View Full Version : Active shooter reported at Oregon college campus
SuperiorDG
10-01-2015, 12:28
Reports of 10 killed. WTF
Roseburg, Oregon – Authorities were “responding to reports of an active shooter” Thursday morning at the campus of Umpqua Community College, a sheriff’s spokesman said.
“There is a situation going on out there but we don’t have any more information at this time,” said Douglas County Sheriff’s Office spokesman Dwes Hutson.
It was not immediately clear whether anyone had been hurt or killed.
We will keep you updated on this story as soon as we get more information.
http://wtkr.com/2015/10/01/active-shooter-reported-at-oregon-college-campus/
SuperiorDG
10-01-2015, 12:32
ROSEBURG, Ore. — Oregon State Police said Thursday that 10 people were killed after a shooting at a community college in the southwest part of the state.
The shooting at Umpqua Community College has left at least 20 others injured, state police said.
Unconfirmed reports showed that the gunman was “down” at 11 a.m. PDT.
Mercy Medical Center in Roseburg said it is expecting an unknown number of victims.
The News Review, a Roseburg newspaper, reported on its Facebook page that police are saying up to 20 shooting victims were injured.
http://kdvr.com/2015/10/01/report-10-dead-at-oregon-community-college/
Oh man. Thoughts goin out for the deceased and injured. WTF is right.
Still no details, but numbers are at 15 dead and 20 wounded.
When will they get rid of these 'free kill zones'? [facepalm]
wctriumph
10-01-2015, 12:52
Just read breaking story, 15 dead and 20 wounded, suspect detained.
It starts all over again.
Prayers for the families of the victims. May the shooter rot in whatever hell he worships.
As soon as they figure out how to get rid of the evil guns of course .
As soon as they figure out how to get rid of the evil guns of course .
Sure, because prohibition always works. Sounds like a solid plan.[Sarcasm2]
Someone wasn't happy with their pot..
Zundfolge
10-01-2015, 13:39
Clearly their new Universal Background Check law is working beautifully. [facepalm]
BushMasterBoy
10-01-2015, 13:47
All they needed was good guy with a gun to stop the shooter.
All they needed was good guy with a gun to stop the shooter.
This for the win ^
Kraven251
10-01-2015, 13:51
Here we go again. So very tired of these shit bags. So very tired of the foaming at the mouth by the press and the politicians. So tired of the Hollywood experts weighing in with their private security detail.
Nothing can be done now but to talk down the rabid leftists, mourn for the dead, and ask why do people not know how to react in violent scenarios.
Great-Kazoo
10-01-2015, 13:51
All they needed was good guy with a gun to stop the shooter.
Not really. ALL EVERYONE NEEDS is to acknowledge shit happens any where, any time. That typical 99% response after the fact of WHO THOUGHT SOMETHING LIKE THIS COULD HAPPEN HERE ? Is one of the reasons America is in denial about violence.
Prayers for those involved.
That said, their bodies will not have cooled and the hoplophobes will be calling for more gun control in 3,2, woops, beat me to it.
Just a request.
Is there any chance that when the shooter is identified that We as a community can refrain from naming the person here on this board?
This is just a request and I will not chastise anyone who does name the criminal, but I personally have zero interest in providing any publicity for criminals.
Thank you. [Beer]
Just a request.
Is there any chance that when the shooter is identified that We as a community can refrain from naming the person here on this board?
This is just a request and I will not chastise anyone who does name the criminal, but I personally have zero interest in providing any publicity for criminals.
Thank you. [Beer]
I second that motion.
Fortunately, he's dead.
Apparently he posted about this on 4chan...
https://archive.moe/r9k/thread/22785073
Zundfolge
10-01-2015, 14:23
Just a request.
Is there any chance that when the shooter is identified that We as a community can refrain from naming the person here on this board?
This is just a request and I will not chastise anyone who does name the criminal, but I personally have zero interest in providing any publicity for criminals.
Thank you. [Beer]
Not if his name is Arabic.
Numbers revised down to the 7 dead and 20 wounded. Hey, MSM, would it kill you to report "casualty numbers unknown at this time"?
...and what a fail, MSN. This is their headline for the live feed of a press conference; Watch live: Shooting at Oregon community college
Audio reportedly of responding officers radioing in to dispatch provides a glimpse into the tense moments when cops first arrived at the college.
"We're exchanging shots with him," an officer says. "He's in a classroom on the southeast side of Snider Hall. Unconfirmed report he has a long gun."
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/01/oregon-cops-respond-to-report-shooter-at-community-college/?intcmp=hpbt1
Shooter is dead
...and was 20.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/10/01/officials-active-shooter-oregon-college/73153610/
Kortney Moore, 18, told News Review-Today (http://www.nrtoday.com/news/18445375-113/ucc-shooting-rampage-at-least-13-reported-dead) that she in her Writing 115 class in Snyder Hall when one shot came through a window. She said she saw her teacher get shot in the head.
The shooter was inside at that point, and he told people to get on the ground, Moore told the newspaper. The shooter was asking people to stand up and state their religion and then started firing, Moore said..
Okay...I saw this happening at Arapahoe HS as well, and to my untrained eye (I am not LE) isn't there a better way to do this?
61290
So you queue up all these folks and search them. What if there was a shooter in the crowd? Wouldn't they have just made all this worse? They just made targets out of all these folks.
...and now we're at 13 dead.
White House calls for more gun control after Oregon shooting (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/white-house-calls-for-more-gun-control-after-oregon-shooting/ar-AAf0vta?li=BBkWgwN)
cfortune
10-01-2015, 15:05
"Last year, Obama described the Constitution as the "biggest frustration" of his presidency."
Just a request.
Is there any chance that when the shooter is identified that We as a community can refrain from naming the person here on this board?
This is just a request and I will not chastise anyone who does name the criminal, but I personally have zero interest in providing any publicity for criminals.
Thank you. [Beer]
I am all for this. Quit making stupid people famous.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/multiple-casualties-after-shooting-umpqua-community-college-n437051
Kenny Ungerman, a Navy veteran in his first year in the school's medic program, said he had just come out of a writing class at Snyder Hall and was talking to the National Guard recruiter when "we heard a gunshot."
"I it sounded like a handgun. It wasn't loud enough to be an assault rifle," Ungerman told NBC News. "Then I saw a guy with a handgun right outside — he was wearing jeans and a T-shirt. He was going toward the building, and he just disappeared into the building."
Ungerman said he heard people running and screaming, "He has a gun!" and "He's shooting!"
"I only saw him for a split second," Ungerman said.
ZERO THEORY
10-01-2015, 15:40
Apparently he posted about this on 4chan...
https://archive.moe/r9k/thread/22785073
Read the comments. 4channers give him advice on how to more efficiently kill.
