View Full Version : Mass shooting in South Carolina
State senator now confirmed among the dead.
Clementa C. Pinckney (D)
Church was a Gun Free Zone.
Link to Fox News
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/18/police-respond-to-shooting-at-sc-church/
Big John
06-18-2015, 05:14
Race relation's such as they are... It was only a matter of time.
Race relation's such as they are... It was only a matter of time.
That' s total BS. Race relations have been a lot worse in this countries past, especially in that area. Shooting up a church ( or anything for that matter ) is never excusable. Prayers to the victims families.
Bailey Guns
06-18-2015, 06:09
Didn't take long to announce this one was a "hate crime".
Didn't take long to announce this one was a "hate crime".
Do you think it'll matter after committing mass murder, including a public official, in a church? I think being branded a hate crime is the least of his worries. Hopefully the shooter saved everyone some time and took care of it himself.
To say that I was disappointed to hear this news would be a grave understatement.
Rucker61
06-18-2015, 07:00
Do you think it'll matter after committing mass murder, including a public official, in a church? I think being branded a hate crime is the least of his worries. Hopefully the shooter saved everyone some time and took care of it himself.
I'm hoping for a gutshot then escape for a few days or so.
Great-Kazoo
06-18-2015, 07:00
State senator now confirmed among the dead.
Clementa C. Pinckney (D)
Church was a Gun Free Zone.
Also the pastor of said church.
That' s total BS. Race relations have been a lot worse in this countries past, especially in that area. Shooting up a church ( or anything for that matter ) is never excusable. Prayers to the victims families.
It's not excusable or justified by any stretch.
These kinds of crimes are why so many fear the silent and steady repeal of equal protection. There is a sense there is no justice so people act on their own and it becomes eye-for-an-eye. That is the stuff of third world countries.
Race relations are at the lowest point in my lifetime (I am a hair under 40). I have never seen it this bad nor have I heard people say the things I've heard in real life (not just the internet). The Leftist take-over of media isn't helping when everything is a race issue and it's in your face 24/7.
The Black Community will read this as nine blacks being lynched by a white. The Dems/media will play into that. It is a demonstration that white supremacy is a very real threat--and they will work gun control into this because they have been struggling to make gun control a race issue to advance it. The 15 blacks murdered in Chicago last weekend will be ignored. The 40+ murdered in Baltimore's bloodiest month since 1972 will be ignored. There will be little perspective given and people will in turn act on this.
mtnrider
06-18-2015, 08:41
Just in time for Obama to push forward more gun control.....
Prayers to the victims and families.
Bitter Clinger
06-18-2015, 08:43
Authorities know who did it now.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/06/18/3671167/church-shooting-suspect-identified-dylan-storm-roof/
The FBI has identified the shooting suspect who allegedly opened fire on an African American church in Charleston, South Carolina on Wednesday night, killing 9 people.
The alleged shooter is Dylann Storm Roof, a 21-year-old white male from the Columbia area, according to local news station WISTV (http://www.wistv.com/story/29351540/charleston-shooting-suspect-from-columbia-area). A manhunt is still underway to find him.
Roof is out on bond for charges related to drugs and trespassing, according to an editor for The Post and Courier (https://twitter.com/glennsmith5/status/611534268477624320). A mug shot for his trespassing arrest can be viewed here.
The alleged shooter reportedly said, “I have to do it. You rape our women and you’re taking over our country. And you have to go,” according to a witness interviewed by NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/video/church-gunman-reportedly-said-i-have-to-do-it-467402819802?hootPostID=d42d6d976475a7c120c9d570d6 982923).
UPDATE JUN 18, 2015 10:29 AM
Reuters reports (http://live.reuters.com/Event/US_Live_Blog/168953764) that the uncle of the 21-year-old suspect was given a gun for his birthday, a .45-caliber pistol. The uncle, Carson Cowles, came forward when he recognized the photo police distributed and described his nephew as "quiet and soft-spoken."
BPTactical
06-18-2015, 08:46
Authorities know who did it now.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/06/18/3671167/church-shooting-suspect-identified-dylan-storm-roof/
The FBI has identified the shooting suspect who allegedly opened fire on an African American church in Charleston, South Carolina on Wednesday night, killing 9 people.
The alleged shooter is Dylann Storm Roof, a 21-year-old white male from the Columbia area, according to local news station WISTV (http://www.wistv.com/story/29351540/charleston-shooting-suspect-from-columbia-area). A manhunt is still underway to find him.
Roof is out on bond for charges related to drugs and trespassing, according to an editor for The Post and Courier (https://twitter.com/glennsmith5/status/611534268477624320). A mug shot for his trespassing arrest can be viewed here.
The alleged shooter reportedly said, “I have to do it. You rape our women and you’re taking over our country. And you have to go,” according to a witness interviewed by NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/video/church-gunman-reportedly-said-i-have-to-do-it-467402819802?hootPostID=d42d6d976475a7c120c9d570d6 982923).
UPDATE JUN 18, 2015 10:29 AM
Reuters reports (http://live.reuters.com/Event/US_Live_Blog/168953764) that the uncle of the 21-year-old suspect was given a gun for his birthday, a .45-caliber pistol. The uncle, Carson Cowles, came forward when he recognized the photo police distributed and described his nephew as "quiet and soft-spoken."
Well that oughta fan the flames.....
Bailey Guns
06-18-2015, 08:49
Do you think it'll matter after committing mass murder, including a public official, in a church? I think being branded a hate crime is the least of his worries. Hopefully the shooter saved everyone some time and took care of it himself.
Not the point. In my opinion it was immediately denounced as a "hate crime" because of the race of the criminal/victims. It seems it takes days or weeks to announce an obvious act of terror as that even though the perpetrator was yelling "Allah ackbar", and rarely do crimes committed by blacks against whites get labeled as hate crimes.
Yes, racism is alive and well. And, yes, in my opinion, it is fueled by the leftist mass media and others on the left. It's also fueled by so-called black leaders, like Sharpton, Jackson and Obama. I believe racism by blacks towards white is far more prevalent these days than the other way around. Just my opinion from what I see in the "news".
I also agree with Skip. The recent mass killings (even though they don't meet the strict definition) in Chicago, Baltimore and other inner city areas of the country of blacks, by blacks, will largely be ignored because it doesn't fit the leftist racism agenda.
Prayers for all the victims. Hopefully Dylann saves us all some time and takes himself out.
ChunkyMonkey
06-18-2015, 08:57
RIP and prayers to the family. Aside the why and how, this is reason #3743 why carry.. Fun free zone or not, prohibited signs or not
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It was about time for another panic. :( The script to this one sounds...scripted.
RIP to all those killed.
thvigil11
06-18-2015, 09:02
Well that oughta fan the flames.....
Prepper your anguses. Time to ban the high capacity plastic glock ak47 ghostguns.
Sucks that this loon continues to breath. Prayers for the victims and families.
Singlestack
06-18-2015, 09:12
Not the point. In my opinion it was immediately denounced as a "hate crime" because of the race of the criminal/victims. It seems it takes days or weeks to announce an obvious act of terror as that even though the perpetrator was yelling "Allah ackbar", and rarely do crimes committed by blacks against whites get labeled as hate crimes.
Yes, and years in the case of Ft. Hood massacre
It was about time for another panic. :( The script to this one sounds...scripted.
RIP to all those killed.
I don't know, you really think this will cause another panic? I don't think it will, sandy hook set the new standard and the bar was set high for these crazies.
It is sad to hear of this news and prayers go out to the families, yet another senseless act of violence in a gun free zone
I don't know, you really think this will cause another panic? I don't think it will, sandy hook set the new standard and the bar was set high for these crazies.
Maybe not for AR's and such but if the reports of him being given the gun as a present are true, that gives fuel for more gun control. That usually sparks some kind of panic, especially as we approach election year.
Maybe not for AR's and such but if the reports of him being given the gun as a present are true, that gives fuel for more gun control. That usually sparks some kind of panic, especially as we approach election year.
Good point, kinda like the new law we have that requires a background check every time. Sounds like this may have been a gift from an uncle, I can see that coming back up nationally again now for sure.
Rucker61
06-18-2015, 09:44
Good point, kinda like the new law we have that requires a background check every time. Sounds like this may have been a gift from an uncle, I can see that coming back up nationally again now for sure.
Based on what little we know about the shooter, he would have passed a background check.
It's good that he was caught alive. Now maybe, like Holmes, they can prove that he is Full Tilt Bozo and not typical of gun owners. I hope they find that other people knew he should not have access to a gun but did nothing.
Maybe we should not let anybody under age 30 named Dylan own a gun. I don't think his parents liked him very much from day one, naming your kid Storm Roof, really.
The Race issue is blowing up. The current admin is getting what they want.
Rucker61
06-18-2015, 09:54
If he thought that black men raping white WOMEN was a problem, wait until he gets to prison.
Based on what little we know about the shooter, he would have passed a background check.
It said he was out on bond for drugs and trespassing? I don't know when those incidences took place in relation to when he obtained the gun.
It said he was out on bond for drugs and trespassing? I don't know when those incidences took place in relation to when he obtained the gun.
Is it premature to assume we'll never get a clear answer on if he was a prohibited person or not?
There are several levels of criminal trespassing. Usually it's a misdemeanor and doesn't result in wearing orange.
Zundfolge
06-18-2015, 10:04
I'm more worried about how this case is going to affect race relations than gun rights.
Also this jackass will also be used to paint anyone to the right of Noam Chomsky as a "Tea Party Racist".
The point our side needs to make is that churches in South Carolina are gun free zones by law.
The Race issue is blowing up. The current admin is getting what they want.
He would certainly appear to be a racist...
http://puu.sh/itznO/e025b30800.png
http://www.weaselzippers.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Screen-Shot-2015-06-18-at-10.55.57-AM.png
People who make everything about guns are assholes. That goes for people on both sides of the argument.
If he thought that black men raping white WOMEN was a problem, wait until he gets to prison.
Reminds me of a Ron White routine about an inmate named ThunderDick! [LOL]
He would certainly appear to be a racist...
http://puu.sh/itznO/e025b30800.png
I'd suspect so.
Flags of Apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia.
colorider
06-18-2015, 10:26
This whole black vs white/white vs black shit is out of fucking control. We have taken such a step back in race relations it is absurd. And it's going to get worse. Obama, sharpton and all the other race zelots have created a huge fucking mess. Also blame the media for instantly jumping on the race blame bullshit. I this instance instantly calling it a Hate Crime.
Obama just went "there" with gun violence. Here we go again.....
How about Obama taking responsibility for this sort of crap by fueling the racist fires with his rhetoric about all Travon, Ferguson, etc.... Nope, it's the guns man... Before he even knows anything about the facts, it's the "someone who had easy access to a gun" - or whatever he just said... Incredible - never miss an opportunity to further your party agenda. Why am I not surprised.
Any link to his speech? I'd like to read what he said.
I hope that this incident will allow it to finally be brought into the national spotlight that any time a gun free zone is created, it is like a magnet for deranged people to go to kill without fear of being killed. It should be shouted from the mountain top that who ever these people are that create these gun spree zones they must also be held accountable. I get emotional every time this is allowed to happen to people that are not able to lawfully protect themselves.
It needs to be law that if you want a gun free zone you MUST provide security because you are accountable for lives of the peoples inside. It's too easy for someone to hang a gun free zone sign up and walk away feeling good about themselves. It is just wrong when people get to create a situation that get people killed and these stupid people believe that if we had just one more of these gun spree zones it would have saved a life. How long before these stupid people realize that anybody hell bent on breaking the law and killing people are not going to read a f'ing sign and walk away.
I think the government should use some of our tax dollars to do an actual useful study and do one on mass shootings and there relationship to gun free zones. I know that shooting incidents are higher in these gun spree zones. I don't believe this whole situation would be a whole lot different if this guy had used a Katana in this gun free zone, people still did not have the means to protect themselves.
funkymonkey1111
06-18-2015, 10:55
get ready for amping up the summer of rage
I think that most of the people on this board are intelligent enough to know that the media is out for a story. They don't care what the ramifications of their broadcasts or print might incite. It doesn't matter if this was a purple woman shooting up a group of blue people. It's just wrong and sad. People on Twitter are idiots. I remeber when PK Subban of the Habs scored a goal on the Bruins and racist remarks were actually trending. Anonymity and social media breed idiots. There are ignorant, racist people on every side and in every corner of this country. No one holds province on it. In the end a bunch of people worshipping were killed in a church and that is just dead wrong no matter how you slice it. It would just as wrong if a Jewish person shot up a Mosque. It's also wrong that we turn a blind eye to the violence in Chicago and Baltimore but mass murder will always get the headlines. This area of the country has always been a tinder box ( half of my family is from that region) and this will no doubt paint a lot of people with a broad brush. Especially in lieu of the officer shooting the fleeing suspect. I can't imagine what these families are going through.
