Safeway purposly blocking emergency exits.

[th3w01f]

Let me know if I'm out of line here but this really pissed me off tonight.

I saw this tonight at the Highlands Ranch Safeway on Highlands Ranch Parkway and Broadway.
I asked the manager, how people were supposed to get out of the store if there was an emergency and he said "they can use the main doors", then I asked what they should do if the main doors were blocked and he said "call Safeway headquarters". He said those emergency exit latches don't do anything but sound an alarm and you'd still have to leave through another door.... is that true?

Hmmmm, I'm calling Safeway in the morning, but first I put in a call to the ...Fire Marshall, someone is supposed to call me back tomorrow.

Jonathan is actually in charge there tonight (I checked, his manager doesn't come in till 7am). Is it out of line to expect that a major emergency exit not be blocked by a bunch of carts? Does the fire department even care?


60279

[sniper7]

It's one more obstacle to keep the zombies out of the store, so there is always that!

[bryjcom]

I always thought those door alarms would open after 15 seconds or something like that. They obviously make different alarms but I find it hard to believe that those wouldn't open.

I used to do all the refrigeration at the Dominic's stores in Shitcago.(Same thing as safeway) and those alarms were in the back room and if I remember right they would let you out right away and alarm right away.

[Grant H.]

No, that's not out of line.

Those emergency crash bars had better open the door as well as sound the alarm, or else that Safeway will be in trouble...

[th3w01f]

It's one more obstacle to keep the zombies out of the store, so there is always that!

True, true... I hadn't even thought that this might be part of the anti zombie apocalypses policy. :)

[th3w01f]

I always thought those door alarms would open after 15 seconds or something like that. They obviously make different alarms but I find it hard to believe that those wouldn't open.

I used to do all the refrigeration at the Dominic's stores in Shitcago.(Same thing as safeway) and those alarms were in the back room and if I remember right they would let you out right away and alarm right away.

I asked him that exact same question and he said no one is getting out those doors and if I didn't like it to call Safeway. When I asked his name he tried to turn away but luckily he had on a nice big badge.

[ray1970]

I say bust their balls. Putting the carts in the way of a potential emergency exit is stupid. This kind of stuff really gets my goat. Along with storing stuff on stairs and landings or blocking access to fire extinguishers or whatever.

[th3w01f]

If anyone is bored I'm sure Jonathan would love to give his side of the story - (303) 683-1983

[WETWRKS]

He said those emergency exit latches don't do anything but sound an alarm and you'd still have to leave through another door.... is that true?60279

Even if the doors don't open with the exit latch...they should still never be blocked. And keep in mind that in an actual emergency I doubt they are bullet proof...just saying...

[th3w01f]

Even if the doors don't open with the exit latch...they should still never be blocked. And keep in mind that in an actual emergency I doubt they are bullet proof...just saying...

I had the exact same thought but I figured I didn't have that much time to spend with our fine Sheriffs Dept. tonight.

[rondog]

That shit won't fly at Home Depot, blocking emergency exits is a serious no-no.

[th3w01f]

That shit won't fly at Home Depot, blocking emergency exits is a serious no-no.

I'm very curious what the main manager and the Fire Dept will have to say about it.

[hurley842002]

I'm very curious what the main manager and the Fire Dept will have to say about it.

I'm guessing the issue is more serious than Jonathan would have anyone believe.

[Irving]

I HATE Jonathan!

[Great-Kazoo]

I HATE Jonathan!

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/c2/c2866cd7f1e38391b6be4a6ce59155cc813fe4e0c21ef1c08b a4a8023c8774db.jpg

[buffalobo]

Drop an email on the local "news" channels "tip" line.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[bigshane]

Maybe Great White is scheduled to play there.

[dirtrulz]

If they have the latch bypassed so the emergency bars dont open the doors they are in for a serious fine. Many departments will be giving them fines also, not just the fire marshal.

