Another electrical question

[Hotchef181818]

So I'm in the process of troubleshooting my pool light and I'm stumped. I just installed a new switch and still have the same issue.

Switch on left is the pool light, right is spa. Spa is working fine. Meter is showing 85 volts on the pool switch, 121 on the spa switch.

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/hotchef181818/image.jpg4.jpg (http://s778.photobucket.com/user/hotchef181818/media/image.jpg4.jpg.html)

[Wulf202]

It looks like a mess using interrupted hots. But I cant really see enough. Can you lay the switches flat and take a shot straight on?

[Hotchef181818]

It looks like a mess using interrupted hots. But I cant really see enough. Can you lay the switches flat and take a shot straight on?

Gimme 2 min

[Hotchef181818]

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/hotchef181818/image.jpg1_1.jpg (http://s778.photobucket.com/user/hotchef181818/media/image.jpg1_1.jpg.html)

[Irving]

Why aren't the neutrals hooked up?

[Hotchef181818]

No idea. I opened the box and this is how it was. Don't know enough about electrical but it seems odd to have unused wires in there. Not sure how the spa light is working though

[Irving]

The whites together looks to be correct. Perhaps this image will help. Someone will come along to correct though.

EDIT: I removed the image so as to not be confusing. The image I posted was two switches, controlling one light. Looks like you have two switches, controlling their own appliances.

[Hotchef181818]

Not a 3 way so I don't think there is a traveler. 2 switches each powering a different light.

[Rooskibar03]

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah253/Rooskibar03/649459d3745f729ede3ac28a2295fc9c_zpsh8kadun8.jpg

[Sparky]

Check hot to neutral at the switch.

[SideShow Bob]

One hot wire in to the first switch, the second switch tapped off of the first at the hot connection, nope not 3-ways.
If you are getting 120V at one switch and only 85V at the second, the hot jumper between the switches, or the second switch is your problem.

Also, you need a grounding jumper to each switch, that is what those crusty green screws on the bottom of each switch are for.

[Hotchef181818]

Check hot to neutral at the switch.

Not sure what that means

[Hotchef181818]

One hot wire in to the first switch, the second switch tapped off of the first at the hot connection, nope not 3-ways.
If you are getting 120V at one switch and only 85V at the second, the hot jumper between the switches, or the second switch is your problem.


Thats is what's odd. The first switch is getting 85 volts, the second is at 121. Unless I'm completely clueless, which is possible. I just try not to kill myself with electricity. I'll show the meter readings in a min to clarify

[SideShow Bob]

Thats is what's odd. The first switch is getting 85 volts, the second is at 121. Unless I'm completely clueless, which is possible. I just try not to kill myself with electricity. I'll show the meter readings in a min to clarify

I edited my post to include this :

Also, you need a grounding jumper to each switch, that is what those crusty green screws on the bottom of each switch are for.

[Hotchef181818]

I edited my post to include this :

Also, you need a grounding jumper to each switch, that is what those crusty green screws on the bottom of each switch are for.

i was wondering about that. I did read today that sometimes when a metal box is used outdoors they ground from contacting the box, any truth to that?

if true why does the spa light work but not the pool light when the aren't screwed in?

Hopefully im not confusing you guys too

[SideShow Bob]

Do you really want to trust that leaky ( see the corrosion in the box ) old box to provide a good ground ?

And the previous mentioned water damage in the box is most likely in the switch and or the hot jumper between the switches.
Replace the bell box, seals and cover along with the switches.
you can get it all for less than a $20 bill.

[Hotchef181818]

Do you really want to trust that leaky ( see the corrosion in the box ) old box to provide a good ground ?

And the previous mentioned water damage in the box is most likely in the switch and or the hot jumper between the switches.
Replace the bell box, seals and cover along with the switches.
you can get it all for less than a $20 bill.

Agreed, I have a new cover and seals awaiting for a working light, I'll grab a box too and swap that out.

What at I don't understand and maybe I don't know what I'm looking at.....The hot wire comes into the box and hits the left switch first(showing 85 volts) then has a jumper to the right switch(121 volts). Also the spa light isn't grounded either and turning on just fine. Does any of this make sense?

Another question...why is the ground wire coming out of the conduit into a wire nut and the to the screw? Why isn't it ran directly to the screw?

