Forest shooting ban, meeting days

[beast556]

* Nederland on Monday, August 31
Nederland Community Center 
750 Highway 72 North, Nederland, CO 8046

*** Idaho Springs on Tuesday, September 1 
Clear Creek Middle School 
320 Highway 103, Idaho Springs, CO 80452

*** Fort Collins on Wednesday, September 2 
Canyon Lakes Ranger District 
2150 Centre Avenue, Bldg E, Fort Collins, CO 80526

All of these meetings are scheduled to go from 5:00 PM to 7:00 PM.
any one who lives up here in the northern front range needs to try and make these meetings. It will not stop until all public land is closed to shooting. I will be attending the ft collins meeting and can pick up any one who needs a ride

[Ah Pook]

I'm going to try and make the Ned. meeting. There WILL be lots of opposition but there is a demand for places to shoot in the mountains.

[beast556]

Im sure all of our comments and arguments will fall on deaf ears but we need to show up in numbers to oppose this.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Bump

[.455_Hunter]

Very important!

The current plan is to essentially ban ALL dispersed shooting on NF land in Boulder & Gilpin counties below timberline, and compensate by MAYBE creating 1-2 "designated" locations.

I have no problems with the closure of some NF areas to shooting due to immediate proximity of homes, etc, but there are PLENTY of areas that are still safe for dispersed shooting, regardless of the socially engineered software the NF office used to create the maps. Making the designated sites is OK, but using them to justify closing ALL other accessible areas is asinine. If I want to take my 10 year old son and shoot some pop cans with .22's, I want to go to a dispersed area and shooting into a dirt bank or tailings pile, and am NOT going to a designated area where people are living out their zombie fantasies by doing AR/AK mag dumps (not that there is anything wrong with that, but not my cup of tea). Can you imagine what the designated locations will be like on a Sat afternoon?

For what its worth, I have notified the NRA/ILA and Sen Gardner's office about the planned restrictions.

[SamuraiCO]

Maybe the BLM and Forest Services can stop the tax that we pay for the use of said land above everyone else that uses the land.

[beast556]

Btt

[Ah Pook]

We can bitch on endlessly about useless crap but when something that affects us all comes along it's crickets. [Roll1] 6 replies and 291 views?!? Come the fauk on!!!!

This is a chance to be heard. The opposition is using the "not my tax dollars" excuse. Let's come up with a volunteer plan to build and maintain a viable range.

Lefthand Canyon was adopted by a gun club and off road club. There were clean-ups and some monitoring. I went to a couple and it seemed to help.

Or sit in front of your computer and jerk the gherk.

[pickenup]

Plan on making the Ned meeting.

[.455_Hunter]

BUMP!

Meeting tonight!

These are the people who ARE attending...


"I want to see a permanent ban on all recreational shooting in this entire area," said Christina.

The plan right now is to ELIMINATE ALL DISPERSED SHOOTING essentially below timberline in Boulder and Gilpin Counties, and MAYBE replace some of that usage with a couple of designated sites.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/fight-brewing-between-residents-and-recreational-shooters-in-arapaho-roosevelt-national-forest


(http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/fight-brewing-between-residents-and-recreational-shooters-in-arapaho-roosevelt-national-forest)

[MED]

I am at total loss for words on this because endless irresponsible and disrespectful behavior put us into this mess. All the guys leaving their trash; shooting at trees, signs, and whatever else they find; and placing their targets on top of the backstops so their projectiles go who knows where. I spent countless hours cleaning and talking to people and it mattered none; in a matter of days, the shooting area was full of shit all over again so I just stopped. Hell, I even had a dumbass discharge his weapon while i was still downrange with the point of impact about 5-10ft away from me. It wasn't like that 25 years ago, but it is all a fucking mess now.

What do we say, ignore all the assholes and keep it open for us? Unless we find a way to police the jerks, we are fighting a losing battle; and we made this very easy for the opposition. We may or may not have public shooting areas. Personally, I think that is just a smoke screen to achieve their endgame. We are going to lose shooting on public lands, and just driving out and looking at the ones near me there is no mystery why this will happen.

[.455_Hunter]

I am at total loss for words on this because endless irresponsible and disrespectful behavior put us into this mess. All the guys leaving their trash; shooting at trees, signs, and whatever else they find; and placing their targets on top of the backstops so their projectiles go who knows where. I spent countless hours cleaning and talking to people and it mattered none; in a matter of days, the shooting area was full of shit all over again so I just stopped. Hell, I even had a dumbass discharge his weapon while i was still downrange with the point of impact about 5-10ft away from me. It wasn't like that 25 years ago, but it is all a fucking mess now.

