View Full Version : Trailer tongue weight and other ?'s..
So I bought a little 4x6 trailer from Big R for $450.. I needed something small just to haul two dirt bikes as well as I am limited on space to put it. I knew this trailer would need a few modifications and upgrades but the basic chassis and $$ point fit my budget and what I needed size wise. I know, champagne dreams on a PBR budget.
A few questions while I get to work on it..
1. I bought some bearing buddies and will be installing them tomorrow. Do you recommend completely removing the factory bearing grease and cleaning things up first or should it be ok to pop the bearing buddies on and fill them up?
2. With both the bikes loaded and strapped down the weight distribution/balance point is almost exactly on the axle meaning I can hold the tongue at hitch height with a single finger, if I bring it up onto the ball it almost starts to tip the other way. If I am reading things right I need 10-15% on the hitch? Based on the owners manuals bike 1 is 245lbs, bike 2 is 225lbs and the title for the trailer says 250lbs. I need roughly 80lbs on the hitch? Basically if I put the tongue down on a bathroom scale it should read 80lbs?
I need to build some tire chocks so maybe I will get some heavy 2 inch angle iron and hopefully that will get me a bit of weight as well as maybe picking up a spare tire holder and spare tire. I also have a heavy steel plate I could strap down as ballast.
Might be nice to eventually extend the tongue and put a gear box up front which would help with the weight issue as well.
3. Right now the axle is above the leaf springs. Based on the side view shot with the trailer hitched to my Jeep do you think I should move the axle under the leafs for some added height or does it look ok? This might be something I explore once I get out and use the thing to see if I have any clearance issue to begin with.
So far I found (as I guessed it would) that the wire mesh bottom isn't strong enough to hold the bikes so I just picked up some plywood and coated it with some Johnsons water seal and am bolting it down to the frame with carriage bolts.
Bikes loaded:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-80DrhUbQi3o/VcU6stMB2OI/AAAAAAAADQc/3Kod3zeG-i8/s800-Ic42/IMG_20150801_153910_492.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rhflf21tARA/VcU6s_sxiCI/AAAAAAAADQU/T-jWbZN_8vc/s800-Ic42/IMG_20150807_135045_278.jpg
Side shot:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yOCHRvyqARM/VcU6szlnXtI/AAAAAAAADQY/PJa-I53qvu4/s800-Ic42/IMG_20150807_141748_395.jpg
Adding plywood decking:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gN1fRUVCl0E/VcU6tIAfQbI/AAAAAAAADQg/e0VDgFY7BB8/s800-Ic42/IMG_20150807_155640_481.jpg
I think you're really overthinking things on the tongue weight. Just load the bikes and go.
I also wouldn't worry about swapping the axle to the bottom of the springs. If it doesn't sit level enough for you when you have it hooked up the make a huge variety of offsets for the ball mount that goes in the receiver. Just find one that sits at the right height.
I always thought a mesh bottom trailer would be nice for dirt bikes and ATVs. If you wanted to do away with the plywood you could always weld a couple of cross braces between the frame rails.
I wouldn't bother with the tire chicks for a couple of dirt bikes, but that's just me.
Heavier tongue weight will make it sway less. A drop hitch may help as well. Your going to need to drive it to see if it gets wiggly. If it does (especially downhill) add some tongue weight. If it doesn't your good to go.
A trailer that small isn't going to matter too much, but def want a little weight on the tongue. A spare tire and a few fuel cans will solve that. Having a trailer nose high/light will "wag the dog" but again, that much weight might not affect even your jeep.
Another option is to get someone to chop out a little front section and weld in an angled channel for the front tires to get them forward a bit more.
A trailer that small isn't going to matter
-that, right there. When you get some weight, it matters, -a couple of bikes on the back is going to be inconsequential. I towed a friends incorrectly loaded trailer this week that had about 5,000#s in it and it was sporty but two motorcycles could be towed behind a third.
You'll be fine. You wont need to extend the tongue if you get the right box
newracer
08-07-2015, 19:21
http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_25649.jpg
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-34-cu-ft-steel-trailer-tongue-box-62253.html
Thanks for the box link! Ok, mostly concerned that there is no weight at all on the tongue.. I'll drive it up to Nederland in the morning and do some riding to try it out as is. :)
I've got some more ideas that I might address over the winter such as adding a receiver hitch to the back to add another receiver hitch bike rack I have for an additional bike and so on..
As for the axle bearings.. Regrease or just leave whats there, add the bearing buddies and fill up?
HoneyBadger
08-07-2015, 21:06
It's always good to have some weight on the tongue.
Thanks for the box link! Ok, mostly concerned that there is no weight at all on the tongue.. I'll drive it up to Nederland in the morning and do some riding to try it out as is. :)
I've got some more ideas that I might address over the winter such as adding a receiver hitch to the back to add another receiver hitch bike rack I have for an additional bike and so on..
