Common sense regarding the Death Penalty

[TFOGGER]

I will say first and foremost that I am a proponent of the death penalty, and see nothing wrong with a firing squad, or hanging, or the electric chair as means of carrying out that sentence. For whatever reason, the courts have decided that lethal injection is the appropriate method to humanely(wtf?) execute murderers. In recent years, there has been an issue with pharmaceutical companies either refusing to supply the selected drugs to the states, or supplying drugs that were not effective(again, wtf?, it's not that hard to OD someone).

My question is this: Why the hell don't they use some of the drugs that they confiscate from drug dealers(heroin, for instance) to carry out executions? Even if the drugs were cut with adulterants for street sale, I'm certain that say, 1000 times the normal lethal dose would be more than adequate to ensure a positive result. This would solve the issue of drug companies refusing to sell to the states, as well as aiding in the disposal of confiscated drugs.

I don't intend for this thread to become yet another discussion about the merits or weaknesses of capital punishment, merely a discussion of the methodology and logistical issues surrounding lethal injection.

[Sawin]

I appreciate your logic, but I see one problem with your otherwise interesting idea, TFOGGER.... Granted my reply below is largely "Tongue in Cheek" and not what I personally believe, some might argue that there are sad truths within it... I imagine we've all heard rumors that "the prison system is a money maker" and "cops are crooked", etc....

In both areas of this idea (the death-row-inmate and the drugs), there's money being lost on both accounts by doing it your way.

1. Killing the convict results in lessened $$ for the system, so they're not altogether motivated to put them down even if well deserved after being convicted to death by a jury.
2. Using "N" amount of confiscated drugs means "N" amount of value lost that can't be sold back on the street following "case closed".

[facepalm]

[vossman]

But then the govt wouldn't have reason to buy that shit at crazy expensive prices. I hear you though. What makes the lethal injection formula correct. There are so many ways to get the same result. Put enough of most any drug into someone and it will knock them out then kill them.

[Brian]

There you go with that common sense... :)

Pretty sure there's a list of drugs that have been "tested" somehow and are acceptable for this use. For anything not on that list - it'd be hard to say you'd know what the effects are if they haven't been tested. Maybe it'd kill you but it might take hours, or have other nasty side effects. Then you have the problem that drugs you're going to confiscate are probably cut with who-knows-what that might have other random effects too.

The cynical side of me also assumes that there's large amounts of money involved somewhere. Someone is paying someone else large stacks of cash for the "proper" way to do it.

[TheGrey]

I think it lies in the area of "humanely" killing. Street drugs, such as heroin, do not provide a "humane" death when overdosing. It's not clean, and there is something incredibly twisted about using a "recreational" (albeit highly illegal) drug to put a prisoner to death. It's got to be separated in order to be sanctioned.

Using lethal injection used to be a fairly "clean" way of doing the deed; there was no pain, no unsightly convulsions, no obvious distress. I suspect it has to do with the people involved in this last act as much as it does the prisoner's rights...but I am just guessing.

[Brian]

I suspect it has to do with the people involved in this last act as much as it does the prisoner's rights...but I am just guessing.

That's a really good point I hadn't thought about. Ultimately, we may not care about the guy who's going to die, but there are a lot of people who have to live with being the instrument of the death. Somewhat like having blank rounds in some of the rifles used by the firing squad. They have to be able to live with being a part of it somehow.

[ruthabagah]

It's all about being "human" ... what a joke. If I was in charge I would go back to the good old time of the guillotine.... Most human way to execute!


http://www.history.com/topics/french-revolution/videos/coroners-report-guillotine

[HoneyBadger]

I like rope. its reuseable.

[sroz]

I'm opposed because what you are suggesting is government sponsored drug addiction. [Coffee]

[Sarcasm2]

[TFOGGER]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/06/29/oklahoma-says-it-will-resume-executions-after-supreme-courts-ruling-on-lethal-injection/


“Because the Court declined to require that states follow scientific guidelines in determining their lethal injection procedures, states will be allowed to conduct additional human experimentation when they carry out executions by lethal injection,” Dale Baich, one of the attorneys for the prisoners, said in a statement.[Read the court’s opinion on lethal injection drug (http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/national/supreme-court-opinion-on-lethal-injection-drug/1611/)]
Midazolam was used in the execution of convicted murdered Clayton Lockett (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/05/02/what-it-was-like-watching-the-botched-oklahoma-execution/), who kicked and grimaced during his execution last year before dying 43 minutes after it began. A state investigation blamed the bungled procedure (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/09/04/oklahoma-investigation-into-botched-execution-finds-problems-with-iv-insertion-training-of-execution-team/) on poor placement of a needle during the injection. The same drug was also used in the execution of an Arizona inmate who took nearly two hours to die (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/07/23/arizona-supreme-court-stays-planned-execution/) last year.

Seriously, why are they using these exotic ineffective drugs, when there are so many proven alternatives available? FFS, veterinary euthanasia is a science that has been refined for over a hundred years.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I like rope. its reuseable.

