View Full Version : Well, it's happened: Greece is out of OPM
Hat tip to Margaret Thatcher. The Greeks have run out of OPM.
AKA, "austerity? That's for poor people!!!". Oh, wait...
Zundfolge
07-05-2015, 17:15
Silly Greeks ... what a bunch of idiots.
Dumbasses voted down the EU bailout because it would mean they would have to take welfare cuts ... instead they've decided to switch back to the Drachma so that the commies in Athens can devalue it to "inflate their way out of debt" (the way the Greeks have delt with national debt for most of the last century) ... so now Greek idiots will still get the same size welfare checks but they'll be worth much less than had they just taken the austerity cuts the EU would have required.
Commies. Really is no connection to reality in their pointy little heads.
Eventually Marxism and Keynesianism hits the brick wall of reality.
You've heard the expression "Stupid should be painful"? THIS will likely end up an example of stupid being painful.
Will be fun to watch (until it starts happening here ... I suspect about this time or a little later next year).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVNbD1nySlw
(yeah, I know they weren't singing about the same kind of Greeks, but its fun none the less)
Time to short the EUR. EUR USD gapped down at the open (109 pips) and looks like it's struggling to come back up. Get your shorts ready.
Who here thought the EU was going to last?
Still have Italy, Spain and Portugal on deck for failure
Everyone needs to watch this closely. Most stuff over there comes over here.
Sounds like I need some more silver in my life
a couple of foreign exchange sites for us to look at.
http://finviz.com/forex.ashx
http://www.xe.com/
Aloha_Shooter
07-05-2015, 20:53
It's been a long time coming. I was in Greece 6 years ago today and a lot of Greeks I met complained about joining the EU and transitioning to the euro -- a lot of them apparently felt prices had tripled under the euro vs. the drachma and they personally hadn't gotten anything out of it. Then again, most of the Greeks I met were engaged in the private economy, not make-work government jobs.
Everyone needs to watch this closely. Most stuff over there comes over here.
Chinese stock markets dropped 30% in the past 3 weeks.
Greece gets cozy with Putin in 5...4...3...
Chinese stock markets dropped 30% in the past 3 weeks.
Its because they no longer make up numbers "Supposedly".
Bailey Guns
07-06-2015, 05:21
Seems like I've been hearing about Greece and financial problems since I was a kid.
Zundfolge
07-06-2015, 08:11
Greece gets cozy with Putin in 5...4...3...
They already are. They went to Putin months ago threatening to leave the EU and join Russian Federation as a satellite state. http://www.euronews.com/2015/06/19/tsipras-courts-putin-as-pressure-mounts-on-greece/
Thing is the Russians aren't so sure they're worth the "investment".
Hat tip to Margaret Thatcher. The Greeks have run out of OPM.
Now Greece wants to borrow from Peter to pay Paul, in the end Greece will absolve itself from its debts leaving the ECB and Germany to eat the losses.
Now the the good part.
Other EU members will decide they don't have to pay their debts either. Then Greece and the others will ask for new loans to support their irresponsible social programs and scream bloody murder when they get turned down.
Bailey Guns
07-06-2015, 13:25
I just checked... My "give-a-fuck about Europe" is really running low.
sellersm
07-06-2015, 13:35
Rumors are flying that China may help Greece out of their mess!
http://sputniknews.com/asia/20150702/1024131486.html#ixzz3ekJRrQxn
Singlestack
07-06-2015, 14:05
Rumors are flying that China may help Greece out of their mess!
http://sputniknews.com/asia/20150702/1024131486.html#ixzz3ekJRrQxn
A friend of mine who works in Washington has been hearing over the past 3-4 weeks that some advisors in the administration are seriously floating the idea of the US bailing out Greece! Apparently to prevent Russia or China from gaining more influence in Greece. Man, I sure hope that isn't true. However, I can see Beeho and the globalists trying to shore up Greece to keep the EU/Euro afloat.
sellersm
07-06-2015, 14:07
A friend of mine who works in Washington has been hearing over the past 3-4 weeks that some advisors in the administration are seriously floating the idea of the US bailing out Greece! Apparently to prevent Russia or China from gaining more influence in Greece. Man, I sure hope that isn't true. However, I can see Beeho and the globalists trying to shore up Greece to keep the EU/Euro afloat.