As for the axle bearings.. Regrease or just leave whats there, add the bearing buddies and fill up?
It was probably originally lubed with a Polyurea base conventional wheel bearing grease so just about anything else you're likely to get your hands on would be compatible.
That said, there are incompatibilities between greases (base-soap thickener materials) and some that should never be mixed. I'm kind of anal about the grease in my trailer's bearings and have thankfully never smoked a bearing - including watercraft/boat trailers which are as unforgiving to proper maintenance as heavy loads. Consider the intended use. If you're prone to drag that trailer through water, I would clean out all the old grease and use Marine grade wheel bearing grease now and forever.
http://www.etrailer.com/faq-grease.aspx
It's always good to have some weight on the tongue.
But not too much weight. Unless that's what your in to.
RonMexico
08-08-2015, 06:19
Great thread and thanks for the knowledge. I typically used cheap automotive bearing grease but now I will switch to LMX red in all my future bearing rebuild/lubes.
Great-Kazoo
08-08-2015, 08:29
As for the axle bearings.. Regrease or just leave whats there, add the bearing buddies and fill up?
IMO Bearing Buddies are for lazy people who are not mechanical. Going on a trip, time to lube the bearings, EVERY TIME THEY LEAVE THE DRIVEWAY!! One can and so often Over Lube. It does more damage than good (campers & trailers with brakes) especially.
If you're serious about maintenance you pull the hub, clean the bearings & race. Inspect them for pitting , discoloration etc. You also check the spindle. Then Hand or Mechanically repack them. New wheel seals, reinstall, tighten spindle nut to spec, slap a cotter pin through nut, pop the dust cover back and away you go.
Bearing buddies are for trailers that go in the water to launch a water craft. They're completely wasted on any other trailer and like kazoo said lead to damage by forcing too much grease and overflowing thru the rear hub seal.
OK, I know bearing buddies are not a replacement for regular maintenance. What I've read though is that it doesn't hurt to use them on these cheap trailers with small wheels.
Great-Kazoo
08-08-2015, 09:35
OK, I know bearing buddies are not a replacement for regular maintenance. What I've read though is that it doesn't hurt to use them on these cheap trailers with small wheels.
All the more reason to Inspect them. IMO (again) it's a matter of keeping up on maintenance. Better to know in you driveway the bearings are not up to snuff, than on Guanella Pass.
This thread does remind me I need to do a little maintenance on the wheel bearings on my trailer. Might have to make a note to do that when the weather cools off a bit.
Maybe I've read too many Harbor Freight trailer horror stories..
Maybe I've read too many Harbor Freight trailer horror stories..
Lol. My guess is even those crappy little trailers aren't that bad. It's more the retards assembling and using them.
Great-Kazoo
08-08-2015, 10:04
Maybe I've read too many Harbor Freight trailer horror stories..
Possibly. However there isn't much manufactured today, that ISN'T from China. Our HF trailer (4x8, w/13" tires) has been good for many a year, hauling more than 1 stacked deep load of firewood, stone, dirt etc.
newracer
08-08-2015, 11:04
My brand new trailer came with what is comparable to bearing buddies installed by the axle manufacturer.
OK, so the plywood shifted the balance point just enough that the trailer now rises up on it's own when I release the lever on the hitch.. :( So it rides with the tongue pulling up. I'm going to try loading the bikes backwards later this afternoon, that will probably put plenty of weight on the front but will make it tougher to load. Thinking of adding a set of eye bolts in the middle so that I can get the handlebar straps in line with each other.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5ETRUkjuvRs/VcZA_W3XsPI/AAAAAAAADQ4/NFlh8Qy5u1c/s800-Ic42/IMG_20150808_112942_804.jpg
I'm also going to either weld a piece of round stock to the outside edge of the trailer so the straps have something smoother to ride on or weld an extension off the bottom of the frame forward of the fender to bring the straps further out to the side to avoid touching the sides at all.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zqoWvjm_1dk/VcZA_RtNDxI/AAAAAAAADQ0/8KFGAYu0jYM/s800-Ic42/IMG_20150808_114033_985.jpg
Overall not a bad trailer for the $$.. I'll see how it holds up over time after driving on some rough roads and so on. Tractor Supply sells basically the same trailer for about the same price. This trailer is messed up in the fact that it is a drop bed/tilt trailer, however when you release the tongue to tilt the bed the end of the tongue under the bed pushes up on the metal grate. I noticed that the trailer at Tractor Supply has a cutout in the grating to account for this. Even though it's just made out of angle iron I don't know how anyone can make money on one of these at $450 when you look at the supplies and the labor involved..
IMO Bearing Buddies are for lazy people who are not mechanical. Going on a trip, time to lube the bearings, EVERY TIME THEY LEAVE THE DRIVEWAY!! One can and so often Over Lube. It does more damage than good (campers & trailers with brakes) especially.
