View Full Version : Genius in Evergreen Shoots Bears
http://www.9news.com/story/news/local/2015/09/01/evergreen-cub-shot/71507774/
EVERGREEN - Two bear cubs died Tuesday morning after an Evergreen man shot them.
According to the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department, a 40-year-old homeowner in the 27000 block of Lupine Drive in Evergreen saw a mother bear and her two cubs going through his trash around 5:15 a.m. He had rubber bullets in his shotgun, so he fired two rounds to scare them off. His dog ran out into the area, so the homeowner grew concerned for his dog. He fired a third round, but it was a live round. The live round hit both cubs. One bear cub was killed instantly. The other was wounded and had to be euthanized by Colorado Parks and Wildlife officers. The mother bear ran across the street and into a tree. The live round also went through a neighbor's window, but no one was hurt in that home. The man will face two misdemeanor charges of hunting out of season and one felony charge of illegal discharge of a firearm. Colorado Parks and Wildlife officials hope once the scene starts the clear that the mother bear will come down from the tree on her own.
Sad for the bears to have to live among such people.
A felony - good! - this idiot deserves it. I'm just glad no human was in the bullet path.
.455_Hunter
09-01-2015, 11:50
I have no issue with using rubber buckshot on bears causing problems- fire the rounds, and then call the sheriff at let them know what happened so you don't the cavalry responding to "shots fired". The DOW even gives out these loads to people who have frequent bear problems. However, using lethal ammo when no "life threatening" condition exists and your neighbors house is the direct backstop is asinine.
I wonder if he subscribed to the mixed magazine theory and forgot that his number three shell was NOT rubber...
At our foothills home, the designated rubber buckshot gun (an cut-down H&R single-shot) is segregated from other lethal platforms.
Bottom line, in my eyes, is that rise bears died because he didn't secure his dog first. That is unfortunate.
DavieD55
09-01-2015, 12:00
There needs to be more black bear tags available to hunters.
StagLefty
09-01-2015, 12:20
Pure stupidity !!
I wish bear cubs would come around my place. I'd take pictures.
What a putz.
Great-Kazoo
09-01-2015, 12:36
Yet on their website. Not a peep (for now) about another LE being killed. SQUIRREL!
http://www.9news.com/section/global/nation-now/
hollohas
09-01-2015, 12:38
There needs to be more black bear tags available to hunters.
There are lots available. They are even over-the-counter. I have 2 this year.
Guy from OP story deserves the felony charge.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
buffalobo
09-01-2015, 12:40
Bottom line, in my eyes, is that rise bears died because he didn't secure his dog first. That is unfortunate.
^^^This. Good way to lose a dog or end up with large vet bill.
We live in rural area and always visually check the yard before dog gets let out.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
crashdown
09-01-2015, 14:20
Just looked at the satellite image of 27000 Lupine....
Those houses are on small lots, the size of city lots. He has no business even firing rubber bullets.
I wish he would get more charges... having trash out at dark should be considered baiting/feeding the bears and the D.O.W. should ticket him too.
Singlestack
09-01-2015, 15:11
I guess if he is convicted of a felony, he will lose his bang sticks?
I'm not sure about the hunting out of season charge but he deserves the other one for being a moron.
.455_Hunter
09-01-2015, 15:22
According to the media, it sounds the Colorado Parks and Wildlife gave him the rubber buckshot rounds.
End of that program in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1....
colorider
09-01-2015, 15:40
Probably some out of state dipshit hipster that has NO idea that bears frequent the area and are part of living in Evergreen. I see and meet these dickheads every week with my business.
They are moving to the area in hoards and have NO clue what Colorado is all about. Except the legal weed. I am praying that the winter months drive some of these clowns back to their home states.
