View Full Version : New Guy here with an AK problem
Hey all,
Long time shooting sports enthusiast, first time poster here.
I just assembled an AKM patterned rifle from Palmetto's newer AK receiver and build kits.
The receiver includes a bolt that is headspaced correctly for the barreled receiver and everything (for the most part) went alright with the build.
However the bolt seems to lock up if I cycle the action quickly. If I pull pack the charging handle slow and smooth, it cycles fine. If I jerk it back, the bolt seems to not rotate/unlock.
Without the bolt in the carrier and everything slapped back together, it cycles smooth at any speed.
With the recoil spring removed, I don't seem to have a problem getting the bolt/carrier group to slide back if I assist with some upward pressure (lifting the BCG upwards while pulling back)
What could be causing this issue? I'm thinking it might be either an issue with the actual bolt or how it is interfacing with the rails.
Thanks!
Welcome to the forum![Beer]
Hard to say without looking at it. A little hang up on the bolt is normal, but you say it is actually locking up and not rotating.
Where does it start to lock up at? In the front trunnion or sort of in the middle?
One culprit could be your rails either there not level with the lugs on your trunnion or the ejector is too big causing a jam.
If its getting stuck in the middle your receiver is either pinched in the middle or bowed out causing an issue there.
Again its hard to tell without having hands on. Taking it to BP Tactical to look at it may be your best bet - he's in the industry partners section of the board and a damn good smith.
Thanks for the welcome!
The charging handle slides back about an inch or inch and a half before it locks up. I would image that's where it hits the bolt and starts to rotate it out of battery. If I continually rack the charging handle it will eventually cycle or if I rack it back slow and smooth.
I had assumed it may take some "hands on" time to fully diagnose the issue but I appreciate you weighing in.
No problem :)
Ok from that last description it sounds like its hanging up on the beginning of the rails- where they meet the front trunnion lugs.
Take a straight edge and patch it up on the rails and trunnion where the bolt rides to see if there is an edge where they meet.
A touch of a dremmel to smooth that edge is an easy fix.
Thanks! I'll take a peek tonight and see what I can find.
The dremmel has already been my best friend on a few things (fitting the gas tube yielded the most liberal usage).
No problem :)
Ok from that last description it sounds like its hanging up on the beginning of the rails- where they meet the front trunnion lugs.
Take a straight edge and patch it up on the rails and trunnion where the bolt rides to see if there is an edge where they meet.
A touch of a dremmel to smooth that edge is an easy fix.
After looking it over more comprehensively, I believe there is a machining defect in the bolt or it is not smoothed/shaped correctly where it should be.
The lock up is the bolt failing to rotate coming back out of battery. I'm going to contact Palmetto before I do anything else as the bolt is supposed to be matched to the receiver I purchased.
The BCG only moves far enough back to where it hits the bolt and starts rotating out of battery. There appears to be a hard contact point on the bolt itself.
I say lube it and shoot it and see what happens. Maybe it just needs a little live fire break in.
I say lube it and shoot it and see what happens. Maybe it just needs a little live fire break in.
If they don't offer to repair/replace, this will be my first plan of action.
Great-Kazoo
10-05-2015, 08:12
If they don't offer to repair/replace, this will be my first plan of action.
Usually a mfg will suggest a few hundred rounds before being returned. Lube and shoot at least 2 - 3 mags through it. You have to remember they're selling you a bbl'd receiver, some minor fitting may be required, as with most AK parts kits.
Usually a mfg will suggest a few hundred rounds before being returned. Lube and shoot at least 2 - 3 mags through it. You have to remember they're selling you a bbl'd receiver, some minor fitting may be required, as with most AK parts kits.
Sounds like they are closed due to the flooding, so I might just go straight to the function test.
I was aware that some fitting may be required but I was feeling a little optimistic that the bolt wouldn't need it because it was serialized to the receiver.
68Charger
10-05-2015, 15:50
Just re-read the original post, and I'm wondering if you're just inadvertently putting side forces on the carrier whey you "cycle the action quickly."
I'd shoot it, and it may cycle just fine- the piston will put force on the bolt carrier in a different way than you can with the charging handle.
As long as it's headspaced correctly, then it's not more dangerous than any other AK... if it jams, it just won't cycle- it won't explode.
I've always headspaced my builds, but I will say that on every matching #s (bolt & front trunnion) I've seen, they headspace correctly... have had to change it when #s don't match (which requires re-drilling the barrel pin & using an oversize pin)
jreifsch80
10-05-2015, 16:08
Most people don't realize this but when aks are built the bolts are basically hand fitted, on my old computer I had pictures of an NVA (East German army) armorer filling bolt lugs in a vice while fitting a bolt to an MPi-k (Milled type three East German ak47) the different camming surfaces sometimes need to be tweaked when a new barrel and other parts are built together (I have to do it about 25% of the time with virgin barrel builds) yes it will most likely "break in" but likely, it could also benefit from files and fine sand paper.
