View Full Version : Obama Townhall Saturday in Grand Junction, Colo
Obama Townhall for Health Care Saturday in Grand Junction, Colo
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124994653098120945.html
Chicken shit is having 2 of the 3, in out of the way locations, Grand Junction and Bozeman.
I hope we got some people here that can make it.
hopefully people ream his ass. i wish he would understand that when a shit ton of people (waaayyy over 50%) do not want this to drop it.
the only people that want this are the lazy liberal fucks who want something for nothing and the people living on welfare.
I pay for my medical and my fiance pays for medical. I don't see why people can't pay for their own shit instead of wanting the government to take care of it for them in the form of taxes.
theGinsue
08-12-2009, 00:22
I'm with you all on this. The media is reporting that while attendees are violent and agressive (quotes from the media) at events hosted by members of Congress, so far folks have been "very respectful" to him. It would be great to have such a different result in GJ that even the lib media would have to report a new outcome. Sadly, from my experience in attending events like this, those with dissenting opinions are filtered out from being able to attend to the greatest extent possible.
During the election I recall folks in Grand Junction from this site saying that the city has shown a serious turn towards Liberalism. I hope those folks who have never fallen under his spell, and those who've finally come out of his hypnotic trance will show in numbers that he, and the lib media, can't ignore. Surely lib power players such a Pelosi will continue to try to sell to the nation that all of the hoopla against this "reform" is nothing more than choreographed "astroturf" protests - organized by the GOP. They don't want those poorly informed to realize that the protests represent a small sample of the true national public opinion on this topic - the people just don't want this!
As far as this "reform" goes... I agree with the precept that fighting a horrible disease shouldn't bankrupt a family, but this is definitely NOT the way to correct the problem. To take from those who have - who were willing to work for it and sacrifice some of the nice-ities and extra dinners out so they can afford healthcare - and just hand it over to those who are unwilling to work or sacrifice is nothing short of government enforced stealing. How about reforming the healthcare insurance industry who take your faithfully paid premiums to simply deny essential care out of hand (research Actuarial Tables and view the movie The Rainmaker for examples of how this happens every day).
The proponents are selling this "reform" under the guise of "availability to healthcare for all". We've had a few of our national elected officials tell us the true nature of thier "reform" - people needing care will have to accept their circumstances and "sacrifice". What we aren't being told is that the only level of care you'll get is for the common cold and other minor illnesses/injuries. Much of the "care" that is currently "available" will have to become unavailable due to the cost of such care (research examples of how this occured in Canada and the U.K.).
We've heard that the Fed's are considering imposing "fat taxes" on things like soda and fast food. How long before the government looks at your lifestyle and sees that you enjoy a couple of sodas/day and a Big Mac once a week and translates that to the cause of your excess weight or high blood pressure and decides that you don't get "care" because you've made intentional bad health choices? Sure, this sounds tin-foil hat preposterous but who would have thought it possible 5 years ago that 1 man could triple our national debt in the first 5 months of his presidency?
Personally I'd prefer the government quit meddling in affairs that relate to my health - I honestly believe my chances of survival will be much better that way!
Who's down for a car pool road trip from the Northern area?
I'm with you all on this. The media is reporting that while attendees are violent and agressive (quotes from the media) at events hosted by members of Congress,
Just to clarify a couple of things... are you implying that the media is spinning what is going on at these meetings to make it sound like people are being violent and aggressive? Because I have been watching some of the footage and people ARE being violent and aggressive at these meetings.
Much of the "care" that is currently "available" will have to become unavailable due to the cost of such care (research examples of how this occured in Canada and the U.K.).
And yet health care in the UK still manages to be ranked higher than that here. I mean I am aware, thanks to that Investor's Business Daily editorial, that if Stephen Hawking was born in the UK he wouldn't have survived because the bureaucracy would have deemed his life not worth prolonging, but I am also aware that a lot of the unfavourable comparisons that are floating around are based on out of date data.
I'm in for tickets. [Beer]
most americans support and are eager for obama's med plans.
it's a vast right wing conspiracy that's planting fake troublemakers in the audiences.
such low tactics. liberals and democrats have never had to organize demonstrations, have always respected the speakers at the podium, and have never, ever used plants in the audience.
heh
You only need a ticket to get in, those are filtered and if you make it your questions may need to be approved.
You do not need a ticket to excerise your 1st rights, if you have missed out latly the crowds have been showing up outside the healtcare events and evens Obama's one in NH the other day.
Yes Obama himself will be there.
As for the crock about the UK healthcarre, i sure hope you were joking, if not put down the koolaid and stop watching that fat lards movies.
Go try it out some time, oh and bring your wallet thay take cash. Be prepared to wait some time to get in for actual treatment.
Dont belive me, go talk to some people that imigrated to the USA form the UK and ask how top notch it is.