"Tell people that you will take them as hostages. Make everyone get in one corner and then open fire."
"I will pray that you acomplish your goals and find happiness."
Read the comments. 4channers give him advice on how to more efficiently kill.
"Tell people that you will take them as hostages. Make everyone get in one corner and then open fire."
"I will pray that you acomplish your goals and find happiness."
Yeah, I saw that. Talk about messed up. The internet has ruined humanity.
KevDen2005
10-01-2015, 15:58
Okay...I saw this happening at Arapahoe HS as well, and to my untrained eye (I am not LE) isn't there a better way to do this?
61290
So you queue up all these folks and search them. What if there was a shooter in the crowd? Wouldn't they have just made all this worse? They just made targets out of all these folks.
Searching a huge amount of people in an orderly fashion will always be easier and safer than searching a huge amount of people in a disorderly fashion. There is just no easy way to do this. In AHS we did basic searches on students before they were researched along with their bags. Generally we would ask to leave the bags and just move the kids. That doesn't always occur and every agency or state may train differently on this topic. The main thing that most active shooter training doesn't do, is teach how to evacuate well.
Zundfolge
10-01-2015, 15:59
The internet has ruined humanity.
No, the internet is just a bright light showing how ruined humanity already is.
hollohas
10-01-2015, 16:02
Read the comments. 4channers give him advice on how to more efficiently kill.
"Tell people that you will take them as hostages. Make everyone get in one corner and then open fire."
"I will pray that you acomplish your goals and find happiness."
Wow, read through some of that...damn...there's a bunch of fucked up people out there. Apparently these people talk about this stuff all the time... beta uprising? Normies? WTF?
68Charger
10-01-2015, 16:04
Just a request.
Is there any chance that when the shooter is identified that We as a community can refrain from naming the person here on this board?
This is just a request and I will not chastise anyone who does name the criminal, but I personally have zero interest in providing any publicity for criminals.
Thank you. [Beer]
Another +1
and I'd further suggest a "global find & replace" site wide for other mass shooters' names to "Shitbag"... or something more family friendly, but no less derogatory
sellersm
10-01-2015, 16:04
No, the internet is just a bright light showing how ruined humanity already is.
^This. And don't worry anymore, cuz the UN will fix it by soon controlling the 'net!!
68Charger
10-01-2015, 16:10
Yeah, I saw that. Talk about messed up. The internet has ruined humanity.
No, the internet is just a bright light showing how ruined humanity already is.
The internet is nothing more than a method of communication... Evil has always been in this world (and humanity)
The internet has enabled evil people to find each other, and to congregate across long distances. It's nothing more than a tool- like the weapons used by the evil people committing these crimes.
61291
But it also allows good people to find and congregate across long distances, too.
Watching the Prez call for more gun control. He sounds more intelligent with the "mute" engaged.
Mike
FYI, in violation of Oregon State preemption law, UCC was a gun-free zone. The anti-self defense crowd is saying that it wasn't; but their policy was clearly no firearms.
O2
On edit: The campus wasn't a gun free zone, but every building was (legally). Not helpful.
In an Oregon Court of Appeals case (2011), three judges concluded that Oregon public colleges and universities no longer have authority to ban weapons on the physical grounds of a campus. Each school does however, have discretion as to whether to permit concealed handguns inside buildings, dormitories, event centers, and classrooms. Private colleges and universities may still prohibit weapons throughout the entire campus including grounds.
On March, 2, 2012, the Oregon Higher Education Board voted unanimously to ban weapons in all seven state colleges and universities.
Obama speaking about it now and doing exactly what you'd expect. Prayers go out to the families of the lost and those fighting to survive, but bodies aren't even cold and he's spewing his lies...
thanks for moving this post.
Zundfolge
10-01-2015, 16:40
So apparently he was specifically killing Christians.
http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/reports-ucc-shooter-asked-victims-their-religion-then-killed-christians
Well this will shut up the lefties pretty quick ... can't make a big deal about one of their own going rogue.
FYI, in violation of Oregon State preemption law, UCC was a gun-free zone. The anti-self defense crowd is saying that it wasn't; but their policy was clearly no firearms.
O2
I am wondering why folks don't sue "weapon-free zones" after something happens to them. When you make your establishment a weapon free zone, don't you take on the responsibility of keeping those folks at your establishment safe since you have taken away the right of those folks to defend themselves?
So... had this been a white christian his name would be all over the front page by now... Geee... wonder what the shooter was.
Were any of the victims shot with Confederate flags? Those things are dangerous.
4Chan Users Spread False Data About Shooting (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/4chan-users-spread-false-data-about-shooting/ar-AAf0Qs8?li=BBkWgwN)
68Charger
10-01-2015, 17:02
I am wondering why folks don't sue "weapon-free zones" after something happens to them. When you make your establishment a weapon free zone, don't you take on the responsibility of keeping those folks at your establishment safe since you have taken away the right of those folks to defend themselves?
They do... but in the end, only lawyers win: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/va-supreme-court-overturns-verdict-in-wrongful-death-suit-against-virginia-tech/2013/10/31/047864ac-423c-11e3-a751-f032898f2dbc_story.html
Originally the victims won, http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/campus-overload/post/report-virginia-tech-massacre-cost-482-million/2012/04/13/gIQAdDmxET_blog.html
but it was overturned by VA Supreme court.
Debated this with our CSO (chief security officer)... he got VERY defensive when I accused him of just caring about $$ the company had to pay, and not about lives of employees... typical liberal, thinks that only police and military should have guns.
http://articles.courant.com/2014-02-04/news/hc-op-fresh-talk-kelly-mass-shooting-lawsuits-usef-20140204_1_columbine-lawsuits-erin-peterson-julia-pryde
Obama: Gun laws must be changed, gun owners must speak up (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/obama-gun-laws-must-be-changed-gun-owners-must-speak-up/ar-AAf11mv?li=BBkWgwN)
Uhhh...no. What are the odds that this jackass was an NRA member?
The responsibility will be on gun owners right after muslims speak up for the actions of every radical jihadist.
Our president needs to buy a clue. Students of his Constitutional Law classes deserve refunds.
Yup! Obama just started spewing his crap about control once again. Never let a good crisis go to waste.
milwaukeeshaker
10-01-2015, 17:30
Never let any tragedy be wasted to further your unconstitutional agenda.
...and now we're at 13 dead.
White House calls for more gun control after Oregon shooting (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/white-house-calls-for-more-gun-control-after-oregon-shooting/ar-AAf0vta?li=BBkWgwN)
Very sad. Thoughts going out to the victims and families.
Another act of cowardice the media/politicians will exploit for weeks/months.
Rather than using his name, just refer to him as "The Coward". No pics of this POS either. Give him no publicity what so ever.