PSA told me to try and fire it and if the problem doesn't sort itself out, they'll do the repair.
I was cycling it more and it seems to be loosening up quite a bit. About 8/10, if I dry fire I can cycle the action quickly. Sometimes it still hangs up.
I popped an empty magazine in there and it won't hand cycle no matter what I do.
68Charger
10-07-2015, 14:54
PSA told me to try and fire it and if the problem doesn't sort itself out, they'll do the repair.
I was cycling it more and it seems to be loosening up quite a bit. About 8/10, if I dry fire I can cycle the action quickly. Sometimes it still hangs up.
I popped an empty magazine in there and it won't hand cycle no matter what I do.
ah, the ultra-rare "Bolt Hold Closed" option [Coffee]
That sounds like a problem for sure....
ah, the ultra-rare "Bolt Hold Closed" option [Coffee]
That sounds like a problem for sure....
It sure is a purdy paperweight right now, though. :D
Great-Kazoo
10-07-2015, 17:30
PSA told me to try and fire it and if the problem doesn't sort itself out, they'll do the repair.
I was cycling it more and it seems to be loosening up quite a bit. About 8/10, if I dry fire I can cycle the action quickly. Sometimes it still hangs up.
I popped an empty magazine in there and it won't hand cycle no matter what I do.
You need to shoot it, not hand cycle . Your speed of cycling isn't even close to actual live fire. IMO if you're that unsure of it, take it to a smith pay them for their time, or sell it.
Regarding not cycle with mag in. It could be the mag and not the rifle itself. There's no "spec" AK mags are made to .
You need to shoot it, not hand cycle . Your speed of cycling isn't even close to actual live fire. IMO if you're that unsure of it, take it to a smith pay them for their time, or sell it.
Regarding not cycle with mag in. It could be the mag and not the rifle itself. There's no "spec" AK mags are made to .
Well I've been making progress with hand cycling so I'm sure live rounds will be the key to some break in. Thanks for all the advice everyone.
BPTactical
10-08-2015, 17:20
Contrary to popular belief, Kalishnakov pattern platforms actually enjoy a little lubrication.
On your initial firings make sure that the lug on the bolt (the triangular looking one) that engages the bolt carrier has a bit of grease, that surface will burnish in a bit. Without seeing it I would guess you have a rough spot on either the bolt lug or the recess in the carrier.
Rarely are the bolt lugs that engage the trunnion the issue.
A dab of grease on the rails, the bolt stem and the bottom of the carrier where it rides over the hammer will keep things smooth while you run it in.
Contrary to popular belief, Kalishnakov pattern platforms actually enjoy a little lubrication.
On your initial firings make sure that the lug on the bolt (the triangular looking one) that engages the bolt carrier has a bit of grease, that surface will burnish in a bit. Without seeing it I would guess you have a rough spot on either the bolt lug or the recess in the carrier.
Rarely are the bolt lugs that engage the trunnion the issue.
A dab of grease on the rails, the bolt stem and the bottom of the carrier where it rides over the hammer will keep things smooth while you run it in.
Thanks! I'll be sure to get some strategically placed greased on there before sending any down range.
jreifsch80
10-09-2015, 09:06
Yes burt is right and remember grease not oil
Contrary to popular belief, Kalishnakov pattern platforms actually enjoy a little lubrication.
Blasphemy!
68Charger
10-09-2015, 12:25
Contrary to popular belief, Kalishnakov pattern platforms actually enjoy a little lubrication.
"enjoy" is a subjective term... with an AK, "lubrication" can be, too... Yak fat, dirt, gunpowder residue, etc... if it's softer than steel, it's lube [ROFL2]
All kidding aside- while they can run without lubrication, they will last longer and run smoother with good grease (not that they had good grease in the field back then)
I would certainly caution against taking any abrasives to the trunnion or bolt lugs (which will change the headspace)
Lmao Yak fat. I need some of that.
Blood works too ;)
"enjoy" is a subjective term... with an AK, "lubrication" can be, too... Yak fat, dirt, gunpowder residue, etc... if it's softer than steel, it's lube [ROFL2]
All kidding aside- while they can run without lubrication, they will last longer and run smoother with good grease (not that they had good grease in the field back then)
I would certainly caution against taking any abrasives to the trunnion or bolt lugs (which will change the headspace)
Great-Kazoo
10-09-2015, 17:29
Blasphemy!
It's a gun, not a date. Calm down Francis ;)
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