[word]

[DireWolf]

Why does it even need to be 'humane'? Once all doubt of guilt has been exhausted for crimes deserving of death and sentence imposed, I think there should be two tiers, firing squad on the low end, and incineration for those especially deserving...maybe a bit of adrenaline administered at the beginning of the process...

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

[Bailey Guns]

Yeah...I'm not too concerned about how much a prisoner suffers during a botched execution. Too much current lights the guy up a little bit? That's what fire extinguishers are for. Drugs burn during administration or don't work quickly? Administer more drugs.

Personally, I like the firing squad idea. I never understood why a shooter would be issued a blank round, though. The sound and recoil are noticeably different when using a blank round. It seems to me the shooter would know.

[sellersm]

I appreciate your logic, but I see one problem with your otherwise interesting idea, TFOGGER.... Granted my reply below is largely "Tongue in Cheek" and not what I personally believe, some might argue that there are sad truths within it... I imagine we've all heard rumors that "the prison system is a money maker" and "cops are crooked", etc....

In both areas of this idea (the death-row-inmate and the drugs), there's money being lost on both accounts by doing it your way.

1. Killing the convict results in lessened $$ for the system, so they're not altogether motivated to put them down even if well deserved after being convicted to death by a jury.
2. Using "N" amount of confiscated drugs means "N" amount of value lost that can't be sold back on the street following "case closed".

It's not a rumor. The system is a huge money maker, and getting bigger all the time. Ummmmmm, what nation has the highest number of people in incarceration? Yup, you guessed it. How do many of the TLA raise their $$$? Yup, you guessed it.

The entire "Matrix" is so screwed up, upside down, backwards and idiotic, it makes my head hurt...

[cstone]

Lethal injection of a .30 full metal jacket in the cerbral cortex. Pretty quick and inexpensive.

Probably nothing less expensive, faster, least painful, and more reusable than a quillotine.

The average time on death row more than doubled from 6 years and 2 months in 1984 to 14 years and one month by 2009. The primary reason inmates left death row is because their sentences or convictions were overturned (59.5%) and not because of execution (24.0%). As of September 26, 2011
http://deathpenalty.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004433

[Bailey Guns]

Wait a minute... I know how to kill (pun intended) two birds with one stone.

Obama says terrorists, like ISIS members, wouldn't be terrorists if they only had jobs. So, let's make them executioners here. They have a job so they're no longer enticed to be a terrorist. And, they're pretty handy at wielding sharp objects in order to separate heads from bodies....ie: they have experience.

Problem solved. No more terror and no more botched executions.

[KestrelBike]

breathing mask connected to two tanks: one oxygen, one CO (carbon monoxide). After 20 seconds of oxygen, switch over to CO. Body still breathes in a volume of air, but brain does not recognize it's getting CO until after the person painlessly passes out. Feed 5 minutes of CO. DNR. Done. Cost? Probably about $1.50. No blood, no pain, no trauma, all results. It's how I'd die if given a choice. This whole 'cocktail' for lethal injection is a $$$-grabbing boondoggle joke. God, how I wish all of these charlatans in all industries could be ferreted out and punished.

[Skip]

I like rope. its reuseable.

But gets dirty.

I say do 'em how they murdered. It was good enough for their victim(s)...

[TheGrey]

The complications come when certain convicts are found to be innocent. There have been a lot of exonerations.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/free-innocent/improve-the-law/fact-sheets/dna-exonerations-nationwide

"There have been 330 post-conviction DNA exonerations (http://www.innocenceproject.org/know/) in the United States.

• The first DNA exoneration took place in 1989. Exonerations have been won in 37 states (http://www.innocenceproject.org/news/StateView.php); since 2000, there have been 263 exonerations.
• 20 of the 330 people exonerated through DNA served time on death row (http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/1857.php). Another 16 were charged with capital crimes but not sentenced to death.
• The average length of time served by exonerees is 14 years. The total number of years served is approximately 4,510.
• The average age of exonerees at the time of their wrongful convictions was 26.5.
Races of the 330 exonerees:
205 African Americans
99 Caucasians
24 Latinos
2 Asian American

• The true suspects and/or perpetrators have been identified in 162 of the DNA exoneration cases (http://www.innocenceproject.org/know/Search-Profiles.php?check=check&title=&yearConviction=&yearExoneration=&jurisdiction=&cause=&perpetrator=Yes&compensation=&conviction=&x=15&y=1). Those actual perpetrators went on to be convicted of 145 additional crimes, including 77 sexual assaults, 34 murders, and 34 other violent crimes while the innocent sat behind bars for their earlier offenses.
• Since 1989, there have been tens of thousands of cases where prime suspects were identified and pursued—until DNA testing (prior to conviction) proved that they were wrongly accused.
• In more than 25 percent of cases in a National Institute of Justice study, suspects were excluded once DNA testing was conducted during the criminal investigation (the study, conducted in 1995, included 10,060 cases where testing was performed by FBI labs).
• 71 percent of the people exonerated through DNA testing have been financially compensated. 30 states, the federal government, and the District of Columbia have passed laws to compensate people who were wrongfully incarcerated. Awards under these statutes vary from state to state.
• An Innocence Project review of our closed cases from 2004 - 2010 revealed that 22 percent of cases were closed because of lost or destroyed evidence.
• The Innocence Project was involved in 176 of the 329 DNA exonerations. Others were helped by Innocence Network organizations, private attorneys and by pro se defendants in a few instances.
• 31 of the DNA exonerees pled guilty (http://www.innocenceproject.org/guiltyplea) to crimes they did not commit.
Leading Causes of Wrongful Convictions
These DNA exoneration cases have provided irrefutable proof that wrongful convictions are not isolated or rare events, but arise from systemic defects that can be precisely identified and addressed. For more than 15 years, the Innocence Project has worked to pinpoint these trends. Many wrongful convictions overturned with DNA testing involve multiple causes.