It sure wouldn't surprise me!!
By the way, after Greece will probably come Puerto Rico!
ChunkyMonkey
07-06-2015, 14:10
Rumors are flying that China may help Greece out of their mess!
http://sputniknews.com/asia/20150702/1024131486.html#ixzz3ekJRrQxn
Not a good source... I'd take anything out of sputnik, RT, or any other Putin's propaganda arms with a sack of salt :)
Zombie Steve
07-06-2015, 14:14
Still have Italy, Spain and Portugal on deck for failure
Most Europeans now just call them the PIGS (Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain).
sellersm
07-06-2015, 14:14
Not a good source... I'd take anything out of sputnik, RT, or any other Putin's propaganda arms with a sack of salt :)
Yep. Exactly my point!! That's why I used the word "rumors"... I find it interesting that sputnik floated this story, Zerohedge talked about it as well. What's the purpose of China/Russia surfacing this kind of "rumor"?
I think it's just to poke another stick in the eye of the entity in the Whitehouse... [Coffee]
ChunkyMonkey
07-06-2015, 14:17
Yep. Exactly my point!! That's why I used the word "rumors"... I find it interesting that sputnik floated this story, Zerohedge talked about it as well. What's the purpose of China/Russia surfacing this kind of "rumor"?
I think it's just to poke another stick in the eye of the entity in the Whitehouse... [Coffee]
One that I can think of...Anything to lower euro at this point will help Russia's gas/oil income. They have lost over 30% in the gas/oil income due to cheaper gas price.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
sellersm
07-06-2015, 14:21
A friend of mine who works in Washington has been hearing over the past 3-4 weeks that some advisors in the administration are seriously floating the idea of the US bailing out Greece! Apparently to prevent Russia or China from gaining more influence in Greece. Man, I sure hope that isn't true. However, I can see Beeho and the globalists trying to shore up Greece to keep the EU/Euro afloat.
Hmmmm, it appears there may be more to this! John Helmer speaks up about it as well. To my knowledge, he's not part of the controlled media coming out of Moscow. Also note that, supposedly, Victoria Nuland is now involved. This won't be good for the Greek people.
http://johnhelmer.net/?p=13712#more-13712
A friend of mine who works in Washington has been hearing over the past 3-4 weeks that some advisors in the administration are seriously floating the idea of the US bailing out Greece! Apparently to prevent Russia or China from gaining more influence in Greece. Man, I sure hope that isn't true. However, I can see Beeho and the globalists trying to shore up Greece to keep the EU/Euro afloat.
:)
I knew it!!
More info and opinion
http://straightlinelogic.com/blog/
Bailey Guns
07-06-2015, 18:20
Who's gonna bail us out?
Zundfolge
07-06-2015, 18:28
Who's gonna bail us out?
Don't worry, "we" will ... just wait until we get negative interest rates and bank "bail-ins" here ... then your savings will just vanish overnight (if you're REAL lucky it'll get replaced with worthless junk bonds) and there will be nothing you can do about it.
sellersm
07-06-2015, 18:29
Who's gonna bail us out?
Got a 401K? Look in the mirror then...
China will probably just come and take all their possessions, which is most of this land.
They already are. They went to Putin months ago threatening to leave the EU and join Russian Federation as a satellite state. http://www.euronews.com/2015/06/19/tsipras-courts-putin-as-pressure-mounts-on-greece/
Thing is the Russians aren't so sure they're worth the "investment".
Putin's never struck me as a flag-waving, comrade lovin', Zil-drivin' all-out Russian Communist.
He's more practical than that, so it doesn't surprise me that he'd give the Greeks a pat on the head before saying "thanks, but no thanks."
Who bails the United States out? No one. FedGov continues to destroy the incentives for private business to succeed, it creates onerous rules (scotuscare) that business cannot compensate for, it continually adds to the tax burden of the citizens. FedGov is biting the hands that feed it. I fully expect FedGov to tax 401Ks, and all other privately held investments, the only thing I don't know is when, 20 years, 10 years, 5 years, who knows, all I can say is that FedGov will tax them and destroy the incentive to invest.