[Sparky]

Not sure what that means

Pull the white wires out of the box and remove the wire nut. Put your meter on the constant hot and white wire. Constant is the black tied to both switches. If you get good voltage turn the switch on and test the switch leg to neutral.

[SideShow Bob]

Ground out anything near water or a wet environment (outdoors, even in Texas) or you may get a nasty shock when something goes wrong.
Notice I didn't say if something goes wrong.

Are you measuring the voltages at the switched (controlled) terminal ? If so, there could be corrosion in the contacts inside the switch causing resistance and the voltage drop. If you are measuring at the hot terminal, surface corrosion could be doing the same thing.
Electricity is still a mystery, that is why the schools teach electrical THEORY.

[Hotchef181818]

I'll try some of this in the am, getting dark here. There is a gfci before this j box and the switch on the left I new as of today so I think that would rule out corrosion.

[SideShow Bob]

I'll try some of this in the am, getting dark here. There is a gfci before this j box and the switch on the left I new as of today so I think that would rule out corrosion.

And is also outdoors and the same age & condition as this box and devises ? If so, replace it too.

[Hotchef181818]

And is also outdoors and the same age & condition as this box and devises ? If so, replace it too.

Ill check it as well. I still don't get how any of this explains why the pool light isn't working but the spa light does. Replacing the stuff for regular maintained makes sense and I'll do it while I'm sorting this out since I'm there anyways. Shouldn't the pool light at least come on and be dim with 85 volts? Or is that not how this works ?

[SideShow Bob]

What is the voltage measuring at the non functioning light ? Is it an incandescent lamp, CFL, LED or a ballast controled HID ?

It is a good thing for the neighbors that the your pool light is out, so they don't have to see you skinny dipping, on second thought, maybe that IS why your pool light is not working.........

[Irving]

Maybe the power is traveling in the opposite direction that you think it is.

[Hotchef181818]

What is the voltage measuring at the non functioning light ? Is it an incandescent lamp, CFL, LED or a ballast controled HID ?

It is a good thing for the neighbors that the your pool light is out, so they don't have to see you skinny dipping, on second thought, maybe that IS why your pool light is not working.........

Il test the light in the am as well. It's a sealed enclosure for the pool niche. This is an underwater light, simple incandescent.

No skinny dipping, Mosquitos are insane right now. Just hooked up a pretty big zapper tonight, hopefully it helps. I was in the pool last night at 7 and they bit my face 3x, fricken hate texas!

[Hotchef181818]

Maybe the power is traveling in the opposite direction that you think it is.

I guess that's possible. How do I figure out which way it's traveling ?

[SideShow Bob]

You just stepped into a whole new pile of [pileoshit], in pool niche lighting, do you now if it is 120v or 12v system with a transformer located else where ?

[Hotchef181818]

120, no transformer

[SideShow Bob]

Were you measuring the 85v at the screw on the left switch where both the incoming hot and jumper to the right switch are ?
Or were you measuring the 85v at the screw with the wire going to the light ?

[Hotchef181818]

Were you measuring the 85v at the screw on the left switch where both the incoming hot and jumper to the right switch are ?
Or were you measuring the 85v at the screw with the wire going to the light ?

Red lead top, common lead bottom(hot and jumper), still learning how to use a meter so that could be wrong as well but I did the same on the other switch and showed 121 volts so I assumed I was doing it correctly.

[SideShow Bob]

Post up some pictures tomorrow of you taking these measurement, so we can rule out "operator" error, and figure your problem out. (Pun intended). [Tooth]

[Hotchef181818]

It's definitely possible it's operator error. Let me see what I can put together in the morning

[Sparky]

Maybe the power is traveling in the opposite direction that you think it is.

This is a joke right?

[Hotchef181818]

This is a joke right?

What I took from that is that the switch on the right is getting power first, thus the 121 volts, then the jumper is bad so only 85 volts are making it to the left switch. I don't see how that's possible though.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Irving stick to insurance.

[Great-Kazoo]

Irving stick to insurance.

And stay off 12 pitch roofs

[Irving]

Irving stick to insurance.

Fair enough.

[jslo]

If it was me, I'd bypass the switches to test. I'd take the hot lead and attach 2 pigtails, 1 for each switch. Then directly wirenut each pigtail to a switch leg.