[Ramsker]

That's right down the street from us. They lock those doors (or I guess turn off the automated opener) after a certain point in the evening and they drive everything through the main doors. That HAS to be a fire code violation to block those doors like that. But I avoid that particular store as much as possible because they always seem to be priced higher than King Soopers and they also have a habit of turning off the self-checkout lanes at night and force you to stand in line to buy a handful of things.

But not out of line at all to raise a red flag about blocking that door. There's a fire station right around the corner . . . might be worth paying them a visit and tipping them off to send someone over for an inspection if they know around what time those doors get blocked.

Those types of alarms should open the door and just signal an alarm right there at the door . . . they look like the same type of alarm we had in a restaurant I managed. The alarm would sound if someone went out and you had to just shut it off with a key. Safeway probably had people going out after that turned off the doors and the managers probably got tired of having to shut off the alarm. So they decided it was a good idea to block the exit.

[Irving]

I feel like I've seen several stores do this over the years.

[CapLock]

I bet it has to do with shoplifting. My moms friend was at a bbq of ours. She is a safe way employee and you wouldn't belive the shit she said. Safe way is losing tens of thousands and won't hire fuckin security. It's so bad they call them rabbits. People put lots of meat face down in the cart. I guess this helps with some kind detection of the bar codes as they run out. She told me several stories of having push wars with men stealing carts of food. She's gone as far as the back and side of store to take shit back. I told her she needs to not risk her life for safe way. She gets paid to ring up fuckin groceries.
One of the times she grabs a backpack that this chick was really swinging the shit out of walking in. Talking full loops here lol. On the way out she walks past the registers and is almost dragging the damn thing. She goes over and physically stops the lady. Cops are called. She said the cops refused to do anything and let her go.
Safe way is loosing lots of money and won't spend any for security because theft lose is a write off. Your safety in case of fire is less important than a cart of groceries, that was less important than a 12 dollar per our security guard in the first place.

[Big E3]

Can you say "Coconut Grove Fire"? That's the reason all exit doors are now supposed to open outward. Every time I encounter a door of a public business that opens inward, it drives me crazy. In an emergency everybody runs to the doors and if they don't open or open inward your stuck with bodies forced against you and nonfunctioning doors. Fire marshals are usually very concerned with exit issues. Those doors with alarms must open when tripped. The alarm is just notification that they are open. Why do they block exit doors in Highlands Ranch? Is that the new Montebello?

You won't have to shop at Safeway much longer, every since Albertson's bought them they keep closing stores. With Albertson's killing their competition, I bet King's (Kroger) feels like they hit the lottery.

[CapLock]

Next time it gets long winded I'll use paragraphs.

[Martinjmpr]

I feel like I've seen several stores do this over the years.

Yup, the KS in Englewood on Broadway and Floyd does the same thing. At 7pm the "second" door is locked and usually blocked with grocery carts. It doesn't even have emergency push bars AFAIK because it's a sliding door, not a hinged door.

Funny thing is, that KS does have a security guard.

I had never thought about the fire exit implications until now but it does seem wrong to deliberately block a potential fire exit. I wonder if the number of fire exits required is linked to the number of people they have in the store and they can get away with this by saying "after 7pm we don't have more than XX people in the store so we only need one exit?"

[68Charger]

Yup, the KS in Englewood on Broadway and Floyd does the same thing. At 7pm the "second" door is locked and usually blocked with grocery carts. It doesn't even have emergency push bars AFAIK because it's a sliding door, not a hinged door.


Keep in mind that commercial automatic sliding doors WILL open if you push hard enough on them when closed...(look for the hinges on the side, they're just latched to the track normally) they are also an emergency exit.

This is also done so you're not trapped in a power outage.

[Wulf202]

Nope. Because the signs are still directing traffic to the now blocked exits. This is a major no no

[KS63]

From the OP's first post, it sounds as if Johnny acquired an attitude problem. Definetly against Fire code and the general manager should be notified of the infraction and Johnny's shitty attitude.