Not the point. In my opinion it was immediately denounced as a "hate crime" because of the race of the criminal/victims. It seems it takes days or weeks to announce an obvious act of terror as that even though the perpetrator was yelling "Allah ackbar", and rarely do crimes committed by blacks against whites get labeled as hate crimes.
Yes, racism is alive and well. And, yes, in my opinion, it is fueled by the leftist mass media and others on the left. It's also fueled by so-called black leaders, like Sharpton, Jackson and Obama. I believe racism by blacks towards white is far more prevalent these days than the other way around. Just my opinion from what I see in the "news".
I also agree with Skip. The recent mass killings (even though they don't meet the strict definition) in Chicago, Baltimore and other inner city areas of the country of blacks, by blacks, will largely be ignored because it doesn't fit the leftist racism agenda.
i agree with you to a point Bailey. I think it's myopic to think that racism is driven by one thing. I think that it starts at home and is driven forward by external factors like the media, peers, lack of education etc. I also don't think that any one group is "more" racist than the other. Just look at this board. It's a cross section of America. We have every kind of citizen represented here. When we all get together and go shooting no one see's any color. We may throw good natured barbs but that's what friends do. Less we forget everything before and up to the 1960's. Despite the media reports, we've come a long way. I don't think many here tolerate the idea of racist ideals.
kidicarus13
06-18-2015, 11:15
Any link to his speech? I'd like to read what he said.
http://news.yahoo.com/charleston-church-shooting-massacre-manhunt-live-103930165.html
"I've had to make statements like these too many times," Obama said. "Once again innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun."
Hold on, the first hill is a doozy if you're not ready for it.
Civility in posting is appreciated.
There are various aspects of this crime that will be discussed ad infinitum, here and elsewhere. If you have an agenda to promote a belief that the USA is a racist nation bent on the domination of any particular group of people by another particular group of people, please seek another venue to discuss your theory. It will not be tolerated here.
I hope many of you can agree with me that the death of any innocent person is tragic. I seek healing for those who have been harmed and justice for anyone who seeks to harm an innocent.
Hug your loved ones and know that we all have only so many days of life alloted to each of us. Live well. Love many. Be safe.
All it takes is a little subliminal prodding. Same as with McVeigh. Mention something to someone who is borderline and hope he carries it out.
Job done, gov. gains more power. People pay the price.
He was out on bond for a felony drug charge.
I'm sure SC already has laws on the books that make it illegal for him to possess firearms.
Yet, his father gave him a .45 this year for his birthday?
His classmate's comments about him make me wonder about a possible SSRI connection - as if the prescription drugs and meth is not enough.
BPTactical
06-18-2015, 12:46
Firearm or not, an individual bent on causing harm is the weapon.
UrbanWolf
06-18-2015, 13:16
Yep Rhodesian flag, we all know how racist the whites were in Africa. The freed country of Zimbabwe was much better off.... *sarcasm*
He would certainly appear to be a racist...
http://puu.sh/itznO/e025b30800.png
Charleston church shooting: Without gun control, racism will keep killing black people
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/18/charleston-church-shooting-gun-control-racism-killing-black-people-us
Never let a crisis go to waste, right?
UrbanWolf
06-18-2015, 13:24
Charleston church shooting: Without gun control, racism will keep killing black people
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/18/charleston-church-shooting-gun-control-racism-killing-black-people-us
Never let a crisis go to waste, right?
You think that's bad? The facebook and twitter gun control/racist control bandwagon started yesterday.
You think that's bad? The facebook and twitter gun control/racist control bandwagon started yesterday.
Disarm Whites....
http://www.infowars.com/charleston-shooting-liberals-call-for-disarming-all-white-people/
Liberals are sub human.
Bailey Guns
06-18-2015, 13:43
Oh, now I remember... That's exactly why I don't do social media. I'm afraid the stupidity displayed there might be highly contagious.
Oh, now I remember... That's exactly why I don't do social media. I'm afraid the stupidity displayed there might be highly contagious.
Exactly. Let's let the tweets or unsubstantiated Facebook posts of a few people speak for everyone [facepalm] Why do people let themselves get drawn into these mindless rants? Every time someone reposts that garbage they've won. Your spreading their message for them. Like our parents use to tell us......just ignore it.
Oh, now I remember... That's exactly why I don't do social media. I'm afraid the stupidity displayed there might be highly contagious.
Count me as another in agreement with this.
Exactly. Let's let the tweets or unsubstantiated Facebook posts of a few people speak for everyone [facepalm] Why do people let themselves get drawn into these mindless rants? Every time someone reposts that garbage they've won. Your spreading their message for them. Like our parents use to tell us......just ignore it.
Because that's the battlespace and we can ignore it at our own peril.
One of the most ridiculous things about the radical transformation is that the ramblings of a unemployed 20-something from his mom's basement carry more weight than what you or I think/say precisely because he put them on FB. All opinions are now equal and his are published.
What's worse is that those ramblings become fact if they remain unchallenged, not just for the speaker, but others as well.
May not matter so much to you or I, but the future generation lives on this stuff.
jerrymrc
06-18-2015, 15:16
I think the MSM loves this because it does two things. One has been mentioned many times already and two it takes all the attention away from the Spokane issue.Just my take on it.
Because that's the battlespace and we can ignore it at our own peril....May not matter so much to you or I, but the future generation lives on this stuff.
If members would like to dispute these issues on Facebook, Twitter, etc... they are welcome to do so. I will delete the next repost here of something being circulated on FB, Twitter or other social media source about the racial aspect of this case.
For those who wish to repost from infowars, the guardian, or other similar "news" sources, please understand that your position in the discussion will be discounted by most based on your choice of such a questionable source.
The people of Charleston, SC, need to look no farther than the current criminal trial in Arapahoe County of another individual who decided to kill innocent people for his own demented purposes to see what is in their future.
This crime is less than 24 hours old. In my experience, we know just about nothing other than nine people are dead. One suspect is in custody. And everyone has their own opinion about what they think happened. Because others have rushed to judgment about what this one act of violence means to the future of our nation does not mean that we must do so. Be patient. Many things will come out over the following months and many of them will be true. Almost as many of the things that come out will be false.
I think the MSM loves this because it does two things. One has been mentioned many times already and two it takes all the attention away from the Spokane issue.Just my take on it.
In other news, the trade promotion bill just passed in the house, 218 - 208.
What's Caitlyn wearing today?
Bailey Guns
06-18-2015, 15:36
Exactly. Let's let the tweets or unsubstantiated Facebook posts of a few people speak for everyone [facepalm] Why do people let themselves get drawn into these mindless rants? Every time someone reposts that garbage they've won. Your spreading their message for them. Like our parents use to tell us......just ignore it.
Uh, no... They've already won by having a worldwide voice that other like-minded idiots will listen to. I choose not to participate. If you want to, knock yourself out.
sellersm
06-18-2015, 15:47
In other news, the trade promotion bill just passed in the house, 218 - 208.
Sad news. So is this shooting. For the record, the whole thing stinks.
Don't mean to be contrarian to cstone, but the facts will probably never see the light of day... And if they did, most wouldn't accept them, and the MSM will never publish them.
Uh, no... They've already won by having a worldwide voice that other like-minded idiots will listen to. I choose not to participate. If you want to, knock yourself out.
That was Sarcasm Bailey. I don't do Twitter etc
Because that's the battlespace and we can ignore it at our own peril.
One of the most ridiculous things about the radical transformation is that the ramblings of a unemployed 20-something from his mom's basement carry more weight than what you or I think/say precisely because he put them on FB. All opinions are now equal and his are published.
What's worse is that those ramblings become fact if they remain unchallenged, not just for the speaker, but others as well.
May not matter so much to you or I, but the future generation lives on this stuff.
I won't get into a debate when we all agree that this was a horrible event. As far as debating others on social media, it's a "fools errand"
sellersm
06-18-2015, 16:58
http://news.yahoo.com/charleston-church-shooting-massacre-manhunt-live-103930165.html
"I've had to make statements like these too many times," Obama said. "Once again innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun."
Can anyone explain why Obama isn't as angry & sad that Hamas, ISIS & the Taliban have murdered tens of thousands?
Can anyone explain why Obama isn't as angry & sad that Hamas, ISIS & the Taliban have murdered tens of thousands?
Good question. It didn't take him long to shoot his mouth off about gun control. If you don't like our constitutional rights, get the fuck out! A shit storm is brewing, and a much bigger issue is a play here; that is about all I have to say about that.
This mass shooting is no different than any other. A sad individual commits an act of cowardice and they become media celebrities. Firearms are not the problem, actions are.
Condolences to the families who have lost love ones due to this sack of shit.
What a horrible tragedy.
What strikes me about this slaughter is that according to witnesses, he came into the church and sat with them for about an hour before he stood up and began shooting. He reloaded, all while people were trying to talk him out of it. He left a witness alive so they would tell others.
21 years old. What the hell. What the hell, man.
What a horrible tragedy.
What strikes me about this slaughter is that according to witnesses, he came into the church and sat with them for about an hour before he stood up and began shooting. He reloaded, all while people were trying to talk him out of it. He left a witness alive so they would tell others.
21 years old. What the hell. What the hell, man.
Hell
Yup.
It's not excusable or justified by any stretch.
These kinds of crimes are why so many fear the silent and steady repeal of equal protection. There is a sense there is no justice so people act on their own and it becomes eye-for-an-eye. That is the stuff of third world countries.
Race relations are at the lowest point in my lifetime (I am a hair under 40). I have never seen it this bad nor have I heard people say the things I've heard in real life (not just the internet). The Leftist take-over of media isn't helping when everything is a race issue and it's in your face 24/7.
The Black Community will read this as nine blacks being lynched by a white. The Dems/media will play into that. It is a demonstration that white supremacy is a very real threat--and they will work gun control into this because they have been struggling to make gun control a race issue to advance it. The 15 blacks murdered in Chicago last weekend will be ignored. The 40+ murdered in Baltimore's bloodiest month since 1972 will be ignored. There will be little perspective given and people will in turn act on this.
You mentioned what the Blacks and Dems will do, what will the Conservatives and Whites do to help the situation ?
Griff
A couple of thoughts,
This is the stuff the media preys on, the bloodier the better, the more "race baiting" they can tie in is even better. They are in Obama's pocket.
Some sources say that one out of every nine people have mental problems, some are under control and others are not. Statistically speaking, there are a lot of wackos out there and things like this are a rare compared to what it could be, given the geek probability numbers.
The human mind. Who knows what demons were in this kids head ( As well as many other mass murderers in the past) and how many pills were prescribed to deal with the situation. Sometimes evil is just evil but.....
Prayers to all who were lost and their loved ones, in times like these people might question their faith. Stay strong.
You mentioned what the Blacks and Dems will do, what will the Conservatives and Whites do to help the situation ?
Griff
All that conservative whites can do every time this type of thing happens, to let people know what we stand for and that this is wrong on every level. That we will do everything we can to identify, isolate and put down of anybody willing to perpetrate this level of violence on a civilized society. To let the world know that this type of inhumane behavior can never be tolerated on any level by any civilized society. That conservative white people will never condone or allow this behavior on any level regardless of their rational. That conservative whites will not idly stand by and do what the Muslim leadership does by failing to decry this behavior as abhorrent and something must never be perpetrated regardless of race, color, religion, age or sex.
You mentioned what the Blacks and Dems will do, what will the Conservatives and Whites do to help the situation ?
Griff
Not picking on you Griff, but I hope no one is implying that the term black goes with Dems any more than white goes with Conservative. Do people who identify as black overwhelmingly support the Democratic party? While not true throughout history, it certainly has been true for most of my lifetime. Clearly there are people who are white, or identify as white, who support the Democratic party. The same can be said of the white and conservative connection that is implied. No one here can tell the political leaning of another person by the color of their skin. You may make assumptions but that is all they would be; assumptions.
Character is not measured by the quantity of melanin in a person's skin. Neither is intelligence, compassion, or patriotism.
Bailey Guns
06-18-2015, 21:59
You mentioned what the Blacks and Dems will do, what will the Conservatives and Whites do to help the situation ?
Griff
I can't speak for anyone else... But as a white conservative I'll continue to treat everyone I come into contact with as I'd like to be treated. If they happen to prove they don't deserve my respect it won't be because of their skin color.
...I'll continue to treat everyone I come into contact with as I'd like to be treated. If they happen to prove they don't deserve my respect it won't be because of their skin color.