Go watch the PBS special on world healthcare, they compare the top healthcare around the world, if after that you still think the UK is top notch, you must have had the tv on mute. The UK healthcare is falling apart.
britain, like canada, has great healthcase if youre healthy. if you get stage 3 cancer, its not so great. some things in this country are extremely expensive health care wise, but what do you expect, its health care! any idea how much it costs to develop a simple cholesterol lowering drug? its pretty mind blowing. luckily in america we are always on the cutting edge of medical technology. if you need an expensive surgery and can't afford it, at least in this country you can raise the funds and get support from others. while it may be expensive, there are options, thats the beauty. in canada and britain, if they say no, you are 100% screwed. not a thing you can do. (well, canadians can come here and pay cash, but i don't think that counts because thats just another perk of our system). our health care needs to be reformed, make no mistake about it. but there are small changes that can be made that could make a big difference. if nothing else, why not try it first before ramming a hugely expensive change down our throats before anyone can even read the thing? its the same thing with the stimulus, why not focus the money and energy on specific things instead of trying to get it fixed with the shotgun effect. its like if youre car wasn't running properly and instead of taking the time to find out what it is and be efficient, you went out and bought a new car. it makes no sense
As for the crock about the UK healthcarre, i sure hope you were joking, if not put down the koolaid and stop watching that fat lards movies.
Go try it out some time, oh and bring your wallet thay take cash. Be prepared to wait some time to get in for actual treatment.
Dont belive me, go talk to some people that imigrated to the USA form the UK and ask how top notch it is.
Go watch the PBS special on world healthcare, they compare the top healthcare around the world, if after that you still think the UK is top notch, you must have had the tv on mute. The UK healthcare is falling apart.
I'm actually from the UK, so I have tried out the NHS many times and the most I have ever had to pay for anything was about $10 for a prescription (this is the standard rate for anyone over 18, employed, and under pensionable age, regardless of the amount or type of medication you are getting). I would love to understand why when I am referring to both personal experience and facts to back up my claims, and you're using hyperbolic scare emails to back up yours, I'm the one who has drunk the koolaid.
There is no perfect healthcare system out there, and I am not going to deny that the NHS has its problems, but almost all of the 'information' that I have read about the British healthcare system recently has been completely bogus.
Ah, I just realised what you meant with your 'fat lard' comment. I haven't seen Sicko. I saw Bowling for Columbine when I was still living in the UK, and I saw Fahrenheit 9/11 when I lived in Florida, but I find him to be a little too strident even for me, and I would consider myself a liberal.
Just to clarify a couple of things... are you implying that the media is spinning what is going on at these meetings to make it sound like people are being violent and aggressive? Because I have been watching some of the footage and people ARE being violent and aggressive at these meetings.
And yet health care in the UK still manages to be ranked higher than that here. I mean I am aware, thanks to that Investor's Business Daily editorial, that if Stephen Hawking was born in the UK he wouldn't have survived because the bureaucracy would have deemed his life not worth prolonging, but I am also aware that a lot of the unfavourable comparisons that are floating around are based on out of date data.
My grandmother had her hip replaced in the UK same docor that did the queens. When she got back here she had to lay in a hospital bed for 4 months while the bone healed enough to have a new replacement done. The hospital that it was done at was a stables, and arena before ww2. So the ratings may be a little inflated.
My grandmother had her hip replaced in the UK same docor that did the queens. When she got back here she had to lay in a hospital bed for 4 months while the bone healed enough to have a new replacement done. The hospital that it was done at was a stables, and arena before ww2. So the ratings may be a little inflated.
Yes, you said that in another thread, and in the same thread I replied that about three years ago I took my wife to the ER in Florida in need of emergency surgery and she was sent home because "it's Christmas so no one will be available to see you." When she was finally seen, after Christmas at another hopsital, the doctor was aghast at this decision as it could have cost her life. So my anecdote cancels out your anecdote and they both prove nothing.
My grandmother has had both of her hips replaced with no post surgical complications at all. It sounds like your grandmother was unfortunately unlucky and I hope that she is doing better now, but I don't know if it can really be blamed on the health service in the UK.
As for the history of the hospital she was treated at, I've no doubt that was true. A hospital in my home town was formerly a workhouse pre World War One (it's no longer there, but has finally been replaced by a modern building). Britain is a smaller country that the United States so especially in urban areas we don't always have the space to build modern buildings. However inside those buildings, the equipment is as up to date as anything I would expect to find here.
A couple of facts (facts) from 2006. Based on a per capita yearly spend of $6700 in the US and $2800 in the UK, the UK offers almost the same number of doctors per 10,000 people, substantially more nurses per 10,000 people, more hospital beds per 10,000 people and a higher life expectancy at birth. Not bad for a system that is apparently falling apart.
I'd say I've lived all over Europe, and the US. I'll take my chances with our current healthcare system rather than use theirs. As far as the cost goes you left out the part where they pay higher taxes to make up the difference.