Bailey Guns
10-01-2015, 18:22
4:15: Mother Jones is reporting (http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/10/oregon-sheriff-umpqua-massacre-white-house-gun-control-newtown) that Douglas County Sheriff John Hanlin sent a letter to Vice President Joe Biden in 2013, urging Biden to "not tamper with or attempt to amend the 2nd amendment. Gun control is NOT the answer to preventing heinous crimes like school shootings." The Oregonian/OregonLive has not yet confirmed their report. http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/10/active_shooting_reported_at_um.html
Rooskibar03
10-01-2015, 19:28
Still no identity of shooter. Guess he doesn't fit the media narrative.
They do... but in the end, only lawyers win: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/va-supreme-court-overturns-verdict-in-wrongful-death-suit-against-virginia-tech/2013/10/31/047864ac-423c-11e3-a751-f032898f2dbc_story.html
Originally the victims won, http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/campus-overload/post/report-virginia-tech-massacre-cost-482-million/2012/04/13/gIQAdDmxET_blog.html
but it was overturned by VA Supreme court.
Debated this with our CSO (chief security officer)... he got VERY defensive when I accused him of just caring about $$ the company had to pay, and not about lives of employees... typical liberal, thinks that only police and military should have guns.
http://articles.courant.com/2014-02-04/news/hc-op-fresh-talk-kelly-mass-shooting-lawsuits-usef-20140204_1_columbine-lawsuits-erin-peterson-julia-pryde
Well, I consider any place that I have to be (work)... if they have a "no weapons policy" responsible for my safety. And if something were to happen, they take on that responsibility for my safety just by denying me my ability to defend myself.
Are places that don't allow guns responsible for the lives of people who don't carry guns? Real question.
Are places that don't allow guns responsible for the lives of people who don't carry guns? Real question.
Why not? When you as a proprietor or administrator of a property actively deny a person's ability to take a gun to a gun fight (or allow that person's ability to exercise their inalienable right to even the odds to defend themselves.) I believe that you yourself as the person who is denying that right takes on the responsibility of that individual for which you are disarming to ensure that they are as safe as they could be.
For those that choose to NOT carry guns, that proprietor or administrator of that location/property also is advertising that "hey come in you should be safe because we do not allow anyone (even criminals) in here with anything but their hands, and you should have as good a chance." "mano Y mano" than anyone else. And we are taking on the responsibility to even the odds if someone does not play fair.
Great-Kazoo
10-01-2015, 19:53
Are places that don't allow guns responsible for the lives of people who don't carry guns? Real question.
The ruling from the Aurora theater lawsuit, cost the movie chain $$$. It also got them to put metal detectors in. Like that's going to stop someone who already opened fire, prior to the detector.
blacklabel
10-01-2015, 19:56
The ruling from the Aurora theater lawsuit, cost the movie chain $$$. It also got them to put metal detectors in. Like that's going to stop someone who already opened fire, prior to the detector.
Or comes in through a side door. Security theater. No pun intended.
Or comes in through a side door. Security theater. No pun intended.
The ruling from the Aurora theater lawsuit, cost the movie chain $$$. It also got them to put metal detectors in. Like that's going to stop someone who already opened fire, prior to the detector.
Yes, moral of the story is that creating gun free zones and security checkpoints does absolutely nothing. I will be responsible for mine and my family's safety TYVM and screw the gun free zones.
Looks like the bastard was a conservative atheist based on his dating profile. They're also saying an AR was involved.
blacklabel
10-01-2015, 20:11
Looks like the bastard was a conservative atheist based on his dating profile. They're also saying an AR was involved.
So was there no right answer to the "What is your religion?" question?
Zundfolge
10-01-2015, 20:29
Looks like the bastard was a conservative atheist based on his dating profile. They're also saying an AR was involved.
Nope. looks like he may have been a Muslim convert.
Charles Johnson with the scoop http://gotnews.com/breaking-confirmed-chris-harper-mercer-is-26-year-old-muslim-killer-uccshooting/
(gotnews.com seems to be getting hammered right now so it may take a few reloads to get the site to display)
Muslim, Christian, Pagan, Atheist... religion is a very powerful thing. Drives people to kill, start wars, a person can do some very crazy $#!7 if they believe they will be rewarded after they die.
Nope. looks like he may have been a Muslim convert.
Charles Johnson with the scoop http://gotnews.com/breaking-confirmed-chris-harper-mercer-is-26-year-old-muslim-killer-uccshooting/
(gotnews.com seems to be getting hammered right now so it may take a few reloads to get the site to display)
If true, that goes a long way to explain why they're keeping tight wraps on info.
I'm eager to hear what Obummer will have to say about this when the facts come out. It will be interesting to see how he dances around after stepping on his dick today.
ETA: This Link (http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/chris-harper-mercer-umpqua-community-college-ucc-roseburg-oregon-shooting-shooter-gunman-dead-eggman-4chan-name-id-identity-photos-twitter-social-media-facebook-youtube/) would seem to indicates he was a self professed "conservative Republican." WTF knows I guess.
BushMasterBoy
10-01-2015, 22:52
Another muslim terrorist. Same for Fort Hood shooter, Boston Marathon bombers, 9/11 hijackers et al. I don't usually post in politics but, Congress needs to declare Islam a terrorist organization. And if the Supreme Court finds this unconstitutional, arrest them for treason and replace them. What is it going to take to do this? A suicide bomber killing a first family member? Maybe a dirty bomb on Wall Street? An Islamic militant slaughtering a kindergarten class?
In World War 2 the .gov rounded up folks who just looked Asian and put them in camps. These folks, the majority didn't even do anything! American people need to get it in their heads that Islam IS NOT a religion. It is a political movement that is disguised as a religion. In the Global War On Terror, Islam in the United States is treason and the at the very least sedition and subversion.
There are plenty of Muslim countries they can go to. Obama wants to enact legislation? Start with this facade of a "religion". Outlaw CAIR now! Outlaw mosques. Outlaw hajibs. Outlaw sharia. Same way Germany outlawed Nazis. No swastikas allowed.
This isn't about second amendment rights, this isn't about firearms, this is about Islamic terror. We don't need to go to a foreign nation to fight terrorism, they are here in the United States! Admit it...the shooter is a traitor for Islam. Plain & simple.
http://gotnews.com/breaking-confirmed-chris-harper-mercer-is-26-year-old-muslim-killer-uccshooting/
Congress needs to declare Islam a terrorist organization.
Islam is followed by about one and a half BILLION people, 23% of people on the planet. That's a pretty clear majority over every other religion.
Besides, Congress is a bunch of fuckwits. I wouldn't believe them if they passed legislation saying the Sun rises in the east.
Islam is more than a religion. It's an entire political system with no tolerance to cohabitate with other beliefs or ideas.