Lived my life that way. Won't change now.
Found more useless whities then any other color/minority combined.
kidicarus13
06-18-2015, 22:43
http://news.yahoo.com/charleston-church-shooting-massacre-manhunt-live-103930165.html
"I've had to make statements like these too many times," Obama said. "Once again innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun."
Hold on, the first hill is a doozy if you're not ready for it.
Mas...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/18/obama-hits-gun-control-theme-in-reaction-to-church-shootings/
Perfectly stated
I can't speak for anyone else... But as a white conservative I'll continue to treat everyone I come into contact with as I'd like to be treated. If they happen to prove they don't deserve my respect it won't be because of their skin color.
<MADDOG>
06-19-2015, 04:23
Just as a perspective; I have my TV antennae pointed at Columbia; and the local media is reporting this as a tragedy and nothing more. Long story short, blacks and whites are attending prayers and churches; together. No rioting, no hate.
Just as a perspective; I have my TV antennae pointed at Columbia; and the local media is reporting this as a tragedy and nothing more. Long story short, blacks and whites are attending prayers and churches; together. No rioting, no hate.
Excellent observation, that's the way it should be, unite and mourn.
Big John
06-19-2015, 06:00
That' s total BS. Race relations have been a lot worse in this countries past, especially in that area. Shooting up a church ( or anything for that matter ) is never excusable. Prayers to the victims families.Mmm-hmmm... My comment had nothing to do with a comparison of the past. Nor did it excuse his behavior.
I'm guessing there are many out there with similar feelings to the shooter. While not acting out in this cowardly way, there are many that are at their wit's end trying to deal with the upside down world we live in. They are tired of being persecuted daily for being the great oppressor while the horrifying "knock out" thing is called a "game".
While race relations were nowhere near perfect... We were doing "ok" until someone decided to fundamentally change this country.
Great-Kazoo
06-19-2015, 07:18
The roommate should be arrested as an accomplice. He had knowledge of said issues yet failed to act, just as the psychiatrist who treated Holmes. They both knew "something" was wrong, yet decided to sit on the sidelines.
Zundfolge
06-19-2015, 08:21
The roommate should be arrested as an accomplice. He had knowledge of said issues yet failed to act, just as the psychiatrist who treated Holmes. They both knew "something" was wrong, yet decided to sit on the sidelines.
I'd argue that the roommate is worse than the shrink because the roommate has said he was planning this for 6 months so it sounds like he knew in detail what he was going to do whereas Holmes' shrink only knew his client was a nutter that was "likely" to do "something".
I'd also argue that the church shooter's father should go down too ... its pretty obvious he gave a gun to a "prohibited person" knowing his son was unable to legally posses a firearm.
Rucker61
06-19-2015, 08:48
I'd argue that the roommate is worse than the shrink because the roommate has said he was planning this for 6 months so it sounds like he knew in detail what he was going to do whereas Holmes' shrink only knew his client was a nutter that was "likely" to do "something".
What does "planning something" actually mean? How many teenage and early twentysomething males talk sh*t about all kinds of plans, none of which ever come to fruition? The shooter only had the gun for two months, right, so any plans before that were definitely smoke blowing. The roommate is definitely going to feel guilty forever, though.
I'd also argue that the church shooter's father should go down too ... its pretty obvious he gave a gun to a "prohibited person" knowing his son was unable to legally posses a firearm.
Yes indeed, under three felony indictments and a known drug user. I really don't get the father. If my 21 year old son was under three felony indictments and using hard drugs, he's not getting anything but drug addiction treatment or the boot, depending upon his attitude.
lostcolorado
06-19-2015, 08:50
"the weapon -- came in April, when Roof bought a .45-caliber handgun at a Charleston gun store, the two law enforcement officials told Perez and Bruer from CNN, the first network to report this development. His grandfather says that Roof was given "birthday money" and that the family didn't know what Roof did with it."
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/index.html
I'd also argue that the church shooter's father should go down too ... its pretty obvious he gave a gun to a "prohibited person" knowing his son was unable to legally posses a firearm.
Rucker61
06-19-2015, 09:04
"the weapon -- came in April, when Roof bought a .45-caliber handgun at a Charleston gun store, the two law enforcement officials told Perez and Bruer from CNN, the first network to report this development. His grandfather says that Roof was given "birthday money" and that the family didn't know what Roof did with it."
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/index.html
So NICS doesn't catch indictments, just convictions?
"the weapon -- came in April, when Roof bought a .45-caliber handgun at a Charleston gun store, the two law enforcement officials told Perez and Bruer from CNN, the first network to report this development. His grandfather says that Roof was given "birthday money" and that the family didn't know what Roof did with it."
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/index.html
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/06/friend-dylann-storm-roof-took-gun-from-his-mom-she-didnt-trust-him-with-it-video/
Justin Meek, a friend of Charleston shooter Dylann Storm Roof, spoke with Greta Van Susteren tonight. He told Greta that Dyllan took the gun from his mother that he used in the mass murder. He said Dyllan’s mom didn’t trust him with it so she took it away.
Justin said he saw Dylann on Tuesday.
“He said that he took it from his mom. And he told me his mom didn’t know he had the gun… Yeah, it was his gun but his mom took it from Dylann.
Dylann’s father reportedly gave the gun to his son for a birthday present.
*** Dylann did have failed a background check for a gun purchase!
But his father bought him the gun anyway!
So should his father be arrested?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcDF_oQ_kt4
You mentioned what the Blacks and Dems will do, what will the Conservatives and Whites do to help the situation ?
Griff
Good Article:
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/06/19/the-conversation-about-race-is-a-futile-pipe-dream/
There may have been a time when a discussion about racial issues was possible, but that window of opportunity quickly passed when the professional left decided to double down on division with a professional community organizer.
The professionally black have a vested ideological and financial interest in the retention of grievance. No amount of discussion will overcome or quench the institutional need to be perpetually aggrieved.
Good Article:
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/06/19/the-conversation-about-race-is-a-futile-pipe-dream/
This article is spot-on.
Great-Kazoo
06-19-2015, 13:58
What does "planning something" actually mean? How many teenage and early twentysomething males talk sh*t about all kinds of plans, none of which ever come to fruition? The shooter only had the gun for two months, right, so any plans before that were definitely smoke blowing. The roommate is definitely going to feel guilty forever, though.
Yes indeed, under three felony indictments and a known drug user. I really don't get the father. If my 21 year old son was under three felony indictments and using hard drugs, he's not getting anything but drug addiction treatment or the boot, depending upon his attitude.
2 words............. Klebold & Harris
Rucker61
06-19-2015, 14:11
So any twenty year old saying "I'm planning something big" or otherwise talking shit with his pals and roommates should be considered a threat and treated as one?
So any twenty year old saying "I'm planning something big" or otherwise talking shit with his pals and roommates should be considered a threat and treated as one?
When that shit talking is about murdering people, it might be a good idea to take it seriously.
If the roommate says he was planning this for six months and he has only had the gun for two months. Sounds like having a gun was not a factor in his decision to kill all these people. Would be interesting to know what the roommate knew were his specific plans before having a gun.
I know I'm out in a limb here, but maybe guns are not evil my themselves and not capable of corrupting innocent minds. It could happen!!
DenverGP
06-19-2015, 16:48
The popular narrative now is this mass shootings is a mental health issue. But I don't see that to be true. I think this shooting (and many others) is the result of a divided nation.
We are politically divided, with each side being completely unwilling to work and compromise with the other.
We are racially divided. The Obama administration has made this so much worse by sharply polarizing every issue that involves race. And be the administration being so overly pro-black and anti-white, it's caused many whites to feel like their race/country/way of life is under attack.
We are culturally divided. In most countries, immigrants are expected to merge into the countries culture. Thats why the US was called the Melting Pot. But now, many immigrants come in, and expect the country to adapt to and accept their culture, never truly becoming part of the US. Mexican immigrants who see the US Flag as an insult but want us to celebrate mexican holidays, etc. And the Obama administration's amnesty actions will make the country even more divided.
The popular narrative now is this mass shootings is a mental health issue. But I don't see that to be true. I think this shooting (and many others) is the result of a divided nation.
We are politically divided, with each side being completely unwilling to work and compromise with the other.
We are racially divided. The Obama administration has made this so much worse by sharply polarizing every issue that involves race. And be the administration being so overly pro-black and anti-white, it's caused many whites to feel like their race/country/way of life is under attack.
We are culturally divided. In most countries, immigrants are expected to merge into the countries culture. Thats why the US was called the Melting Pot. But now, many immigrants come in, and expect the country to adapt to and accept their culture, never truly becoming part of the US. Mexican immigrants who see the US Flag as an insult but want us to celebrate mexican holidays, etc. And the Obama administration's amnesty actions will make the country even more divided.
You can't be serious.
You seriously rate political division as a better excuse to murder people than mental disorder? Then, without missing a beat, you blame Obama?
I'm trying not to sound dramatic, but any white person who fears that their way of life is under attack from a racial standpoint, they suffer from a serious case of foolishness and cowardice.
Further, any person who could/would go out and kill a random person as a result of anything Obama, or his administration has done, fits the bill for someone with a mental disorder.
Big John
06-19-2015, 17:42
The popular narrative now is this mass shootings is a mental health issue. But I don't see that to be true. I think this shooting (and many others) is the result of a divided nation.
We are politically divided, with each side being completely unwilling to work and compromise with the other.
We are racially divided. The Obama administration has made this so much worse by sharply polarizing every issue that involves race. And be the administration being so overly pro-black and anti-white, it's caused many whites to feel like their race/country/way of life is under attack.
We are culturally divided. In most countries, immigrants are expected to merge into the countries culture. Thats why the US was called the Melting Pot. But now, many immigrants come in, and expect the country to adapt to and accept their culture, never truly becoming part of the US. Mexican immigrants who see the US Flag as an insult but want us to celebrate mexican holidays, etc. And the Obama administration's amnesty actions will make the country even more divided.I concur...[rockon]
Big John
06-19-2015, 18:29
The one time in quite a while I tune in to see what Bill O'Reilly has to say. What a mistake that was. He went full retard and said that a gun registry would solve gun violence and that it would be for the greater good.
What a complete douche bag.
The one time in quite a while I tune in to see what Bill O'Reilly has to say. What a mistake that was. He went full retard and said that a gun registry would solve gun violence and that it would be for the greater good.
What a complete douche bag.
O'Reilly, Bill?
Ole Bill has been showing his true colors for a while now.
<MADDOG>
06-19-2015, 18:49
You can't be serious.
You seriously rate political division as a better excuse to murder people than mental disorder? Then, without missing a beat, you blame Obama?
I'm trying not to sound dramatic, but any white person who fears that their way of life is under attack from a racial standpoint, they suffer from a serious case of foolishness and cowardice.
Further, any person who could/would go out and kill a random person as a result of anything Obama, or his administration has done, fits the bill for someone with a mental disorder.
+1 Irving.
This racial divide bullshit is getting tiring. Assholes are assholes; and from my observations over the past 9 months here, there are far, far, more white trash, racist red-necks here then there are racist blacks in the ole' south. Hell, I've been through two "safety checkpoints" here, both while CC'ng. The black officers conducting these checkpoints must have missed the "racial divide" that the above theory is based on, because while they could have been total pricks (like some of the white officers I have had the displeasure of meeting), were instead the most professional and personable officers I have ever met..
Anyway; this nut, like the others, is a f'n loonie. And like so many other loonies; he too was on medication from what I see reported. But as always, the gun will be blamed; unlike the plane that decided to nose-dive into the alps a couple of months ago...
Nah, racism is far more inflammatory to keep the masses "divided".
hurley842002
06-19-2015, 19:14
IBTL
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Agree with Irving. Jeez. I grew up in the South.
An ass that committed mass murder is arrested and will get a needle for his crime. In the meantime
race baiting "reverends", Presidents and media can just ignore this also..
59119
DenverGP
06-19-2015, 20:04
You can't be serious.
You seriously rate political division as a better excuse to murder people than mental disorder? Then, without missing a beat, you blame Obama?
Never said it was an excuse for murder. But it helps push and give reason for those who are already a little mentally unbalanced.
I definitely believe that the increasing division is going to lead to more and more death.
I feel like the cross-section between mentally unstable murderers, and politically motivated, mentally unstable murderers is, thankfully, minute.
You can't be serious.
You seriously rate political division as a better excuse to murder people than mental disorder? Then, without missing a beat, you blame Obama?
I'm trying not to sound dramatic, but any white person who fears that their way of life is under attack from a racial standpoint, they suffer from a serious case of foolishness and cowardice.
Further, any person who could/would go out and kill a random person as a result of anything Obama, or his administration has done, fits the bill for someone with a mental disorder.