[flogger]

I never liked working with electricity, I had an uncle electrocuted when I was a kid. Of course his head was shaved and he was strapped to a chair so there wasn't much he could do about it.

[SideShow Bob]

I never liked working with electricity, I had an uncle electrocuted when I was a kid. Of course his head was shaved and he was strapped to a chair so there wasn't much he could do about it.

"Roll on Two......"

[Hotchef181818]

It's going to be tomorrow morning before I get back to this, pretty full day today. Hope everyone is having a great 4th !

[Bmac]

And stay off 12 pitch roofs
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Good advice, but that tends to happen naturally! [ROFL2]

[Irving]

Anything over 8/12 and the angle pulls granules off with ease so it always seems to be in worse condition than it probably is.

[BladesNBarrels]

It's going to be tomorrow morning before I get back to this, pretty full day today. Hope everyone is having a great 4th !
Don't keep us in suspense.
Did you get back to the electrical box or have we lost you?

[panic]

[Hotchef181818]

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/hotchef181818/image.jpg1_2.jpg (http://s778.photobucket.com/user/hotchef181818/media/image.jpg1_2.jpg.html)

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/hotchef181818/image.jpg2_1.jpg (http://s778.photobucket.com/user/hotchef181818/media/image.jpg2_1.jpg.html)

[Hotchef181818]

Don't keep us in suspense.
Did you get back to the electrical box or have we lost you?

[panic]

Long weekend. Kids and wife are gone for the day so I finally have some free time again.

[newracer]

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/hotchef181818/image.jpg1_2.jpg (http://s778.photobucket.com/user/hotchef181818/media/image.jpg1_2.jpg.html)

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/hotchef181818/image.jpg2_1.jpg (http://s778.photobucket.com/user/hotchef181818/media/image.jpg2_1.jpg.html)

As already posted you need to measure the voltage using the neutral.

[Hotchef181818]

So untwist whites ? Black lead to white ? Red lead to ?

[BladesNBarrels]

If the original wiring was done correctly, then from the Textbook:
"The protective ground is green or green with yellow stripe.
The neutral is white, the hot (live or active) single phase wires are black , and red in the case of a second active."

[newracer]

So untwist whites ? Black lead to white ? Red lead to ?

I would start with checking the voltage of each of the leads to neutral (white) with the switches off and on.

[Hotchef181818]

I would start with checking the voltage of each of the leads to neutral (white) with the switches off and on.


So un twist the whites, then black lead(meter) to white wire and then the red lead(meter) to each screw on the switches power on and off correct ? Am I looking for anything specific? Or should I just write all of the readings down and report back ?

[Hotchef181818]

It's really hard to get pictures in this area while holding the meter, alligator clip is on its way tomorrow to make this easier. Should've ordered one to start with.

[newracer]

So un twist the whites, then black lead(meter) to white wire and then the red lead(meter) to each screw on the switches power on and off correct ? Am I looking for anything specific? Or should I just write all of the readings down and report back ?

Yes

You don't need to untwist the white, just remove the wire nut. You might be able to push the test lead into the wire nut and not have to remove it. Just write down the voltages and report back.

[newracer]

If I am looking at it right and what you describe is correct the pool light will only work when the spa switch is on.

[Hotchef181818]

Spa light works regardless. Pics uploading

[Hotchef181818]

Everything else reads 121-123 volts. Pool light is the one reading 36 volts when Off

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/hotchef181818/image.jpg2_2.jpg (http://s778.photobucket.com/user/hotchef181818/media/image.jpg2_2.jpg.html)

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/hotchef181818/image.jpg4_1.jpg (http://s778.photobucket.com/user/hotchef181818/media/image.jpg4_1.jpg.html)

[thvigil11]

36 volts on that side when the switch is off means bad switch.

[Hotchef181818]

That switch is 3 days old

[jdranchman]

It is still a 3 day old bad switch. The circuit should be OPEN and you would get no voltage on the terminal you are testing. Have you removed the light(s) from the socket(s) before testing?

[thvigil11]

Wouldn't be the first time a junk switch caused problems. For starters, your black probe should go to ground and the red should be used to check for voltage. Having voltage on the fixture side (the red wire goes to the light, I assume) means either you are getting something coming through the switch. (bad points, crud, random crap) or you are getting some voltage coming from the neutral side (white wires), or third option, you are getting some sort of stray voltage from another source (another unknown short). Start with pulling the wires off of the switch and remeasuring each side. If you get 120 on the hot and 0 on the fixture side, then its the switch. If you are still getting 36v on the fixture side, you have one of the other problems.