What do we say, ignore all the assholes and keep it open for us? Unless we find a way to police the jerks, we are fighting a losing battle; and we made this very easy for the opposition. We may or may not have public shooting areas. Personally, I think that is just a smoke screen to achieve their endgame. We are going to lose shooting on public lands, and just driving out and looking at the ones near me there is no mystery why this will happen.

All unfortunately true. While a "shooting spot" does not need to be devoid of any debris, the junk that people shoot and leave for everybody else to "enjoy" is ridiculous.


Hell, I even had a dumbass discharge his weapon while i was still downrange with the point of impact about 5-10ft away from me.

This is why I am not so hot on concentrated, designated sites being the ONLY option.

Why can't we have stepped-up enforcement of existing laws- fine Bubba, Cleetus and Billy Jean $5K each for unsafe/reckless shooting, confiscate and sell all guns/vehicles involved to pay for the program?
Word will get around real quick about keeping your nose clean while shooting...

[Irving]

Tough battle for sure. The people that treat the areas with respect aren't the problem, but pale in comparison to the people who are the problem. The problem people aren't going to meetings, and are largely unreachable. I don't even shoot on public land for that very reason. I'm torn because while I don't want further restrictions, I can't think of any other solution other than closures. We simply don't have the resources to police idiots being idiots. Public land closures make me nervous because it will just push shooters toward private land, and I sure as hell don't want to deal with those fools on my property.

[MED]

Here is a good one with the targets nailed to the trees on top of the hill with Highway 126 on the other side. This kind of stupidity needs to stop if we are to have any hope of salvaging shooting sports.

60671

[Irving]

Guns are so taboo that everyone is afraid to talk about them. Seems basic firearms safety being taught in school would go a long way toward this, and many other firearm related issues. However, that will never happen because that will be seen as encouraging what that side of the political spectrum doesn't want.

[hurley842002]

To those that wish to close public land because they are simply anti 2a and dislike guns, they can pound sand. To the people that are actually concerned with safety and the destruction being caused, I can't say I disagree with them. I'm a shooter, but I'm also a hiker, camper, "wheeler" etc, and I suspect there are many others like me. I stopped shooting at my normal spots because it was unsafe and I want nothing to do with the damage being caused to trees and surrounding area.

Do I want the forest closed to shooting? Absolutely not. Do I want the damage and disrespect to stop? Absolutely. So where do we go from here? I'm hoping to attend the Idaho Springs meeting, as that's close to one of my old shooting spots, we'll see if my schedule cooperates.

[sneakerd]

Unsafe shooters, deaths, huge piles of trash being left at common shooting areas- doesn't surprise me at all. Shooting in these areas WILL be outlawed. Just out of curiosity, what argument could one make for keeping them open? Because we're all safe shooters? NO. Because all of us pick up after ourselves? NO. Because all of these common shooting areas still look like pristine wilderness? NO. Because no one has ever been hurt in these areas by unsafe gunhandling? NO. Lead everywhere, broken glass everywhere, trees being shot to hell for no reason. We have no leg to stand on at these meetings.

[Irving]

Exactly the way I feel as well. Education would go a long way, but as it is converse to the ideals of purple who are afraid of guns, and may take generations to show results, I can't imagine anyone will support that method. Any closures should come with a sunset date.

[.455_Hunter]

Sorry- I refuse to surrender a safe and lawful form of recreation my family has enjoyed since the mid-1950's without a fight. I have already been on the phone with the NF programmatic lead for this effort and may visit him personally in Fort Collins to discuss.

[crashdown]

sneakerd and hurley are on point.
I want dispersed shooting to be legal, but it's so bad I don't do it anymore.
I hike, camp, and would love to shoot, but I don't want to do those things with other people shooting around me, so I stopped shooting on forest land.
Going to these meetings would be tough because I would argue both sides.

[Irving]

.455_hunter, I hope you are successful, and I hope even more a way is found that prevents the same people from ruining this for you and others.

[.455_Hunter]

Going to these meetings would be tough because I would argue both sides.

I understand. There definitely areas of NF where shooting should NOT be allowed, and I fully support prohibitions in such areas.

[crashdown]

I understand. There definitely areas of NF where shooting should NOT be allowed, and I fully support prohibitions in such areas.

I appreciate your conviction.
I'm guessing you live close to where I do. There is plenty of land that would make great informal shooting sights without the need to send target shooters out into the wild.