...but I'm not sure about this coward being affiliated with "the religion of peace".
Sent from my electronic leash.
buffalobo
10-02-2015, 06:24
Islam is followed by about one and a half BILLION people, 23% of people on the planet. That's a pretty clear majority over every other religion.
And so therefore what?
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Bailey Guns
10-02-2015, 06:24
I'm not buying into the Muslim claims until more is known about this guy.
Tactical Joke
10-02-2015, 07:10
Thoughts with the victims and families.
Can we not do better than the media, here? We don't need hyperbole and speculation; We need facts. Until then, hand waving and rumor mongering makes us sound like a bunch of middle school girls... or CNN.
Nope. looks like he may have been a Muslim convert.
Charles Johnson with the scoop http://gotnews.com/breaking-confirmed-chris-harper-mercer-is-26-year-old-muslim-killer-uccshooting/
(gotnews.com seems to be getting hammered right now so it may take a few reloads to get the site to display)
I think this link is BS. News keeps saying he was 20 years-old. This link doesn't provide any info besides saying, "this is the guy."
Edit: Read another link with more info, but still nothing note worthy.
People describe him as a 'loner' and 'odd'. Never heard that before, but it's not a crime to be either. Did this jackass have a criminal record? If not, why the push on gun owners to just give up their rights to self-defense? This Minority Report concept that someone going nuts can always be prevented is lunacy.
In a country of 320 million people, this crap will happen, although this issue is not uniquely American.
There are 2 legged predators in this world. Defend yourselves.
...and criminals don't obey laws. The concept of a 'gun free zone' only works in fantasy land.
milwaukeeshaker
10-02-2015, 08:39
The bodies were not even cold yet when Osama read his little gun control speech, pretending to be outraged. What an utter POS.
BPTactical
10-02-2015, 09:41
The bodies were not even cold yet when Osama read his little gun control speech, pretending to be outraged. What an utter POS.
QFT
Great-Kazoo
10-02-2015, 10:17
The bodies were not even cold yet when Osama read his little gun control speech, pretending to be outraged. What an utter POS.
QFT
Was one expecting anything else ?
Notice once again his silence about targeting a specific religion. or the shooters ethnicity .
Zundfolge
10-02-2015, 10:42
I'm not buying into the Muslim claims until more is known about this guy.
Yeah, it looks more like he was an atheist or agnostic that just admired murderous ideologues.
I don't even know how to respond to this Oregonian POS. It has been reported that this guy made people lay on the floor and one by one told to stand and state their religion, if they said Christian they were shot in the head. We have now come to a point that Christians in America are now been targeted by dirt bags. I don't know if this guy was Muslim or not but the fact that Christians are targeted specifically is a concern. Does Muslim terrorist influence attract copycats or is this just a terrorist wanbe? Either way I think the president needs to be real careful about talking about disarming honest Americans when Christians are being specifically targeted.
As everyone already knows I have a huge issue with gun free zones. And here we go again somebody, with the stroke of a pen, has created the perfect killing zone without any concern of the consequences. And as usual all it would take is a good guy with a gun to end this before it starts. But no, that good guy has been disarmed by decree, so that someone bent on breaking the law can easily operate unimpeded without concern for his own safety.
I want to know when we as a nation will stop creating gun spree zones by taking guns away from honest law abiding citizens that simply want to be able to protect themselves everywhere they go. I still believe that as a general rule CCW people are every bit as trust worthy as a police officer. CCW people must be allowed to have a chance to stop these brain damaged pieces of shit where ever they crop up.
P.S. Maybe we need to keep anybody that ever lived in California from having a gun until they are 30 years old. I'm kidding, but it seems like a lot of these idiots are in there 20's and have lived in Kali.
I still want to know why we never hear about the mass shootings everyday in Chicago. Just this past Monday 11 people were shot and Tuesday 10 people were shot. Here is one of my favorite web sites of Chicago shooting stats. For some reason I can never attach a link but you can copy and paste.
http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings/
Looking at the statistics from the link posted. 32 "KIDS" were shot in Chicago the month of September. Where is the outrage.
Ok, this is too weird now. Retribution or coincidence?
Alek Skarlatos was supposed to be in class at Umpqua Community College, but was instead doing an interview on "Ellen."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/10/02/oregon-college-shooting-french-train-hero-alek-skarlatos/73202860/
I want to know when we as a nation will stop creating gun spree zones by taking guns away from honest law abiding citizens that simply want to be able to protect themselves everywhere they go. I still believe that as a general rule CCW people are every bit as trust worthy as a police officer. CCW people must be allowed to have a chance to stop these brain damaged pieces of shit where ever they crop up.
When people with guns start making a difference. There are some 300 million guns in the country, and this happens over and over again. Each time people holler about, "If there was just a person with a gun there....blah blah blah." With as many guns in this country as there are people, WHERE ARE ALL THE GOOD GUYS WITH THE GUNS? Don't plan on convincing ANYONE that a good guy with a gun is the answer, unless you can start citing references of a good guy with a gun. I can think of only one recent instance where someone tried to commit a shooting of the public, in public, where a CCW carrier was present and present and drew his gun. That was at one of the mall shootings I believe. I think there was a CCW holder present when Gabby Giffords was shot, but he didn't draw.
Don't take this as me not agreeing with you, as I do, but without evidence to support your beliefs, no one will get on board with you. Sure, we can all point to the little CCW briefs in the NRA magazine, but those aren't cutting it. People don't respond to prevented tragedy like they do fulfilled tragedy.
When people with guns start making a difference...
But this is why "good guys" (the police) carry guns. If carrying guns did not make a difference, LE would have been disarmed decades ago.
Like so many other similar incidents, the criminal was stopped when he was confronted by gun wielding public servants. Every time there is a justified shooting in this country, I assume that the gun in the hands of a free person made a difference, regardless of whether the person is acting on behalf of the state or as a private individual.
kidicarus13
10-02-2015, 12:08
When people with guns start making a difference. There are some 300 million guns in the country, and this happens over and over again. Each time people holler about, "If there was just a person with a gun there....blah blah blah." With as many guns in this country as there are people, WHERE ARE ALL THE GOOD GUYS WITH THE GUNS? Don't plan on convincing ANYONE that a good guy with a gun is the answer, unless you can start citing references of a good guy with a gun. I can think of only one recent instance where someone tried to commit a shooting of the public, in public, where a CCW carrier was present and present and drew his gun. That was at one of the mall shootings I believe. I think there was a CCW holder present when Gabby Giffords was shot, but he didn't draw.
Don't take this as me not agreeing with you, as I do, but without evidence to support your beliefs, no one will get on board with you. Sure, we can all point to the little CCW briefs in the NRA magazine, but those aren't cutting it. People don't respond to prevented tragedy like they do fulfilled tragedy.
