View Full Version : 6.5CM vs .308 as it pertains to this forum
muddywings
08-12-2015, 15:06
So, I'll be looking to get a precision rifle in the next year as I am lacking in that department. Mostly a steel plinker, maybe a random hunting rifle with some buddies (don't tell the wife) and maybe a PR match here or there just for giggles (probably more the wife than me).
So the question comes up-which caliber?
While it looks like 6.5CM is superior in most ways over .308, I'm wondering which is the better option as it pertains to this forum.
Throw me the pros/cons for 6.5CM vs .308
Additional factors:
I am a novice reloader but with a nice setup in both 9 and 223. I would like to reload the rounds for cheap(er)
The next gun for the stable will be an AR-10 and probably want them chambered the same for ease of dealing with ammo
I will be getting a suppressor, as I haven't done and stamp collecting in a while, that would go between the AR-10 and the PR platform.
Lastly-life keeps getting in the way of fun toys so I'm looking at a solid year to slowly save/buy the rifle and scope with another few months for the suppressor.
Zombie Steve
08-12-2015, 16:31
As it pertains to S&P I think sheer availability of 30 caliber components and 308 brass would make it easier to buy cheap(er) and stack deep. That, and the selection of tough construction hunting bullets in 6.5 is limited in comparison, but not prohibitively so.
If you're loading your own, either one is fair game. As I stated in another thread, I prefer a heavier bullet for hunting, but it sounds like the majority of your use would be target, so I'd think the 6.5 would have an edge.
Pick the one you think is cooler - you'll shoot it more.
HoneyBadger
08-12-2015, 17:46
I would go .308 for for availability of parts, ammo, reloading components, etc. It is readily available for a decent price (which will allow and encourage you to shoot more and store more). Especially when you consider S & P, many other folks will have .308 guns but I doubt many, if any, will have 6.5CM guns. Choosing 6.5CM for a survival situation would severely limit your ammo scrounging potential
My vote is .308. Availability of scavengable components.
#1 reason why I standardized all of the family's carry and SHTF "duty" cartridges.
.308 isn't in my plan, but if I had a plan for long range targets other than escape-and-evade that would be my choice.
Preparedness wise, or for those of us on a tight budget, 308 all the way.
Delfuego
08-12-2015, 22:39
Shoot a 6.5 and you'll never want another 308 again :) Better in every way...
I wonder the same things, but have a 6.5 and no .308. I can't think of many practical uses for a heavy precision rifle, so I figure I'm good to go at any time with components and loaded ammo I have on hand.
Ammo that shoots great in a bolt gun is unlikely to shoot well in an AR and vice versa. Hoping for common ammo is likely too much to ask unless you're willing to settle for marginal performance from one gun or the other.
Great-Kazoo
08-13-2015, 07:54
One should buy what one can afford. Right down to components and or enough ammo to have 1-5K. Depending if you're going to get in to LD / Precision , or have enough of what one feels comfortable with.
IMO any firearm (for personal use, PD, etc) should have a minimum of 1K per. You LD / Precision folks 1K is what , a good start ;)
Also for the OP, remember what ever caliber you pick, it's only as good as the glass you put on it.
muddywings
08-13-2015, 09:08
Pick the one you think is cooler - you'll shoot it more.
excellent point!
oh, so conflicted...Harvey Dent where are you!?
If you already have a .308 precision gun - then buy a 6.5.
If you don't have either, buy both.
muddywings
08-13-2015, 12:54
If you already have a .308 precision gun - then buy a 6.5.
If you don't have either, buy both.
front me?
front me?
It really depends on what you are going to do with it. If its a sporting gun to go win matches at 600+ yards then go with the 6.5-284, the ballistics are far better than a .308 at range; but it comes with serious availability problems for components. But set-up correctly it is a fantastic shooting round. Just make sure you have a 1000 yard range around otherwise its dumb.
If you want a general purpose gun that you can also take to matches then get the .308 for all the reasons everyone mentioned above. You aren't going to take your 6.5 hunting. ;)
Zombie Steve
08-13-2015, 14:06
It really depends on what you are going to do with it. If its a sporting gun to go win matches at 600+ yards then go with the 6.5-284, the ballistics are far better than a .308 at range; but it comes with serious availability problems for components. But set-up correctly it is a fantastic shooting round. Just make sure you have a 1000 yard range around otherwise its dumb.