Well put buddy as usual.
SideShow Bob
06-19-2015, 22:37
And there are already cries to the potus for more gun control in the interviews of survivors.
The one time in quite a while I tune in to see what Bill O'Reilly has to say. What a mistake that was. He went full retard and said that a gun registry would solve gun violence and that it would be for the greater good.
What a complete douche bag.
I've always taken much of what he says with a grain of salt and some suspicion. He provides a good forum/platform for debate, but his views on minimum wage, UBGC, and now this registry BS he's spewing today really dampens my desire to keep watching.
Yes, he's a complete douche tonight for that one.
The people of Charleston are to be commended for their compassion and the way they're dealing with this tragedy as a community. The politicians and media pundits should be ashamed of the way they're promoting their agendas, many doing so before the bodies are cold. Primarily the libs, but it's occurring on all sides.
Big John
06-20-2015, 04:21
Turns out this is not Bill's first time spewing this nonsense. This is from 2 years ago and is pretty much a carbon copy of last night's conversation.
https://youtu.be/DZGHSnSmvyg
BPTactical
06-20-2015, 07:25
An ass that committed mass murder is arrested and will get a needle for his crime. In the meantime
race baiting "reverends", Presidents and media can just ignore this also..
59119
Now don't going interjecting facts............
Bailey Guns
06-20-2015, 07:26
The families of the victims are showing a remarkable amount of compassion while offering their forgiveness to the beast who killed their friends and family. Far cry from the reactions in Baltimore and Ferguson.
"If MY PEOPLE, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."
"If MY PEOPLE, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."
2 Chronicles 7:14
What does race mean? Is it defined by genetics? How your parents defined their ethnic heritage? I can't think of a single good thing that came from any group running around spouting off how pure they were racially and how they are defending their racial heritage.
I am not a scientist, however, I relatively certain that no human being is racially pure. I would guess that for your own health, having at least a little bit of genetic diversity is a good thing.
I need to stop checking that box on the forms when agencies ask.
I won't get into a debate when we all agree that this was a horrible event. As far as debating others on social media, it's a "fools errand"
I guess I care more about the gun rights implications than anything else.
I not likely to post about race issues but I will speak up when someone lies about gun crime or offers emotional platitude/non-solution. For example, if someone were to post we need a national gun registry I would speak up on that and mention how it won't stop tragedies like this from happening.
YMMV.
You mentioned what the Blacks and Dems will do, what will the Conservatives and Whites do to help the situation ?
Griff
That's one of the horrible things that is happening that I was trying to illustrate... We no longer see each other as humans but are allowing identity politics to dominate. Liberals are putting people in boxes and telling us we can/can't do. So Conservatives can't do anything because we are all guilty. I'm sure you've heard Donald Trump and Fox News were responsible, right?
Now I don't agree with any of that one bit, but that is the narrative. I would argue that is one goal of identity politics is to marginalize people and prevent them from making a difference even when it matters most in horrible things like this.
What people are actually doing is offering to protect black churches. There's been talk of getting CCW and helping folks train. And I see we're having the same discussion about gun free zones which I hope will open up some minds.
But I think the best thing we can do as a group of Conservatives is reiterate: Every American has the right to protect himself, his family, and his community. Period. If we can help people of any/all backgrounds get there, great, let's do that.
McDonald v Shitcago was about that and it's one of reasons, in spite of some failures, I am happy to be an NRA member (NRA's founding is also often overlooked).
Zundfolge
06-20-2015, 12:25
"If MY PEOPLE, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."
What does race mean? Is it defined by genetics? How your parents defined their ethnic heritage? I can't think of a single good thing that came from any group running around spouting off how pure they were racially and how they are defending their racial heritage.
I don't believe that verse has anything to do with race (maybe I'm misinterpreting your response but as you quoted the verse it seems you're using it as a jumping off point).
The "my people, which are called by my name" there means Christians, not any particular race.
One of the huge ironies lately is the comparison of "trans-genderism" and "trans-racialism" and how the left seems to think Gender is an artificial social construct but apparently race isn't.
I'd argue that race is much more an artificial social construct than gender.
One of the arguments the shooter brought up in his manefesto is that you can breed horses and donkeys together to make mules (as some sort of proof of the evils of racial interbreeding?). He misses the point that mules can't reproduce on their own because they are the product of two separate breeds breeding ... however with people of different races breeding those people are still able to breed on their own. THIS is proof that we're all indeed members of the SAME breed (aka race).
Once upon a time in America the Irish were seen as a separate race from whites and interbreeding with them was discouraged. Now the Irish are considered "white". Artificial social construct.
I wish more people would abandon mindless group-think and identity politics and realize that Ayn Rand was absolutely right when she said; "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
You mentioned what the Blacks and Dems will do, what will the Conservatives and Whites do to help the situation ?
Griff
Nothing whites nor conservatives can do until the narrative is changed ...right now the narrative is that we're the problem and the cause and the only "solution" to the conservative white problem is a "final solution".
The context of the verse was after the dedication of the Temple by Solomon in the Old Testament. The quote was directed at the Jewish people and was meant as a warning to turn toward God.
I agree that race is an abstract, social construct and means what people say it means. Most uses of the term race begin with the assumption that All men are NOT created equal. I believe the reliance upon race in any argument runs counter to the founding of this country and the principals most of us here support.
Scanker19
06-20-2015, 13:46
I think that the word "race" is a social construct, but the what race is isn't. We use race as more of a breed. Distinct, biological differences. I can't stop being mexican, nor can my buddy stop being black, nor can a white person stop being white, biologically speaking that is.
However what we can change is our ethnicity. Ethnicity is sometimes used as a synonym for culture. While I am mexican, I am not mexican, I do not identify as mexican. So what do people duge you on? Depends on the person. True racists will hate any other race for arbitrary reasons with no insight to that person's true intentions. That's the easiest thing to do. That's why I like racists, they are open, honest, and they let me know right away that they are complete fucking morons.
But, I think that people judge more on ethnicity, than race, though those two can blend together for most people of color. It's in this way that you can see white people hating other white people based on their ethnicity. The irish, for example. or Russians and Ukrainians.
Identity, ethnicity, what you wear on the outside and allow people to see, what you let people know about you is what will be judged more and hated. If we some how ended racism, hate based on color of skin, we would still have hate based on ethnicity, or identity. People will hate you for your brown hair, or eye color, or the fact you like the Dallas Cowboys, or drive a Ford. People love to hate, we just learn to suppress it in public. One can change their ethnicity, just as much as they can change their gender. However they cannot change their race, or sex, at least on a biological level.
One last thing. The most powerful hate there is? Traitors. Race traitors, or hate from within your own "group." That hate that has coined the term "Uncle Tom" or "Wigger" or "Wexican." More mexicans hate me because "I'm not mexican." Because I don't add accents in the middle of my american sentence. Because I chose to learn Russian rather than Spanish.
Rucker61
06-20-2015, 14:08
I think that the word "race" is a social construct, but the what race is isn't. We use race as more of a breed. Distinct, biological differences. I can't stop being mexican, nor can my buddy stop being black, nor can a white person stop being white, biologically speaking that is.
However what we can change is our ethnicity. Ethnicity is sometimes used as a synonym for culture. While I am mexican, I am not mexican, I do not identify as mexican. So what do people duge you on? Depends on the person. True racists will hate any other race for arbitrary reasons with no insight to that person's true intentions. That's the easiest thing to do. That's why I like racists, they are open, honest, and they let me know right away that they are complete fucking morons.
But, I think that people judge more on ethnicity, than race, though those two can blend together for most people of color. It's in this way that you can see white people hating other white people based on their ethnicity. The irish, for example. or Russians and Ukrainians.
Identity, ethnicity, what you wear on the outside and allow people to see, what you let people know about you is what will be judged more and hated. If we some how ended racism, hate based on color of skin, we would still have hate based on ethnicity, or identity. People will hate you for your brown hair, or eye color, or the fact you like the Dallas Cowboys, or drive a Ford. People love to hate, we just learn to suppress it in public. One can change their ethnicity, just as much as they can change their gender. However they cannot change their race, or sex, at least on a biological level.
One last thing. The most powerful hate there is? Traitors. Race traitors, or hate from within your own "group." That hate that has coined the term "Uncle Tom" or "Wigger" or "Wexican." More mexicans hate me because "I'm not mexican." Because I don't add accents in the middle of my american sentence. Because I chose to learn Russian rather than Spanish.
I like the cut of your jib, mister.
Basically everyone on all sides and perspectives attempt to lay blame on SOME THING for causing tragedies such as these as apposed to flawed human beings.
We all want things in the world to be OUR way. I know I do.
Most of us learn to deal with the disappointment that we are not able to have things the way we want them to be. We do the best we can with the circumstances and we make do with our little victories of personal desire.
Some people seek power to make things different; make things more the way they would like them to be. It seems that the more frustrated people become when they don't get things their own way, the more likely they are going to lash out and attack those who are most different from them. Because it is those who are most different from me that are the ones who least want me to get what I want. At least it seems that way to some people.
In reality, most people don't think much about what other people want unless it conflicts with what they want.
After all, what is life about, if it isn't about getting what I want?
When you die, which you will do, what will you have lived for? What is the purpose of your life?
Please do not answer that question here. This is a gun board, not a philosophy class. [Coffee]
BPTactical
06-20-2015, 16:56
Never let a crisis go to waste
JohnnyDrama
06-20-2015, 19:52
Condolences to all those who lost loved ones.
I've been busy and have only had time to take occasional brief glances at the events of the last couple of days and haven't had a chance to comment. Probably for the better. Anyway, as I out and about I was reflecting on how various political figures, ie, BHO and Hillary, have commented on the need for a talk about gun control as well as other more "conservative" figureheads (mostly falling to media baiting and putting their foot in their mouth) have given way to headlines of how gun control has failed to take off as a media topic/event. For some reason this resonated with my how while the MSM wants to discuss gun control, we are discussing social issues. My little brain went further down the rabbit hole to the point where I realized that modern liberalism and racism, as we know it today, have roots in 19th century Europe, especially Victorian Britain. Of course how gun control and liberalism became married I have no idea. Nor do I intend to point fingers at liberals or Victorian Brits. Just sayin'.
GunsRBadMMMMKay
06-20-2015, 20:16
When you die, which you will do, what will you have lived for? What is the purpose of your life?
Please do not answer that question here. This is a gun board, not a philosophy class. [Coffee]
Well that kills my input...........
Well that kills my input...........
Did it die or was it killed?
I guess I care more about the gun rights implications than anything else.
I not likely to post about race issues but I will speak up when someone lies about gun crime or offers emotional platitude/non-solution. For example, if someone were to post we need a national gun registry I would speak up on that and mention how it won't stop tragedies like this from happening.
YMMV.
I've all but removed myself from any social media because I started to no longer care about:
1. What someone had for breakfast
2. The political views of people I hardly know
3. Selfies
My wife on the other hand......
I've all but removed myself from any social media because I started to no longer care about:
1. What someone had for breakfast
2. The political views of people I hardly know
3. Selfies
My wife on the other hand......
You are missing some good selfies. Some of them... [ROFL1]
2 becomes hard for me as well because a certain ideology will fill that vacuum. I recall in 2000 when everyone said "how could Bush have been elected because everyone I know voted for Gore." Well, if most people with loud voices voted for Gore is skews the sample.
Kind of like "everyone supports reasonable gun control." That is believed because the echo chamber constantly reinforces it.
And no, most of the younger folks won't get out in real life and have these conversations for balance. That is sad.
Delfuego
06-22-2015, 10:54
I like to stay away from the various political debates on our forum, but want to briefly jump in and play Devil's Advocate. I assume nobody on here supports addition gun control, "commonsense" or otherwise.
However, I have a question. How do we stop these idiots doing this same horrible things over and over again? It seems like it is becoming a more popular for a deranged loser to go on a murderous rampage of some sort. I have learned that there are people that idolize and want to emulate the Columbine losers and others like them. Point in fact, there were the 2 Australian twin girls that flew all the way to Denver just to attempt suicide at the Cherry Creek shooting range. I do realize that if guns were banned, there would be more mass-stabbings, homemade bomb attacks or something other terrible act. But the question remain what is wrong with these people? How can they be stopped or dissuaded? Ending "Gun Free Zones" and/or armed citizens does not solve or address the root problem, they only stop the psycho after their rampage has begun. These type of acts have to stop in our country.
If all you have to add is macho BS, please just keep it to yourself. Additionally, we all know that capital punishment, no matter how just, does not work and isn't really a deterrent.