[Hotchef181818]

Wouldn't be the first time a junk switch caused problems. For starters, your black probe should go to ground and the red should be used to check for voltage. Having voltage on the fixture side (the red wire goes to the light, I assume) means either you are getting something coming through the switch. (bad points, crud, random crap) or you are getting some voltage coming from the neutral side (white wires), or third option, you are getting some sort of stray voltage from another source (another unknown short). Start with pulling the wires off of the switch and remeasuring each side. If you get 120 on the hot and 0 on the fixture side, then its the switch. If you are still getting 36v on the fixture side, you have one of the other problems.

Unhooked the light. Still showing 36v on the fixture screw.

[Hotchef181818]

It is still a 3 day old bad switch. The circuit should be OPEN and you would get no voltage on the terminal you are testing. Have you removed the light(s) from the socket(s) before testing?


Light is removed

[thvigil11]

Is it 36V with the light removed and wired removed from switch?

[Hotchef181818]

Is it 36V with the light removed and wired removed from switch?

Yes

[thvigil11]

And 36V at the light? Then it would appear as if you have some sort of stray voltage coming into the system. Possible short in the wiring in between the box and the light. If that conduit runs underground all the way to the pool light, then it might be possible to fish new wires through. If the conduit stops underground and the wires transition to direct burial or something, then you might be having a bad day. What's the distance between the box and the pool light? Any guess on how many angles might be in the conduit? If a short run, you might be able to pull new wires yourself. Longer run or more complex of a system, then it might be time to call a pro.

[thvigil11]

Just to verify. Bare wire at the light and bare wire at the switch (the Red wire) (not hooked to any switch or socket) both read 36V? Incoming voltage (hot) at the bottom of the switched is 120? Hot hooked up to switch, nothing hooked up on top terminal, is it 0 in off position and 120V in on position?

[newracer]

Any voltage between neutral and the ground leads?

[Hotchef181818]

Pretty sure I checked the light and it was showing 0. I'll go back out in a bit and see if I can find another box in the landscaping closer to where the light is. It's probably 20 ft from this box and as far as I know it's all under the concrete deck. I could possibly fish new wires through but that requires purchasing a new light assembly since its a sealed unit(last resort).

[Hotchef181818]

Any voltage between neutral and the ground leads?

ill check this later, have to pick up the kiddos and get dinner started.

[Hotchef181818]

Just to verify. Bare wire at the light and bare wire at the switch (the Red wire) (not hooked to any switch or socket) both read 36V? Incoming voltage (hot) at the bottom of the switched is 120? Hot hooked up to switch, nothing hooked up on top terminal, is it 0 in off position and 120V in on position?

No no bare wire at socket available. It's a pool light(sealed).

[thvigil11]

Here is a quick sketch of what I understand so far. So my questions are. Where does the black hot go to? Does it follow the same conduit as the pool light? It appears to be a three wire (which explains the red and black sharing the white (neutral) and Green (ground). So at the light, are you seeing all these wires, red, black, white and green? Are there other wires seen here? Possibly a two wire line (white and black) bringing 120 volts in.

http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/w515/thvigil11/POOL_zpslksaqvzu.png (http://s1079.photobucket.com/user/thvigil11/media/POOL_zpslksaqvzu.png.html)

[thvigil11]

A shot of the pool light/ socket area could help.

[SideShow Bob]

Hotchef, turn off the breaker to this circuit, double check with your meter that it is dead.
Then remove the wires from the right switch and clean all the corrosion off the wires.
And with the breaker off, put a wire nut on the red wire and black hot wire, you can leave the short black jumper out.
Now go turn on the breaker and check the pool light. It should come on if it is good, and you just determined if your new switch is junk.

[Hotchef181818]

Here is a quick sketch of what I understand so far. So my questions are. Where does the black hot go to? Does it follow the same conduit as the pool light? It appears to be a three wire (which explains the red and black sharing the white (neutral) and Green (ground). So at the light, are you seeing all these wires, red, black, white and green? Are there other wires seen here? Possibly a two wire line (white and black) bringing 120 volts in.

http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/w515/thvigil11/POOL_zpslksaqvzu.png (http://s1079.photobucket.com/user/thvigil11/media/POOL_zpslksaqvzu.png.html)



unknown at the pool light, it's sealed. It's a rubber cord going into the back of the housing. Black hot I believe is coming from the gfci that is before this box.