If you want a general purpose gun that you can also take to matches then get the .308 for all the reasons everyone mentioned above. You aren't going to take your 6.5 hunting. ;)
With 6.5-284, start saving for a replacement barrel right away. [Coffee]
muddywings
08-13-2015, 14:23
It really depends on what you are going to do with it. If its a sporting gun to go win matches at 600+ yards then go with the 6.5-284, the ballistics are far better than a .308 at range; but it comes with serious availability problems for components. But set-up correctly it is a fantastic shooting round. Just make sure you have a 1000 yard range around otherwise its dumb.
If you want a general purpose gun that you can also take to matches then get the .308 for all the reasons everyone mentioned above. You aren't going to take your 6.5 hunting. ;)
Thanks for the additional info. But by "front me" I was hoping you would 'loan' me the cash to "get both" ;)
Great-Kazoo
08-13-2015, 15:00
Thanks for the additional info. But by "front me" I was hoping you would 'loan' me the cash to "get both" ;)
Who do i know that offers Financing , mmm ? ? ?
6.5-284 is not a great choice unless you're made of money. It's a barrel burner.
Speaking of barrel life, .308 is going to be at least double that of 6.5CM. Maybe closer to triple. Figure 2,000+ for 6.5 and lots more for .308. Those are VERY approximate numbers.
When you figure a barrel will cost you $600 to purchase and install, it's a very significant factor in real world cost per shot.
To me, the ballistic advantages of the 6.5 outweigh all the pros of a .308. For my money, I'd buy a 6.5, shoot the crap out of it, and then decide if you really need or want a .308. For me the answer was, and still is, "no".
RonMexico
08-14-2015, 14:34
Great thread and I'm debating switching myself. I think I'll be able to sell my 308 barrels, ammo and reloading supplies for a 10/15% loss but it's not a big deal if I am getting a better caliber. If youre worried about bugging out and carrying weight in an ar10 platform, the 6.5 load out will weight considerable less and you will be able to carry a few more 20/25 rd mags for the same weight.
RonMexico
08-14-2015, 14:38
When you figure a barrel will cost you $600 to purchase and install, it's a very significant factor in real world cost per shot.
For my savages a barrel will run- $150/350 and the ar10 barrel will cost $275. With the Ruger Precision rifle, $600 will almost get you a new rifle and with the ar10 style barrel nut, hopefully it's cheap to change a barrel.
As it pertains to this forum?
The 308 is a no-brainier.
Although, for me at least, a precision type rifle wouldn't even cross my mind for a "survival and preparedness" situation.
I did the opposite , get a .308 , get all your supplies cheap and shoot the crap out of it. If you feel you want to change it up throw a new barrel on it and sell your .308 supplies to someone that went the same route you did. It really depends on your overall purpose of the rifle.
As it pertains to this forum?
The 308 is a no-brainier.
+1
6.5cm is not a stock item in most gun shops let alone pass the Wal-Mart test
Great thread and I'm debating switching myself. I think I'll be able to sell my 308 barrels, ammo and reloading supplies for a 10/15% loss but it's not a big deal if I am getting a better caliber. If youre worried about bugging out and carrying weight in an ar10 platform, the 6.5 load out will weight considerable less and you will be able to carry a few more 20/25 rd mags for the same weight.
This is the first argument for 6.5 that has addressed the ops question. Nice job with the weight factor. I'd like both. But I'll be stuck in 308 unless I win the lotto.
HoneyBadger
08-14-2015, 20:32
This is the first argument for 6.5 that has addressed the ops question. Nice job with the weight factor. I'd like both. But I'll be stuck in 308 unless I win the lotto.
The "ops question" is why I would stick to 5.56 and/or .22LR. and 9mm
The "ops question" is why I would stick to 5.56 and/or .22LR. and 9mm
Exactly. .223 ammo is almost exactly half the weight of .308.
Heavy precision rifles make no sense if you're concerned about bugging out on foot.
I wasn't saying it was the right answer. I was saying that the weight is a factor in a survival situation.