10 cases...
http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2015/03/10-cases-where-an-armed-citizen-took-down-an-active-shooter/#10-cases-where-an-armed-citizen-took-down-an-active-shooter-2
(http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/07/daniel-zimmerman/navy-times-navy-officer-and-marine-fired-back-at-chattanooga-terrorist/)
But this is why "good guys" (the police) carry guns. If carrying guns did not make a difference, LE would have been disarmed decades ago.
Like so many other similar incidents, the criminal was stopped when he was confronted by gun wielding public servants. Every time there is a justified shooting in this country, I assume that the gun in the hands of a free person made a difference, regardless of whether the person is acting on behalf of the state or as a private individual.
I know that, and we know that, but that is clearly not enough to convince the masses.
10 cases...
http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2015/03/10-cases-where-an-armed-citizen-took-down-an-active-shooter/#10-cases-where-an-armed-citizen-took-down-an-active-shooter-2
(http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/07/daniel-zimmerman/navy-times-navy-officer-and-marine-fired-back-at-chattanooga-terrorist/)
Same thing here. This stuff seems so obvious to us, because it is. However, to someone who thinks people can somehow evolve into accepting peace, this evidence is just not good enough. What needs to happen when evidence is just not good enough to convince a person?
When a good guy with a gun goes to jail for violating a 'gun free zone', you're comparing apples and orangutans. I avoid gun free zones for this reason. This 'good-guy' will likely not be there in the first place.
The heck with the 2nd Amendment. This is about the natural right of self-preservation when someone wants to assassinate you for being a Christian.
I know that, and we know that, but that is clearly not enough to convince the masses.
Same thing here. This stuff seems so obvious to us, because it is. However, to someone who thinks people can somehow evolve into accepting peace, this evidence is just not good enough. What needs to happen when evidence is just not good enough to convince a person?
There will always be people who are so convinced they are right, on whatever subject they choose, that they will not permit the existence of logic or evidence to cause them to sway from their position. I find this to be true of almost everyone I have ever met, including myself, depending on the subject.
When the immovable object meets the irresistible force...
News conference of ATF report on weapons. Qty recovered only, no details.
1. Not going to hot link this, probably best you copy/paste to watch the video.
2. How do these people get jobs? "Flank Jacket." with steel plates. [facepalm]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBobMSl643I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBobMSl643I)
I think it will take survivors and people who have been saved by someone else, speaking up loudly, to change the minds of those who can't accept reality.
kidicarus13
10-02-2015, 13:30
I think it will take survivors and people who have been saved by someone else, speaking up loudly, to change the minds of those who can't accept reality.
Those that don't see reality for what it is will possibly never see reality no matter what happens.
Those that don't see reality for what it is will possibly never see reality no matter what happens.
My hope was that at the very least they'd be less likely to publicly shout them down and say they were wrong. Then it would be easier for the message to come across without all the noise.
My hope was that at the very least they'd be less likely to publicly shout them down and say they were wrong. Then it would be easier for the message to come across without all the noise.
You're dealing with irrational people. Rationale wont do any good.
What possessed this "mom" to participate with her son in shooting sports knowing he has Asperger's? - JUST LIKE LANZA
She's probably lucky to be alive herself.
Lock her up.
We have laws against selling / providing firearms to mentally ill people.
She clearly knew he was not right in the head.
Lock her up.
Zundfolge
10-02-2015, 14:14
What possessed this "mom" to participate with her son in shooting sports knowing he has Asperger's?
There are plenty of people in the Asperger's spectrum that would never harm anyone ... hell I bet there's at least a dozen folk that post on this forum regularly that are on the spectrum as well.
I understand the desire for our side to shift the focus away from the guns and toward "mental health issues" but frankly you can enslave a society just as easily by declaring dissent as "mental illness" as you can by disarming the populace (and believe me that is the end goal of those who want to start expanding mental illness screenings).
The REAL issue is that we live in a broken world and are members of a broken species and the only way you're EVER going to prevent bad people from doing bad things with guns (or any weapon for that matter) is to make sure that there are more armed good people.
The truth that nobody will ever acknowledge is that we'd be better off getting rid of all gun laws and issuing everyone a handgun, rifle and shotgun when they turn 18 (regardless of "mental health" or criminal record) then we would be with more restrictions on law abiding citizens.
68Charger
10-02-2015, 14:40
The point about mental illness is this guy would have been dangerous without guns...
Getting help to the people that need it before they "snap" is the goal (or should be, but there will be people that abuse any power)
I'd say we could make more progress with social engineering that reduces the stigma around mental health services, instead of the current state goal of social engineering that anyone who owns guns is a "gun nut" and continuing to brainwash people that guns are evil.
But I don't think that fits their agenda...
I think the is a stigma around any kind of help. There are probably adults who can't swim or ride a bike, and even though those are pretty inane skills in daily life, I bet they aren't advertising the fact and openly asking people to help them.
I think the is a stigma around any kind of help. There are probably adults who can't swim or ride a bike, and even though those are pretty inane skills in daily life, I bet they aren't advertising the fact and openly asking people to help them.
What? You completely lost me.
Are you comparing people not knowing how to ride a bike with people who are mentally ill mass murder time-bombs?
Wow
68Charger
10-02-2015, 15:08
I think the is a stigma around any kind of help. There are probably adults who can't swim or ride a bike, and even though those are pretty inane skills in daily life, I bet they aren't advertising the fact and openly asking people to help them.
I'd venture to say that it's not the same level of stigma, but I see your point.
"seeing a shrink" can start all kinds of rumors that could escalate and lead to people avoiding you, rather than just laughing about you behind your back.
No davsel, I'm saying people have a hard time asking for help with simple things that don't really matter if they get help or not; so one can imagine how much more reluctant people are to get help with things that are much more important than merely riding a bicycle. That's just an observation of how people act when they have a problem that they can recognize and to which they can admit. That is just the surface. There are plenty of people who don't think they have a problem at all, and beyond them, people who CAN'T recognize that they have a mental issue.
I'm not going to read through 10 pages of postings so forgive me if you've seen this:
It appears the killers guns were all purchased legally.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/02/witnesses-say-oregon-gunman-targeted-christians-in-community-college-shooting/?intcmp=hpbt3
In my view, "social stigma" is an excuse that we can no longer afford to entertain - if we ever could.
If you know of someone who is obviously off their rocker and they own guns, you are complicit in any criminal act they commit and should be held accountable.
These two "moms" who took their obviously wacked-out sons to shooting ranges, gave them access to guns - if not purchased them for them - are complicit in the murders that their sons committed and, if alive, should be tried and locked up.