[Monky]

WAAAAAAYYYY back in HS when I worked at the local grocery store, which was a 24 hour joint.. we would block one entrance off at night. The reason being so we could see who was coming 'in and out'. The store is less populated at night and a far greater target.. I had a few of the night shifts and the amount of cash at night was steady.. they'd do a drop every few hours of so, and it was an adventure. This was long ago though before debit cards were popular. So it was all cash and check.

[rondog]

You know, come to think of it, the Wal-Mart in Parker closes off the western set of entrance doors after a certain time, and blocks them with carts too.

[blacklabel]

You know, come to think of it, the Wal-Mart in Parker closes off the western set of entrance doors after a certain time, and blocks them with carts too.

Both of the Wal-Marts in Greeley do this but I haven't noticed any carts blocking the entrances.

[RonMexico]

I bet it has to do with shoplifting. My moms friend was at a bbq of ours. She is a safe way employee and you wouldn't belive the shit she said. Safe way is losing tens of thousands and won't hire fuckin security. It's so bad they call them rabbits. People put lots of meat face down in the cart. I guess this helps with some kind detection of the bar codes as they run out. She told me several stories of having push wars with men stealing carts of food. She's gone as far as the back and side of store to take shit back. I told her she needs to not risk her life for safe way. She gets paid to ring up fuckin groceries.
One of the times she grabs a backpack that this chick was really swinging the shit out of walking in. Talking full loops here lol. On the way out she walks past the registers and is almost dragging the damn thing. She goes over and physically stops the lady. Cops are called. She said the cops refused to do anything and let her go.
Safe way is loosing lots of money and won't spend any for security because theft lose is a write off. Your safety in case of fire is less important than a cart of groceries, that was less important than a 12 dollar per our security guard in the first place.


Bingo.... Kinda

I've heard rumors of this Safeway supplying Hs parties [Beer], the beer isle is located close to those doors.

I worked retail ane we had several "push outs", one guy told the cops "he was going to his car" with $2800 worth of merchandise "to grab his wallet, so he could pay"

[<MADDOG>]

I don't have my IBC or IFC in front of me, but once that sign "exit" goes above a door, it turns into a fire code issue with egress.

Call your local fire marshall, ask to speak to the code enforcement division. They may have permission to do it, but I doubt it.

[cmailliard]

The very simple answer is if there is an exit sign or the door is marked as an exit it must maintained and accessible as an exit. When you push on the bars or whatever the should open (they are called panic bars, for a reason). The ones on those doors have horns attached to them, but they should still open outward for egress. In hospitals if you look many fire doors are marked with "to open press and hold for 15 seconds door will open" this overrides the mag lock on those doors.

This picture here would warrent a trip by the Fire Marshal, now they won't come out at night but with pictures that can help. The Fire Marshal can cite them but they would most likely get a warning to start with. Report it to the fire department (Littleton Fire Rescue)

[sroz]

So did you call Safeway this morning? And did the Fire Marshall ever call you back?

[th3w01f]

Spoke with enforcement for Littleton today and he said he'd swing by there tonight or tomorrow to see what's up.

He said it's kind of a grey area since they're only required to have one exit.

[Irving]

Spoke with enforcement for Littleton today and he said he'd swing by there tonight or tomorrow to see what's up.

He said it's kind of a grey area since they're only required to have one exit.

So you said, "Just like the grey area that will be the flesh and organs turned to ash, of the victims who thought they could actually survive that fire by following the posted EXIT signs?" Careful how you word that though, don't want to sound like a threat. [Flower]

[ZERO THEORY]

Let's say a small fire breaks out near the front of the store. Worth noting is the pressurized air coming from the cooling/heating grate in the floor at the entrance. So you've got flames and they meet with the pressurized air. I'm not a firefighter and don't know enough about fire dynamics, but I would imagine that high-flow oxygen (albeit not pure) combined with flames is bad news.