Before It goes any farther though we should agree to disagree on this point. I am not trying to change anyones view. Mine is simply if I wnted socialized medicine I would move to a socialist country, or in Englands case a "parliamentary monarchy".
example of socialized medicine...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw
ill pass.
Before It goes any farther though we should agree to disagree on this point. I am not trying to change anyones view. Mine is simply if I wnted socialized medicine I would move to a socialist country, or in Englands case a "parliamentary monarchy".
I'm not really trying to change anyone's mind, and I'm sure that most people who read this will remain utterly convinced that the NHS is a horrendous system which rations healthcare and routinely leaves those it deems 'worthless' to die, but for most Britons the NHS is an enormous source of pride and I would imagine almost everyone who was born in the UK has at least one reason to be enormously grateful to it. So, just as you would feel compelled to step in if a group of people with very little experience of it were pontificating on the pros and cons of the Second Amendment, naturally I get defensive about the lies and disinformation I am exposed to daily as healthcare reform in this country is debated. Especially when the reforms that are being proposed here would lead to a system that's nothing like the NHS.
And fyi, Britain is not a socialist country, not is it a "parliamentary monarchy." It's a parliamentary democracy. The queen is a titular figurehead with no real power who on balance costs the country nothing.
And on the subject of taxation, well, I'm not tax expert, but a brief look at tax rates over here (I leave that to our accountant and just let my wife sign the check at tax time :D) suggests that taxation is actually a little bit higher here than there. Of course it's hard to compare as the UK only has three tax brackets and not six, and then there's no state income tax over there, nor sales tax, and I believe that wages are comparatively higher there too, but on the whole, I don't really think that paying slightly higher taxes for healthcare of a comparable quality (sorry, but it is) that is available to EVERYONE without any cost is such a bad deal. I guess that makes me a socialist.
I'm not really trying to change anyone's mind, and I'm sure that most people who read this will remain utterly convinced that the NHS is a horrendous system which rations healthcare and routinely leaves those it deems 'worthless' to die, but for most Britons the NHS is an enormous source of pride and I would imagine almost everyone who was born in the UK has at least one reason to be enormously grateful to it. So, just as you would feel compelled to step in if a group of people with very little experience of it were pontificating on the pros and cons of the Second Amendment, naturally I get defensive about the lies and disinformation I am exposed to daily as healthcare reform in this country is debated. Especially when the reforms that are being proposed here would lead to a system that's nothing like the NHS.
And fyi, Britain is not a socialist country, not is it a "parliamentary monarchy." It's a parliamentary democracy. The queen is a titular figurehead with no real power who on balance costs the country nothing.
And on the subject of taxation, well, I'm not tax expert, but a brief look at tax rates over here (I leave that to our accountant and just let my wife sign the check at tax time :D) suggests that taxation is actually a little bit higher here than there. Of course it's hard to compare as the UK only has three tax brackets and not six, and then there's no state income tax over there, nor sales tax, and I believe that wages are comparatively higher there too, but on the whole, I don't really think that paying slightly higher taxes for healthcare of a comparable quality (sorry, but it is) that is available to EVERYONE without any cost is such a bad deal. I guess that makes me a socialist.
THE UK does not allow firearms to be owned like we do here in the states. we have freedoms. they have allotments given to them. that is the difference and we fought to get away from them for a reason.
MichiganMilitia
08-13-2009, 23:29
THE UK does not allow firearms to be owned like we do here in the states. we have freedoms. they have allotments given to them. that is the difference and we fought to get away from them for a reason.
+1
THE UK does not allow firearms to be owned like we do here in the states. we have freedoms. they have allotments given to them. that is the difference and we fought to get away from them for a reason.
I'm not entirely sure what point you are trying to make, but in case you weren't paying attention, I am actually FROM the UK. I didn't just live there for a while, I was born there, grew up there and only emigrated to the United States when I was 29, so if you would like to educate me about what freedoms we enjoy in the UK, and how we were all stripped of our firearms by a fascist government, go right ahead, and I will be more than happy to correct your misconceptions afterwards.
And yes, before anyone links to it, I have watched that video about gun laws in the UK, and yes, it's mostly nonsense and the huge 'pro-gun' rallies they show taking place in London are actually people protesting about the banning of hunting foxes with hounds and horses.
Just like comparing healthcare reform here with a completely socialized health service in the UK, comparing gun laws here and in the UK is like comparing apples and oranges.
I also see no reason to try to make every country the same - or every State for that matter. You like the UK's systems - great. Don't be too annoyed if we don't. People always have the option of moving to the UK if they truly love it's system. I see absolutely no reason for those people to try to make us UK #2. Diversity is a good thing.
There's a reason our ancestors left the UK to start their own country a few years back.