Maybe that will make the next "mom" think twice before taking her defective son away from the video game and into the real world to "play" with real guns for his enjoyment.
We need wacked-out defective people control, not gun control.
Don't get me started on the culpability of the drug companies, doctors, and pharmacies with their misinformation concerning SSRIs.
One thing that annoys me about news coverage, as I'm sure it does everyone else, is that the media keeps guns as the focus by reporting what other guns the person had and saying that they've been "recovered." Those guns are irrelevant, and unless they were ditched during the crime, they were not "recovered."
Dave, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a mother who believes her child capable of murder, even in the face of overwhelming evidence. Most parents are so ecstatic to have their children's attention at all, that they likely welcome engaging them in activities that they usually wouldn't. I hear what you're saying, but people can't even raise pets without completely screwing them up. Sadly, it's a tall order to expect people to do what is right for their children. They never seem to realize their mistakes until it is way too late. As you already mentioned, the Lanza's are a perfect example.
I just want to add that just because it is unlikely that everyone will be a great parent, is no reason to not demand such. Just because standards are difficult to meet, is no reason to not have standards. I know my last post didn't come across that way.
Hero Chris Mintz shot as he faced Oregon community college shooter (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/hero-chris-mintz-shot-as-he-faced-oregon-community-college-shooter/ar-AAf1RjU?li=AAa0dzB)
"Let me be very clear: I will not name the shooter," Douglas County Sheriff John Hanlin said at an evening press conference on Thursday. "Focus your attention on the victims and their families and helping them recover." Federal law enforcement officials nevertheless identified the shooter as C**** M*****, who lived in the area.
On social media, the hashtag #ChrisMintz is trending as people share his story and offer support for his family and the other victims.
There has been a push from authorities and many of the victims' families not to use the alleged shooter’s name. One person tweeted, "I haven't seen the shooter's name once, but I know the name Chris Mintz."
I will say this -- I haven't seen the shooter's name once, but I know the name Chris Mintz.
— Daniel Kunka (@unikunka) October 2, 2015 (https://twitter.com/unikunka/status/649979973562818560)
Others praised Mintz's service to his country and bravery in the face of death.
I'm so PROUD of my brother *ARMY* veteran, Chris Mintz! A ***BIG*** "HOOAH!" to you, brave soldier! #BeAllYouCanBe (https://twitter.com/hashtag/BeAllYouCanBe?src=hash)pic.twitter.com/1Ul61qJdCW (http://t.co/1Ul61qJdCW)
— LTC Hunter (@LTC_Hunter) October 2, 2015 (https://twitter.com/LTC_Hunter/status/649937871370063872)
Thank God he survived. Thank you, Chris Mintz, for putting your life on the line to try to save others. Again.
— Vesa, of Harrogath (@VesamoraAIE) October 2, 2015 (https://twitter.com/VesamoraAIE/status/649823713240686592)
Unfortunately, there will likely be some confusion, and many will associate Chris Mintz as the shooter, instead of the defender and hero, due to the name/initials similarity.
People don't care enough anymore to be bothered with facts.
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Zundfolge
10-02-2015, 17:44
We need wacked-out defective people control, not gun control.
I don't disagree. However in the current climate in academia, psychology circles and politics I'm more concerned that the Statists will use greater "wacked-out defective people control" as both a bludgeon to use against their political enemies and a means of back door gun control.
Believe me there are plenty of academics and practicing psychologists/psychiatrists/psychotherapists that would swiftly label every single one of us here as "wacked-out and defective" because we have an interest in guns. And have no problem with our 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th amendment rights be eliminated "for the greater good" (hell many would have no problem rounding us up and executing us).
The better solution is to not worry about the nut-jobs ... just make sure the good people have unfettered access to the tools of self defense and the problem will become self correcting.
Maximum freedom is always the best solution.
Zundfolge
10-02-2015, 18:10
Ya know, I don't know if the Oregon shooter was Muslim (I suspect he is not ... he's just enamored of "violent revolutionaries" and thus respects them).
I do, however, wonder if Islamic terrorism isn't still at work here.
Just a few things (that admittedly could all be coincidence):
The shooter was linked to Mahmoud Ali Ehsani on social media (but also to the IRA and we know he's not Irish Catholic).
ISIS has claimed responsibility for the attack (of course they could just be trying to cash in).
Alek Skarlatos (one of the heroes that stopped the terrorist attack in the train in France) was a student at this small, somewhat unknown community college.
Just makes one wonder. Is he a "sleeper" operative for some Islamofascist group? Or is this just all coincidental?
Great-Kazoo
10-02-2015, 18:31
Ya know, I don't know if the Oregon shooter was Muslim (I suspect he is not ... he's just enamored of "violent revolutionaries" and thus respects them).
I do, however, wonder if Islamic terrorism isn't still at work here.
Just a few things (that admittedly could all be coincidence):
The shooter was linked to Mahmoud Ali Ehsani on social media (but also to the IRA and we know he's not Irish Catholic).
ISIS has claimed responsibility for the attack (of course they could just be trying to cash in).
Alek Skarlatos (one of the heroes that stopped the terrorist attack in the train in France) was a student at this small, somewhat unknown community college.
Just makes one wonder. Is he a "sleeper" operative for some Islamofascist group? Or is this just all coincidental?
B. You need some sleep.
That whole string isn't tied together very well. Now there are some truthers who could run with it, for a year of so.
Zundfolge
10-02-2015, 21:39
B. You need some sleep.
That whole string isn't tied together very well. Now there are some truthers who could run with it, for a year of so.
But ... But ... But ... our precious bodily fluids ...
BushMasterBoy
10-02-2015, 23:58
Asperger Syndrome seems to be a common factor compared to the Tasmania shooter. Martin Bryant killed 35. He dressed weird too. As responsible citizens we have to be profilers too...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Bryant
I thought it was strange when listening to the news coverage how they kept speaking about the school being "locked down" and how they were busing the kids to a local church or something so they could be united with their families. It sounded strange for a college, especially a junior or community college, to keep talking about "kids". These students and victims were largely adults. Some over 60yrs old.
I'm sure the "kids" angle came from the media because the college just refers to them as students.
Not sure what "lock down" means to students who are not minors. I certainly understand that the campus was a crime scene and that people probably couldn't just get in their cars and drive away but they spoke about students being holed up for hours waiting to be told they could leave. Could they not just leave?
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Great-Kazoo
10-03-2015, 08:44
Anytime there's a shooting it's always KIDS OR CHILDREN who have been taken from us due to senseless gun violence. Come on Man get with the program, it's the 21st century.
If it was a senior rest home, they'd find a way to use the "children" angle
I have no idea what the students on campus were told about leaving or not.
