on the street over remaining in an abusive situation.
Are you really scared of what is going to happen if you go out on the street? Aren't you a man who can protect himself, and can't you pick yourself up and gather with others and establish something new and worthwhile? Or are you going to continue scurrying around the feet of the GOP, hoping for some protection in numbers, and hoping to not get stepped on? I'm not going to live like that.
It is what it is. Fact is that once you take off the rose colored glasses you'll see that voting third party at the national level is an exercise in futility at this point in time. Even third party candidates realize this, that's why Bernie Sanders is pursuing the Presidential ticket as a Democrat despite being unaffiliated in the Senate.
Bailey Guns
06-12-2015, 21:58
If all the people who said "don't vote for a third party because you're throwing away your vote" actually voted for a third party....
You're counting on everyone else being pussies, and guess what? You're one of them. They're counting on you being a pussy too, and you'll prove them right.
If you continue to vote GOP after the number of times they have lied to you, and even though it's clear they're hurting you, you're like an abused wife who keeps going back to her husband. "Well, I can either go back, or I can go out on the street with no money". I guess voting third party is the same as going out on the street with no money. People with self respect would choose to go out on the street over remaining in an abusive situation.
Are you really scared of what is going to happen if you go out on the street? Aren't you a man who can protect himself, and can't you pick yourself up and gather with others and establish something new and worthwhile? Or are you going to continue scurrying around the feet of the GOP, hoping for some protection in numbers, and hoping to not get stepped on? I'm not going to live like that.
Delusional.
Bailey Guns
06-12-2015, 22:00
Right, I'm a pussy because I accept present reality for what it is. F it. I'm going to write myself in on the ballot, maybe enough other people will do the same that it will be a tie. We can have a runoff.
You'll probably get more votes than the L candidate.
I'm not certain when name calling became a tool of persuasion. In my experience it often has the opposite effect and often results in convincing the people you are trying to make you point to, tune you out.
Just a thought. [Flower]
I'm not certain when name calling became a tool of persuasion. In my experience it often has the opposite effect and often results in convincing the people you are trying to make you point to, tune you out.
Just a thought. [Flower]
Oh, sure, reasonable user of logic. [Coffee]
Bailey Guns
06-13-2015, 09:37
Why do you not vote third party?
Because they can't/don't win. I at least want a chance for my vote to count for something. I live in the real world...not Fantasyland.
Because you believe nobody else is going to.
Because they don't. Don't take my word for it...look at the numbers.
They don't because they believe you are not going to.
If, in fact, that's what "they" believe..."they" are right. I'm not. Because they can't win. Not because others don't do it. Only a few idealistic people vote 3rd party. Rational people don't because rational people understand politics and understand it's a wasted vote.
You are both correct.
Glad you recognize that.
Chicken is probably a better word than pussy. You're just chicken to vote third party. That's why they call it a game of chicken.
Another good example of why it's a waste of time and effort attempting to have an adult discussion with 3rd party voters. But rational adults will try anyway, even when this type of statement is the outcome.
Surely you don't vote GOP because they're the most trustworthy, or you believe they're actually going to do what they say they're going to do, or that they're not just lining their pockets at your expense.
I vote for the GOP (party over person) because they most closely represent my beliefs and, unlike libertarians, they actually win elections. That's it.
It's a sure thing that you could find a 3rd party who would represent you better. But you're too chicken to vote for them.
No, I don't vote for them because they're unrealistic losers. They can't, and don't, win elections. Even you should be able to comprehend that.
Don't be too hard on yourself though. Most other people are too.
I'm perfectly fine with my outlook on the realities of politics.
I'm going to write in baileyguns if he does too, he'll have twice as many votes and be sure to get elected.
Excellent points (again for the umpteenth time) Bailey Guns.
Q. What has the (L) done to promote its ideas and the actions it would take if elected to high office?
A. Nada, nil, zero, zip, bupkiss, NOTHING...not one flier or advertisement on TV/Radio. ...and I'm supposed to vote for these people, these invisible people who won't promote themselves or their agenda?
The least they could do is say, HEY! we got 1 percent of the voters who actually vote to vote for us, in 4 years we're gonna get 2 percent. The (L) hasn't even done that.
I recall mentioning this little problem of spreading the (L) message and being told that it was MY job to spread the (L) message. Bullshit! Get off your party off its ass and get to work! First you guys might want to read some books on presenting your arguments in a positive light and always be polite when you're trying to win someone over.
It has been said many times, but being a libertarian is not the same thing as being a member of the Libertarian party.
What ever happened to the Bull moose Party? I think Bernie Sanders is either a member of the Socialist Party or an Independent. Any takers? [Sarcasm2]
It has been said many times, but being a libertarian is not the same thing as being a member of the Libertarian party.
What ever happened to the Bull moose Party? I think Bernie Sanders is either a member of the Socialist Party or an Independent. Any takers? [Sarcasm2]
OK.
I don't know.
Yes.
No.
generalmeow
06-13-2015, 21:41
Its incredibly easy to demonstrate who is delusional on this topic. Are the people who blindly support a two party system responsible for the position we find ourselves in, or are the people who don't?
We all know the definition of insanity. Are you saying in this particular case it's the people who refuse to keep doing what isn't working are the ones ones who are insane? Might want to rethink that.
Bailey Guns
06-13-2015, 22:14
We all know the definition of insanity. Are you saying in this particular case it's the people who refuse to keep doing what isn't working are the ones ones who are insane?
Like voting for a party that gets one percent of the vote over and over and over, election after election? Grow up.
BTW: the definition of insanity is nothing of the sort you stated. It's a nice little cliche but means nothing to intelligent people. Kinda like voting for Libertarian candidates or other 3rd party losers.
I prefer using this quote by Heinlein as a guideline, instead of someone that trots out "pussy" and "chicken" and "delusional" as a method of trying to sway people to his viewpoint. I've found that many Democrats tend to use this tactic, and they are confused/frustrated when it doesn't perpetuate a discussion. Your persuasion tactics need some SERIOUS work, generalmeow, if you have even a hope in hell of convincing people that you would like to have a discussion about politics (instead of simply trolling and insulting anyone that doesn't agree with you off the bat). Lord knows there's a ton of that on Facebook already; I'd hope we can all come to a mutual understanding of how to have an adult conversation- whether or not we disagree with each other.
The quote: “If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to vote for ... but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule you will rarely go wrong.”
And that would seem to be a good note to end of this thread.
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