I'm not entirely sure what point you are trying to make, but in case you weren't paying attention, I am actually FROM the UK. I didn't just live there for a while, I was born there, grew up there and only emigrated to the United States when I was 29, so if you would like to educate me about what freedoms we enjoy in the UK, and how we were all stripped of our firearms by a fascist government, go right ahead, and I will be more than happy to correct your misconceptions afterwards.
And yes, before anyone links to it, I have watched that video about gun laws in the UK, and yes, it's mostly nonsense and the huge 'pro-gun' rallies they show taking place in London are actually people protesting about the banning of hunting foxes with hounds and horses.
Just like comparing healthcare reform here with a completely socialized health service in the UK, comparing gun laws here and in the UK is like comparing apples and oranges.
I saw that you are from the UK.
YOU can go back since YOU seem to love it soo much.
better jump on the AMERICA band wagon because that is where you are at, NOT in the UK.
Like I said, start to enjoy the US for what it is, don't try to change it into the UK that YOU LEFT. If you want your UK sooo badly, then GO BACK TO IT.
Then there wasn't a big media circus and panic in the UK about finding a "live 22 round" on a doorstep? Oh my goodness, if detonated, it could kill somebody!
Pray tell, how recently did you emigrate? And please note, I'm not trying to pick on you, not trying to mob you. UK Firearm "freedom" is nothing like what we have in America. I know of many UK visitors that specifically want to shoot when they come here just because they don't have the real luxury to do so at home. Is it all a big conspiracy and they all make BS up just to get pity? Yes, you can have a firearm in the UK. No, it is nothing like what you can have here. And, it has gotten worse over there in recent years, so if you came here.. 5, 10, 15 years ago, whatever - well, past experience isn't exactly live experience.
PS: With the number of spilled 22 shells in the nooks and crannies of my truck bed, I'd probably be labeled a terrorist were my truck parked in the UK. I don't call that FREE.
Taking your points one by one, regarding the finding of a .22 round, what you have to understand is that hardly ANYONE in the UK owns a firearm, so finding live ammunition in the street is a bigger deal than it would be to you or me. It's not that everyone in the UK is a pansy who is terrified of guns, it's that there is practically zero gun culture over there.
I emigrated 6 years ago. My wife is from Miami, and when we married we decided to make our life there. How I came to end up in Colorado is another matter, involving hurricanes, insurance premiums and the housing crash. UK firearm freedom is nothing like here, because, as I said, there was never really a firearm culture there. The current restrictions on firearms were introduced after the Dunblane massacre as a result of overwhelming public pressure, and resulted in about 50,000 people (that's less than 1% of the population) losing their firearms licences (even before the restrictions, firearms were licenced, and anyone who wanted one had to show a good reason for wanting to own it and allow their security arrangements to be inspected by the police).
It's really almost impossible for an American to understand (and NO offence is intended here) the differences, because to you, the idea of having to apply for a licence and submit to a police inspection would be an abhorrent idea, but to an Briton who was interested in owning a firearm, that's how it has been for a hundred years.
You're right, many Britons who come here want to shoot, but it's not really from a desire to experience something we are cruelly denied back home, it's more out of curiosity. I suppose the best way to describe it would be if you went to Paris, you would climb the Eiffel Tower, but that doesn't mean you want an Eiffel Tower built in Denver.
As for your PS, once again, it's a difference in culture. If you lived in the UK, you simply wouldn't have .22 shells in your truck. You wouldn't bemoan your lack of freedom, simply because the idea of owning a gun wouldn't be on your radar.
I also see no reason to try to make every country the same - or every State for that matter. You like the UK's systems - great. Don't be too annoyed if we don't. People always have the option of moving to the UK if they truly love it's system. I see absolutely no reason for those people to try to make us UK #2. Diversity is a good thing.
As I said before, I don't have a problem with you not liking the idea of a single payer health service like the NHS. What does annoy me, and I would imagine would annoy you if the roles were reversed, is people making claims about a system that they have never experienced, and that are almost entirely based on lies.
I saw that you are from the UK.
YOU can go back since YOU seem to love it soo much.
better jump on the AMERICA band wagon because that is where you are at, NOT in the UK.
Like I said, start to enjoy the US for what it is, don't try to change it into the UK that YOU LEFT. If you want your UK sooo badly, then GO BACK TO IT.
Yeah, I noticed you just edited your post. The reply I was going to type to your original post was this: if you think that knowing more than you about the culture of the country that I was born in is so offensive, you're welcome to report me to USCIS and attempt to have me deported.
But to reply to what you have edited it to... yeah, I love the country that I was born in. If THAT is so offensive to you, I assume YOU don't love the country you were born in... am I correct?
Now, point me to ANYWHERE in my posts that I said I want to change America to be like the UK.
Don't assume you know anything about how I feel about living here simply from me correcting YOUR misconceptions about where I came from. For your information, and not that it's any of your business, about two weeks ago I mailed my N-400 (application for naturalization). On Wednesday I'm going to be fingerprinted for my FBI background check and going by the current waiting times for the Denver USCIS office I should be taking my citizenship oath in November.