So the front doors are now blocked by a flashover wave of flames. Which means that the old lady who just had her hip replaced, the obese woman in the motorized cart, and the petite woman who has her 8 year old in tow now have to either move or maneuver over/around two dozen shopping carts blocking the emergency exit. Brilliant.

[Circuits]

So the front doors are now blocked by a flashover wave of flames. Which means that the old lady who just had her hip replaced, the obese woman in the motorized cart, and the petite woman who has her 8 year old in tow now have to either move or maneuver over/around two dozen shopping carts blocking the emergency exit. Brilliant.
I mean... as long as nothing was stolen, right?

[th3w01f]

Let's say a small fire breaks out near the front of the store. Worth noting is the pressurized air coming from the cooling/heating grate in the floor at the entrance. So you've got flames and they meet with the pressurized air. I'm not a firefighter and don't know enough about fire dynamics, but I would imagine that high-flow oxygen (albeit not pure) combined with flames is bad news.

So the front doors are now blocked by a flashover wave of flames. Which means that the old lady who just had her hip replaced, the obese woman in the motorized cart, and the petite woman who has her 8 year old in tow now have to either move or maneuver over/around two dozen shopping carts blocking the emergency exit. Brilliant.


That's similar (but way more in-depth) to the scenario I posed to the Fire Inspector. His initial response was something along the lines of "you could move the carts right" and I said "yes I could move them but I'm pretty sure a pregnant woman, elderly person, child or someone in a wheelchair couldn't in an emergency." That's when he agreed that he'd check it out, I offered to send the picture but he said it wasn't necessary. I'm going to swing by the store again when I get back in town.

I spoke with another manager there and they gave me the same "HQ policy" crap. I have a call into corporate but I haven't heard back from them.

My response to the manager was that I think someone would be much more likely to try and sneak out the front doors than stand there with their hand on the f-ing alarm for 15 seconds waiting to get out.

[rbeau30]

What I am concerned with is the expectation the store management has... that the employees (now thrust in between a shoplifter that may fight to get out the door) are willing to actively prevent a shoplifter from getting outside the store, by intentionally funneling potentially violent shoplifter/perps through their employees.

[TheSparkens]

This is not a delayed egress door. In a emergency this door should open as soon as you push through and not only the fire marshal but the ADA should have a field day with this and if someone from South Metro or Littleton FD doesn't get a hold of you I would file a complaint. This is note just a Code Problem it is the law not to block an Emergency Exit. Delayed egress doors not only work with a 15 second delay and alarm for security but must release upon any fire alarm activation immediately, and be wheel chair accessible without obstructions if it is not a required egress path then the exit sign must be removed if it is not removed then it becomes a required egress path as to not cause confusion during an emergency.

[kidicarus13]

This is not a delayed egress door. In a emergency this door should open as soon as you push through and not only the fire marshal but the ADA should have a field day with this and if someone from South Metro or Littleton FD doesn't get a hold of you I would file a complaint. This is note just a Code Problem it is the law not to block an Emergency Exit. Delayed egress doors not only work with a 15 second delay and alarm for security but must release upon any fire alarm activation immediately, and be wheel chair accessible without obstructions if it is not a required egress path then the exit sign must be removed if it is not removed then it becomes a required egress path as to not cause confusion during an emergency.

Sounds like the most knowledgeable person to reply thus far.

[spqrzilla]

I'm pretty sensitive about this kind of crap because in 1984, John Orr, a fire investigator for Glendale FD and serial arsonist, set fire to a hardware store in Pasadena California. My closest friends were literally the last two people to get out alive. Four died in the store including a child.

So I always know where the exits are.

[th3w01f]

Just got a call back from the District Manger, he said he has been in contact with store management and not only will they not be blocking exits with carts, they will also not be locking the 2nd set of doors at 8pm. He was very professional and apologetic and said the management issues will be dealt with as well.