[Hotchef181818]

Hotchef, turn off the breaker to this circuit, double check with your meter that it is dead.
Then remove the wires from the right switch and clean all the corrosion off the wires.
And with the breaker off, put a wire nut on the red wire and black hot wire, you can leave the short black jumper out.
Now go turn on the breaker and check the pool light. It should come on if it is good, and you just determined if your new switch is junk.

The new switch(one on the left) is the pool switch. It's not a cut jumper, just stripped to run around the screw and then over to the spa light switch(right). If I remove the switch on the left(pool) and twist the red wire around the stripped area on the black wire would it accomplish the same thing ?

[SideShow Bob]

No, what you are trying to do is eliminate the suspect switch. What ever wires going to the switch need shorted together, in the case of the left switch, take both black wire off of it (from the screws on the same switch) and wire nut together. * Turn the breaker off first*!

Still clean the corrosion on the other wires too.

[Hotchef181818]

Would it be possible that there is an issue at the gfi causing this? My understanding is that the white, green and black hot wires are coming from there. I don't see any difference in wiring between the 2 switches that would imply there is a downstream issue but thought it was worth asking.

Next question, is it possible corrosion on the light socket is the culprit? I looked closer today and there is some brown corrosion on the contacts. Would that cause this issue ?

[Hotchef181818]

No, what you are trying to do is eliminate the suspect switch. What ever wires going to the switch need shorted together, in the case of the left switch, take both black wire off of it (from the screws on the same switch) and wire nut together. * Turn the breaker off first*!

Still clean the corrosion on the other wires too.

Bob, that's one wire on the left switch which is the suspect switch. It's just stripped where it loops around the screw and then heads over to the spa switch. I think you're looking at the switches backwards and want me to wrap the red around the black on the left switch. Make sense ?

[SideShow Bob]

Well, it needs corrected, the hot should be pig tailed with a wire nut and a wire feed to each switch.

In other words, the hot wire and two short pieces of wire under a wire nut. And each switch fed with it's own pig tail wire from the wire nut.

[thvigil11]

What is between the switch and the light. GFI? Pics of the wiring at that GFI might help. Outdoor gfis can be problematic, especially after seeing corrosion on the rest of the system.

[Hotchef181818]

What is between the switch and the light. GFI? Pics of the wiring at that GFI might help. Outdoor gfis can be problematic, especially after seeing corrosion on the rest of the system.

Lim 99% sure the gfi is before the switch. I'll get some pics of the gfi tomorrow. It's operating properly though.

[Sparky]

For shits sake lets simplify this.

1. Test constant hot to neutral. Constant hot is the black wire attached to both switches. One lead on the black and one on the white. Do you get 120V? If so step 2
a. If you do not get 120v your problem is before the switch.

2. Turn on the switch and test switch leg to neutral. Do you get 120V? Switch leg is the other wire on the switch.
a. If you do not get 120v throw switch in the trash and get a new one.
b. If you do get 120v the problem is either the wire underground or the light fixture.

Most pools have a deck box somewhere that the cable from the wet niche fixture terminates in. If you turn the switch on you should get proper voltage. If the spa light works fine I suspect your problem is after the GFCI.

[Hotchef181818]

For shits sake lets simplify this.

1. Test constant hot to neutral. Constant hot is the black wire attached to both switches. One lead on the black and one on the white. Do you get 120V? If so step 2
a. If you do not get 120v your problem is before the switch.

2. Turn on the switch and test switch leg to neutral. Do you get 120V? Switch leg is the other wire on the switch.
a. If you do not get 120v throw switch in the trash and get a new one.
b. If you do get 120v the problem is either the wire underground or the light fixture.

Most pools have a deck box somewhere that the cable from the wet niche fixture terminates in. If you turn the switch on you should get proper voltage. If the spa light works fine I suspect your problem is after the GFCI.

1.

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/hotchef181818/image.jpg5.jpg (http://s778.photobucket.com/user/hotchef181818/media/image.jpg5.jpg.html)

2.