I like to stay away from the various political debates on our forum, but want to briefly jump in and play Devil's Advocate. I assume nobody on here supports addition gun control, "commonsense" or otherwise.
However, I have a question. How do we stop these idiots doing this same horrible things over and over again? It seems like it is becoming a more popular for a deranged loser to go on a murderous rampage of some sort. I have learned that there are people that idolize and want to emulate the Columbine losers and others like them. Point in fact, there were the 2 Australian twin girls that flew all the way to Denver just to attempt suicide at the Cherry Creek shooting range. I do realize that if guns were banned, there would be more mass-stabbings, homemade bomb attacks or something other terrible act. But the question remain what is wrong with these people? How can they be stopped or dissuaded? Ending "Gun Free Zones" and/or armed citizens does not solve or address the root problem, they only stop the psycho after their rampage has begun. These type of acts have to stop in our country.
If all you have to add is macho BS, please just keep it to yourself. Additionally, we all know that capital punishment, no matter how just, does not work and isn't really a deterrent.
You're assuming there is an answer.
There always have been, and there always will be a percentage of society that is evil/crazy.
This percentage is not ever going to cease to exist.
Since society decided to medicate them instead of incarcerate them, we have to interact with more of them on a daily basis.
As long as they continue to be allowed to live freely, we will continue to have problems with them.
sellersm
06-22-2015, 11:32
I like to stay away from the various political debates on our forum, but want to briefly jump in and play Devil's Advocate. I assume nobody on here supports addition gun control, "commonsense" or otherwise.
However, I have a question. How do we stop these idiots doing this same horrible things over and over again? It seems like it is becoming a more popular for a deranged loser to go on a murderous rampage of some sort. I have learned that there are people that idolize and want to emulate the Columbine losers and others like them. Point in fact, there were the 2 Australian twin girls that flew all the way to Denver just to attempt suicide at the Cherry Creek shooting range. I do realize that if guns were banned, there would be more mass-stabbings, homemade bomb attacks or something other terrible act. But the question remain what is wrong with these people? How can they be stopped or dissuaded? Ending "Gun Free Zones" and/or armed citizens does not solve or address the root problem, they only stop the psycho after their rampage has begun. These type of acts have to stop in our country.
<snip>Additionally, we all know that capital punishment, no matter how just, does not work and isn't really a deterrent.
Well, the answer to your first question/point is this: people are evil. If you know how to deal with the core evil in people, you'll have your answer.
Your last comment needs supporting evidence, please. I don't believe that true "capital punishment", administered as it should be, is ineffective at all.
For me, this issue has been around since Cain killed Abel. Same root issue then is around today. Same solution will take care of it...
theGinsue
06-22-2015, 11:43
How do we stop these idiots doing this same horrible things over and over again? It seems like it is becoming a more popular for a deranged loser to go on a murderous rampage of some sort.
How do we stop people from doing these sorts of things? There is only 1 way to do that and that is to remove EVERY freedom from every individual. Lock everyone down in a Supermax type of establishment. Anything short of that and you will fail. It sounds like I'm being ridiculous, but I am not.
As far as the popularity of deranged losers going on murderous rampages, yes, it does feel that way. People are getting crazier, getting more fed up with events and their circumstances, etc. I offer the following as proof of what we (Pro 2A folks) often say, if you take away the guns without taking away the evil in the hearts of mankind, man will simply find another tool to wreak their havoc:
(This kinda floats in the face of POTUS Obama's comments that these sorts of things don't occur in other "developed countries")
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/33-dead-130-injured-china-knife-wielding-spree-n41966
33 Dead, 130 Injured in China Knife-Wielding Spree
A group of knife-wielding men attacked a train station in southwestern China on Saturday, killing at least 29 people and injuring more than 130 others in what Chinese officials called a terrorist strike, the official Xinhua News Agency said.
Four of the attackers were also shot dead and only one was captured alive after the mayhem, which broke out about 9 p.m. (8 a.m. ET) at the Kunming Railway Station in the capital of southwest China's Yunnan Province.
The Kunming government said the "serious violent terrorist attack was planned and organized by Xinjiang separatist forces," Xinhua reported.
Ethnic Turkish Uighur separatists have been sporadically fighting for an independent state in Xinjiang, in northwestern China, home to about 10 million Uighur, who are predominantly Muslim. More than 100 people have been killed in protests in Xinjiang in the past year.
Yang Haifei, a resident of Yunnan, told Xinhua that he was attacked and sustained injuries on his chest and back.
Yang said he was buying a ticket when he saw a group rush into the station, most of them dressed in black, and started stabbing people.
"I saw a person come straight at me with a long knife, and I ran away with everyone," he said, adding that people who were slower were severely injured.
"They just fell on the ground," he added.
Yunnan province Vice Gov. Gao Feng held an emergency meeting at No. 1 People's Hospital, where the injured are being rushed, and said hospitals have received 162 people.
State-run Yunnan News said that the men were wearing uniforms when they stormed the railway station and that gunshots were heard after police arrived.
An ass that committed mass murder is arrested and will get a needle for his crime. In the meantime
race baiting "reverends", Presidents and media can just ignore this also..
59119
I'm having a little trouble reconciling this chart with the data, perhaps I'm missing something...
From the URL quoted at the bottom of the chart: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex _of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls
59143
I see this 2.5k whites killed by whites and 2.2k blacks killed by blacks.
Anyone else have a different take?
O2
Kraven251
06-22-2015, 12:15
I could not agree more. When you allow machines to raise your family, do not be surprised when you raise machines.
Based on current studies, Empathy, Narcissism, and sociopathy are on a very strong incidence. As is aspergers spectrum disorders (which don't tend to be violent unless coupled with something else)
Here is why:
Empathy is learned as a child and teen through face to face interactions with people. If you do something they don't like, you see their facial expression, you see the reaction, you see the long term damage. Generally you stayed around the same group of people. That used to be part of our development. If a schoolmate had a death in their family you didn't say "How was your mom last night, oh that's right, she's dead LAWL". No, your fellow schoolmates would punish you and you'd have to be around those same kids for a long, long time.
Now, the vast majority of child communications is through electronic mediums. Facebook, twitter, snapchat, text messages, in-game chat, etc. Not only does our youth have bad skills at face to face socializing, they are losing the empathetic connection to it. More of them royally suck at socializing. They get isolated, alone. Young children are raised by television more than in a social environment so they also are disassociated from learning the personal empathetic connection. They can be playing COD at the age of 9 and the quality of the above line in chat isn't uncommon. Who gives a shit, they'll never see that person or that group of peers again, right?
THEN, inside worlds like Facebook, pinterest, twitter, etc., each person is the "king" of their world. People seem to care what they do. They rarely get negative feedback. If you walked up to a random kid in school and said "I HAD POTATOES LAST NIGHT YUM YUM" you would face the social ramifications of it beyond the day you graduated. Yelling BLOCK wouldn't stop the teasing. This ego-egocentric. online focus, disassociated with empathy and negative ramifications is the root cause. Schools contribute too - it doesn't matter if you win, we won't even keep track of points! You're all a winner!
This is the net result, and it goes a few ways.
Upon "growing up" the latest generation has much-higher expectations than those previously. Why, they're just going to walk into a 80,000 a year job, buy a boat, and buy a hot wife. They literally believe this. The narcissists, of which there are many, are faced with painful realizations for which they are woefully unprepared, lacking any face-to-face socializing skills as an outlet, they tend towards depression and suicide when life doesn't meet what they've been raised to expect.
The sociopaths, which currently constitute as much as 4-6% of our population, can tend towards mass violence coupled with their suicide.
How do you fix this? On the individual level, it is critical that you make sure your kid has a LOT of face to face socialization with kids, as opposed to disassociated socialization through electronic mediums. (That kind of socializing is perfectly okay, so long as they have a lot of experience and frequent F2F outside of school).
On the governmental level? Good f'n luck.
Delfuego
06-22-2015, 12:39
Capital punishment in the US doesn't work, or work well. It cost far more to put someone to death, than to incarcerate for life, or many lifetimes for that matter. This is the only reason that I don't support capital punishment; the cost. Also capital punishment doesn't prevent anything. It is an afterthought and about exacting appropriate justice.
Classifying people or acts as Evil/Good is to hyperbolic for me. I do not believe people are inherently evil, at least that has not been true in my experience.
Delfuego
06-22-2015, 12:59
Upon "growing up" the latest generation has much-higher expectations than those previously. Why, they're just going to walk into a 80,000 a year job, buy a boat, and buy a hot wife. They literally believe this. The narcissists, of which there are many, are faced with painful realizations for which they are woefully unprepared, lacking any face-to-face socializing skills as an outlet, they tend towards depression and suicide when life doesn't meet what they've been raised to expect.I very much agree with this.
I also have a belief that life in modern society is too easy. Kids are bored and want to breakup their boring lives by doing terrible things to gain some type of accomplishment and satisfaction. Bear with me here...
For countless generations people have struggled with the basic task of putting a room over their family's head and food in their mouths. We now live in a time where people struggle more with what size TV they "need" or what fancy car they have to own. Children now don't have these basic issue to contend with. They sit around waiting for something grand to happen to them and lift them up to some sort of elevated status. I think this is true with people who run off to join ISIS or similar groups/cults. These kids grow up in suburbs, whether here or in Europe and have a pretty easy life compared to generations past. They play video game and think shooting someone is easy, or even fun. They are bored and don't want join the rat race, so they "enlist" for excitement, or whatever they think it will be. I witnessed this happen to some degree with kids knew joining the skinheads or some other BS group and ending up dead or worse.
I really shouldn't say "kids", because more and more it is men and women of different ages and backgrounds that are doing these terrible things. It is just more often than not they are young.
A buddy just sent this to me and I figured it was appropriate.
59146
I very much agree with this.
I also have a belief that life in modern society is too easy. Kids are bored and want to breakup their boring lives by doing terrible things to gain some type of accomplishment and satisfaction. Bear with me here...
For countless generations people have struggled with the basic task of putting a room over their family's head and food in their mouths. We now live in a time where people struggle more with what size TV they "need" or what fancy car they have to own. Children now don't have these basic issue to contend with. They sit around waiting for something grand to happen to them and lift them up to some sort of elevated status. I think this is true with people who run off to join ISIS or similar groups/cults. These kids grow up in suburbs, whether here or in Europe and have a pretty easy life compared to generations past. They play video game and think shooting someone is easy, or even fun. They are bored and don't want join the rat race, so they "enlist" for excitement, or whatever they think it will be. I witnessed this happen to some degree with kids knew joining the skinheads or some other BS group and ending up dead or worse.
I really shouldn't say "kids", because more and more it is men and women of different ages and backgrounds that are doing these terrible things. It is just more often than not they are young.
Ever been to Africa, South America, the Middle East, Asia?
I do not believe 1st world problems are a cause of murderous inclination.
Rucker61
06-22-2015, 13:31
I'm having a little trouble reconciling this chart with the data, perhaps I'm missing something...
From the URL quoted at the bottom of the chart: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex _of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls
59143
I see this 2.5k whites killed by whites and 2.2k blacks killed by blacks.
Anyone else have a different take?
O2
That's my take.
sellersm
06-22-2015, 13:36
A buddy just sent this to me and I figured it was appropriate.
59146
Exactly.
sellersm
06-22-2015, 13:39
Capital punishment in the US doesn't work, or work well. It cost far more to put someone to death, than to incarcerate for life, or many lifetimes for that matter. This is the only reason that I don't support capital punishment; the cost. Also capital punishment doesn't prevent anything. It is an afterthought and about exacting appropriate justice.
Classifying people or acts as Evil/Good is to hyperbolic for me. I do not believe people are inherently evil, at least that has not been true in my experience.
Hmmm, a statement about capital punishment with nothing behind it. For the record, I do not advocate the current form of "capital punishment", which is why I put the phrase in quotes.
You state that "that has not been true in my experience", yet here you are, discussing an act that's clearly evil and you're asking the question of "why".
Delfuego
06-22-2015, 14:01
Hmmm, a statement about capital punishment with nothing behind it. For the record, I do not advocate the current form of "capital punishment", which is why I put the phrase in quotes. How many people have been condemn to death in Colorado? How many people have actually been executed? How much did it cost to put a single inmate to death? How much does it cost to incarcerate them for life. You do the math. This is not a term-paper and there will be no footnotes.