If you're serious about maintenance you pull the hub, clean the bearings & race. Inspect them for pitting , discoloration etc. You also check the spindle. Then Hand or Mechanically repack them. New wheel seals, reinstall, tighten spindle nut to spec, slap a cotter pin through nut, pop the dust cover back and away you go.
You're entitled to your opinion. I agree with the rest of what you're saying, but not this. See below.
Bearing buddies are for trailers that go in the water to launch a water craft. They're completely wasted on any other trailer and like kazoo said lead to damage by forcing too much grease and overflowing thru the rear hub seal.
Agree WRT watercraft trailers or any trailer that might get submerged. However, proper bearing buddies are designed that excess grease comes out the weep assuming it's clear, not forced through the seals. They are designed to keep positive pressure on the grease inside and keep water out. SOME people tend to, like GK says, over-use them and that can, and will, lead to issues with anything running brakes. Like everything else, you need to know how to properly maintain and use your gear. My trailer axles, bearing, brakes get inspected/repacked yearly. The boat trailer (jetski trailer for 17 years) with bearing buddies gets enough fill to create that positive pressure then I keep an eye on it. Never back a hot trailer in the water...
OK, I know bearing buddies are not a replacement for regular maintenance. What I've read though is that it doesn't hurt to use them on these cheap trailers with small wheels.
...and carry a spare set of bearings...
P.S.
These are NOT proper bearing buddies. They're dust caps with a zerk. [Bang][pileoshit][facepalm]
60211
These are proper bearing buddies.
60212
or these
60213
USMC88-93
08-24-2015, 10:22
Just dont do what I did and bend the frame from too much tongue weight. (Had no alternative to move a trailer a "short distance" unfortunately) This was self caused and I am afraid to find out what the repair cost would be should it be easily repairable.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/PhotoTWB/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20150818_180006_zpsdnw2mpq0.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/PhotoTWB/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20150818_180006_zpsdnw2mpq0.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/PhotoTWB/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20150818_175830_zpshj0fclfj.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/PhotoTWB/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20150818_175830_zpshj0fclfj.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/PhotoTWB/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20150818_175628_zpseuwgs5pz.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/PhotoTWB/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20150818_175628_zpseuwgs5pz.jpg.html)
HoneyBadger
08-24-2015, 10:28
Dannnnnnnnggg! I've never seen that before. Major bummer.
Holy crap! How much overweight was it?
Wow, I hope you didn't do that on public roads.
newracer
08-24-2015, 11:38
To bend the frame and tub it had to be a lot of weight.
ruthabagah
08-24-2015, 11:40
To bend the frame and tub it had to be a lot of weight.
Yeah. What he said.
How much weight was that? I am just wondering, if the jeep already had some frame damage.
USMC88-93
08-24-2015, 11:58
typical 18 foot flat bed trailer with probably 3000+ pounds of stuff on it. But most of it towards the front and not weight balanced over the wheels.
SideShow Bob
08-24-2015, 16:55
All the more reason to Inspect them. IMO (again) it's a matter of keeping up on maintenance. Better to know in you driveway the bearings are not up to snuff, than on Guanella Pass.
This, I have a co-worker that had to take an extra week of vacation due to lack of maintenance on his RV, friction welded a rear axle bearing solid to the housing.
He is back now, but his RV is still in Kentucky...........
Great-Kazoo
08-24-2015, 21:25
This, I have a co-worker that had to take an extra week of vacation due to lack of maintenance on his RV, friction welded a rear axle bearing solid to the housing.
He is back now, but his RV is still in Kentucky...........
Is that the one thread going on arfcom?
Not mine.
Unlikely a maintenance issue. Undersized axles widely reported on this brand trailer. He got a 1.5x load replacement made in Albq after a $200 flat bed 60 mile tow to the lake.
https://www.ar-15.co/attachment.php?attachmentid=60538&d=1440476364
Other friend's comment after receiving a text. "That's a drag." [LOL]
$3.33/mi is a great deal for towing an RV.
Great-Kazoo
08-25-2015, 00:04
$3.33/mi is a great deal for towing an RV.
AND $25 in preventive maintenance / pre-trip insp might have caught it, before pulling out the driveway.
AND $25 in preventive maintenance / pre-trip insp might have caught it, before pulling out the driveway.
I should have added in the original post - BROKE AT SPINDLE WELD.
He never did find tire/wheel. Not sure how long he drug it behind 36' Class-A pusher but probably not too far consider the amount of frame material removed by the road.
$3.33/mi is a great deal for towing an RV.
Now that I think about it, I think he said $250. It was just the trailer. And Good Sam is picking up part of it per their rules to tow to closest "service destination."
Ahhh, $3.33 is still a decent rate for a tow.
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