FTExtract?

[Robb]

Out to the range today and ol' Reliable let me down, huge. I picked up a battlepack of pmc ammo on the way. I can rack a round into the chamber and fire it and then I get a failure to extract, a 2nd round feed and of course a jam. I clear the jam and it happens again consistantly. Last time I had this rifle out it was flawless and always has been.

Nothing has changed with this firearm in years. I tried numerous mags today and the problem continued. The same mags worked well in other rifles today.
I pulled the bolt and nothing is broken, the extractor seems to have good tension, the hook or claw seems okay, carrier key seems fine.
What's up? Is a bolt rebuild on order? Will a new spring fix my problem, or is it something else?

Any help is appreciated.

59535

[SideShow Bob]

Is your bolt a bit bulged at the bottom edge of the extractor ? Or maybe just light & shadows playing a visual trick.
all I have to offer is " Go see Bert, Go see Bert, Go see Bert" ( sung to the Cal Worthington commercial tune ).

[kwando]

I see what slideshow is saying as well... Try a new BCG

[SideShow Bob]

That would be SideShow..........[LOL]

[kwando]

stoopid autocorrect

[Robb]

I see what your looking at with the 'bulged" bolt comment. I'll take a closer look in a bit.

[BPTactical]

"Nothings changed for years".....
Like the gas rings?
Clean the bolt and carrier. Reassemble it without any lubricant and extend the bolt fully. Set the BCG on the face of the bolt vertically. If the rings have sufficient tension the rings will support the weight of the carrier, if not the carrier will drop.
You state that this malady started with this particular lot of ammo, that would be the first suspect. I have seen more ammo related issues in the last couple of years.

[Robb]

Yes, sadly I've been bad with maintenance. The rifle has the original gas rings in it I'm sure. I'll do the bolt test tonight! Thanks for reminding me about that.
I picked up some PMC ammo on the way to shoot. It was only an issue in the rifle I'm referencing. 2 other rifles ran smoothly.

[BPTactical]

If the ammo was a tad weaker than what you were running and add weak gas rings to the mix.

[Robb]

Thanks Bert,
I'll order a few bolt rebuild kits & gas rings and try to refurb the bolt, never done it before! High time I learned how.

[Sawin]

Maybe i'm pointing out the elephant in the room, or maybe i'm just ignorant, but aren't both the description of the problem and the "bulge" on the bolt, pointing to the extractor? Perhaps it's just worn out... Obviously a new bolt or BCG would resolve it, but they wouldn't necessarily be required to fix it...

[Robb]

I wouldn't know. I guess I'll put a few new extractors in my order also.

[jerrymrc]

There is a reason I keep some SA surplus on hand. Years ago I tested some of the cheaper ammo just for fun and had a few that were not always 100%. I would check everything and it is always a good idea to have a sare parts kit on hand. The SA ammo is loaded hot so I know that if it will not cycle on that then there are issues. New rubbers and spring in the extractor will not hurt if the claw looks OK.

[Robb]

I wish I would have known the rifle had issues, I have a spare bolt at home. I probably won't head back to shoot for awhile so it'll remain a mystery for now. I'll get the parts ordered and report back after I try and do the repair.

[Delfuego]

Clean the bolt and carrier. Reassemble it without any lubricant and extend the bolt fully. Set the BCG on the face of the bolt vertically. If the rings have sufficient tension the rings will support the weight of the carrier, if not the carrier will drop.Easy to test this at home.

[Robb]

So I did the test and gas rings can barely hold up the carrier if I hold everything just right, so they're on the verge and will be replaced. The extractor also seems week compared to the spare bolt I have on hand so I'll get a few replacement springs. Extractor itself looks okay, should that be replaced just due to general maintenance? And what's the deal with this replacement "O" ring? Do you guys recommend those?

[BPTactical]

The o ring is a supplement to the extractor spring plus it acts as a buffer between the extractor and bolt so you don't hammer the extractor. Numerous sources market "extractor upgrade" kits that include a stiffer spring, revised buffer (the small rubber slug in the spring) and the O ring. Might as well upgrade your entire stable.
Rings are shot, you shouldn't have to hold the BCG "just so" for it to stay extended. Don't worry about the one piece rings or any hoopla, standard rings run just fine.
Both items are a normal wear and maintenance item.
Unless the extractor is chipped, cracked or bent they usually don't require replacement.

[Robb]

Thanks again Bert, I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge. I'll get some parts ordered.

[Danimal]

Deleted

[Robb]

I'm sure it's a combo of things. The gas rings are worn and the extractor doesn't SEEM have the tension on it that my spare bolt/extractor has so I'm sure that's the issue. Parts are on order! Probably won't go back to shoot for another month though.
Thanks everyone for all the replies.

[Robb]

Update.
Added a new spring, o-ring to the bolt, went out shooting and had the same issue with the same gun and a brand spanking new BCM rifle. Failure to completely extract and two rounds bound up in the chamber with both rifles. The odd thing is we also had a Frankenbuild with us that ran fine with no issues. We were shooting PMC battle packs initially. We changed over to some Federal and American Eagle and everything ran with ZERO issues.
So FWIW, although at least one rifle bolt did need to be freshened up, the main issue was the ammo. I did a little research and it seems others have had issues with PMC in some rifles.

[HoneyBadger]

"PMC battle packs" Is that the PMC Bronze stuff? Thanks for reporting back. I was curious how this one would turn out.

[Robb]

Sorry, I can't answer if it was the Bronze or not.
The ammo was in boxes that were sealed in a heavy plastic. If I remember correctly, Cabela's had two types of PMC battlepacks that looked the same but were stamped differently. One was "PMC .223" and the other was something like PMC-X. I don't remember "Bronze" being printed on anything. Obviously I didn't make a very informed purchase. Next time I'm at the store I'll l look again and try to figure out what I bought.

[SideShow Bob]

If it was the 55 gr. battle packs, the boxes in them should have been the PMC Bronze.
It is rated at 3200 FPS, and should have given enough gas pressure to run properly.
http://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm/1000-round-case-battle-packs-223-rem-pmc-55-grain-fmj-ammo-223abp

The PMC -X are the 62 gr. "Green Tip".

Was there any over pressure signs on the expended cases ?
Or maybe you got an under powder charged batch causing low operating gas pressure.

[HoneyBadger]

Sorry, I can't answer if it was the Bronze or not.
The ammo was in boxes that were sealed in a heavy plastic. If I remember correctly, Cabela's had two types of PMC battlepacks that looked the same but were stamped differently. One was "PMC .223" and the other was something like PMC-X. I don't remember "Bronze" being printed on anything. Obviously I didn't make a very informed purchase. Next time I'm at the store I'll l look again and try to figure out what I bought.
Thanks. I only ask because I have about 1800 rds of PMC X-Tac. I've fired about 200rds of it without issue in several rifles of different makes and configurations and it hasn't given me any issues, but it would be nice to know if I should expect problems.

Thanks again for the follow-up.

[Robb]

Yup, that's the stuff. That box looks very familiar now that I see a pic of it. I did buy the Bronze. No overpressure signs, I gathered it all up, tumbled and processed it already, the brass all looks good.

[HoneyBadger]

Yup, that's the stuff. That box looks very familiar now that I see a pic of it. I did buy the Bronze. No overpressure signs, I gathered it all up, tumbled and processed it already, the brass all looks good.
Yeah, I've had good success reloading the PMC X-Tac brass.