I love living in this country, and I don't ever anticipate returning to the UK to live permanently. That doesn't mean that I am not proud of the country I grew up in, and it doesn't mean that I should let you trumpet the same old mistruths about it without any attempt to redress the balance.
Yeah, I noticed you just edited your post. The reply I was going to type to your original post was this: if you think that knowing more than you about the culture of the country that I was born in is so offensive, you're welcome to report me to USCIS and attempt to have me deported.
But to reply to what you have edited it to... yeah, I love the country that I was born in. If THAT is so offensive to you, I assume YOU don't love the country you were born in... am I correct?
Now, point me to ANYWHERE in my posts that I said I want to change America to be like the UK.
Don't assume you know anything about how I feel about living here simply from me correcting YOUR misconceptions about where I came from. For your information, and not that it's any of your business, about two weeks ago I mailed my N-400 (application for naturalization). On Wednesday I'm going to be fingerprinted for my FBI background check and going by the current waiting times for the Denver USCIS office I should be taking my citizenship oath in November.
I love living in this country, and I don't ever anticipate returning to the UK to live permanently. That doesn't mean that I am not proud of the country I grew up in, and it doesn't mean that I should let you trumpet the same old mistruths about it without any attempt to redress the balance.
Listen jake,
I don't care what you want to show me about the NHS. that is NOT what we have in the United States. that is NOT what we want in the United States.
I don't care about the UK. I want nothing to do with the UK. that is why I don't want to hear any of your blab about how the UK system works whether or not the information i have been told is true or not.
I fly with foreigners all the time, anywhere from the UK, spain, Canada, Russia, Germany, you name it. Any of them I have flown with that had a UHS said our system is much better hands down. First hand, from the mouth of foreigners is where I hear my info, not fucking CNN that you seem to believe.
Thats really great that you want to take your oath and all that. I really don't care as long as you pay your taxes and you don't try to change my country into what you left. If you want back what you left, then go back to it, don't attempt to try to change the things we have here. we built them from the ground up after whipping your guys' ass and we tend to enjoy them and want to keep them the way they are. that is why you will see for the past 80 years the liberal fucktards keep trying to change our health care and they keep failing at it.
So again, I say if you want to LOVE your country that much where you feel like you want to CHANGE MY, I repeat MY country, the United States of America, then get the fuck out.
And take the kenyan with you.
It's also not what you are being offered in the United States so I don't really see what your problem is.
You say that you did notice that I'm from the UK, and then you accuse me of getting my information about the UK from CNN? It's pretty clear that you don't really read (or perhaps comprehend) anything I'm saying because once again you've accused me of trying to change this country into the country I'm from. Again I'll say to you, show me anywhere I have said that.
I'm aware that you don't care about anything I say... it's pretty clear that you're one of those people who doesn't like to have his neat little worldview challenged in any way. If that works for you, that's fantastic. I'd love to know what will happen to that worldview when healthcare is reformed and the country doesn't fall apart, or when "the kenyan's" nationality is proved even more completely than it's already been proved, but I imagine you won't have much to say then apart from throwing around insults.
theGinsue
08-14-2009, 23:16
... or when "the kenyan's" nationality is proved even more completely than it's already been proved, but I imagine you won't have much to say then apart from throwing around insults.
"More completely than it's already been proved"? When? I have watched this particular issue very closely and have seen no such proof yet. In fact, all I've seen is a few politicians claim Obama's Hawaiian birth, but no real birth certificate has yet to be produced. No hospital has even come forward to say "YES, he was born here". Until I see HARD evidence, I'm not willing to accept his claim to the Office of the Presidency of the Unites States.
Okay. I thought this was about the meetings and I see this. So, now I've got to get involved.
Jake, I understand what you say-but you are missing out on the larger picture.
It is called
FREEDOM.
FREEDOM to make our own choices.
FREEDOM to live our lives the way we want.
FREEDOM to do what we want, when we want, where we want and with whom we want.
-These are our GOD GIVEN RIGHTS that NO MAN can put asunder-
All within the boundaries of the law and common sense, of course.
I would imagine that is why you love it here so much-I doubt that it is simply the geography.
I know the UK picture has been twisted a bit by both sides-nonetheless, the Brits have a lot less freedoms to enjoy. One of our favorite historic figures was a Lord from England-who, although he loved his country, fought and thought his way to a new country, one that would have freedoms he couldn't enjoy in his native land. Then he was stripped of his Lordship and more and left his Love and his riches to live out his years in this new, Great Country with his son, who really turned his back on him because of his loyalty to the Motherland-but that is a different and long story. So you have a high horse to ride, be it right or wrong, the standard was set by Ben over 200 years ago. It is what our Country is based on.
DON'T TREAD ON ME.
Plain and simple. We like making our own decisions, not having some moron in Washington or anywhere else making such serious decisions for us. It's OUR choice, not theirs.