Its an ar15 forum. Of course we should stack 223 and 22 deep. But... What if there is a precision rifle championship in the desert at teotwawki. You know, like in z-nation.
XC700116
08-14-2015, 22:57
IMO any firearm (for personal use, PD, etc) should have a minimum of 1K per. You LD / Precision folks 1K is what , a good start ;)
Pretty much, I ran 3300 rounds through my 260 in just over a year and had to put the new barrel on it. I'm slowly but surely building up my components stock to coincide with barrel life. For instance I like to have enough bullets, powder and primers for a given LR rifle to last the life of the barrel I have on it. I also buy at least 2 barrels at a time for them so that the smith can spin up both at the same time and I have a spare in the safe ready to go when one heads south. This is geared toward my competition schedule and never being without a broken in and ready to shoot rifle.
But for a SHTF scenario, the same mindset applies in reality. If you have enough ammo/components to last the life of the barrel on your rifle, you don't really have to worry about ammo after that because chances are you aren't going to be wasting ammo, nor rebarreling your rifle in such a scenario.
Depending on your setup, scenario, and whatnot, the LR rifle really falls into a nice to have category vs a need to have category. In all honesty, a GOOD precision oriented AR with plenty of good LR ammo is a much more versatile weapon. The barrel lasts FAR longer, the ammo is cheaper, lighter, and easier to stockpile and carry, and if things go south you can shoot any old 55 gr FMJ's through it. I've shot plenty of 10 and 12" steel at ranges beyond 700 yds with my 223 wylde chambered home built AR15 with good handloads and after being around a couple JP AR's I've found they are more than capable of both run and gun shooting and LR precision shooting if the guy behind it does his part.
I have a LOT of $$ tied up in my LR rigs but it's the class of shooting sports I compete in. That said all my SHTF stock is 223 AR stuff, pistol, and shotgun, put food on the table and defend yourself. Playing sniper is pretty low on the list of priority in the big picture. The one BIG benefit to it is proficiency and putting food on the table when needed without needing to get close to game or putting more than 1 round in an animal to put it down.
That said, to the OP's question, if you stock up enough ammo to last the life of the barrel (figure 3000-3500 on 6.5 CM and 5-6000 for the 308) pick your poison I can tell you that in bulk the 6.5 CM match quality ammo is going to be slightly cheaper than comparable 308 ammo by about $2/box of 20 the 6.5 is far cheaper over the life of a single barrel. However the reality of putting anything more than a couple hundred down the barrel of a precision rifle in a survival situation is pretty slim, so I'd say if your other stuff is already in good stock, go 6.5 CM simply because it does most everything long range better than a 308 does it.
As to hunting, I'll take a good shooting 6.5 over a 308 any day of the week for putting food on the table. When it comes to that I'm not out looking for a Grizzly bear (and if I was hunting one of them it sure as hell won't be with a 308), and I'll take the ballistic advantages and precision I get from a 6.5 for putting down any game animals in CONUS over a 308 any day (it's far more about placement than horsepower and the 6.5 makes that easier). That said my primary hunting rifle is a 7mm WSM and that will get it done on ANY game animal I'll ever encounter, especially one that I want to eat.
And Shawn was either drunk or bored but either way that pretty much ends the thread I think haha
XC700116
08-15-2015, 13:10
And Shawn was either drunk or bored but either way that pretty much ends the thread I think haha
Both actually hahahahaha
HoneyBadger
08-15-2015, 15:03
Heavy precision rifles make no sense if you're concerned about bugging out on foot.
BUT, if you're no going anywhere, OR you have a defensible area with good visibility, maybe that precision rifle is exactly the tool you need! Every situation is different. If the world was ending, I would love to be in a situation where I can enforce a standoff distance of 600+yds. I would also love to never have to point a gun at anyone, ever. Both of those things will likely be outside of my control.
Seems to me that if you're into long range precision, then hunting with lighter projectile should be a wash since presumably your skill level would be higher.
Seems to me that if you're into long range precision, then hunting with lighter projectile should be a wash since presumably your skill level would be higher.