[Hummer]

All unfortunately true. While a "shooting spot" does not need to be devoid of any debris, the junk that people shoot and leave for everybody else to "enjoy" is ridiculous.



This is why I am not so hot on concentrated, designated sites being the ONLY option.

Why can't we have stepped-up enforcement of existing laws- fine Bubba, Cleetus and Billy Jean $5K each for unsafe/reckless shooting, confiscate and sell all guns/vehicles involved to pay for the program?
Word will get around real quick about keeping your nose clean while shooting...

I fully agree.

Here is the question to take to the meetings, the deliberate lack of enforcement by the managing agencies. Both the USFS and the BLM employ large staffs but very few law enforcement people work in the field. Everybody else is sitting on their asses in front of computer screens. It's a matter of effective land management, and they aren't doing it. Instead, they find it easier to manage by limiting use of the land by those of us who have a right to use it. Question them specifically about this. The USFS and BLM do not own the land, the citizens do. It is their charge to manage it and multiple use has always been the agencies mantra. Hold them to it. A small vocal group of anti's shouldn't influence closure any more than the abusers of the land. Get law enforcement into the field and the problems can be fixed.

Oh, btw, please be respectful of others when you go to these meetings. It's an important way to show your intent and character. Be a Boy Scout, even if you're not.

[offgrid]

Last summer my wife was on a hiking trail and some idiot started shooting near the trail head, very serious. Two friends, husband and wife, were hiking a couple miles from our homes, bullets started hitting trees next to them, they tucked behind a rock out cropping and he frantically called me several times after calling Gilpin county Sheriff. Gilpin Deputy gave the "recreational" shooters a warning. I would think reckless endangerment would be in order, randomly shooting, no backstop.....

I will be at the Clear Creek meeting tomorrow. I don't know what I'm going to say.

I believe this is not a gun control issue. It's a social issue. It's about stupid people with guns. It's about the ever growing lack of respect towards others, property, knowing boundaries.... Believe it's too far gone, concerns me greatly not only with this issue.

[cstone]

Off topic, but I can't be the only person who would like to live in a state where there are more public shooting ranges than public golf courses.

Nothing against golf, but I don't get the justification of taxpayer funds for one and not the other.

[GilpinGuy]

I'm at work anxiously awaiting a trip report from the Nederland meeting. Can anyone that went share what happened?

[Ah Pook]

I'm at work anxiously awaiting a trip report from the Nederland meeting. Can anyone that went share what happened?
I ended up having to work tonight also. Also waiting.

[.455_Hunter]

If this Ned meeting was like the one in Boulder that I attended, nothing really "happens", but people can view maps for the various designated sites, as well as the the overall master plan map. The coordinator has a Q & A session, and asks people to submit comments. Sometimes a rep from the DOW, Sheriff or County Commissioners may be present as well. It's good for shooters to make their presence known in a firm, but polite manner.

[GilpinGuy]

So basically it's already been decided to corral shoters to a few designated areas and the Q&A is a dog and pony show. I figured that would be the case.

[.455_Hunter]

So basically it's already been decided to corral shoters to a few designated areas and the Q&A is a dog and pony show. I figured that would be the case.

No, that is not the case. They make it very clear that these are OPTIONS, and are seeking public input from stakeholders.

[Ah Pook]

The last meeting, in Ned, was just informational with no Q&A.

[.455_Hunter]

The last meeting, in Ned, was just informational with no Q&A.

Interesting. Even less involvement than before.

[hatidua]

I used to go up to that spot where hwy 7/72 meet (old Allenspark dump I think it was referred to) and take out several garbage bags of debris with me every time I went. It became apparent after a while that there was simply no way of keeping up with the amount of garbage that people took up there to shoot at, and leave behind. Most (but certainly not all) of those bringing computers/TV's/Etc. to shoot and leave seemed to be the college set. Away from home, away from consequences, away from their home state and more than happy to trash this one...

[Ah Pook]

Interesting. Even less involvement than before.
I think it was lip service and the powers that be got called on it. The local rag ran it in the front page. The 1/2 page pick they used was some lady looking like Honey Bubu waiting for the next chicken tender.

I still haven't heard the local response.

[pickenup]

I hate being a mechanic, especially emergency fix-its.
Life happened, and I didn't make it either.

[GilpinGuy]

Fuckin hippies. I didn't move up here for this vaginational bullshit. Go back to the shithole cities you came from.

[pickenup]

Stop cali-fornicating Colorado.

[Gman]

As long as there are liberal majorities in the big cities electing politicians that share their liberal ideals, this isn't gonna' be pretty.