Well, the answer to your first question/point is this: people are evil. If you know how to deal with the core evil in people, you'll have your answer.Your statement made it sound like all people are evil. Call me an optimist, but...
colorider
06-22-2015, 14:43
The latest 3 shooters were fucking nuts. The parents, friends, family knew they were nuts. These type of people need to be put away in a mental facility before they can go out and do the public harm, not after. Maybe it's the system that won't allow them to be put away, maybe it's the friends/family that are too lazy to pursue it to the level of being put away in a loony bin. I don't have the facts or answers to that. All I know is that every one of them had been a fucking whackjob for a while and people accepted it as "oh, he just kept to himself and was odd" Well guess what, your precious little goofy snowflake is a menace to society and it's time to wake the fuck up and do something about it. Get his butt in a mental program that can deal with the fact he wants to kill. Don't just let it go, give him access to weapons, and think it will just work itself out. Parents/family / friends need to step up and get involved or this will continue to happen. And by get involved, I mean follow through and be aware of the signs that he is still a whacko and needs further help. Not just say "Well we had him to to a shrink and we think he is better. " Talk to your damn kids, pay attention, and don't get tunnel vision just because he is "your kid". He's a mental case and needs serious help, not help when it fits into the parents calendar. By then it is too late.
Rant over.
Well guess what, your precious little goofy snowflake is a menace to society and it's time to wake the fuck up and do something about it. Get his butt in a mental program that can deal with the fact he wants to kill. Don't just let it go, give him access to weapons, and think it will just work itself out. Parents/family / friends need to step up and get involved or this will continue to happen. And by get involved, I mean follow through and be aware of the signs that he is still a whacko and needs further help. Not just say "Well we had him to to a shrink and we think he is better. " Talk to your damn kids, pay attention, and don't get tunnel vision just because he is "your kid". He's a mental case and needs serious help, not help when it fits into the parents calendar. By then it is too late.
Rant over.
This is all well and good to say, but I guarantee that your perception of just how easy this is would change drastically if you ever had to go through it personally.
Great-Kazoo
06-22-2015, 16:21
How many people have been condemn to death in Colorado? How many people have actually been executed? How much did it cost to put a single inmate to death? How much does it cost to incarcerate them for life. You do the math. This is not a term-paper and there will be no footnotes.
Your statement made it sound like all people are evil. Call me an optimist, but...
It cost $$$ to put someone to death due to the appeals process. If a person was found BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, to be guilty. As we have numerous witness from Charleston & aurora. It's easy, POP behind the ear or line em up in front of a firing squad. Would I, could I, sure. I'll worry about sleeping down the road. To coin that saying from the anti-gun folks. IF it saves one life isn't it worth it. Absolutely YES.
Regarding all people are Evil. Not really. Just the Chosen Ones. They don't need a gun, just an unsuspecting populace. Better yet a populace who "doesn't want to believe" Something like this happened here. They choose to ignore, look the other way OR "Hope" someone else is getting involved. Then when the media is canvassing the area after the fact. Those same head in the sand folks tell them Oh yeah, You knew something was wrong. [facepalm] If not evil, just something that sets a person off. Case in point, if not the baseball player, it's the mother who drives in to the lake with all kids strapped in and ready to go.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/report--former-mlb-player-darryl-hamilton-dead-in-apparent-murder-suicide-165035530.html
The John Wayne Gacey, Ted Bundy's of the world. They prowl the earth looking for their next victim. ALWAYS aware how oblivious folks are, counting on their good nature , before they strike.
One of my client's aunt was killed by Bundy. The story she told was interesting & mesmerizing, to say the least. A blood relative of ours life was taken, by 3 felons who played the system til they had a chance to kill again. Oh yeah there's evil out there, you're just not aware or choose to ignore it.
sellersm
06-22-2015, 17:35
Good points foxtrot! Not pick nits about this topic, but I know folks in SRA units/field that would still, as I do, state that there are people who are just plain evil. There is much more to this life than what we appear to see...
Delfuego
06-22-2015, 17:59
These type of people need to be put away in a mental facility before they can go out and do the public harm, not after. Maybe it's the system that won't allow them to be put away, maybe it's the friends/family that are too lazy to pursue it to the level of being put away in a loony bin.They no longer exist. We closed the mental hospitals down and put the occupants on the street. It was called "Deinstitutionalization".
They no longer exist. We closed the mental hospitals down and put the occupants on the street. It was called "Deinstitutionalization".
Yep. Institutionalization is a slippery slope too. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (based on a real case) and all that.
Great-Kazoo
06-22-2015, 19:31
Yep. Institutionalization is a slippery slope too. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (based on a real case) and all that.
Willowbrook comes to mind. Unfortunately they mix the criminally insane with those who are "non-violent". So when they gates were open Everyone was back in circulation.
WE (Society) will never stop Evil or slow it down. Little Johny wants to take an axe handle to his step sister for yelling at their new puppy. Nothing will stop it. James Holmes told his therapist a few things that raised alarms, nothing happens. Everyone involved passed the buck. I Thought > he was handling it, sorry.
The Death Penalty won't stop any of these guys. Most of them don't care and they are likely to die of old age before they even get to the chair. The entry of DNA eveidence has changed the game. Too many people on "Death Row" have been vindicated to speed up the system. If anything the appeals process will be drawn out longer now. It's the judicial system we have and it's not gonna change. That being said if the mass murders continue at this rate without some sort of intervention, everything about 2A will end up changing.
Delfuego
06-23-2015, 07:51
That being said if the mass murders continue at this rate without some sort of intervention, everything about 2A will end up changing.This seems to be true. 2A is the "low hanging fruit" for politicians. No grand ideas, just the more of the usual. Even the staunchest republicans will get on board with gun control just to ensure their re-election.
Great-Kazoo
06-23-2015, 08:51
http://blackcommunitynews.com/charleston-the-unintended-consequences-of-a-racially-divisive-president/
Obama didn’t shoot the gun, but by creating an atmosphere of racial division, he certainly has contributed to the mindset that brings out the worst in racist of all colors.
Random acts of evil will always occur on this side of eternity. But when they do, leaders don’t lecture, they carry us through to the other side. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised about President Obama’s knee-jerk reaction to the Charleston shooting. The opportunity to exploit dead black bodies has never been above his pay grade. The truth of the matter is people of faith, particularly Christians, are being slaughtered at the hands of ISIS daily, yet Obama remains silent. Why? Because it doesn’t fit his agenda to “fundamentally transform” America.
Delfuego
06-23-2015, 08:58
Seems like the solution is to remove confederate flags. Glad someone thought of that, I thought it might be a lot more difficult.
Oh yeah and blame Obama (again); gotta be his fault.
No more Dukes of Hazzard...
The 'thought police' are shining their badges.
Seems like the solution is to remove confederate flags. Glad someone thought of that, I thought it might be a lot more difficult.
I feel the same way. Seems politicians are running to stand behind this movement to remove the flag, and everyone who doesn't like the flag is sooooo happy. Looks to me like the politicians are just looking for the easiest way out. The people who are happy about having the flag taken down and think something is actually being accomplished should be embarrassed with themselves.
The only short term goal is to placate the masses until the next event.
Bread and circuses.
Had a good discussion with what I thought was a level headed guy about the flag, turns out he is fucking stupid. People get some idea in their head and lose all sensibility.
Great-Kazoo
06-24-2015, 01:57
Had a good discussion with what I thought was a level headed guy about the flag, turns out he is fucking stupid. People get some idea in their head and lose all sensibility.
The same people who feel it's ok to burn the American Flag, under the protection of free speech. Are the same ones who want the Stars And Bars removed. . Freedom of speech vs Hate speech, go figure.
Zundfolge
06-24-2015, 09:02
I know some conservatives (particularly southern ones) will have a problem with removing the Confederate flag from public buildings and other official use ...and I must agree if we're being pushed into being PC by leftists, then I can see why some would oppose this.
But to be honest I've long wondered why Republicans didn't support the push to get rid of the Confederate flag sooner. The Confederacy is a creation of Democrats and racist Democrats (redundant, I know) have operated under it both before and after the Civil War.
A devotee of this flag murdered the first Republican president and frankly for most of us non-southern Republicans the only history many of us have with the flag is that our ancestors shot at and where shot at by people marching under this flag.
Again I don't like the idea of leftist PC pushing people to abandon a symbol of their heritage for dumb PC reasons, but in this case we're better off not defending the Confederacy (which is, after all, a defeated enemy of the United States, and when you read the Confederate Constitution you realize that their sole reason for existence was to keep slavery alive).
All that said, if you're going to remove the Confederate flag from government buildings, I don't want to see that goddamn gay rainbow "gaystapo" flag flying there either. The US flag, the state flag and the city flag ... that is ALL that should be flown in any official capacity.
Great-Kazoo
06-24-2015, 09:23
I know some conservatives (particularly southern ones) will have a problem with removing the Confederate flag from public buildings and other official use ...and I must agree if we're being pushed into being PC by leftists, then I can see why some would oppose this.
But to be honest I've long wondered why Republicans didn't support the push to get rid of the Confederate flag sooner. The Confederacy is a creation of Democrats and racist Democrats (redundant, I know) have operated under it both before and after the Civil War.
A devotee of this flag murdered the first Republican president and frankly for most of us non-southern Republicans the only history many of us have with the flag is that our ancestors shot at and where shot at by people marching under this flag.
Again I don't like the idea of leftist PC pushing people to abandon a symbol of their heritage for dumb PC reasons, but in this case we're better off not defending the Confederacy (which is, after all, a defeated enemy of the United States, and when you read the Confederate Constitution you realize that their sole reason for existence was to keep slavery alive).
All that said, if you're going to remove the Confederate flag from government buildings, I don't want to see that goddamn gay rainbow "gaystapo" flag flying there either. The US flag, the state flag and the city flag ... that is ALL that should be flown in any official capacity.
It doesn't work like that. Acceptance of those different than you is the goal. Accepting someone different than they are, ABSOLUTELY NOT, ONE DOES NOT ACCEPT RACISM & HOMOPHOBIA AS THE NORM. Granted ANYONE who does not agree TOTALLY with their way of thinking falls in to these categories.
The first one to say YOU'RE IN DENIAL wins. Tolerance & Diversity, young man , Tolerance & Diversity.
Zundfolge
06-24-2015, 09:53
Acceptance of those different than you is the goal.
No, that is not the goal. The goal is Cultural Marxism (via Critical Marxism aka Critical Theory). The goal is to destroy the dominant culture.
The Civil War wasn't a battle to abolish racism in the South. Concluding that the Confederate States and their representative banner only stood for racist ideals is lacking context. To suggest that the Union states were somehow not racist defies historical evidence.
How far does this war on symbolism go, even when the user expressing a direct connection misuses it? What if this nutjob had posed with the symbol of a crucifix? The Bible doesn't say that slavery should be abolished. So...all Christians are therefore racist?
Colossians 3:22-25
22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters,24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.
Colossians 4:1
Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.
I totally don't understand this mindset that attacking inanimate objects will somehow change human behavior. That includes guns, flags, books, etc.
The world is a strange place and you are showing a lack of understanding within it. Kazoo is spot on with this one. By your theory the South won and is still the "dominant culture". Ummmmm......wrong. Personally I like the flag but it means something different to me than those against it. I grew up in the south and to me it means rebellion not slavery, it means Southern common sense/hospitality not oppression. That is my take.... On a personal level. That being said, there is a darker side to it that does symbolize intolerance/bigotry and it what 'they' see when they look on that flag. The world is moving to acceptance of each other and you had better understand that or wind up in the not-so-funny papers like Roof did. He brought this on himself and lumped the rest of us that liked that flag into his racist BS.
No, that is not the goal. The goal is Cultural Marxism (via Critical Marxism aka Critical Theory). The goal is to destroy the dominant culture.
I know some conservatives (particularly southern ones) will have a problem with removing the Confederate flag from public buildings and other official use ...and I must agree if we're being pushed into being PC by leftists, then I can see why some would oppose this.
But to be honest I've long wondered why Republicans didn't support the push to get rid of the Confederate flag sooner. The Confederacy is a creation of Democrats and racist Democrats (redundant, I know) have operated under it both before and after the Civil War.
A devotee of this flag murdered the first Republican president and frankly for most of us non-southern Republicans the only history many of us have with the flag is that our ancestors shot at and where shot at by people marching under this flag.
Again I don't like the idea of leftist PC pushing people to abandon a symbol of their heritage for dumb PC reasons, but in this case we're better off not defending the Confederacy (which is, after all, a defeated enemy of the United States, and when you read the Confederate Constitution you realize that their sole reason for existence was to keep slavery alive).
All that said, if you're going to remove the Confederate flag from government buildings, I don't want to see that goddamn gay rainbow "gaystapo" flag flying there either. The US flag, the state flag and the city flag ... that is ALL that should be flown in any official capacity.
NOT TRUE
The victors get to write the history that is taught in school. It is universally skewed.
Fortunately, our freedom of speech allows the defeated to set the record straight - though it will not reach those who do not seek it.