US National Debt Holders
http://useconomy.about.com/od/monetarypolicy/f/Who-Owns-US-National-Debt.htm
The U.S. Treasury (http://useconomy.about.com/od/governmentagencies/p/Treasury.htm) manages the U.S. debt through its Bureau of the Public Debt. It's broken out the debt into two main categories: Intragovernmental Holdings, at $5.117 trillion, and Debt Held by the Public, at $13.024 trillion (as of December 31, 2014)
In February 2015, Japan (http://useconomy.about.com/od/grossdomesticproduct/a/Japan_Recession.htm) beat China (http://useconomy.about.com/od/worldeconomy/p/China_Economy.htm) as the largest holder, at $1.224 trillion. China decreased its holdings to $1.224 trillion from its November 2013 peak of $1.317 trillion. Both Japan and China want to keep the value of the dollar (http://useconomy.about.com/od/tradepolicy/p/Dollar_Value.htm) high when compared to their currencies.
Aloha_Shooter
07-07-2015, 08:18
Pretty good analysis at STRATFOR. Most of it is behind a paywall but here are some snippets:
https://www.stratfor.com/weekly/greek-vote-and-eu-miscalculation?utm_source=freelist-f&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Gweekly&utm_campaign=20150707
The Greek Vote and the EU Miscalculation (https://www.stratfor.com/weekly/greek-vote-and-eu-miscalculation) is republished with permission of Stratfor.
There are three reasons this should have been no surprise. First, the ruling Coalition of the Radical Left, or Syriza party, is ruling because it has an understanding of the Greek mood. Second, the constant scorn and contempt that the European leadership heaped on the prime minister and finance minister convinced the Greeks not only that the scorn was meant for them as well but also that anyone so despised by the European leadership wasn't all bad. Finally, and most important, the European leadership put the Greek voters in a position in which they had nothing to lose. The Greeks were left to choose between two forms of devastation — one that was immediate but possible to recover from, and one that was a longer-term strangulation with no exit.
As the International Monetary Fund noted ..., the Greeks cannot repay their loans or escape from their economic nightmare without a substantial restructuring of the Greek debt, including significant debt forgiveness and a willingness to create a multidecade solution.
All of the austerity measures demanded would not have provided nearly enough money to repay debts without restructuring. In due course, Greece would default, or the debt would be restructured.
The problem of restructuring debt is once it is done for one country, others will want to restructure as well. The European Union did not want to set any precedents for future crises or anti-EU governments.
The European leaders miscalculated. They thought Greece could be more flexible, and they wanted to demonstrate to any other country or party that might consider a similar maneuver in the future just what the cost would be.
the Greeks were irresponsible borrowing money (https://www.stratfor.com/weekly/beyond-greek-impasse). But the rest of Europe was irresponsible in lending it. Indeed, the banks that lent the money knew perfectly well the condition Greece was in. The idea that the Greeks pulled the wool over the bankers' eyes is nonsense. The bankers wanted to make the loans because they made money off of transactions.
It is likely that the Europeans will continue discussions with Greece, but they will be playing with a much weaker hand. The Greek voters have, in effect, called their bluff.
The EU leadership was convinced that the Greeks were bluffing, while the Greeks knew ... they could not afford to bluff. But the Greeks also knew ... it would be possible to move beyond the crisis before the sense of embattlement dissolves.
If Greece withdraws from the European Union, its impact on the euro will be trivial.
Greece has three alternative sources of money. The first is Russia. The Greeks and the Russians have had a relationship going back to at least the 1970s. ... bailing out Greece would give Russia a golden opportunity to put a spoke in NATO operations and reassert itself somewhere other than Ukraine.
Another, though less likely, source of funds for Greece is China and some of its partners. The Chinese are trying to position themselves as a genuine global power, without a global military and with a weakening economy.
Finally, there are American hedge funds and private equity firms. They are cash-rich because of European, Chinese and Middle Eastern money searching for safety and are facing near-zero percent interest rates. Many of them have taken wilder risks than this.
Behind all this, the Germans are considering the future of the European Union. They are less concerned about the euro or Greek debt than they are about the free trade zone that absorbs part of their massive exports. With credit controls and default, Greece is one tiny market they lose. The last thing they want is for this to spread, or for Germany to be forced to pay for the privilege of saving it.