Unfortunate mistakes on his part. I don't wish to see the guy get a felony though. Sounds like he was trying to do the right thing by getting the Bears out of there but maybe made a mistake on rounds in his gun or feared for his dog. Yes he screwed up but a felony is a bit much.
hollohas
09-01-2015, 15:52
Unfortunate mistakes on his part. I don't wish to see the guy get a felony though. Sounds like he was trying to do the right thing by getting the Bears out of there but maybe made a mistake on rounds in his gun or feared for his dog. Yes he screwed up but a felony is a bit much.
A negligent discharge into a neighbor's home doesn't deserve a felony charge?
A negligent discharge into a neighbor's home doesn't deserve a felony charge?
I don't think so. It'd be different if he actually hit someone.
A negligent discharge into a neighbor's home doesn't deserve a felony charge?
Given the circumstances, No. He was trying to get the animals out of his trash. It's not like he was feeding them his garbage to poach them. If the DOW issued him rubber bullets it has probably been a problem in the past, maybe they failed at getting the Bears out of the area. Part of the mountain life obviously but I wouldn't wish to see someone lose their rights due to trying to do the right thing. Maybe he intentionally killed the Bears, if so I understand, but to kill 2 with 1 shot and have it go through a window? That's just impressive itf it was on purpose.
hollohas
09-01-2015, 16:37
3 shots. Only one was fatal.
Only one shot wasn't rubber though. Article says that he killed one bear instantly, the other had to be put down. Assuming 00 buck with 9 pellets, one bear takes enough to be instantly fatal, second is mortally wounded, and yet more shot didn't hit either bear and continued through a window. Not that any of this matters at this point, but now I'm curious what load was fired, at what range, and the position of the bears. Sounds like piss poor shot placement at first glance.
hollohas
09-01-2015, 16:56
Exactly. My thought was buck shot as well.
One or two shots of rubber to scare them off, not enough to be felonies IMO, even if you're not supposed to be firing guns in the neighborhood. But the 3rd "live" round as the news calls it, accidental or not, that illegally killed two bears and hit a neighbor's house? That's as negligent as it gets. Firing the gun was illegal. Killing the bears was illegal. But it's the hitting the neighbor's house that really puts it over the edge for me. That's just downright dangerous. This guy broke every gun safety rule in the book and broke a whole shit ton of actual laws in the process. Bad judgement perhaps, but sure sounds like plain old stupidity to me. IMO, the felony charge is more than valid. But I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a deal for lesser charge.
.455_Hunter
09-01-2015, 17:18
One or two shots of rubber to scare them off, not enough to be felonies IMO, even if you're not supposed to be firing guns in the neighborhood.
Unless he lives within Evergreen city limits, discharging firearms is not automatically a problem in Jeffco, even if its in a subdivision. However, a .2 acre lot is a big difference from a 10 acre lot.
I am curious if the P&W knew his exact living conditions when providing him the rubber buckshot.
Bailey Guns
09-01-2015, 17:19
Fuck him. He didn't secure his trash. Bears do what bears do when you don't secure your trash. Live with it and put your trash away next time. Then he didn't keep his dog under control. Then he fired his gun not knowing what type of ammo it was loaded with and with no regard for rules 3 and 4. This guy is too stupid to own a gun and he's just the type of moron that provides continuous "ammunition" for those that want to further restrict gun rights. My sympathy lies with the bears...not this douche.
Bailey Guns
09-01-2015, 17:20
Evergreen is unincorporated...there are no city limits.
I'm under the impression from the way the article is written that he knew that round three was "live," and that he decided to shoot for fear of the dog being injured. Which kind of begs the question of if you think your dog might get hurt, is adding live ammo the right decision? I feel I'm already way too far down Arm Chair Quarterback Rd though at this point.
Yeah I'm right there with you Irving, it will play out and have no impact on me personally so it is what it is.
hollohas
09-01-2015, 18:42
Which kind of begs the question of if you think your dog might get hurt, is adding live ammo the right decision?
Right decision or not, the law says even if your dog is getting hurt, it's still illegal. City limits, not city limits, whatever, you cannot shoot bears for perceived or actual threat to pets. Everything else aside, the simple act of killing the bears WAS illegal.