In general, legality at a crime scene is determined by exigent circumstances. The courts have recognized that this exception to the 4th amendment warrant requirement is legal under special needs cases. The ability of authority to detain witnesses is weighed against the severity of the crime, the duration of the detention, the options of other less intrusive methods for gathering evidence, and the type of evidence that can be provided by the detained person(s).
In cases like Oregon; an extreme criminal act, the officers on the scene first make the scene safe. Then they render aid. Lastly, they identify, protect, and gather evidence. In reality, many of these things overlap and they are not linear. Hours after a scene is determined "safe" the injured are evacuated, and the evidence is being gathered, something can change and the scene may become unsafe or more injured can be located.
Are the actions of law enforcement officials on the scene "reasonable?" That is generally the standards courts use to determine whether something is legal. "Reasonable" is a subjective standard determined by the perspective of the person judging the action. It is a moving standard and most people have an opinion about what it means given the circumstances. There will normally be disagreements about what is "reasonable" in any given circumstance.
As for the use of the term "kids" for people over the age of 18. I have a personal pet peeve with the concept of "teenager" as it is used since the 20th century in the U.S. IMO, people are adults or children. The two standards I use to determine whether a person is an adult or child are; chronological age (when were they born), and ability to act responsibly (maturity). For me, 12 years old seems to be a good line on chronological age between childhood and adulthood. Maturity is much tougher for me and I believe most of our society. We all know 30 year olds who behave like children and are either incapable or refuse to act responsibly. I believe we do a disservice to people when we prolong the period of childhood by limiting responsibility and retarding someone's normal growth and maturity. Just my $.02
Be safe.
If a gun is purchased illegally but never used to commit another crime and that crime of illegal purchase is never prosecuted, the gun is unused evidence. The gun itself never commits a crime. The gun is not capable of committing a crime. The gun, like hands, feet, rocks, hammers, etc. can only be used to commit a crime.
Making things illegal does not stop crimes. It only creates contraband; a thing that is illegal to possess.
IMO our society is focusing on the instruments while lamenting the music and glorifying the bad musicians.
Be safe.
Great-Kazoo
10-03-2015, 10:42
If a gun is purchased illegally but never used to commit another crime and that crime of illegal purchase is never prosecuted, the gun is unused evidence. The gun itself never commits a crime. The gun is not capable of committing a crime. The gun, like hands, feet, rocks, hammers, etc. can only be used to commit a crime.
Making things illegal does not stop crimes. It only creates contraband; a thing that is illegal to possess.
IMO our society is focusing on the instruments while lamenting the music and glorifying the bad musicians.
Be safe.
BUT, BUT. Without Guns there would be less killings.
If only i could tell the story i want to. But prohibited from due to disclosure..
If you know of someone who is obviously off their rocker and they own guns, you are complicit in any criminal act they commit and should be held accountable.
-yeah, not so much.
"obviously off their rocker" is a matter of opinion and shy of an MD in psychiatry, I'm not keen on people calling up and reporting neighbors. if that's the goal, CA has a new law on the books that you'd love.
BUT, BUT. Without Guns there would be less killings.
...and without Confederate flags there is less racism.
Great-Kazoo
10-03-2015, 18:01
...and without Confederate flags there is less racism.
Ban Bed Sheets, just in case. The levels of stupidity to try and intervene prior to a crime isn't feasible. Unless we become good russians or germans. Then worry about Mrs. Kravits peeking out their window.
BushMasterBoy
10-03-2015, 18:35
The only good news is the murderer committed suicide.
The only good news is the murderer committed suicide.
That should have been step 1 in his plan.
SideShow Bob
10-04-2015, 17:59
I thought it was strange when listening to the news coverage how they kept speaking about the school being "locked down" and how they were busing the kids to a local church or something so they could be united with their families. It sounded strange for a college, especially a junior or community college, to keep talking about "kids". These students and victims were largely adults. Some over 60yrs old.
I'm sure the "kids" angle came from the media because the college just refers to them as students.
Not sure what "lock down" means to students who are not minors. I certainly understand that the campus was a crime scene and that people probably couldn't just get in their cars and drive away but they spoke about students being holed up for hours waiting to be told they could leave. Could they not just leave?
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Also, being mostly adults, having everyone line up with hands raised, then searched, a wholesale violation of their fourth amendment rights ?
Just as the Aurora police did a couple of years back when they shut down an intersection on public roads and search everyone and their vehicles just because they had some information that a bank robber was supposedly in that area ?
I'm ready to do just about whatever the police ask for or even demand in that situation and sort it out later if I don't agree. I was mostly just wondering if adult students have options that children students do not.
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These 'gun control' ideas from the left would have done nothing to address the issues in this shooting. Why should gun manufacturers be punished when nobody else could read the minds of those that misused the product?
Zundfolge
10-05-2015, 08:26
These 'gun control' ideas from the left would have done nothing to address the issues in this shooting. Why should gun manufacturers be punished when nobody else could read the minds of those that misused the product?
Because its not about preventing shootings its about eroding rights.
Because its not about preventing shootings its about eroding rights.
But only the rights they feel aren't important/necessary in our advanced society.
Zundfolge
10-05-2015, 09:25
But only the rights they feel aren't important/necessary in our advanced society.
The left only supports two "rights"; Buggery and Infanticide.
The left only supports two "rights"; Buggery and Infanticide.
Lolz, Thanks!
Hearing the hoopla about this, yet another shooting, at yet another gun-free-zone, in some small town, USA, at XYZ location, blah blah blah, the antis jumping at the chance to get on their usual soapbox and say "look! It happened again! When are we ever going to have the discussion about common sense gun control?" Guess what? We have the conversation every single time this happens, and it's the same thing, a bunch of BS talk and no real answers. Background checks, they work, they keep criminals from purchasing guns from lawful sources- yet they still buy them from unlawful sources. "If only guns weren't available to criminals." There are laws making it so they shouldn't be, yet they still get their hands on them. Meth is illegal, yet it still is manufactured and sold in nearly every large town/city in America. Attacking the wrong side of the problem, yet again. So many on the left continually ignore the fact that you cannot avert every tragedy on earth. Bad things happen, it's a risk we take with living.
For note: the anti-gun lobby is not exactly anti-gun, they just want to pick and choose WHO has the guns. They will use people with guns to take away the guns from those they don't want to have guns, if they get their way. This rhetoric continues and it solves nothing. Of course I'm not providing any new info to any of you here, we all know this. Why is it that when some asshole goes and kills people, the first response of the left is to punish those who had nothing to do with it? Simple answer, they're morons.
Zundfolge
10-05-2015, 16:11
Why is it that when some asshole goes and kills people, the first response of the left is to punish those who had nothing to do with it? Simple answer, they're morons.
You're giving them too much credit. They're not morons, they're evil. Hanlon's razor is a lie.