[Sawin]

Just got a call back from the District Manger, he said he has been in contact with store management and not only will they not be blocking exits with carts, they will also not be locking the 2nd set of doors at 8pm. He was very professional and apologetic and said the management issues will be dealt with as well.

Good news and nicely done. You made a positive impact on the world around you when thousands turned a blind eye. I hope they follow through with those actions.

[OtterbatHellcat]

Yeah, that's cool. Nice job.

[ray1970]

Just got a call back from the District Manger, he said he has been in contact with store management and not only will they not be blocking exits with carts, they will also not be locking the 2nd set of doors at 8pm. He was very professional and apologetic and said the management issues will be dealt with as well.

Glad to hear the outcome. Hopefully Johnathan will be working on his resume soon. Lol.

[RonMexico]

This thread isn't about public safety, the fire station is less than 1/4 mile away & the sheriff dept is 300meters across the street. I can't recall a business burning down in the 21 years years I lived there but congratulations on wasting people's time. HR will always be home, yet its people like you who complain about everything that makes me never won't to move back there.

[th3w01f]

This thread isn't about public safety, the fire station is less than 1/4 mile away & the sheriff dept is 300meters across the street. I can't recall a business burning down in the 21 years years I lived there but congratulations on wasting people's time. HR will always be home, yet its people like you who complain about everything that makes me never won't to move back there.

Wow Ron, you're a dick.... while I agree that the Safeway probably won't burn down, neither will 99.99% of other stores so I guess all those emergency exits are a waste of time. You may not mind when a store blatantly disregards safety and store management treats customers like crap but I expect more.


people like you who complain about everything

This just made me laugh, you're little bitch session shows you're WAY more prone to complaining than I'll ever be.

[hurley842002]

IBTL

[ray1970]

This thread isn't about public safety, the fire station is less than 1/4 mile away & the sheriff dept is 300meters across the street. I can't recall a business burning down in the 21 years years I lived there but congratulations on wasting people's time. HR will always be home, yet its people like you who complain about everything that makes me never won't to move back there.

Dude, seriously?
[facepalm]


I applaud the OP for not only noticing a potential safety issue but taking the time and putting forth some effort to get the issue corrected.

[RonMexico]

Wow Ron, you're a dick...
This just made me laugh, you're little bitch session shows you're WAY more prone to complaining than I'll ever be.
I've had a few ex-GF tell me ^^^ this before.
Bro,
Fire/LE, corporate HQ and others you have voiced your concerns with have more pressing issues to address with their limited time but I am sorry you had your feeling hurt when you initial talked with the store management team. The two Kings in town have a better selection and cheaper prices, I would spend my money there and the problem is fixed.

[th3w01f]

I've had a few ex-GF tell me ^^^ this before.
Bro,
Fire/LE, corporate HQ and others you have voiced your concerns with have more pressing issues to address with their limited time but I am sorry you had your feeling hurt when you initial talked with the store management team. The two Kings in town have a better selection and cheaper prices, I would spend my money there and the problem is fixed.

Agreed about the Kings but I spent 5 min on the phone with the Fire inspector and 5 with Safeway HQ, didn't' talk to LE. I don't think I wasted their time since I'm pretty sure the work they had to do is right in their job descriptions.

You are correct that if the first manager had been more professional and dealt with the issue, I would have dropped it. According to the District Mgr the particular guy I had issues with was already being watched due to other problems.

[kidicarus13]

yet its people like you who complain about everything that makes me never won't to move back there.

Because people in NC don't complain ...well except for you.

[RonMexico]

Because people in NC don't complain ...well except for you.
People complain all the time here as most of these people are suck the military&obamas tits. I don't see how I was complaining? I think I disagree with the op as he was complaining about a blocked fire exit?

[buffalobo]

Issue addressed, thread done, too bad we had to show our asses in the process.