See statue 33-3-106
https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/WildlifeSpecies/LivingWithWildlife/NuisanceWildlife.pdf&ved=0CDkQFjAAahUKEwi8rKyajtfHAhVPEJIKHf-NAHo&usg=AFQjCNE59TxQC1zO3DUH3Rnpg7pm_xlvng&sig2=fa6ejW6tnZqilKBb8TyeZQ
BushMasterBoy
09-01-2015, 18:52
If I saw a bear eating a legislator, I would make sure my dog left it alone...
https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/WildlifeSpecies/LivingWithWildlife/NuisanceWildlife.pdf
Right decision or not, the law says even if your dog is getting hurt, it's still illegal. City limits, not city limits, whatever, you cannot shoot bears for perceived or actual threat to pets. Everything else aside, the simple act of killing the bears WAS illegal.
See statue 33-3-106
https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/WildlifeSpecies/LivingWithWildlife/NuisanceWildlife.pdf&ved=0CDkQFjAAahUKEwi8rKyajtfHAhVPEJIKHf-NAHo&usg=AFQjCNE59TxQC1zO3DUH3Rnpg7pm_xlvng&sig2=fa6ejW6tnZqilKBb8TyeZQ
Not arguing that part at all. Bad shot all around. Just don't think people should be given sentences for what COULD have happened.
A bear proof container would have saved him a lot of trouble. I'm not sure I see protecting livestock or animals an excuse in this case because he introduced the dog into the situation.
Bear gets in my trash, I need to fix the problem trash. My neighbors are armed. I have no problem with that until one shoots my house. I don't care what the round is made of. I'm sure they are of the same mindset.
hollohas
09-02-2015, 15:01
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/02/91da80771c532944ca192a433156f5b3.jpg
What does "illegal discharge of a firearm" mean? What is the scope off that charge? Could the same be applied to firing within city limits? Next, how was he in illegal possession of wildlife?
Finally, with all the arm chair quarterbacking going on in this thread (mostly by me), how do we know this guy is really a genius?
hollohas
09-02-2015, 15:50
What does "illegal discharge of a firearm" mean? What is the scope off that charge? Could the same be applied to firing within city limits? Next, how was he in illegal possession of wildlife?
Finally, with all the arm chair quarterbacking going on in this thread (mostly by me), how do we know this guy is really a genius?
I don't know the illegal discharge of firearm requirements but the illegal possession of wildlife always comes with illegally shooting game animals. He shot it and it was in his yard, therefore it is in his possession.
BushMasterBoy
09-02-2015, 15:59
Since the dog is "property" and the bear is state "property", the bear killing the dog is loss of property without due process! Is it unreasonable that the bear killing your dog, it is safe to assume that the bear will kill you next? My defense to the charges would be "the choice of two evils" law.
The defense of choice of evils (http://www.boulder-bar.org/bar_media_manual/gloss.html#CHOICE OF EVILS) can be offered by a defendant who is faced with an emergency situation and has to choose between two courses of action, each of which will cause some harm. Conduct that is otherwise criminal will be excused of the defendant chooses a course of action that causes less harm than would have been caused if the defendant had strictly followed the law. For example, a person who sees an assault in progress is probably justified in gabbing a cell phone from a passer-by to call the police. It is wrong to grab the phone, but it would be far worse to allow the assault to continue. A defendant can use this defense to justify actions that would otherwise be illegal. This defense has certain limits. The defense is set out in C.R.S. § 18-1-702.
Source: http://www.boulder-bar.org/bar_media_manual/law/5.9.html
According to the media, it sounds the Colorado Parks and Wildlife gave him the rubber buckshot rounds.
End of that program in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1....
I don't think so. It's an effective program for non lethal deterrence against problem bears.
Unfortunate mistakes on his part. I don't wish to see the guy get a felony though. Sounds like he was trying to do the right thing by getting the Bears out of there but maybe made a mistake on rounds in his gun or feared for his dog. Yes he screwed up but a felony is a bit much.