You're giving them too much credit. They're not morons, they're evil. Hanlon's razor is a lie.
I gladly find myself corrected on this issue. [Beer]
Hearing the hoopla about this, yet another shooting, at yet another gun-free-zone, in some small town, USA, at XYZ location, blah blah blah, the antis jumping at the chance to get on their usual soapbox and say "look! It happened again! When are we ever going to have the discussion about common sense gun control?" Guess what? We have the conversation every single time this happens, and it's the same thing, a bunch of BS talk and no real answers. Background checks, they work, they keep criminals from purchasing guns from lawful sources- yet they still buy them from unlawful sources. "If only guns weren't available to criminals." There are laws making it so they shouldn't be, yet they still get their hands on them. Meth is illegal, yet it still is manufactured and sold in nearly every large town/city in America. Attacking the wrong side of the problem, yet again. So many on the left continually ignore the fact that you cannot avert every tragedy on earth. Bad things happen, it's a risk we take with living.
For note: the anti-gun lobby is not exactly anti-gun, they just want to pick and choose WHO has the guns. They will use people with guns to take away the guns from those they don't want to have guns, if they get their way. This rhetoric continues and it solves nothing. Of course I'm not providing any new info to any of you here, we all know this. Why is it that when some asshole goes and kills people, the first response of the left is to punish those who had nothing to do with it? Simple answer, they're morons.
FIFY,
Also, be careful with the blanket gun-free zone statement on this one. It was certainly advertised/posted as such from what I've read, but legal CHP holders in Oregon, not including the faculty and staff there, were in fact permitted to carry on that campus. The real concern is with several key issues (still to be fully vetted.)
1. The campus is posted "no weapons allowed." That is misleading to say the least. Is there prominent Concealed Permit Holders Exempt signage?
2. At least one CHP holder, also ex mil, was persuaded/forbidden by faculty to not get involved for fear he would be interfering and could be potentially mistaken for the active shooter.
It's a damn shame Chris Mintz wasn't packing. This would be another in the growing list of "Mass shootings stopped by a good guy with a gun."
68Charger
10-05-2015, 20:10
You're giving them too much credit. They're not morons, they're evil. Hanlon's razor is a lie.
I gladly find myself corrected on this issue. [Beer]
I'll stick with Occam's razor... if the most simple explanation is that the politician is EVIL (or allows themselves to be influenced by evil forces), then that's likely the cause.
I brought up Occam's razor to my boss in the last few weeks- he'd never heard of it. As a geek/engineer, it's a driving force in daily decisions.
68Charger
10-05-2015, 20:14
2. At least one CHP holder, also ex mil, was persuaded/forbidden by faculty to not get involved for fear he would be interfering and could be potentially mistaken for the active shooter.
It's a damn shame Chris Mintz wasn't packing. This would be another in the growing list of "Mass shootings stopped by a good guy with a gun."
source on this?
If there's any lessoned to be learned here (and not a new one for me)... do NOT accept advise from non-combatants on how to engage a combatant. (ESPECIALLY in a college campus or other environment riddled with liberals)
If there are lives to be saved, you ARE putting yourself in danger- my response would be (in ADDITION to that ASSHAT shooting me? I'll take my chances...)
source on this?
If there's any lessoned to be learned here (and not a new one for me)... do NOT accept advise from non-combatants on how to engage a combatant. (ESPECIALLY in a college campus or other environment riddled with liberals)
If there are lives to be saved, you ARE putting yourself in danger- my response would be (in ADDITION to that ASSHAT shooting me? I'll take my chances...)
I should clarify. They cannot ban carry on school grounds, but apparently did have the authority and a policy of no carry in buildings and classrooms.
Google "oregon campus concealed carry." Several reliable sources including http://www.armedcampuses.org/
I'd be curious if they've ever actually granted anyone their rights back through "written permission."
Umpqua Community College As of March 2015, Concealed carry was not permitted, except by written permission by college https://web.archive.org/web/20150317085529/http://umpqua.edu/resources-and-services/academic/student-code-of-conduct?showall=&start=4
I should clarify. They cannot ban carry on school grounds, but apparently did have the authority and a policy of no carry in buildings and classrooms.
Google "oregon campus concealed carry." Several reliable sources including http://www.armedcampuses.org/
I'd be curious if they've ever actually granted anyone their rights back through "written permission."
I attended the University of Wyoming which had a similar concealed carry stance. However, no one had ever been granted permission to carry regardless of the circumstance.
DavieD55
10-06-2015, 04:42
I don't disagree. However in the current climate in academia, psychology circles and politics I'm more concerned that the Statists will use greater "wacked-out defective people control" as both a bludgeon to use against their political enemies and a means of back door gun control.
Believe me there are plenty of academics and practicing psychologists/psychiatrists/psychotherapists that would swiftly label every single one of us here as "wacked-out and defective" because we have an interest in guns. And have no problem with our 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th amendment rights be eliminated "for the greater good" (hell many would have no problem rounding us up and executing us).
The better solution is to not worry about the nut-jobs ... just make sure the good people have unfettered access to the tools of self defense and the problem will become self correcting.
Maximum freedom is always the best solution.
Exactly.
BushMasterBoy
10-06-2015, 07:18
The left only supports two "rights"; Buggery and Infanticide.
You forgot Atheism. God forbid we offend anybody!
Great-Kazoo
10-06-2015, 11:02
You forgot Atheism. God forbid we offend anybody!
PETS ARE PEOPLE ! you forgot them.
You forgot Atheism. God forbid we offend anybody!
So few true athiests, but your statement is funny nonetheless.
So few true athiests, but your statement is funny nonetheless.
But the true atheists are sure to let you know.
Rucker61
10-06-2015, 22:58
But the true atheists are sure to let you know.
God forbid they're vegans into crossfit, too.
You forgot Atheism. God forbid we offend anybody!
The true 'atheists' I've known, don't care if others have a belief in God. If you tell them "Merry Christmas!", they understand that you're wishing them well and aren't militant about it. Why would someone be offended by something that they truly don't believe exists?
buffalobo
10-07-2015, 07:38
Same reason LBGT minority needs to beat you over the head and force you to consider them normal and mainstream.
That method of "acceptance" doesn't work out very well...in the end.
Hmm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3263637/Before-school-shooters-Eerie-similarities-Oregon-gunman-Chris-Harper-Mercer-Sandy-Hook-assailant-Adam-Lanza-bonded-moms-guns-hid-world-Asperger-s-Syndrome.html
Mothers of monsters: How the single moms of Oregon shooter Chris Harper-Mercer and Sandy Hook gunman Adam Lanza both bonded with their sons over guns and ignored their descent into madness
Lock her up.
Lock her up.
My wife agrees.
http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/kn100715dAPR20151007054520.jpg
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