Sniper and the rest of us like and love our freedom and will fight and kill and die for it. And I personally will be the first to punch some idiot in the nose over all this and get the ball rolling.
I think you'd best remember that fact. And unless you are willing to do the same, no matter where you came from, it really would be best to leave.
It's also not what you are being offered in the United States so I don't really see what your problem is.
You say that you did notice that I'm from the UK, and then you accuse me of getting my information about the UK from CNN? It's pretty clear that you don't really read (or perhaps comprehend) anything I'm saying because once again you've accused me of trying to change this country into the country I'm from. Again I'll say to you, show me anywhere I have said that.
I'm aware that you don't care about anything I say... it's pretty clear that you're one of those people who doesn't like to have his neat little worldview challenged in any way. If that works for you, that's fantastic. I'd love to know what will happen to that worldview when healthcare is reformed and the country doesn't fall apart, or when "the kenyan's" nationality is proved even more completely than it's already been proved, but I imagine you won't have much to say then apart from throwing around insults.
Listen Jake, I am about ready to label you a dipshit. don't tell me I don't comprehend when you have not read what I wrote.
I told you where I get MY info. I said you must believe I get my info from CNN. get your fucking nose out of the air, put your eyes to the screen and read what I write down, not what you think i am saying. there is a difference. Can you comprehend that?
Before you also shoved your nose higher up in the air saying "in case you didn't know I am from the UK"
get your nose out of the air. This isn't the UK where you walk around all day believing you are better than anyone else around you. Show some respect. I will show you none because you have not come close to earning a single ounce of respect acting the way you do.
Like I and others have said. This is OUR country, land of the free, home of the brave. Key word being FREE. Free does not mean work for nothing, get something for nothing, have things handed to you by your government. It means you work for what you get. whether it is from the ground up, passed on to you by your parents etc etc. you have the option of success or failure. With a government run health care, there is really no option. at that point if you have a job you are required to pay taxes which will cover the health care. We ALREADY have waaayyy too many programs that use this. Most of them started out with great intentions (welfare, unemployment) but now they are extorted to the fullest extent allowing maximum laziness.
Healthcare is another one of those good intent issues. in the end it would fail just like the others. the people willing to work get to bring home less, live on less, work harder to try and make the american dream, while the bottom feeders live off of our hard work.
that is not America. That is not what we stand for. That is not what we want.
So try to think about what Freedom truly means.
next, home of the Brave. Not only is this the soldiers who fight across the globe to keep our freedoms free (along with other countries) but for those who stand up to the government, take a stand, go to townhall meetings and tell their senators what they think even if CNN will boast them as terrorists, anti-americans etc etc. just because it isn't what mainsteam media and billionaire Michael Bloomberg want, doesn't mean it isn't what the country wants.
Again, healthcare in the USA has been a topic for damn close to 100 years and the democrats keep failing. They fail because Americans know they don't want the government to take over more private sectors.
it is enough with the banks and the automakers. what is next? airlines, railroad, trucking?
If anything the American people are going to look at ways to downsize the government, reduce taxes, keep tabs on where OUR money is going, why nancy pelosi needs a fucking 757 to get back and forth from home in CA and work in DC.
We are tired of seeing our money wasted fruitlessly. the .gov tells us it is only a small drop in the bucket. But when we see thousands of drops falling into a bucket and not getting anything to drink, then we start to wonder where it is all going.
Before you take your oath, make sure you comprehend that, and not only comprehend it, but believe it.
Anyone who wants proof obama is not a citizen, read through this...all of it:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=906019
anyone make it out there to hear Barry's bullshit?
My apologies, if need be-I wasn't personally attacking Jake. I was, myself, expressing my opinions. Nothing more.
Nor was I threatening. I thoroughly believe it is going to get hairier in the future, and those that want no part of it had better leave. That's all. No offense intended to anyone.
Listen jake,
I don't care what you want to show me about the NHS. that is NOT what we have in the United States. that is NOT what we want in the United States.
I don't care about the UK. I want nothing to do with the UK. that is why I don't want to hear any of your blab about how the UK system works whether or not the information i have been told is true or not.
I fly with foreigners all the time, anywhere from the UK, spain, Canada, Russia, Germany, you name it. Any of them I have flown with that had a UHS said our system is much better hands down. First hand, from the mouth of foreigners is where I hear my info, not fucking CNN that you seem to believe.
Thats really great that you want to take your oath and all that. I really don't care as long as you pay your taxes and you don't try to change my country into what you left. If you want back what you left, then go back to it, don't attempt to try to change the things we have here. we built them from the ground up after whipping your guys' ass and we tend to enjoy them and want to keep them the way they are. that is why you will see for the past 80 years the liberal fucktards keep trying to change our health care and they keep failing at it.
So again, I say if you want to LOVE your country that much where you feel like you want to CHANGE MY, I repeat MY country, the United States of America, then get the fuck out.