It's not clear whether the homeowner shot with the realization that the third round was a lethal round. He may have simply made the mistake of not being aware of his loading sequence. If that's the case, the lack of intent should take it out of the felony category. It's a lesson for anyone in that situation.
My mountain home is in an area frequented by problem bears, some of which are tagged bears transplanted from the Boulder-Longmont area. I'm careful about avoiding bear problems but enough of my neighbors are not, so we often have encounters with bears. Six years ago, DOW issued rubber buck shot to me, and I used one for the first time last year on a bear that came to the house one morning. I load 3 rubber buckshot followed by 3 lethal rounds. One shot to the ass of this bear sent him running fast, hopefully not to return.
Since I change the loading of the shotgun for different uses, I always prominently tag the gun with the loading.
We expect bears to wander and be anywhere at night, but around our abode during the day, they are not welcome. Bears can be unpredictable and dangerous. I'd rather deter a bear with rubber buckshot than be hurt by one, or have to kill one in defense.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g292/COHummer/Animals/Breakfast-bear_zps0c36005f.jpg (http://s59.photobucket.com/user/COHummer/media/Animals/Breakfast-bear_zps0c36005f.jpg.html)
hollohas
09-02-2015, 16:06
My defense to the charges would be "the choice of two evils" law.
^That's for people not property. And dogs aren't technically property anyway I don't believe. Livestock is, pets aren't.
hollohas
09-02-2015, 16:08
One shot to the ass of this bear sent him running fast, hopefully not to return.
This is what I would expect. The fact this guy fired two rubber buckshot rounds and the Cubs were still there makes me believe he must have missed or something...
Bailey Guns
09-02-2015, 16:10
Choice of evils might apply if he hadn't committed some type of unlawful act to begin with. He's gonna have a hard time using a choice of evils defense since his unlawful behavior (dog harassing wildlife and/or reckless endangerment) led to him committing the act for which he'd argue choice of evils.
This guy's just a dumbass all the way around.
Bailey Guns
09-02-2015, 16:15
It's not clear whether the homeowner shot with the realization that the third round was a lethal round. He may have simply made the mistake of not being aware of his loading sequence. If that's the case, the lack of intent should take it out of the felony category. It's a lesson for anyone in that situation.
Doesn't matter. The statute for this, Illegal Discharge of a Firearm, requires the mental state of "knowingly" or "recklessly"...not intentionally. If he didn't know, forgot or was confused then he was reckless in the handling of his gun. It's a Class 5 felony and it applies.
.455_Hunter
09-02-2015, 16:49
It's an effective program for non lethal deterrence against problem bears.
I definitely agree, but given the current political climate of anything dealing with guns = BAD, who knows. The P&W spokeswoman on KOA this morning did not hail the praises of rubber buckshot- banging a spoon on a pot was the indicated preferred course of action for the unwashed masses...
Six years ago, DOW issued rubber buck shot to me, and I used one for the first time last year on a bear that came to the house one morning. I load 3 rubber buckshot followed by 3 lethal rounds. One shot to the ass of this bear sent him running fast, hopefully not to return. We expect bears to wander and be anywhere at night, but around our abode during the day, they are not welcome. Bears can be unpredictable and dangerous. I'd rather deter a bear with rubber buckshot than be hurt by one, or have to kill one in defense.
Good show! I have the same plan.
I think the best thing would be for this guy to join the board so we can directly give him our expert advice.
I think the best thing would be for this guy to join the board so we can directly give him our expert advice.
The know-it-alls will set him straight?
If you go to his business WilliamsTreeCo (http://www.williamstreeco.com/), you can look up his address. He only has a .31 acre lot, and the houses are right next to each other. The people in Evergreen are going ballistic on this guy. I don't want to see him burned at the stake, but I do believe that bad choices lead to bad consequences.