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/hotchef181818/image.jpg8.jpg (http://s778.photobucket.com/user/hotchef181818/media/image.jpg8.jpg.html)

[Hotchef181818]

I'll look for a box in the bushes behind the light tomorrow, hopefully my problem is in there.

[jslo]

"WouId it be possible that there is an issue at the gfi causing this? My understanding is that the white, green, black hot wires are coming from there."

Now I'm confused. if your two wire is bringing in the power than your 3 wire would then be your switch legs. Therefore the black spliced jumper is wrong. Unless I'm missing something, you need to verify which is your power supply.

[Hotchef181818]

"WouId it be possible that there is an issue at the gfi causing this? My understanding is that the white, green, black hot wires are coming from there."

Now I'm confused. if your two wire is bringing in the power than your 3 wire would then be your switch legs. Therefore the black spliced jumper is wrong. Unless I'm missing something, you need to verify which is your power supply.

Lets as just disregard that comment for the time being.

[Sparky]

"WouId it be possible that there is an issue at the gfi causing this? My understanding is that the white, green, black hot wires are coming from there."

Now I'm confused. if your two wire is bringing in the power than your 3 wire would then be your switch legs. Therefore the black spliced jumper is wrong. Unless I'm missing something, you need to verify which is your power supply.

No you are missing something. Power in and 2 switch legs out.

[jslo]

But if the 2 wire is bringing the power in, why is the black from the 3 wire jumping across both switches?

[Wulf202]

But if the 2 wire is bringing the power in, why is the black from the 3 wire jumping across both switches?

Wired so that you have to turn the right switch on to power the left. Stop asking why. It's likely the previous owners "improvements"

[Hotchef181818]

Wired so that you have to turn the right switch on to power the left. Stop asking why. It's likely the previous owners "improvements"

We have already covered this part and that's not how it's wired. . Left switch is first in line, jumper is not on the switched power. The issue is the red wire heading out to the light on the top of the left switch which goes from 36v(off) to 85v(on).

Does les the fact that 85+36 = 121 point to the problem by any chance ?

[Hotchef181818]

Just did some reading about phantom voltage and it showing up in underground wiring that is run through conduit. Any sense to that? Or should I just stay the course and look for the box in the am to see if there is a clear answer ?

[newracer]

Doesn't your last picture show 120v on the switch when it is on? If so the problem is beyond the switch as Sparky already said.

[Hotchef181818]

Doesn't your last picture show 120v on the switch when it is on? If so the problem is beyond the switch as Sparky already said.


Yep, confusing stuff for me. I was looking at this pic

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/hotchef181818/image.jpg1_2.jpg (http://s778.photobucket.com/user/hotchef181818/media/image.jpg1_2.jpg.html)

[Great-Kazoo]

Pull all of it and start fresh. You're spending more time troubleshooting it than having it work. Been there before. Who knows how or what they did in those pipes.

[Wulf202]

It's probably something like water in the j box for the light. The last time I rewired a pool light the cord that came with it was 25' or so.

If you've got an air compressor sometimes you can have someone use a blowgun in the conduit and listen for the air coming out.

Maybe its a dumb question but are you getting power to the bulb socket and have you verified the bulb is good? Sometimes those sockets corrode

[Hotchef181818]

It's probably something like water in the j box for the light. The last time I rewired a pool light the cord that came with it was 25' or so.

If you've got an air compressor sometimes you can have someone use a blowgun in the conduit and listen for the air coming out.

Great idea with the compressor, the landscaping is pretty thick so that may do the trick. Great idea!

[Hotchef181818]

Bulb has been checked and works, it's new as well but I did check it. I think I checked power at the socket but can't remember. I'll do that today as well.

[thvigil11]

I'm still thinking your problem is the 3 wire going out to the bulb. The black and red are sharing a common. At some point that black needs to be splitting off to your power source and the red should be going to the bulb. So somewhere that common (white) is getting split to go with both wires. There should be a J box wherever that split is. (or it splits at the bulb junction). My money is on there being an issue there at that junction (corrosion). Usually buried wire in conduit is fairly stable (unless someone has been digging)

[Sparky]

Yep, confusing stuff for me. I was looking at this pic

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/hotchef181818/image.jpg1_2.jpg (http://s778.photobucket.com/user/hotchef181818/media/image.jpg1_2.jpg.html)



Your getting weird voltages in this pic because you are not using your meter correctly.