And take the kenyan with you.
+1,000,000
The point is pretty clear. Here in the USA we should be held up to our own PERSONAL responsibilities to seceded or fail based on the work you put into it.
Take a look at Kalifornia, a complete failure of a State at every level possible. Everything from green energy, immigration, welfare, taxes and every other BS liberal policy there in Kalifornia has brought the economy of that State and every Right of Freedom there to it's knees.
Now they want the States that can run themselves to bail them out. Why?
The health care plan that the socialist fuck Obungo has put together does not say how they are going to pay for this nightmare if IF they should. Which it isn't any of the governments fucking business.
Obungo said he will raise taxes on the rich to pay for it. Really?
If you went out to dinner every weekend with a group of friends and because you make more money than they do you pick up 80% of the tab.
Are you going to keep going out with them every weekend? Fuck no!
Find new friends or just go out by yourself. ----------- The point here is, if they tax the fuck out of the rich. (which by the way is illegal) they will pack up and leave the country. Now how pays for this socialist fucking nightmare? We do... to the tune of about 45% of your pay, and that's going to drive this country into a war or rebellion due to the fact that they already take about 33% from me being a single white male. [Mad]
MEDICARE... for as long as I have been able to work I have had these taxes taken out. I have never used anything that had to do with MEDICARE. Where is that money going? Who's being covered with that bullshit? If they can't run that shit now there is NO WAY they can run a program this big.
FUCK THAT!
MichiganMilitia
08-16-2009, 11:45
MEDICARE...
FUCK THAT!
+1,000,000
[Beer]
I have worked in health care for a couple years and am currently in school for it. Far from an expert but it doesn’t take a whole lot of time to notice the problems we have. When I started working on an ambulance I was concerned because it isn’t the safest job in the world at all and they didn’t provide insurance until we were employed for 90 days. I was fresh out of school with about $80 to my name and in no shape to buy my own coverage. My partner and I were talking about this and he said to me “Don’t worry about it, you have a job, you don’t need health insurance.” At the time I thought he was just blowing smoke but upon working for a few years I knew he was basically spot on.
Arizona has a state paid health care system for the poor. 100% coverage if you have no money and a ton of people have it. We actually had problems with bums calling 911 to get a ride across town. Pick them up, they request going to a hospital across town, enjoy the ride and then walk out the hospitals door. That’s not even the worst of it.
As I am sure gun owners can understand it seemed to me if the laws we have now were actually enforced and those people taking advantage of the system punished, or charged, the system would start savings tons of money. We had a number of patients who were charging the state several million a year due to laziness or boredom.
There are problems, I am sure of it, and we are blowing money all kinds to cover asses from attorneys and hypochondriacs looking to sue a hospital. We are spending a ton on people who aren’t willing to help themselves. I know I am not inclined to spend the night in a hospital due to cost even with insurance but there are plenty of alcoholics who will be sleeping there tonight only to wake up in the morning and go get drunk with no work done to help them in the long term. And then you do have insurance companies out to make a profit, for example, an ambulance ride costs about $1000, give or take, the employees make about $20 for the amount of time with pay and benefits. The ambulance itself is expensive but get plenty of miles on them. The average equipment cost for IVs, blankets, etc. will be less than $100. Give or take, it costs $1000 and only $200 or so is directed to health care and transport. That leaves $800 to pad the pockets of insurance companies or CEOs. I understand profit and capitalism, but 80% is ludicrous (these are rough figures based on experience, not national standards i.e. I didn’t research this, just my memory of it).
long story short, our system takes care of the rich and the poor, but us poor working bastards our left out in the cold no matter how you swing it. My opinion, it needs a change.
sorry that's rambling, but this gets me going.
it is quit apparent that there are problems with the current health care system and changes need to be made, but jumping into a new shitty system isnt the answer just because what we have isnt perfect. fix the current problems instead of trading them for a million new ones.
Found it by chance, but an arfcom member actually did some digging on one of the townhall meetings (where a little girl read a question from a sheet of paper as her mother overwatched) that Obama was prepped and ready for.
And then found what could be the mother on facebook. Then compared video. Etc and it turns out:
The mother donated about 2k to Obama's election in 2008
The mother and daughter were from out of town
The mother has associations with just about every major liberal activist in her region
The mother got a picture taken with "Obama" after the "unscreened townhall meeting"
Ironically, after every question that got asked was "pro socialized healthcare" (55 or so minutes in) Obama was actually joking to find a question against so it "wouldn't look like they are staging it..."
lol. Well, they got caught.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=911911&page=1
(http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=911911&page=1)
Two of the other people questioned (out of less than ten "randomly" selected) just happened to be teachers at the highschool that the event was held at. Coincidence?
Generally the things liberals & democrats blame others for, are the things they actively participate in the most. No company in thieves, and if they do it.. they don't trust anyone else not to do it either.
that is only one of MANY plants that have been FOUND. I am sure almost every single question obama has ever had to answer by someone from the "public" has been a plant or been pre-planned.