Doesn't matter. The statute for this, Illegal Discharge of a Firearm, requires the mental state of "knowingly" or "recklessly"...not intentionally. If he didn't know, forgot or was confused then he was reckless in the handling of his gun. It's a Class 5 felony and it applies.
I predict a partial/full acquittal...
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/evergreen-bear-cub-shooter-dan-williams-charged-with-2-felonies-6-misdemeanors-prosecutors-say
The homeowner, Daniel C. Williams, 50, is being charged with:
Illegal discharge of a firearm (felony)
Aggravated cruelty to animals (felony)
Shooting from a public road (misdemeanor)
Illegal possession of wildlife (misdemeanor) - 2 counts
Black bear hunting out of season (misdemeanor) - 3 counts
[snip]
Wildlife officials told 7NEWS they have been working with this resident to address the issues of bears on his property. Williams had acquired the rubber buckshot from Colorado Parks and Wildlife.
The problem the prosecution is going to have is if the state provided the rubber buckshot how can they prosecute him for using his weapon? It can be perceived as the state giving him license to use the shotgun on bears (obviously with the understanding it's non-lethal[ish]). A lethal load can easily be put into the mistake or the panic column.
That's a lot of overcharging for using a weapon he can claim the state directed him to use. How would we treat LEO for the same mistake? We're talking about animals here, not people.
And it's comical to me that the Class 5 felony carries more prison time than some violence sex offenders serve. Odds are good he wouldn't do that time, but still. I almost wonder if civil penalties wouldn't be better in cases like this where no one is injured. Make him pay to repair the neighbor's home and buy bear-proof garbage cans/dumpsters for the neighborhood. Then maybe a hefty fine to be spent managing the bear population. Everyone wins and the guy isn't a felon for doing something that was common place not too long ago.
BushMasterBoy
09-03-2015, 10:32
wait til a bear eats a kid...
wait til a bear eats a kid...
Shouldn't put kids in the trash.
The Jeffco SO has a now deleted facebook post from him from July 2011 where he talked about how he had shot a bear with rubber buckshot in his garage. He added that it was a cool way to start off the 4th weekend, shooting a 12 guage at 5:30a. Evidently it's been making the social media rounds and the SO has confirmed it's legit.
I don't buy that Jeffco could, or would, get a Facebook post deleted.
hollohas
09-03-2015, 14:01
Sounded to me like they retrieved the deleted post, not that they got it deleted...am I reading that wrong?
Bailey Guns
09-03-2015, 14:10
Sounded to me like they retrieved the deleted post, not that they got it deleted...am I reading that wrong?
No... I think you're correct.
That makes WAY more sense.
For the record I never said the SO deleted the post. I said the SO has the deleted post.
Charges have been filed:
http://www.wildlife.state.co.us/images/headerinsider.jpg
EVERGREEN MAN CHARGED IN SHOOTING OF BEAR CUBS
DENVER – Jefferson County Sheriff’s Department, with full support and cooperation from Colorado Parks and Wildlife, have presented their case to the district attorney regarding Dan Williams of Evergreen for the illegal shooting of two bear cubs outside his home. Charges being pursued for Williams include:
--18-12-107.5: Illegal Discharge of a Firearm (into a dwelling); (F5)
--18-9-202(1.5)(b): Aggravated Cruelty to Animals (F6)
--33-6-126: Shooting Across a Public Road
--33-6-101.3: Hunting Bear During the Period of March 1 through Sept. 1-3 Counts (M1)
--33-6-109(1): Illegal Possession of a bear during March 1 through Sept. 1- 2 Counts (M1)
On the morning of Sept. 1, Williams awoke to the sounds of bears going through his trash around 5:15 a.m. He stepped outside with his shotgun, firing two rounds of rubber buckshot to scare them off. His third round was live ammunition that hit both cubs, as well as a neighbor’s house uphill. Both bears were gravely wounded and had to be euthanized by Colorado Parks and Wildlife officers.