One might hope that's the case, but when looking through a scope at game, especially big game, you're undoubtedly going to have increased shakiness from adrenaline and higher heart rate, more so than when shooting at silhouette's or paper. Then there's also the angle of your shot to consider. Most rifle ranges shoot on a pretty flat horizontal plane, but hunting scenarios can pose some pretty wide shot angles that do affect point of impact.
I've always wondered how adequate LR shooting is for training for hunting.
I've hunted with guys who aren't great target shooters, but have great instincts and shoot straight when it matters. It's a different skill set for sure, but if a guy practices with his rifle it can't hurt.
I've hunted with guys who aren't great target shooters, but have great instincts and shoot straight when it matters. It's a different skill set for sure, but if a guy practices with his rifle it can't hurt.
Agreed. LR shooting IS good training for hunting, if only to ensure consistency with cheek weld, trigger control, breathing, range calculation, etc. All of those things matter... but LR shooting does not provide the same internal/physiological response that hunting does. Any kind of practice makes you better... but practice while hunting is a misnomer unless of course you're bird hunting, or shooting hogs from helicopters in TX ;)
I've hunted with guys who aren't great target shooters, but have great instincts and shoot straight when it matters. It's a different skill set for sure, but if a guy practices with his rifle it can't hurt.
Agreed. LR shooting IS good training for hunting, if only to ensure consistency with cheek weld, trigger control, breathing, range calculation, etc. All of those things matter... but LR shooting does not provide the same internal/physiological response that hunting does. Any kind of practice makes you better... but practice while hunting is a misnomer unless of course you're bird hunting, or shooting hogs from helicopters in TX ;)
Back on topic, I have recently considered building a 6.5CM silhouette rifle, but cannot sufficiently justify it yet... I have a .308 and need to spend more time behind it before I feel like I've "grown out of it". Having more $ saved would help too...
Delfuego
08-19-2015, 09:16
Sawin, You need to come to the Raton Sporting Rifle Match or other matches like it and and then re-evaluate what you consider LR shooting.
We often will shoot a 17lb rifle off of sticks, from a ledge, across a valley, in 10+mph winds, at 6-10" targets, at distances of 400-600y yards. All while on a timer.
Let's see is 5% of you average hunter can do that.
Back to the topic at hand: Yes 6.5 is still better in every way.
Sawin, You need to come to the Raton Sporting Rifle Match or other matches like it and and then re-evaluate what you consider LR shooting.
We often will shoot a 17lb rifle off of sticks, from a ledge, across a valley, in 10+mph winds, at 6-10" targets, at distances of 400-600y yards. All while on a timer.
Let's see is 5% of you average hunter can do that.
Back to the topic at hand: Yes 6.5 is still better in every way.
Except that ammo and components will be unavailable. If your foraging you may find a tin of steel cased 308 in a basement, very unlikely to find 6.5 in any quantity.
Sawin, You need to come to the Raton Sporting Rifle Match or other matches like it and and then re-evaluate what you consider LR shooting.
We often will shoot a 17lb rifle off of sticks, from a ledge, across a valley, in 10+mph winds, at 6-10" targets, at distances of 400-600y yards. All while on a timer.
Let's see is 5% of you average hunter can do that.
Back to the topic at hand: Yes 6.5 is still better in every way.
Yes, I do! That sounds like a fantastic time and great training!
XC700116
08-29-2015, 11:11
Yes, I do! That sounds like a fantastic time and great training!
Yeap, Matches like the Steel Safari are specifically designed around the hunting mindset. You walk up to the shoot position, the RO shows you the right and left limits and tells you 6 targets at one position or 3 targets from 2 positions, and says go. You have 5 minutes to find, range, and engage your 6 shots (oh and btw the targets aren't painted so they blend in pretty well) And maybe 50-60% of the shots are prone and the rest you have to work around the natural terrain obstacles and target placement. There's very few targets that are level with the shoot position, some high, some low, etc. Winds are weird due to canyons funneling them, and the time pressure and the competition ratchets up the pressure to put just as much or more stress on the shooter as hunting does. It's a hoot!
That said, back to the original premise, if you're counting on foraging for ammo, you're already fawked. And If I'm mobile, I'm not hauling around my big heavy precision rifles.
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