[MED]

It is very difficult to distinguish the line/load on this connection. First, you need to know which lines are hot and which ones are not. You have two separate black, white, and green wire leads coming from each conduit. Check to see if either or both are hot by connecting your meter to the black and white wires. Your whites being the neutral; you will need to remove the jumper to do this with the switches in the off position. Also, I would check the red and a white to verify if it is hot or cold. If one lead is cold and the other is hot, then the wire nut connecting the two whites is good. I think this was mentioned, but you should have a pig tail from the green at the wire nut to the bottom connections on the switches.


This is completely a guess since I am not there doing the testing, but I would think that the conduit on the right is the hot line. If the right switch is turned on, the jumper supplies power to the black wire on the left and provides power to one of the sets of lights. If the left switch is turned on, the red wire is made hot and provides power to the other sets of lights. If the switches are good, your break is farther down the line. However, I would test this by doing what I suggested above.

[newracer]

It is very difficult to distinguish the line/load on this connection. First, you need to know which lines are hot and which ones are not. You have two separate black, white, and green wire leads coming from each conduit. Check to see if either or both are hot by connecting your meter to the black and white wires. Your whites being the neutral; you will need to remove the jumper to do this with the switches in the off position. Also, I would check the red and a white to verify if it is hot or cold. If one lead is cold and the other is hot, then the wire nut connecting the two whites is good. I think this was mentioned, but you should have a pig tail from the green at the wire nut to the bottom connections on the switches.


This is completely a guess, but I would think that the conduit on the right is the hot line. If the right switch is turned on, the jumper supplies power to the black wire on the left and provides power to one of the sets of lights. If the left switch is turned on, the red wire is made hot and provides power to the other sets of lights. If the switches are good, your break is farther down the line. However, I would test this by doing what I suggested above.

The line and load wires have been identified, the black on the left is hot, red goes to the light that doesn't work, black on right goes to the spa that does work.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Has anyone in this thread thrown the idea out of hiring a licensed professional? Obviously OP is not well versed in this field and after 100 posts(some helpful some not) it still hasn't been diagnosed. That's no dig on the OP just sometimes you gotta know when to call a professional.

[Hotchef181818]

Has anyone in this thread thrown the idea out of hiring a licensed professional? Obviously OP is not well versed in this field and after 100 posts(some helpful some not) it still hasn't been diagnosed. That's no dig on the OP just sometimes you gotta know when to call a professional.

The thought has crossed my mind many times during this process. Electrical is a weakness of mine and I saw this issue as a possibility to learn. I'm only off till next Monday so I'm running out of time.

[Hotchef181818]

Found the box, nowhere near where I thought it would be. It was behind my pool filter. very difficult to take pics back there so bear with me.

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/hotchef181818/image.jpg1_4.jpg (http://s778.photobucket.com/user/hotchef181818/media/image.jpg1_4.jpg.html)

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/hotchef181818/image.jpg3_2.jpg (http://s778.photobucket.com/user/hotchef181818/media/image.jpg3_2.jpg.html)

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/hotchef181818/image.jpg2_3.jpg (http://s778.photobucket.com/user/hotchef181818/media/image.jpg2_3.jpg.html)

[Wulf202]

What a cluster fuck. Your red wire being capped off is odd. It looks like it should go to the black one under the yellow nut. The white under the yellow would have to be tied into the rest of the whites.

Makes me think that it was capped for a reason.

[Wulf202]

Does the hole in the top go straight thru?

[newracer]

So the red that is supposed to go to the light isn't connected to anything, that is why it doesn't work.

I question the white connected to the black.

[newracer]

The white and black that are connected together probably go to the light and where disconnected for a reason.

[Hotchef181818]

When we moved in I had a pool guy look at everything and he said the light was tripping the gfi because of water in the light, he may have unhooked it as a preventative measure. The light has been dried out, replaced the bulb, and new gasket installed.

Im thinking the yellow nut is his if he did anything.. My plan was to put the red wire under the yellow cap with black but unsure what to do with the neutral.

[Hotchef181818]

Does the hole in the top go straight thru?

No

[Irving]

Hotchef, I want to personally thank you for this thread. I plan to use it to show my wife if we are ever in danger of actually getting a pool like she is always talking about.