The mother bear ran across the street up into a tree, which she vacated later that evening.
"Shooting bears outside your home should be the last resort of anyone living in bear country, " said Steve Yamashita, northeast regional manager. "Colorado Parks and Wildlife strongly encourages everyone to be aware of the wildlife that lives in their neighborhood and take steps to mitigate conflicts before they happen. Remove all attractants, haze bears away from your home, and then contact Colorado Parks and Wildlife for next steps. "
Colorado’s northern Front Range has experienced a localized food failure this year, brought on by three weather events: an extreme and sudden temperature drop last November, the heavy rains throughout the month of May, and a hard frost on Mother’s Day. This has caused bears in the northeast region to search far and wide for food sources, in homes, vehicles, livestock pens and garages.
All citizens west of I-25 should be aware that bears may be roaming into neighborhoods as never before. If you see signs of bear activity, such as knocked-over garbage cans, bear scat or disturbed birdfeeders, start cleaning up attractants around your yard. If you see bears around your neighborhood, chase them away (from a safe distance) by clapping hands, banging pots and pans or blowing a horn.
Keep in mind these important recommendations:
--Keep garbage in a well-secured location
--Only put out garbage on the morning of pickup.
--Clean garbage cans regularly to keep them odor free.
--If you don't have secure storage, put items that might become smelly into the freezer until
trash day.
--Don't leave pet food or stock feed outside.
--Bird feeders should be brought in at this time of year -- birds don't need to be fed during the summer. --Bird feeders are a major source of bear/human conflicts. Attract birds naturally with flowers and water baths.
--If you have bird feeders: clean up beneath them, bring them in at night, and hang them high so that they're completely inaccessible to bears.
--Secure compost piles. Bears are attracted to the scent of rotting food -- and they'll eat
anything.
--Allow grills to burn for a couple of minutes after cooking to burn off grease and to eliminate odors. Clean the grill after each use.
--Cleanup thoroughly after picnics in the yard or on the deck. Don't allow food odors to
linger.
--If you have fruit trees, pick fruit before it gets too ripe. Don't allow fruit to rot on the ground.
--Close garage doors.
--Do not keep food in your vehicle; roll up windows and lock the doors of your vehicles
--Keep the bottom floor windows of your house closed when you're not at home.
--Talk to your neighbors and kids about being bear aware.
For more information go to: http://cpw.state.co.us/learn/Pages/LivingwithWildlifeBears1.aspx
CPW is an enterprise agency, relying primarily on license sales, state parks fees and registration fees to support its operations, including: 42 state parks and more than 350 wildlife areas covering approximately 900,000 acres, big-game management, hunting, fishing, wildlife watching, camping, motorized and nonmotorized trails, boating and outdoor education. CPW's work contributes approximately $6 billion in total economic impact annually throughout Colorado.
For more information about Colorado Parks and Wildlife go to: http://cpw.state.co.us.
For the record I never said the SO deleted the post. I said the SO has the deleted post.
If it's okay with you, I'm just going to keep pretending that your post was vaguely worded rather than admit I may have made a mistake.
If it's okay with you, I'm just going to keep pretending that your post was vaguely worded rather than admit I may have made a mistake.
Well ok but the beer's on you!! Cheers and have a safe holiday weekend! [Beer]
spqrzilla
11-15-2016, 12:56
Convicted on the main charges, acquited on a couple of minor charges
http://www.canyoncourier.com/content/evergreen-man-who-shot-bear-cubs-guilty-felony
Bailey Guns
11-15-2016, 16:19
I, for one, am pleased with the outcome.
Limited GM
11-16-2016, 18:32
Peg not found.
cliff notes?
speedysst
11-16-2016, 19:13
So humans invade further and further into bear territory and you feel that the bears are the issue? Really?
There needs to be more black bear tags available to hunters.
So humans invade further and further into bear territory and you feel that the bears are the issue? Really?
Humans "invading" wildlife territory? That's madness. [facepalm]
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.