I've always felt the euro was a massive scam being used by French and German bankers to exert a level of control they've wanted over Europe since Charlemagne's empire crumbled centuries ago. Both the US and Greece need to implement austerity measures but they don't need to subject themselves to European socialism or hegemonies. Greece should never have left the drachma; Britain should not leave the pound. FWIW, we have a version of the French and German bankers in this country: they are called Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan and they have worked themselves sweetheart deals for the last 20+ years to the ruination of the country. Corzine and CGM are small potatoes compared to Goldman Sachs but their theft of client assets to repay debt to JP Morgan and the SEC's and CME's willingness to go along with that theft are collateral evidence of what's going on in our own borders.
Stay frosty -- as good advice for the financial world as the battlefield.
RblDiver
07-07-2015, 10:58
"I know, if we throw a tantrum and whine, then the EU will HAVE to send us more money! That's the ticket!"
So dumb. Yet, the sad thing I heard on the radio, technically our debt to GDP ratio is even worse! It's up to about 103%. Apparently under Bush it went up by like 15% or so, under Obama it's gone up like 35%.
Yet nothing's being done about the entitlement scams, ponzi scheme that is Social Security, etc.
Who bails the United States out? No one. FedGov continues to destroy the incentives for private business to succeed, it creates onerous rules (scotuscare) that business cannot compensate for, it continually adds to the tax burden of the citizens. FedGov is biting the hands that feed it. I fully expect FedGov to tax 401Ks, and all other privately held investments, the only thing I don't know is when, 20 years, 10 years, 5 years, who knows, all I can say is that FedGov will tax them and destroy the incentive to invest.
US National Debt Holders
http://useconomy.about.com/od/monetarypolicy/f/Who-Owns-US-National-Debt.htm
First they'll tax them, then they'll confiscate them. For a while now, the gov has had its eye on that massive pool of money just sitting there doing nothing.
Aloha_Shooter
07-07-2015, 11:23
One of the reasons I have never subscribed to the Roth IRA is that it depends on Congress keeping its word and not taxing the money in the future. Sorry, I'll take my tax deductions NOW thank you. I fully believe the very next step will be converting all Roth IRAs into regular IRAs, conveniently forgetting the Roths have already been taxed. After that, they'll implement taxes on IRA withdrawals for any purpose (not just early withdrawals) and then they'll confiscate them -- all in the name of fairness of course.
First they'll tax them, then they'll confiscate them. For a while now, the gov has had its eye on that massive pool of money just sitting there doing nothing.
Doing nothing. Riiiight. That's how it works. [Sarcasm2]
First they'll tax them, then they'll confiscate them. For a while now, the gov has had its eye on that massive pool of money just sitting there doing nothing.
Doing nothing. Riiiight. That's how it works. [Sarcasm2]
Every government has the same idea about OUR money....it is ALL theirs, they're just letting us use it until they want it.
Work harder, millions on welfare depend on you.
Great-Kazoo
07-08-2015, 07:41
My question is: Will our government be as forgiving when the spouse & I ask for a bail out. Will our mortgage co not start eviction process when we've failed to pay it over a 6 month period? [ROFL3]
BladesNBarrels
07-08-2015, 09:08
I fully expect FedGov to tax 401Ks
Both Federal and State (Colorado) already tax 401(k), 401(a), 457, 408 IRA tax-deferred accounts when you withdraw at ordinary income rates (must start withdrawing at age 70 1/2).
The early withdrawal before age 59 1/2 earns a "penalty" of 10% except for certain circumstances (Consult your tax advisor).
As national debt mounts up and revenues are uncertain, the path that Congress most commonly uses is increased taxation.
As an early Colorado Legislator stated, "No man nor his dog is safe when the Legislature is in session."
Both Federal and State (Colorado) already tax 401(k), 401(a), 457, 408 IRA tax-deferred accounts when you withdraw at ordinary income rates (must start withdrawing at age 70 1/2).
The early withdrawal before age 59 1/2 earns a "penalty" of 10% except for certain circumstances (Consult your tax advisor).
As national debt mounts up and revenues are uncertain, the path that Congress most commonly uses is increased taxation.
As an early Colorado Legislator stated, "No man nor his dog is safe when the Legislature is in session."
What I mean is the government will change the 401K from a tax-deferred account into a "we're gonna tax it NOW" kinda thing.
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