Eyewitness Misidentification Testimony was a factor in more than 70 percent percent of post-conviction DNA exoneration cases in the U.S., making it the leading cause of these wrongful convictions. At least 40 percent of these eyewitness identifications involved a cross racial identification (race data is currently only available on the victim, not for non-victim eyewitnesses). Studies have shown that people are less able to recognize faces of a different race than their own. These suggested reforms are embraced by leading criminal justice, legal, and law enforcement organizations and have been adopted in numerous states from New Jersey and North Carolina, to Georgia and Texas, as well as large cities like Minneapolis and Seattle, and many smaller jurisdictions. Read more (http://www.innocenceproject.org/understand/Eyewitness-Misidentification.php).

Unvalidated or Improper Forensic Science played a role in 47 percent of wrongful convictions later overturned by DNA testing. While DNA testing was developed through extensive scientific research at top academic centers, many other forensic techniques – such as hair microscopy, bite mark comparisons, firearm tool mark analysis and shoe print comparisons – have never been subjected to rigorous scientific evaluation. Meanwhile, forensics techniques that have been properly validated – such as serology, commonly known as blood typing – are sometimes improperly conducted or inaccurately conveyed in trial testimony. In other wrongful conviction cases, forensic scientists have engaged in misconduct. Read more (http://www.innocenceproject.org/understand/Unreliable-Limited-Science.php).
False confessions and incriminating statements were present in approximately 28 percent of cases. Looking at only the homicide cases, false confessions are the leading contributing factor - contributing to 71 (63%) of the 113 homicide cases among the DNA exonerations. Thirty-one of the DNA exonerees pled guilty (http://www.innocenceproject.org/guiltyplea) to crimes they did not commit. The Innocence Project encourages police departments to electronically record all custodial interrogations in their entirety in order to provide an accurate record of the proceedings and provide fact-finders with a solid understanding of the questioning that led to the confession or admission.
Informants contributed to wrongful convictions in 15 percent of cases. The continued use of jailhouse informants and other incentivized witnesses is a demonstrated contributing cause to wrongful convictions. A tragic number of innocent individuals have been forced to confront these types of situations without any clear protections against untruthful testimony. A comprehensive study of the nation’s first 200 DNA exonerations revealed that 18% were convicted, at least in part, on the basis of informant, jailhouse informant or cooperating alleged co-perpetrator testimony. There are many reasons as to why a witness might lie and without the necessary process for regulating and disclosing informant statements before their testimony taints fact-finder judgment, these harmful actions will continue to pervert the justice system."
- See more at: http://www.innocenceproject.org/free-innocent/improve-the-law/fact-sheets/dna-exonerations-nationwide#sthash.qU0XLwTP.dpuf

[HoneyBadger]

But gets dirty.

I say do 'em how they murdered. It was good enough for their victim(s)...
I'm a fan of that idea, but what if they do something particularly awful? Torture their victims, rape them with a pineapple, etc? Who doles out the punishment? Do we keep some of the deranged around to do the dirty work? Do we turn some unsuspecting government servant into a psychopathic killer? Is it ever okay to commit that sort of act and still consider yourself good and righteous?

[BushMasterBoy]

God know how many innocents the system has executed. It is a disgrace.

[Skip]

I'm a fan of that idea, but what if they do something particularly awful? Torture their victims, rape them with a pineapple, etc? Who doles out the punishment? Do we keep some of the deranged around to do the dirty work? Do we turn some unsuspecting government servant into a psychopathic killer? Is it ever okay to commit that sort of act and still consider yourself good and righteous?

This state is full of pineapple rapists in waiting. We'd find someone...

On a serious level... Good points. Maybe, whatever the method, death should be expedient.

[Aloha_Shooter]

But gets dirty.
What, they worried about infections?


I say do 'em how they murdered. It was good enough for their victim(s)...
This is one point I agree with Sharia law ... hand 'em over to the families of their victims and turn away.

[Joe_K]

Pneumatic cattle kill gun. No need to waste all that precious lead and copper jacket

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

[crays]

I'm a fan of that idea, but what if they do something particularly awful? Torture their victims, rape them with a pineapple, etc? Who doles out the punishment?...

I see what you did there.... [emoji531] [emoji531] [emoji531]