I would like to ask that fucking tool a few questions.
They said 36% of people in Mesa county voted for Obama. His approval rating has dropped by 20% since the election. Yet it seemed like alot of people cheering him on. Grand Junction has a very good non-profit health care center and I think thats the reason he went outthere. Hopefully he will realize that there are better options than a goverment solution. Goverment solution is a oxymoron.
theGinsue
08-18-2009, 22:56
here is a report forwarded to me by my Dad from someone else who was on-site for this event:
Just got back from protesting POTUS in Grand Junction -- quick report:
Started 10 am on 8.15 with freedom rally where 3,500-4,000 people showed up. If any counter protesters, they didn't speak up or have signs. Congressman Chaffetz (UT) gave great speech. He took picture & recorded crowd saying NO to Obamacare on his cell phone to post to other members of House.
Then our side had press conference at 11:30 cause media had to turn in all their equipment to be inspected by Secret Service. We had lunch and then took to streets around HIGH SCHOOL where ~1000 of our side lined one side of the main street into the HIGH SCHOOL, 500-600 OFA/SEIU astroturf & green crowd lined the other, but some of our group had to line up on a third of their side because we ran out of room on our side -- reports that they had more was false; we out numbered them about 2:1 at the only place the media bothered to look. Several hundred more of our side went to the town's visitor center so BO would see them demonstrating as he left the airport & lined another route to HIGH SCHOOL in case he came the alternate.
FYI, very few Republicans who applied got ticket into Town Hall & some who did had their tickets rescinded or were turned away at the door. Most BO supporters had been bused in from out-of-town -- they needed all the Dem's still supporting BO in GRAND JUNCTION to fill the gymnasium, even some of them were from out-of-town. They had HIGH SCHOOL Band ready to play at the corner of the street we we're on, but he went in the back way -- they used band as foil to draw the protesters -- so be aware of that tactic for furture.. Once he was inside someone came out and let the band go after they had been waiting there in uniform and formation for about ove hour & a half to play as he entered HIGH SCHOOL -- our side felt very sorry for the kids, the other side just keep jeering.
One point our side stopped chanting as the other side did most of the time and we all shouted the Pledge of Allegiance together -- opp were dumb-founded, just stood there silent many with surprized or puzzled looks, even opp leaders didn't know how to respond, but they didn't join us.
When we learned he came in back way from our members on alt route, our locals discretely spoke to small groups on our side since we had a few infiltrators; we started leaving in groups of 10-20 & re-grouped at the back entrance 3 blocks way, joining the 60-70 there from the start. We lost some of our side with this move mostly seniors because they were worn out from having been at am rally and then out in the heat at the HIGH SCHOOL entrance for another 2 couple of hours. We heard from sheriiff's deputy who is relative of one of our 912ers later that when most of our side was gone, opp loaded up buses or got into cars (minority who drove themselves) and left GRAND JUNCTION.
We continued to wait over another hour for the Town Hall to end and the motorcade to drive right past us. As they were loading vehicles we started chanting "SILENT NO MORE." But everyone was so disgusted with him sneaking in the back, dissing the band & stacking the attendees that by time the lead motorcylces drove past us about 1/3 block away, we were chanting "No You Can't" and when limo came into view the chants disintegrated into loud prolonged booing until the last vehicle was at least a block away. The people who originally lined on the alt. route to airport were still there protesting on his trip back, not sure what they yelled since we could see them, but not hear them -- opp didn't know about these back streets since they were from out-of-town & media didn't follow us so they reported everyone went home by 4:30 pm.
We have video though so I'll post link when uploaded. Considering we only had a week to set up events and get the word out, we're really proud of the turnout and all the intrepid souls who went to multiple events that day.
I want to share story of WWII vet in his 80's who came to the rally from 10-11:30am, went to press conference 11:30-noon, then stood on the first street with us from 3-4:30, walked with his cane & large "Don't Tread On Me flag" the 3 blocks to back entrance, and stayed standing until motorcade disappeared. Some of us offered to help him during the afternoon because he was looking frail and worn out, but he refused help -- he said he could hold the flag and walk using his cane himself. He said he was so upset about what is being done to his country that he fought and almost died for that he was going to do whatever he could and endure whatever he had to help us take our country back.. Those of us who heard him were inspired that he if could make, then we certainly could manage a little more heat, exercise and chanting to finish the day and continue fight over the coming months. All of We the People on our side in Grand Junction yesterday were Proud to Be Americans Exercising Our Rights and Standing Up for Our Country! God Bless America!
The media may not be covering it, but Colorado's Majority (along with some from Utah & NM) is SILENT NO MORE!
Lug Wrench Lu
Link to good set of GRAND JUNCTION pictures from Chuck Broerman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ranWacynFPc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ranWacynFPc)
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