Here's a good read for anyone who wants another perspective on the War of Northern Aggression [Poke] and how Lincoln set in motion the Nationalist system of government we have today - in opposition of the Federalist form our Constitution originally created.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Real-Lincoln-Abraham-Unnecessary/dp/0761526463
Most Americans consider Abraham Lincoln to be the greatest president in history. His legend as the Great Emancipator has grown to mythic proportions as hundreds of books, a national holiday, and a monument in Washington, D.C., extol his heroism and martyrdom. But what if most everything you knew about Lincoln were false? What if, instead of an American hero who sought to free the slaves, Lincoln were in fact a calculating politician who waged the bloodiest war in american history in order to build an empire that rivaled Great Britain's? In The Real Lincoln, author Thomas J. DiLorenzo uncovers a side of Lincoln not told in many history books and overshadowed by the immense Lincoln legend.
Through extensive research and meticulous documentation, DiLorenzo portrays the sixteenth president as a man who devoted his political career to revolutionizing the American form of government from one that was very limited in scope and highly decentralized—as the Founding Fathers intended—to a highly centralized, activist state. Standing in his way, however, was the South, with its independent states, its resistance to the national government, and its reliance on unfettered free trade. To accomplish his goals, Lincoln subverted the Constitution, trampled states' rights, and launched a devastating Civil War, whose wounds haunt us still. According to this provacative book, 600,000 American soldiers did not die for the honorable cause of ending slavery but for the dubious agenda of sacrificing the independence of the states to the supremacy of the federal government, which has been tightening its vise grip on our republic to this very day. You will discover a side of Lincoln that you were probably never taught in school—a side that calls into question the very myths that surround him and helps explain the true origins of a bloody, and perhaps, unnecessary war.
Here's a web page explaining the difference:
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/j/jala/2629860.0010.103/--abraham-lincoln-and-federalism?rgn=main;view=fulltext
I agree with this.
I totally don't understand this mindset that attacking inanimate objects will somehow change human behavior. That includes guns, flags, books, etc.
This too
Personally I like the flag but it means something different to me than those against it. I grew up in the south and to me it means rebellion not slavery, it means Southern common sense/hospitality not oppression.
And, especially this...
Here's a good read for anyone who wants another perspective on the War of Northern Aggression https://www.ar-15.co/images/smilies/poke.gif and how Lincoln set in motion the Nationalist system of government we have today - in opposition of the Federalist form our Constitution originally created.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Real-Lincoln-Abraham-Unnecessary/dp/0761526463
I think so many people look at the Civil War in terms of slavery, but there are other issues at play. Many of the men who fought under the Confederate Battle Flag could care less about slavery. They came to fight for their rights. The end result of this war and the subsequent years of federalism is that we all became slaves to the federal government.
When I talk to people about my views of the Civil War, they look at me like I'm nuts. I have some pretty strong views about this country's march to federalism and ultimately global socialism.
Finally...
I think taking down the Confederate Battle Flag means that we, those who still believe in the American experiment, have given up to Political Correctness, Globalism, and Totalitarian Rule.
The Civil War wasn't a battle to abolish racism in the South. Concluding that the Confederate States and their representative banner only stood for racist ideals is lacking context. To suggest that the Union states were somehow not racist defies historical evidence.
How far does this war on symbolism go, even when the user expressing a direct connection misuses it? What if this nutjob had posed with the symbol of a crucifix? The Bible doesn't say that slavery should be abolished. So...all Christians are therefore racist?
Colossians 3:22-25
Colossians 4:1
I totally don't understand this mindset that attacking inanimate objects will somehow change human behavior. That includes guns, flags, books, etc.
Respectfully, In my opinion this is not entirely correct. It's true that the Civil War wasn't directly about slavery but preservation of the Union. We have to ask ourselves "what was it about States Rights that brought the North and South to war." Slavery was the primary issue that tested this concept. Your average poor, enlisted, southerner on the battlefield could barely read let alone understand the issue of States rights. For the most part the average person today doesn't understand this concept so it's hard to believe they rallied under a legal cause they barely understood. Most southerners fought to preserve their way of life and to settle the continued animosity towards the North. Slavery was the cornerstone of the southern way of living. It was the driving force behind the south's entire economy.
I don't care who flies the flag. The 1st gives people that right. In my opinion though it shouldn't be flown over any type of state or federal ground due to the volatile nature and history of it. At it's core the flag is a symbol of a defeated cause. With respect for all those who fought and died it shouldn't be celebrated. The Mexican flag isn't flown over Texas so why should any confederate flag be flown over a southern state? I also wish people would stop calling it the Confederate flag. It's not. It's the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia.
KestrelBike
06-24-2015, 12:31
Slavery was the primary issue that tested this concept. Your average poor, enlisted, southerner on the battlefield could barely read let alone understand the issue of States rights. For the most part the average person today doesn't understand this concept so it's hard to believe they rallied under a legal cause they barely understood. Most southerners fought to preserve their way of life and to settle the continued animosity towards the North. Slavery was the cornerstone of the southern way of living. It was the driving force behind the south's entire economy.
What were those southerners fighting for then, if not states rights/sovereignty and protection of home and values against the North? According to this guy (writing for the VFW but hosted on a daughters of confederacy website lol http://vaudc.org/confed_vets.html ) only 6% of the South owned slaves, and 3% of the south owned the vast majority of the slaves. Now that's 6-3% of civilians, not soldiers. If you think that the top 3% of civilians who owned the majority of slaves were the same dudes in the front lines with fixed bayonets, I got a bridge to sell you. Johnnie Reb with the rifle was the poor farmer making up the other 94-97% of the Southern civilian population that could barely afford a piece of land to farm, let alone a slave. If any slave owners fought, they were probably generals or high up in the officers corps. It's kind of ridiculous to think that the 94% of the population who did not own slaves would all rise up to protect the big-wig plantation owners' abilities to use slaves.
Hell, before the war the politically-connected plantation owners put up literacy tests to keep the poor white southeners from voting because the latter would have better opportunities and a level playing-field to farm if slavery wasn't allowed and the big-wigs would have to pay them instead of using slave labor. Even if they weren't literate, it's difficult to think they were still so stupid that the average southern man couldn't see this for himself.
As far as racism goes, it's also a complete joke to think that the North was all roses & daisies towards blacks with feelings of complete equality. They didn't use slave labor, in part because their economy couldn't profit from it. The abolitionists were an exception, not the norm. Today of course you have everybody (well, popular figures who like to claim responsibility for the actions of their ancestors hundreds of years ago) claiming that they come from a line of abolitionists and civil rights leaders.
In my opinion, the Confederate flag (if you call it the correctly titled BFNV, no one's going to know what you're talking about) is used by many Southerners to represent Southern tradition and standing up against Northern Aggression. Many of these people have traditionally held racist views. My dip$*** boss is a flaming liberal, and even he admits growing up in SC that they used to refer to blacks as n******s in a casual manner. Racist or not, it must be acknowledged that the Confederate forces fought to preserve their idea of how the country ought to be. They felt completely disenfranchised by the North and took to heart the quote of "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Sadly, this included the right to farm with slavery, but those who actually fought were in no position to profit from that in the slightest. There's no such thing as Boston Hospitality or New York Chivalry. The South had a completely different ethos and way of life, and that's what they fought to protect against the North. [I am from the West coast so I don't really have a dog in this hunt, although I do hate liberals with a fiery passion]
What were those southerners fighting for then, if not states rights/sovereignty and protection of home and values against the North?
[snip]
https://dcmartin.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/that-point-bears-repeating.jpg
IMHO, fighting/eliminating slavery was a just and necessary cause but shouldn't have happened at the expense of the 10th Amendment. History has an interesting way of cutting out the details and giving us a black-and-white version of reality. The South may very well given up on slavery without might makes right and the loss of 500,000+ Americans. It certainly would have been in the economic interests of the middle/working class in the South.
It was a fallacy to believe we needed the Civil War to eliminate slavery and it's a fallacy today to believe that we need to ban a symbol to eliminate racism or ban guns to eliminate violence.
After the Civil War, we were the United States in name only. Without the right to secede, executed or not, we were bound to become a bloated federal behemoth with state government as middle management. The Civil War made the Federal Reserve (banking cartel) possible, Federal income taxes which divert economic power from the states, Prohibition, NFA 1934, etc...
I really don't have a dog in this fight either. Most of my family (Irish) immigrated after the Civil War. The only document I have found connecting us to it a Union enlistment used for a mortgage from a distant relative. Having lived in the South for a short time, I have come to understand the symbol doesn't mean racial oppression to everyone.
The rebel flag was certainly co-opted as a symbol of the Army of Northern Virginia during the second Revolutionary War when many Southern states reacted to the integration of public institutions by force and the authority of the Federal government in the 1950s.
Whatever the rebel flag meant in 1865, it certainly took on it's more current symbolism during the civil rights movement for the 1950s and 1960s.
I support the right of the people of South Carolina doing what ever the dang well want to do with their public buildings.
Is anyone aware of any public building in Colorado that flies any flag other than the national or state flag?
What were those southerners fighting for then, if not states rights/sovereignty and protection of home and values against the North? According to this guy (writing for the VFW but hosted on a daughters of confederacy website lol http://vaudc.org/confed_vets.html ) only 6% of the South owned slaves, and 3% of the south owned the vast majority of the slaves. Now that's 6-3% of civilians, not soldiers. If you think that the top 3% of civilians who owned the majority of slaves were the same dudes in the front lines with fixed bayonets, I got a bridge to sell you. Johnnie Reb with the rifle was the poor farmer making up the other 94-97% of the Southern civilian population that could barely afford a piece of land to farm, let alone a slave. If any slave owners fought, they were probably generals or high up in the officers corps. It's kind of ridiculous to think that the 94% of the population who did not own slaves would all rise up to protect the big-wig plantation owners' abilities to use slaves.
Hell, before the war the politically-connected plantation owners put up literacy tests to keep the poor white southeners from voting because the latter would have better opportunities and a level playing-field to farm if slavery wasn't allowed and the big-wigs would have to pay them instead of using slave labor. Even if they weren't literate, it's difficult to think they were still so stupid that the average southern man couldn't see this for himself.
As far as racism goes, it's also a complete joke to think that the North was all roses & daisies towards blacks with feelings of complete equality. They didn't use slave labor, in part because their economy couldn't profit from it. The abolitionists were an exception, not the norm. Today of course you have everybody (well, popular figures who like to claim responsibility for the actions of their ancestors hundreds of years ago) claiming that they come from a line of abolitionists and civil rights leaders.
In my opinion, the Confederate flag (if you call it the correctly titled BFNV, no one's going to know what you're talking about) is used by many Southerners to represent Southern tradition and standing up against Northern Aggression. Many of these people have traditionally held racist views. My dip$*** boss is a flaming liberal, and even he admits growing up in SC that they used to refer to blacks as n******s in a casual manner. Racist or not, it must be acknowledged that the Confederate forces fought to preserve their idea of how the country ought to be. They felt completely disenfranchised by the North and took to heart the quote of "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Sadly, this included the right to farm with slavery, but those who actually fought were in no position to profit from that in the slightest. There's no such thing as Boston Hospitality or New York Chivalry. The South had a completely different ethos and way of life, and that's what they fought to protect against the North. [I am from the West coast so I don't really have a dog in this hunt, although I do hate liberals with a fiery passion]
I totally agree with your the fact most southerners were poor. There were really only 2(3) classes of people in the South. Rich plantation or business owners, poor whites and slaves ( obviously there were some very small exceptions to this ). For all intensive purposes the middle class didn't exist. The South was an aristocracy or caste system plain and simple. The rich wanted no part of the poor influencing their way of life. As to why "Johnny Reb" wanted to fight? I believe that question is as old as warfare itself. Wars have traditionally been dictated by the rich and fought by the poor in every part of the world. This country had not been at war for quite a while and as history teaches us, we have short memories when it comes to the horrors of it. Young men seek adventure, glory and the willingness to test themselves. The young men at the time lived in a very small sphere and most likely didn't understand fully why the two sides were about to clash. I've read in quite a few books that the desertion rate was extremely high twords the end of the war. I am sure many wondered after a time why they were fighting.
Your numbers actually speak volumes as to the disparity of wealth in the South. The rich aristocrats wanted no part of that changing. Throughout the last hundred or so years I think there has been a gentle restructuring of what the "Southern Way of Life" actually was prior to 1865. Most people were dirt poor, had little to no medicine or healthcare, barely any education to speak of and typically didn't own any land. It wasn't all mint juleps and cotillions.