[Hotchef181818]

Hotchef, I want to personally thank you for this thread. I plan to use it to show my wife if we are ever in danger of actually getting a pool like she is always talking about.

This is is the easiest part of owning a pool. I couldn't live here without it but my god, every day it's something. Some days it's chemicals, every day it's cleaning, then there's filter maintenance, electrical maintenance, upkeep on the motors, then you toss in a heater, a fence surrounding it and the salt generator. It never stops needing attention. I will say that my 2 yr old absolutely loves it and goes in daily. If we didn't have one at the house we'd probably never go to the pool due to having a 5 month old as well. It just keeps me busy as hell and electrical is a night,are for me. I've figured everything else out so far. I can't fix what I can't see though, I've never gotten along with electricity.

[Hotchef181818]

Wulf, I'm thinking about adding the red to the nut to the left. Theory is that he took it off that bundle so that if I threw the switch I would trip the gfi and take out all the outlets on the patio every time. Maybe I'm nuts. What do you think?

Also, if this works and the light comes on the next step is to install back in the niche. I would do that with the power off just to be safe. Then power back on, turn on the light. How the hell do I make sure the water isn't electrified ? Or would the gfi pop if there was water present in the circuit?

[Wulf202]

Connect red to black and put the white in with the other whites. Youll have the spare yellow wire nut the pool guy put in. Fire it up just long enough to check the light. If the pool light is out of the water it will cook the gasket

The gfci will trip the instant the power is on and water hits hot wires. That's why its there. It might tingle for a half second at worst. Not much of a safety concern.

[Hotchef181818]

Connect red to black and put the white in with the other whites. Youll have the spare yellow wire nut the pool guy put in. Fire it up just long enough to check the light. If the pool light is out of the water it will cook the gasket

The gfci will trip the instant the power is on and water hits hot wires. That's why its there. It might tingle for a half second at worst. Not much of a safety concern.

Thats what I was thinking. I'll let you know in a bit. Baby just woke up

[thvigil11]

Connect red to black and put the white in with the other whites. Youll have the spare yellow wire nut the pool guy put in. Fire it up just long enough to check the light. If the pool light is out of the water it will cook the gasket

The gfci will trip the instant the power is on and water hits hot wires. That's why its there. It might tingle for a half second at worst. Not much of a safety concern.

This. Picture sums it up perfectly. Red is your switch leg coming from the switch box. Was capped to prevent shorting. The center conduit, I assume, is going to the light. Those two wires should have been capped individually.

Before you do anything, you could verify this all, by hooking up the switch. In the on position, you should be able to read 120V on the red wire in this new jbox. Once you are sure that power is reaching this part, then you could proceed to put everything together. Hooking the red to the black on the center conduit and tying the common in with the other commons should get power to the light.

[Hotchef181818]

This. Picture sums it up perfectly. Red is your switch leg coming from the switch box. Was capped to prevent shorting. The center conduit, I assume, is going to the light. Those two wires should have been capped individually.

Before you do anything, you could verify this all, by hooking up the switch. In the on position, you should be able to read 120V on the red wire in this new jbox. Once you are sure that power is reaching this part, then you could proceed to put everything together. Hooking the red to the black on the center conduit and tying the common in with the other commons should get power to the light.


Good idea, I'll check that first. Should be able to get into this in about an hours.

Thanks x1,000,000 everyone.

[thvigil11]

No sweat. Let us know in "an hours" [Coffee]

[Hotchef181818]

No sweat. Let us know in "an hours" [Coffee]

Haha, I've been watching the kids while off recovering from back surgery(kinda distracted).

[Hotchef181818]

I have seen the light!!!!! Putting it all back together right now. Thanks a ton guys.

[thvigil11]

[Ban3][Ban1][Ban2][Ban1][Ban3][Ban2][Ban3][Ban2][Ban3][Ban1][Ban2][Ban3][Ban2][Ban1]

[newracer]

So are you going to return the switch?

[Hotchef181818]

So are you going to return the switch?


Nope, the one I replaced was in pretty bad shape. Over the next 2 weeks I'm replacing boxes and all.

[Sparky]

Nope, the one I replaced was in pretty bad shape. Over the next 2 weeks I'm replacing boxes and all.

I wouldn't waste my time doing that. Just make sure you have good in use covers.