I don't pretend to understand the southern way of life as I was raised in Minnesota. My father grew up in the south and half of my family still lives between South Carolina and Virginia. Their view on the Flag and honoring Confederate history is not all roses and nostalgia. I guess it all depends on perspective.
electronman1729
06-24-2015, 21:27
59192
Honey Badger282.8
06-24-2015, 22:03
It's kind of ironic that this guys goal was to cause a race war and in the early days it had the exact opposite effect. It was only when the SJW's started blithering on about the Confederate flag that any racial lines were drawn. It's sad really.
I tend to agree with both what RMAC757 and Davsel have said about this.
My take is that yes the average Southern soldier was not fighting to preserve slavery, and the vast majority did not own slaves, ALL wars are fought by those with little at stake in the root causes and supposed reasons for armed conflict.
YES slavery was unjust and a blight on our history, BUT the problems this country has faced that were brought on by that War being fought in the first place are many, many more than we would have had if the Lincoln administration, and prior administrations had not pushed the Southern States into a corner.
Taxes were the main reason for Southern secession. Due to protective tariffs, the South was paying over 75% of all taxes. In the 1830s, South Carolina almost seceded over this issue alone. In 1860, 80% of Federal spending subsidized Northern industry. Lincoln had promised to almost double the protective tariffs the South found so abusive; once he took office this is the first thing he did. This important issue was initially downplayed when the Southern states seceded, because they did not want Northern states to fully understand the adverse economic effects that secession would have on them.
The Emancipation Proclamation, adopted 1½ years into the war, and after well over 100,000 soldier were dead, was not designed to free slaves it was designed to win the war by disrupting the southern economy; it only freed slaves in Confederate held territory.
<MADDOG>
06-25-2015, 20:42
Taxes were the main reason for Southern secession. Due to protective tariffs, the South was paying over 75% of all taxes. In the 1830s, South Carolina almost seceded over this issue alone. In 1860, 80% of Federal spending subsidized Northern industry. Lincoln had promised to almost double the protective tariffs the South found so abusive; once he took office this is the first thing he did. This important issue was initially downplayed when the Southern states seceded, because they did not want Northern states to fully understand the adverse economic effects that secession would have on them.
The Emancipation Proclamation, adopted 1½ years into the war, and after well over 100,000 soldier were dead, was not designed to free slaves it was designed to win the war by disrupting the southern economy; it only freed slaves in Confederate held territory.
+1 Mtn.man
If you read about the true origins about the Civil War, you will find "slavery" has a part of the declaration, but that is far from the whole as the current textbooks & media like to portray.
I guess the question is: why has the BFV flying over the Civil War memorial in SC (adjacent to, but not on top of, the state capitol), after over 40 years, become the hot topic?
Look! SHINNYYY!!!!!
hollohas
06-25-2015, 20:55
Because liberals ALWAYS focus thier efforts on objects, not real issues or the people envolved. Guns, flag, etc. They always try to steer the conversation towards something that will get more traction than a simple crazy person that did something bad. They know objects spur emotions and emotions get the media and supporters energized.
The conversation about the crazy kid killing some folks? That doesn't have any lasting effect. Everyone in this country agrees the kid is evil. The conversation is short lived when everyone agrees. BUT, steer the conversation to an OBJECT that the kid once had in a picture? Now that will get the country to disagree and argue and keep the media spotlight focused for weeks.
Divide and polarize. It's in the playbook.
Great-Kazoo
06-25-2015, 21:03
+1 Mtn.man
If you read about the true origins about the Civil War, you will find "slavery" has a part of the declaration, but that is far from the whole as the current textbooks & media like to portray.
I guess the question is: why has the BFV flying over the Civil War memorial in SC (adjacent to, but not on top of, the state capitol), after over 40 years, become the hot topic?
Look! SHINNYYY!!!!!
The biggest is "racial injustice" working it's way up to Reparations for untold millions = the ultimate FSA payoff . Thus giving the D's a lock on the white house and most of government till who knows when. It in turn will also give them the power to finally eliminate guns from law abiding people. If not, a rigged Constitutional Convention eliminating the freedoms one has taken for granted.
Sounds far fetched? Probably. However when one listens to talk radio and the people calling in say THE FEDERAL .GOV NEEDS TO GO TO SC AND PHYSICALLY REMOVE THAT SYMBOL OF HATE. It's not impossible.
hollohas
06-25-2015, 21:05
Or when mainstream media anchors ask the question "should we take down the Jefferson Memorial because he had slaves?"
Yeah, not far fetched at all.
The Civil War was difficult enough for people who lived through it to understand. Thousands of historians have written millions of words on hundreds of various aspects of the war.
Given the general nature of public opinion in the USA today, I doubt anyone would have a clue as to the numerous reasons for most of what was going on in 1860.
I thought this was an interesting short read on northerners fighting for the south and southerners fighting for the north:
http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/6-generals-who-fought-against-their-home-state-in-the-civil-war
Anyone want to guess how nuanced the understanding of anything related to the Civil War the 9th grade drop out murderer had?
I am so ready to move on from this topic. Has anyone been eaten by a shark recently?
[beatdeadhorse]
BushMasterBoy
06-25-2015, 21:40
Vote for hilarious!
Great-Kazoo
06-25-2015, 22:08
The Civil War was difficult enough for people who lived through it to understand. Thousands of historians have written millions of words on hundreds of various aspects of the war.
Given the general nature of public opinion in the USA today, I doubt anyone would have a clue as to the numerous reasons for most of what was going on in 1860.
I thought this was an interesting short read on northerners fighting for the south and southerners fighting for the north:
http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/6-generals-who-fought-against-their-home-state-in-the-civil-war
Anyone want to guess how nuanced the understanding of anything related to the Civil War the 9th grade drop out murderer had?
I am so ready to move on from this topic. Has anyone been eaten by a shark recently?
[beatdeadhorse]
does jumping the shark count?
https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.TK3WcOT9ogUsN3GHuSK1Zw&pid=15.1&P=0
Now you can lock it down.
Maybe we could talk about Greece again?
I am so ready to move on from this topic. Has anyone been eaten by a shark recently?
Shark Week is coming soon!
Great-Kazoo
06-25-2015, 22:50
Shark Week is coming soon!
EVEN BETTER
http://www.syfy.com/sharknado3
https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.VanNZ9BwtZyk7dataQkEAw&pid=15.1&P=0
http://www.syfy.com/sites/syfy/files/styles/syfy_episode_logo/public/logo_v3_Sharknado3_0.png?itok=8jIH-99x
http://www.syfy.com/sites/syfy/files/styles/syfy_episode_logo/public/logo_v3_Sharknado3_0.png?itok=8jIH-99x
Even though Roof allegedly used a Glock .45 it appears the good folks in the media are working the AR-15 angle hard now.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/26/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/index.html
"Charleston racist shooter Roof wanted an AR-15; had magazines, accessory"
hollohas
06-26-2015, 07:37
OMG OMG OMG!!!! He had AR15 accessories!!!
Roof also had a forearm for an AR-15 in his trunk. It allows a shooter to more easily keep a grip on the rifle, as the barrel grows fiery hot from the shots pouring out of it.
Do we have a fainting smiley?
OMG OMG OMG!!!! He had AR15 accessories!!!
Do we have a fainting smiley?
[Faint]
hollohas
06-26-2015, 07:58
Normal people shoot slowly and don't get hot barrels. He obviously wanted to shoot faster than normal people. He was just seconds away from murdering millions because he didn't have to worry about his fiery hot, bullet pouring barrel burning his hand.
Forearms are the tool of killers! Ban forearms!!!!
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/26/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/index.html
I have been waiting for this.
Great-Kazoo
06-26-2015, 09:05
I have been waiting for this.
#blackcrimesdon'tmatter
http://news.yahoo.com/vandals-target-confederate-monuments-half-dozen-states-053121976.html
Michael Allen, a lecturer in American culture studies at Washington University in St. Louis, compared the vandalism to the toppling of statues in Russia at the end of the Soviet empire.
"If the monuments are strong statements of past values, defacing them is the easiest and loudest way to rebuke those statements," Allen said.
If i burn a Rainbow flag I'm a Homophobic.
Burn a Mexican Flag, I'm a racist
Deface State & Federal monuments, I'm making a statement [facepalm] Maybe i'll remove money from a few banks. AFTER ALL I'm justified doing so, based on my inability to buy my dream home.
Rucker61
06-26-2015, 09:09
If his original intent was to shoot up a mall, then shooting up a church looks more like a target of opportunity than a racial hate crime.
If his original intent was to shoot up a mall, then shooting up a church looks more like a target of opportunity than a racial hate crime.
It was his speech during the shootings that qualified it as a hate crime. I'm not sure that makes a huge difference in how long it will take him to get the needle. Just whether or not it belongs under Federal Jurisdiction.
muddywings
06-26-2015, 12:08
If his original intent was to shoot up a mall, then shooting up a church looks more like a target of opportunity than a racial hate crime.
It was his speech during the shootings that qualified it as a hate crime. I'm not sure that makes a huge difference in how long it will take him to get the needle. Just whether or not it belongs under Federal Jurisdiction.
Both correct.
His home town was, Lexington, yet went to Colombia to a Church who's leadership were strongly anti-2A to start his rampage and spread his message of hate. Sound familar? Like some crazy local who passed up a few other movie theaters that did not have 'no guns allowed' signs and yet picked a location that did. I'm not saying this idiot had enough brain cells to fully make that calculation but I do find it interesting that he did what he did in a location that was against CCW/2A-it was a racial hate crime but he also made it a target of opportunity.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/26/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/index.html
Roof also had a forearm for an AR-15 in his trunk. It allows a shooter to more easily keep a grip on the rifle, as the barrel grows fiery hot from the shots pouring out of it.
Like I always said, handguards are for women and small children.
BPTactical
06-26-2015, 12:27
It allows a shooter to more easily keep a grip on the rifle, as the barrel grows fiery hot from the shots pouring out of it.
Oh FFS[facepalm][facepalm][facepalm][facepalm]
I think the only "Shots poured out" were the ones the "author" of the story consumed prior to writing it........resulting in liberal diarrhea.
muddywings
06-26-2015, 12:30
Like I always said, handguards are for women and small children.
http://i.imgur.com/aFlm9Vy.jpg
ETA: I have no idea why this popped into my brain, but I thought it was funny enough to add....
hollohas
06-26-2015, 12:35
I personally don't use handguards because that would turn my sporting rifle into a dangerous, unpredictable scary thing.
Plus, ^ see how cool it looks?
OtterbatHellcat
06-26-2015, 13:35
Anyone watch the shit show circus just now from our cic ?
I came into it about a half hour ago......I'm thoroughly disgusted with everything I heard flopping out of his mouth.
Like I always said, handguards are for women and small children.
I hold mine by the gas tube.
Sent from my electronic leash.
Great-Kazoo
06-26-2015, 17:20
I hold mine by the gas tube.
Sent from my electronic leash.
Wash your hands first. Sure way to get a rash.
If it was a Mass shooting wouldn't it be a Catholic Church?
OK uncalled for.
Great-Kazoo
06-26-2015, 20:37
If it was a Mass shooting wouldn't it be a Catholic Church?
OK uncalled for.
i for one appreciated the humor you injected there. In fact i will be using it (with modification) of course as part of my next routine. Thanks https://www.ar-15.co/images/smilies/anim_beer1.gif
mods, i know you're out there.
OtterbatHellcat
06-26-2015, 22:30
Black market Confederate flags.
The irony.
No doubt made in China with slave labor.
Like I always said, handguards are for women and small children.
Really? Last time I checked, mine didn't have any.
Really? Last time I checked, mine didn't have any.
You have proven to be the welcome exception to many rules.
[Beer]
Aloha_Shooter
06-27-2015, 06:25
In my opinion, the Confederate flag (if you call it the correctly titled BFNV, no one's going to know what you're talking about) is used by many Southerners to represent Southern tradition and standing up against Northern Aggression. Many of these people have traditionally held racist views. My dip$*** boss is a flaming liberal, and even he admits growing up in SC that they used to refer to blacks as n******s in a casual manner.
I didn't even grow up in the Lower 48 except for a few years in a suburb of DC but I went to college at an elite university in the Northeast. For my money, Southerners were no more racist than Northeast liberals. The big difference was Southerners weren't subtle or politic about their views. Today, I'd say whites are no more racist than blacks; indeed, far less so as a group because whites have had white guilt drummed into them fora few decades now.
Hear anyone called "not white enough" in the last few decades? I didn't think so -- but I HAVE heard someone referred to as "not black enough" in recent years. And for the record, in today's lingo of "enlightened" racism, I'd probably be termed a banana ...
Bailey Guns
06-27-2015, 06:39
So when will this flag be banned:
59255
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